Thanks, All.

@Maia: thanks for asking me to be precise in my question.  I see I asked two general questions which, while a mistake, was a happy mistake in that it led to hearing interesting thoughts.

However, I was hoping to benefit from Harris' experience, or the experience of others who have encountered the same challenge in a beginner-heavy dance.

My clumsy question was within the context of the original post:

Harris:
"I called Star Trek Phraser at a beginner-heavy college dance last weekend and it worked quite well! The only thing I noticed was that I had to keep jumping in to keep the oval on time (dancers kept trying to shift it to A2) and even still it got pretty messy."

Me:
"Like Harris recently did, we plan to try Star Trek Phaser for our beginner-heavy college contra next week.  Thanks for writing and posting it, Luke.
"We often find that our dancers get off-phrase, especially with flowy dances, like this one.  Is that what causes the challenge with the oval in this dance?"

I wish I had asked, using Maia's trademark -- "Hive-mind" or Harris -- how would you foreshorten the challenge Harris witnessed in Star Trek Phaser, so, next week, our college group can have at least as much fun as Harris's college group did?

(@Luke, I agree with you: that video of George Marshall giving a beginner lesson is a pleasure to study.)

Rob

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Robert Matson
Innovation Media Corp.
The Innovation Works, Inc.
Cell: (917) 626-2675



On Wed, Sep 25, 2024 at 9:57 AM Maia McCormick via Contra Callers <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
That’s an interesting take—I usually see people swinging for too LONG, and specifically see swings running over as one of the main culprits of dance timing muddiness. Probably a combination of: swinging is fun, it’s a variable number of rotations (ie no clear end point), and it may take beginners a sec to get the hand/foot position right. So when dance timing is slipping, my go-to is to start more clearly prompting the first move after the swing, esp. the partner swing. 

For whatever that’s worth!

Cheers,
Maia (Brooklyn, NY)

--
Maia McCormick (she/her)
917.279.8194


On Wed, Sep 25, 2024 at 4:40 PM Neal Schlein <nschlein@gmail.com> wrote:
Robert—
I’m thinking there are three things you may be working to counteract:

1. Rushing to the swing/the “easy bits” of the dance.  If the dancers don’t perceive each part of the sequence as equally important or interesting, they will often attempt to shorten the distance to the next part; flowing segments are the natural casualty. This is also trained behavior, learned from exposure to music and tight choreography that rewards or forces “clipped” endings for flowing figures like heys or rushed contra corners. I don’t know how to alter this in a simple, clean way except by repeatedly not programming such choreography.

2. Driving or low-phrased music.  This is regional, and in my opinion the dance tunes played in different places in our country are getting smooshed stylistically, but there are differences.  When I lived in Illinois, for example, the music tended toward a hard driven beat with less intra- and sometimes extra-phrase distinction. I personally felt it was infinitely better for squares because it made contras became mushy, especially on long and flowing parts (which is choreography I tend to appreciate…and then people would rush to the swings). That outcome didn’t seem to bother anyone other than me, though. 

3. Dropping out/style of calling.  When we start to drop out, it gives more latitude to the dancers to make their own decisions about timing—which are then dictated by the band (music phrasing), their attitude toward the choreography (rush to the good parts), and their skill (easier to execute=faster potential execution).  You can try to keep calling longer and provide more direction….which might also result in a riot, depending on the dancers. (Here in Colorado I have the reverse: a group that threatens homicide if I ever leave out a single call.)

Neal Schlein
Librarian, MSLIS
Colorado

On Wed, Sep 25, 2024 at 2:44 AM Maia McCormick via Contra Callers <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Robert, are you looking for tips beyond the basic “clear, well-phrased, LONG/well-in-advance calls”? That’s probably the biggest thing, in my mind—a nice long (3-4 beat) call in advance of the move that often lags, to give dancers some heads up. (And of course, identifying ahead of time what parts of the dance that are likely to get smeary.)

You might be able to preempt some of the timing issues in teaching. Eg “take JUST FOUR STEPS down the hall, it’s shorter than you think” etc, but honestly that kind of thing flies right out of people’s heads when the music starts. 

Cheers,
Maia in Brooklyn


--
Maia McCormick (she/her)
917.279.8194


On Wed, Sep 25, 2024 at 2:51 AM Luke Donforth via Contra Callers <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Thanks for giving the new dance a spin! I haven't even tried it with people yet :-)

Robert, I'm reminded of George Wilson's beginner lesson where he talks explicitly about the connection between the music and the dancing, and makes the timing explicit:

Thanks again all,
Luke

On Tue, Sep 24, 2024 at 3:25 PM Robert Matson via Contra Callers <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Like Harris recently did, we plan to try Star Trek Phaser for our beginner-heavy college contra next week.  Thanks for writing and posting it, Luke.

We often find that our dancers get off-phrase, especially with flowy dances, like this one.  Is that what causes the challenge with the oval in this dance?

We have the benefit of choosing our music program at the same time as our dance program.  So, our Plan A for flowy dances is to choose a tune set with clear differentiation between the 8-bar phrases and some sort of punctuation at the start or end of each phrase.  (Maybe a tune set like this one.)

From the perspective of callers, what would be a few tips that help ensure flowy dances don't get off-phrase or would help in a case like Harris'?

Thanks,
Rob

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Robert Matson
Cell: (917) 626-2675



On Tue, Sep 24, 2024 at 12:51 AM Harris Lapiroff via Contra Callers <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I called Star Trek Phraser at a beginner-heavy college dance last weekend and it worked quite well! The only thing I noticed was that I had to keep jumping in to keep the oval on time (dancers kept trying to shift it to A2) and even still it got pretty messy. But it's a nice whole-set moment that I think is worth it. (And for attentive beginners I think it also reveals something to them about the structure of the dance.) I was surprised and pleased by how well beginners were able to handle the star-to-star transition, quick though it is!

Thanks for that one, Luke!

Harris Lapiroff

Dance Caller and Organizer
Boston Intergenerational Dance Advocates Board (Cambridge MA)
Pinewoods Camp, Inc Board (Plymouth MA)

On Mon, Sep 9, 2024, at 8:08 PM, Luke Donforth via Contra Callers wrote:
Thanks all. 

I continue to turn this one over in my head, and I think I've got a new one (borrowing heavily from Bob Isaac's To Turn a Phrase and the star-to-star transition of Mick Richardson's Star Trek)

Star Trek Phraser
by Luke Donforth
Contra/Becket-CCW

A1 -----------
(8) Left hand Star
(8) Whole set oval right
A2 -----------
(8) whole set oval Left
(8) Groups of 4 Circle Left 1X
B1 -----------
(8) Partner Do-si-do
(8) Partner swing
B2 -----------
(8) Long lines, forward and back
(8) Left hand Star 1x, walk on to next star

On Sun, Sep 8, 2024 at 7:55 PM <sjapartments@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sun, Sep 8, 2024 at 11:50 AM Luke Donforth via Contra Callers <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Hello all, 

Oftentimes at One Night Gigs, I'll do a mix of circle and longways set dances. With scatter mixers and specialty dances, I can fill an evening. But sometimes I get a group that "wants contras" or is looking to grow their familiarity with the dance form. 

I think Becket dances without lark/robin distinctions and no neighbor swing are AN easy option into "hands-four" contras. There are other ways in, but I'm looking for more Beckets that match that description. For a while I've had "Pluck It" in my box as a friendly option:

Pluck It
Contra/Becket-CW

A1 -----------
(8) Circle Left
(8) Circle Right
A2 -----------
(8) Left hand Star
(8) Right hand Star
B1 -----------
(8) Partner Do-si-do
(8) Partner swing
B2 -----------
(8) Neighbor Do-si-do across set
(8) Long lines, yearn left 

This is, in my opinion, pretty close to the traditional mixer Scatter Shot but done as a keeper in Becket. (It does have a DSD across the set, which in a recent thread was listed as a no-no for some callers. While I wouldn't use that move at a dance weekend, for One Night gigs I think it's accessible and acceptable). You don't have to teach ballroom swing, and if folks want to elbow swing and swap roles with their partner it doesn't really impact the dance (this is a small advantage of Becket over improper for this type of dance; different position on the side is less disorienting than different side of the set). 

What other Becket dances do folks have that don't rely on roles? No larks allemande or robins chain, etc.

On the drive home from my gig last night I came up with this one (which may already exist), written for Naomi who organizes the community dance I was at:

A Pillar of Weathersfield
Contra/Becket-CW

A1 -----------
(8) Balance the ring and spin to the right (petronella)
(8) Balance the ring and spin to the right (petronella)
A2 -----------
(16) Partner balance and swing, end facing down the hall
B1 -----------
(8) Down the hall, four in line (turn as couples)
(8) Return and face across
B2 -----------
(8) Long lines, forward and back
(8) Promenade across the Set, turn as a couple and progress
(Go between the ones you danced with, passing by left shoulder, and the new couple on your right, turn to take hands with new couple)

I'd be curious what else folks have that they use for entry-level contras when you don't have a critical mass of experience for improper dances with neighbor swings.

Thanks!
Luke Donforth
Burlington, VT
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