Hi all,
Thanks for all the ideas. I had forgotten about the Old
Measures. I am working on a zesty Circle Mixer version of the Black Alman.
The 1920s were not good for new dances, but at least three
books were published: Sharp V6, Country Dances New Series V1 and the Ashover
Dances. I guess I could use some of those. There were some new dances, for
example KS's Two Couple dance "Two's Company" is referred to in E.F.D.S New,
but I have been unable to discover the choreography.
Someone suggested "Good Morning" (1926) which I was already
trying to acquire. I found it at
https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/006522644https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.$b281688
<https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.$b281688&view=1up&seq=9>
&view=1up&seq=9
It is interesting that, in "Good Morning", Henry Ford/Benjamin
Lovett calls all the square dances "quadrilles", and provides the
ballroom-hold, buzz-step swing as an alternative to the Two-Hand Turn for
"Turn Partners".
Thanks.
Happy dancing,
John
John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com
<mailto:john@modernjive.com> 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 574
http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html for Live Music Ceilidhs
http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive DVDs
I can confirm this from personal experience. I lived in Switzerland for about 10 years, and besides calling there, was active in both the “international” dance community and the Swiss dance community.
The latter group puts on a huge New Years Eve dance in Zurich every year. At midnight, they dance the ”Francaise” and for several weeks beforehand, all the groups practice the Francaise in preparation.
When I was taught the Francaise, I was astonished that a dance with a French-sounding name consisted mostly of figures that are recognizable from square/ contra. I later learned that the dance form was brought back from England by the French and called “Contredanse anglaise”. The rest or Europe apparently thought it came from France and called it “Contredanse Francaise” instead.
These dances were all the rage in the 19th century, and the music we danced to in Switzerland was Die Fledermaus Quadrille, by Strauss. (It is breathtaking, by the way, to see several hundred dancers moving in unison to that music!)
It is as Jim describes, a long line arranged as for a Becket formation, but without progression. I wondered about the term “Quadrille” and decided it could only refer to the 4 people who make up what we would call the minor set.
Someone mentioned the styling of a courtesy turn. Describing it as a one-handed turn is technically correct but inadequate. In fact, it is basically the same as an American courtesy turn, but without the gentleman placing his arm around the lady’s waist. The danders are side by side, with her hand (palm down) in his hand (palm up) and with no other contact. It takes a little dancerly attention to stay in the proper relative position as the turn takes place... a little like the “unassisted” version of a right and left through in New England.
Interestingly, the term for a right and left through in the Francaise is a Chaine Anglaise, an “English Chain.”
Sent from my iPad
> On Feb 24, 2020, at 3:07 PM, jim saxe via Contra Callers <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> In a message sent on Feb. 21, I described "quadrilles" danced in Vienna with dancers in formations that looked like Becket contra lines but that actually consisted of two-couple sets dancing independently (except for occasional opportunities for eye contact when advancing and retiring on a diagonal), and I wrote:
>
>> ... I'd guess that the change to a Becket-like formation was intended to reduce the amount of inactivity, to make more efficient use of floor space, or both. It might also reduce the total duration of the figures. I have no idea whether the change in formation is a recent innovation or whether it goes back many decades, perhaps even into the 19th century.
>
> I now see that the "History" section of the Wikipedia article on "Quadrille" begins as follows:
>
> The term quadrille originated in 17th-century military parades
> in which four mounted horsemen executed square formations. The
> word probably derived from the Italian quadriglia (diminutive
> of quadra, hence a small square).
>
> The dance was introduced in France around 1760: originally it
> was a form of cotillion in which only two couples were used, but
> two more couples were eventually added to form the sides of a
> square. ...
>
> If the opening sentences of that second paragraph are accurate, then the two-couple version of the quadrille (in which the two-couple sets might tend to line up alongside each other, giving the appearance of what we'd now call a Becket contra line) dates back to the 18th century and is actually older than the version in a four-couple square.
>
> Unfortunately, the article doesn't offer sufficient specific citations or quotations of sources supporting specific claims for me judge how reliable it is.
>
> --Jim
> _______________________________________________
> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To me, the word "quadrille" would usually suggest either Tony's definition 1 or his definition 3.
Reading Tony's definition 4 reminds me that I have occasionally noticed the word "quadrille" in titles of tunes in 6/8 meter. Looking in the book _Advanced Square Dance Figures of the West and Southwest_ by Lee Owens and Viola Ruth (1950), I notice that the tunes therein include "Blackberry Quadrille," "Blacksmith's Quadrille," "Bony Smith's Quadrille," and "Ruth's Quadrille," all in 6/8. Also included, however, is a tune titled "Canyon Quadrille," which is in 2/4 (but with a lot of dotted notes).
I was unaware of the usage given in Tony's definition 2: "... a set of (usually three) squares done with the same partner." Having read it, I can see how the term formerly used for those 19th-century dances in five or six figures (with the same partner, but with pauses in the the music between figures) could have come to be used for sets of three squares with the same partner as done in some areas in the mid 20th century.
While looking around on Youtube a few years ago, I came across some videos of "quadrille" dances in Vienna with couples arranged not in square sets but in what resemble Becket contra lines. Here's an example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IQ1-nRxr64
Note that there is no progression. Each couple dances pretty much exclusively with the couple across from them, the only interaction with dancers from an adjacent foursome being an occasional acknowledgment as couples dance forward and back on a diagonal. The figures are of the sort that might have been danced alternately by head and side couples in a 19th-century quadrille in square formation. I'd guess that the change to a Becket-like formation was intended to reduce the amount of inactivity, to make more efficient use of floor space, or both. It might also reduce the total duration of the figures. I have no idea whether the change in formation is a recent innovation or whether it goes back many decades, perhaps even into the 19th century.
While looking for a video of a quadrille in Vienna to cite in this message, I also discovered some videos of "quadrilles" as danced in Jamaica, some in square formation and some not. I won't cite any video in particular; readers who care cane easily find examples for themselves. I don't think I can offer any better speculation than anyone else about how these dances might have evolved into what they are now from whatever sort of "quadrille" or other dance might have preceded them.
Lest digressions obscure my main point, I'll repeat that the notions of "quadrille" most prominent in my mind are Tony's definitions 1 and 3.
--Jim
> On Feb 21, 2020, at 9:55 AM, Tony Parkes via Contra Callers <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> Here’s my take on it, from the glossary of my forthcoming book _Square Dance Calling: An Old Art for a New Century_:
>
> Quadrille (1) A formal square dance in five or six figures, introduced in the early 19th century; the original figures were selected from the cotillion (definition 1), although additional figures were written later. (2) In the Northeast, a term used until the mid-20th century for a set of (usually three) squares done with the same partner. (3) A term used by modern square dance callers for a square phrased and prompted in New England style. (4) In some areas, a fiddle tune in 6/8 meter.
<snip>
In Tony Parkes’s third sense, of a square dance prompted to a 64-count tune, in the New England style, many singing-call squares could be thought of as quadrilles. Pretty much any sequence devised for a 64-count singing call can be prompted and danced in this fashion, without singing. Indeed older singing calls are a rich source of highly-danceable sequences for traditional-style squares, useable by those of us who don’t sing or don’t have an appropriate band handy for singing calls.
Richard
``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
Richard Hopkins
Middlebury, VT
850-544-7614
hopkinsrs(a)comcast.net
Wonderful post, with one quibble: you left out the best sentence!
"The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.”
;)
On 2/24/20, John Sweeney via Contra Callers
<contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> For those who have asked about the style of the early quadrilles, please
> see
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSD37PF2_Dw
>
> Thomas Wilson documented the standard stepping for country dances in the
> early 19th century as being three chassées, jeté, assemblé. You can see
> that being performed, complete with pointy toes, in this video. In modern
> terminology: three polka steps and a jump. Note: this is how ALL country
> dances were done then! Don't believe what you see in Jane Austen movies!
>
> Note also the arm shape for a hand turn. The smooth downward curve was
> believed to look best, rather than the elbow-down-hand-up W shape that we
> use now.
>
> Each sequence is only danced once by each pair of couples. But there are
> many sequences. Very different from a modern dance with multiple
> repetitions of one sequence.
>
> For lots more detail see the papers listed at
> https://www.regencydances.org/paper000.php
>
> People have referenced quadrilles as being sometimes done in a sort of
> Becket formation, by pairs of couples. As it says at
> https://www.regencydances.org/paper011.php, "Most early Quadrilles were not
> the 8 person Sets that arose in the 1810s (most notable amongst which was
> the First Set), but rather a variation of the Cotillion usually arranged
> for
> just four dancers."
>
> = = = = = = = =
>
> Colin referenced La Russe as having derived from a quadrille; indeed when
> the EFDSS published it in 1948 it was titled "La Russe Quadrille":
> http://contrafusion.co.uk/Dances/EFDS4806-LaRusse.html
>
> = = = = = = = =
>
> I think that we have to accept the fact that "Quadrille" has joined the
> ranks of words such as Allemande, Swing and Dosido which all have multiple
> different meanings depending on the country, century and dance genre.
>
> 'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it
> means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'
>
> 'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many
> different things.'
> ...
> 'When I make a word do a lot of work like that,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'I
> always pay it extra.'
> https://sabian.org/looking_glass6.php
>
> Happy dancing,
> John
>
> John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802
> 940 574
> http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html for Live Music Ceilidhs
>
> http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
> http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive DVDs
>
> _______________________________________________
> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
For those who have asked about the style of the early quadrilles, please see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSD37PF2_Dw
Thomas Wilson documented the standard stepping for country dances in the
early 19th century as being three chassées, jeté, assemblé. You can see
that being performed, complete with pointy toes, in this video. In modern
terminology: three polka steps and a jump. Note: this is how ALL country
dances were done then! Don't believe what you see in Jane Austen movies!
Note also the arm shape for a hand turn. The smooth downward curve was
believed to look best, rather than the elbow-down-hand-up W shape that we
use now.
Each sequence is only danced once by each pair of couples. But there are
many sequences. Very different from a modern dance with multiple
repetitions of one sequence.
For lots more detail see the papers listed at
https://www.regencydances.org/paper000.php
People have referenced quadrilles as being sometimes done in a sort of
Becket formation, by pairs of couples. As it says at
https://www.regencydances.org/paper011.php, "Most early Quadrilles were not
the 8 person Sets that arose in the 1810s (most notable amongst which was
the First Set), but rather a variation of the Cotillion usually arranged for
just four dancers."
= = = = = = = =
Colin referenced La Russe as having derived from a quadrille; indeed when
the EFDSS published it in 1948 it was titled "La Russe Quadrille":
http://contrafusion.co.uk/Dances/EFDS4806-LaRusse.html
= = = = = = = =
I think that we have to accept the fact that "Quadrille" has joined the
ranks of words such as Allemande, Swing and Dosido which all have multiple
different meanings depending on the country, century and dance genre.
'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it
means just what I choose it to mean neither more nor less.'
'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many
different things.'
...
'When I make a word do a lot of work like that,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'I
always pay it extra.'
https://sabian.org/looking_glass6.php
Happy dancing,
John
John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802
940 574
http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html for Live Music Ceilidhs
http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive DVDs
Jacob Bloom,
Why spare us the details? This seems just the sort of forum for laying out
what delineated quadrilles. I for one would be interested in knowing the
distinct structural differences, even if in practice I may blur them.
Jerome
Jerome Grisanti
660-528-0858
http://www.jeromegrisanti.com
"Whatever you do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius and power
and magic in it." --Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 1:03 PM Jacob or Nancy Bloom via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> As someone who leads a lot of historical dance, especially eighteenth
> century, I think of "quadrille" as referring specifically to the dance
> format in square formation that replaced eighteenth century cotillions.
> There are distinct structural differences between cotillions, quadrilles,
> and most modern square dances. I'll spare you the details, at least for
> now. Although there are plenty of modern square dances with the word
> "quadrille" in the name, I don't think of them as quadrilles.
>
> Jacob Bloom
> Arlington, Massachusetts
>
>
> jandnbloom(a)gmail.com
> http://jacobbloom.net/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
Meanings of words change. I would guess in a literal sense, even today's
MWSD is quadrille dancing, since it is four couples drilling dance moves.
"The word *quarantine* comes from a seventeenth-century Venetian
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venetian_language> variant of the Italian
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_language> *quaranta giorni*, meaning
forty days, the period that all ships were required to be isolated before
passengers and crew could go ashore during the Black Death
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Death> plague epidemic
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemic>." -Wikipedia. Today's meaning
is definitely related to the origin, but has changed significantly in time.
Rich
On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 6:48 PM jim saxe via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> John Sweeney raises an interesting point about the differences in styling
> between 19th century quadrilles (Tony Parkes's definition 1) and the
> phrased New England squares of today (Tony's definition 3), whether the
> latter have the word "Quadrille" in their titles or not.
>
> Where today's dancers would to courtesy turns, or replace them with twirls
> and other embellishments, 19th-century dance manuals prescribe a simple
> turn by the left hand. The word "swing" was used to describe a two-hand
> turn, or sometimes other figures such as a right-hand or left-hand turn or
> a circle, but certainly not something done in the closed ballroom-like
> position we generally use for swings today. Also, if I understand
> correctly, where we generally use a simple walking step for most square
> dance figures other than "balance" and "swing", dancers in the early 19th
> century were taught more elaborate footwork. (My impression is that later
> in 19th century, the fancy footwork became less common, though some dancing
> masters may have objected to that trend. However, I haven't looked
> carefully through available books of the period to check the trends in what
> people were writing, much less do I know how well what appeared in the
> books of any decade corresponded to what dancers were actually doing.)
>
> John lists a number of dances with "Quadrille" in their titles and writes
> of them:
>
> > But they are all just square dances. None of them bear any
> > resemblance to an actual Quadrille. A few like Western Quadrille are
> based
> > on one figure of an actual Quadrille, but with modern styling.
> >
> > It’s a nice word and sounds good in a dance title. :-)
>
> Those remarks apply at least as much to my own "Wardwell Quadrille" series
> as to any of the other dances on John's list. I used the word "Quadrille"
> in the titles simply because I thought it sounded good in combination with
> "Wardwell" ("Wardwell Hall" being the former name of the church social hall
> used by the BACDS San Francisco contra dance series). I didn't at all
> imagine the dances being done in an especially elegaaahnt style, and my
> preferred music would be old-time reels, not the 6/8 tunes of Tony's
> definition 4 of "quadrille" nor the sort of orchestral music used for those
> Viennese "quadrilles" that I referenced in an earlier message.
>
> --Jim
>
> On Feb 23, 2020, at 3:24 AM, John Sweeney via Contra Callers <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> >
> > Calling something a Quadrille doesn't necessarily make it a Quadrille.
> >
> > To me the King's Quadrille is just a modern American square dance.
> >
> > It doesn't have the styling or the moves or the length/complexity of a
> > Quadrille (e.g. I don't believe that courtesy turns existed in the period
> > when Quadrilles were danced).
> >
> > The only commonality is that it is done by four couples in a Square.
> >
> > On checking, I find that I have the following in my deck:
> > Festival Quadrille
> > The Hawk Quadrille
> > Buffalo Quadrille
> > Camille's Quadrille
> > Queen's Quadrille (same as King's but the moves are straight across
> instead
> > of to the right) - also known as "The Quiet Square"
> > Easy Does it Quadrille
> > Knave's Quadrille
> > Karen's Quadrille
> > Western Quadrille
> > Wardwell Quadrille
> > Colonial's Quadrille
> > Farmer's Quadrille
> >
> > Hmm... I hadn't realised that there were so many!
> >
> > But they are all just square dances. None of them bear any
> > resemblance to an actual Quadrille. A few like Western Quadrille are
> based
> > on one figure of an actual Quadrille, but with modern styling.
> >
> > It’s a nice word and sounds good in a dance title. :-)
> >
> > Happy dancing,
> > John
> <snip>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
In addition to Jamaica, quadrilles (kwadril) (apparently derived from 18th or 19th century French quadrilles) are danced in Guadeloupe, Dominica, Martinique, and Saint Lucia. One of their multi-part suites is even named “Lancers”. They are most often danced to live Antillean music, with a wonderful swaying step. A search on the term ‘quadrille’ and the name of any of the islands will quickly turn up numerous videos. There are probably the most from Guadeloupe….
The dances are performed at public events by clubs that practice the sequences. Occasionally they seem to have open dances in public settings, or in a party setting with food. In some of the videos, the moves from the quadrilles are danced with long lines of facing couples (in Beckett formation, as someone pointed out), without progression. These events bring together dancers from more than one club.
I should warn you that you may well be delighted by watching these videos, and find it hard to stop.
Richard
``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
Richard Hopkins
Middlebury, VT
850-544-7614
hopkinsrs(a)comcast.net <mailto:hopkinsrs@comcast.net>
>
John Sweeney raises an interesting point about the differences in styling between 19th century quadrilles (Tony Parkes's definition 1) and the phrased New England squares of today (Tony's definition 3), whether the latter have the word "Quadrille" in their titles or not.
Where today's dancers would to courtesy turns, or replace them with twirls and other embellishments, 19th-century dance manuals prescribe a simple turn by the left hand. The word "swing" was used to describe a two-hand turn, or sometimes other figures such as a right-hand or left-hand turn or a circle, but certainly not something done in the closed ballroom-like position we generally use for swings today. Also, if I understand correctly, where we generally use a simple walking step for most square dance figures other than "balance" and "swing", dancers in the early 19th century were taught more elaborate footwork. (My impression is that later in 19th century, the fancy footwork became less common, though some dancing masters may have objected to that trend. However, I haven't looked carefully through available books of the period to check the trends in what people were writing, much less do I know how well what appeared in the books of any decade corresponded to what dancers were actually doing.)
John lists a number of dances with "Quadrille" in their titles and writes of them:
> But they are all just square dances. None of them bear any
> resemblance to an actual Quadrille. A few like Western Quadrille are based
> on one figure of an actual Quadrille, but with modern styling.
>
> It’s a nice word and sounds good in a dance title. :-)
Those remarks apply at least as much to my own "Wardwell Quadrille" series as to any of the other dances on John's list. I used the word "Quadrille" in the titles simply because I thought it sounded good in combination with "Wardwell" ("Wardwell Hall" being the former name of the church social hall used by the BACDS San Francisco contra dance series). I didn't at all imagine the dances being done in an especially elegaaahnt style, and my preferred music would be old-time reels, not the 6/8 tunes of Tony's definition 4 of "quadrille" nor the sort of orchestral music used for those Viennese "quadrilles" that I referenced in an earlier message.
--Jim
On Feb 23, 2020, at 3:24 AM, John Sweeney via Contra Callers <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> Calling something a Quadrille doesn't necessarily make it a Quadrille.
>
> To me the King's Quadrille is just a modern American square dance.
>
> It doesn't have the styling or the moves or the length/complexity of a
> Quadrille (e.g. I don't believe that courtesy turns existed in the period
> when Quadrilles were danced).
>
> The only commonality is that it is done by four couples in a Square.
>
> On checking, I find that I have the following in my deck:
> Festival Quadrille
> The Hawk Quadrille
> Buffalo Quadrille
> Camille's Quadrille
> Queen's Quadrille (same as King's but the moves are straight across instead
> of to the right) - also known as "The Quiet Square"
> Easy Does it Quadrille
> Knave's Quadrille
> Karen's Quadrille
> Western Quadrille
> Wardwell Quadrille
> Colonial's Quadrille
> Farmer's Quadrille
>
> Hmm... I hadn't realised that there were so many!
>
> But they are all just square dances. None of them bear any
> resemblance to an actual Quadrille. A few like Western Quadrille are based
> on one figure of an actual Quadrille, but with modern styling.
>
> It’s a nice word and sounds good in a dance title. :-)
>
> Happy dancing,
> John
<snip>
