That’s definitely true as well, Maia, and I think that failure to end is
affected by the same factors: muddy musical phrases don’t particularly
encourage or mark an end to the swing, the (contra) cultural focus on
swings as the “most important” part of the choreography encourages holding
them, and in the absence of calls we are relying on the dancers to know
when and how to end the swing—which requires stopping something that is
fun, easy, and which currently has both physical and mental momentum. That
is technically difficult, and especially for beginners; more experienced
dancers have learned how to compensate and what we can get away with.
Neal Schlein
Librarian, MSLIS
On Wed, Sep 25, 2024 at 8:57 AM Maia McCormick <maia.mcc(a)gmail.com> wrote:
That’s an interesting take—I usually see people
swinging for too LONG, and
specifically see swings running over as one of the main culprits of dance
timing muddiness. Probably a combination of: swinging is fun, it’s a
variable number of rotations (ie no clear end point), and it may take
beginners a sec to get the hand/foot position right. So when dance timing
is slipping, my go-to is to start more clearly prompting the first move
after the swing, esp. the partner swing.
For whatever that’s worth!
Cheers,
Maia (Brooklyn, NY)
--
Maia McCormick (she/her)
917.279.8194
On Wed, Sep 25, 2024 at 4:40 PM Neal Schlein <nschlein(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Robert—
> I’m thinking there are three things you may be working to counteract:
>
> 1. Rushing to the swing/the “easy bits” of the dance. If the dancers
> don’t perceive each part of the sequence as equally important or
> interesting, they will often attempt to shorten the distance to the next
> part; flowing segments are the natural casualty. This is also trained
> behavior, learned from exposure to music and tight choreography that
> rewards or forces “clipped” endings for flowing figures like heys or rushed
> contra corners. I don’t know how to alter this in a simple, clean way
> except by repeatedly not programming such choreography.
>
> 2. Driving or low-phrased music. This is regional, and in my opinion the
> dance tunes played in different places in our country are getting smooshed
> stylistically, but there are differences. When I lived in Illinois, for
> example, the music tended toward a hard driven beat with less intra- and
> sometimes extra-phrase distinction. I personally felt it was infinitely
> better for squares because it made contras became mushy, especially on long
> and flowing parts (which is choreography I tend to appreciate…and then
> people would rush to the swings). That outcome didn’t seem to bother anyone
> other than me, though.
>
> 3. Dropping out/style of calling. When we start to drop out, it gives
> more latitude to the dancers to make their own decisions about timing—which
> are then dictated by the band (music phrasing), their attitude toward the
> choreography (rush to the good parts), and their skill (easier to
> execute=faster potential execution). You can try to keep calling longer
> and provide more direction….which might also result in a riot, depending on
> the dancers. (Here in Colorado I have the reverse: a group that threatens
> homicide if I ever leave out a single call.)
>
> Neal Schlein
> Librarian, MSLIS
> Colorado
>
> On Wed, Sep 25, 2024 at 2:44 AM Maia McCormick via Contra Callers <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Robert, are you looking for tips beyond the basic “clear, well-phrased,
>> LONG/well-in-advance calls”? That’s probably the biggest thing, in my
>> mind—a nice long (3-4 beat) call in advance of the move that often lags, to
>> give dancers some heads up. (And of course, identifying ahead of time what
>> parts of the dance that are likely to get smeary.)
>>
>> You might be able to preempt some of the timing issues in teaching. Eg
>> “take JUST FOUR STEPS down the hall, it’s shorter than you think” etc, but
>> honestly that kind of thing flies right out of people’s heads when the
>> music starts.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Maia in Brooklyn
>>
>>
>> --
>> Maia McCormick (she/her)
>> 917.279.8194
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 25, 2024 at 2:51 AM Luke Donforth via Contra Callers <
>> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for giving the new dance a spin! I haven't even tried it with
>>> people yet :-)
>>>
>>> Robert, I'm reminded of George Wilson's beginner lesson where he
talks
>>> explicitly about the connection between the music and the dancing, and
>>> makes the timing explicit:
>>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14nxFdcaKWA
>>>
>>> Thanks again all,
>>> Luke
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 24, 2024 at 3:25 PM Robert Matson via Contra Callers <
>>> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Like Harris recently did, we plan to try Star Trek Phaser for our
>>>> beginner-heavy college contra next week. Thanks for writing and posting
>>>> it, Luke.
>>>>
>>>> We often find that our dancers get off-phrase, especially with flowy
>>>> dances, like this one. Is that what causes the challenge with the oval
in
>>>> this dance?
>>>>
>>>> We have the benefit of choosing our music program at the same time as
>>>> our dance program. So, our Plan A for flowy dances is to choose a tune
set
>>>> with clear differentiation between the 8-bar phrases and some sort of
>>>> punctuation at the start or end of each phrase. (Maybe a tune set
>>>> like this one.
>>>> <https://youtu.be/ADQq_nqqHik?si=UX83w43tUtd8pw6x&t=151>)
>>>>
>>>> From the perspective of callers, what would be a few tips that help
>>>> ensure flowy dances don't get off-phrase or would help in a case
like
>>>> Harris'?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Rob
>>>>
>>>> - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>>>
>>>> Robert Matson
>>>> Cell: (917) 626-2675
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Sep 24, 2024 at 12:51 AM Harris Lapiroff via Contra Callers <
>>>> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I called Star Trek Phraser at a beginner-heavy college dance last
>>>>> weekend and it worked quite well! The only thing I noticed was that I
had
>>>>> to keep jumping in to keep the oval on time (dancers kept trying to
shift
>>>>> it to A2) and even still it got pretty messy. But it's a nice
whole-set
>>>>> moment that I think is worth it. (And for attentive beginners I think
it
>>>>> also reveals something to them about the structure of the dance.) I
was
>>>>> surprised and pleased by how well beginners were able to handle the
>>>>> star-to-star transition, quick though it is!
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for that one, Luke!
>>>>>
>>>>> Harris Lapiroff
>>>>>
>>>>> Dance Caller and Organizer
>>>>> Boston Intergenerational Dance Advocates Board (Cambridge MA)
>>>>> Pinewoods Camp, Inc Board (Plymouth MA)
>>>>>
https://chromamine.com/contra/
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Sep 9, 2024, at 8:08 PM, Luke Donforth via Contra Callers
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks all.
>>>>>
>>>>> I continue to turn this one over in my head, and I think I've got
a
>>>>> new one (borrowing heavily from Bob Isaac's *To Turn a Phrase*
and
>>>>> the star-to-star transition of Mick Richardson's *Star Trek*)
>>>>>
>>>>> Star Trek Phraser
>>>>> by Luke Donforth
>>>>> Contra/Becket-CCW
>>>>>
>>>>> A1 -----------
>>>>> (8) Left hand Star
>>>>> (8) Whole set oval right
>>>>> A2 -----------
>>>>> (8) whole set oval Left
>>>>> (8) Groups of 4 Circle Left 1X
>>>>> B1 -----------
>>>>> (8) Partner Do-si-do
>>>>> (8) Partner swing
>>>>> B2 -----------
>>>>> (8) Long lines, forward and back
>>>>> (8) Left hand Star 1x, walk on to next star
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Sep 8, 2024 at 7:55 PM <sjapartments(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
https://aptsg.org/Dance/dances.html#Balter
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Sep 8, 2024 at 11:50 AM Luke Donforth via Contra Callers
<
>>>>> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>
>>>>> Oftentimes at One Night Gigs, I'll do a mix of circle and
longways
>>>>> set dances. With scatter mixers and specialty dances, I can fill an
>>>>> evening. But sometimes I get a group that "wants contras"
or is looking to
>>>>> grow their familiarity with the dance form.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think Becket dances without lark/robin distinctions and no
neighbor
>>>>> swing are AN easy option into "hands-four" contras. There
are other ways
>>>>> in, but I'm looking for more Beckets that match that description.
For a
>>>>> while I've had "Pluck It" in my box as a friendly
option:
>>>>>
>>>>> Pluck It
>>>>> Contra/Becket-CW
>>>>>
>>>>> A1 -----------
>>>>> (8) Circle Left
>>>>> (8) Circle Right
>>>>> A2 -----------
>>>>> (8) Left hand Star
>>>>> (8) Right hand Star
>>>>> B1 -----------
>>>>> (8) Partner Do-si-do
>>>>> (8) Partner swing
>>>>> B2 -----------
>>>>> (8) Neighbor Do-si-do across set
>>>>> (8) Long lines, yearn left
>>>>>
>>>>> This is, in my opinion, pretty close to the traditional mixer
Scatter
>>>>> Shot but done as a keeper in Becket. (It does have a DSD across the
set,
>>>>> which in a recent thread was listed as a no-no for some callers.
While I
>>>>> wouldn't use that move at a dance weekend, for One Night gigs I
think it's
>>>>> accessible and acceptable). You don't have to teach ballroom
swing, and if
>>>>> folks want to elbow swing and swap roles with their partner it
doesn't
>>>>> really impact the dance (this is a small advantage of Becket over
improper
>>>>> for this type of dance; different position on the side is less
disorienting
>>>>> than different side of the set).
>>>>>
>>>>> What other Becket dances do folks have that don't rely on roles?
No
>>>>> larks allemande or robins chain, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the drive home from my gig last night I came up with this one
>>>>> (which may already exist), written for Naomi who organizes the
community
>>>>> dance I was at:
>>>>>
>>>>> A Pillar of Weathersfield
>>>>> Contra/Becket-CW
>>>>>
>>>>> A1 -----------
>>>>> (8) Balance the ring and spin to the right (petronella)
>>>>> (8) Balance the ring and spin to the right (petronella)
>>>>> A2 -----------
>>>>> (16) Partner balance and swing, end facing down the hall
>>>>> B1 -----------
>>>>> (8) Down the hall, four in line (turn as couples)
>>>>> (8) Return and face across
>>>>> B2 -----------
>>>>> (8) Long lines, forward and back
>>>>> (8) Promenade across the Set, turn as a couple and progress
>>>>> (Go between the ones you danced with, passing by left shoulder, and
>>>>> the new couple on your right, turn to take hands with new couple)
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd be curious what else folks have that they use for
entry-level
>>>>> contras when you don't have a critical mass of experience for
improper
>>>>> dances with neighbor swings.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>> Luke Donforth
>>>>> Burlington, VT
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>>>>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Luke Donforth
>>>>> Luke.Donforth(a)gmail.com <Luke.Donev(a)gmail.com>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>>>>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>>>>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>>>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Luke Donforth
>>> Luke.Donforth(a)gmail.com <Luke.Donev(a)gmail.com>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>
>