Hi Diane,
Your reference to home sides is not just relevant to modern “improper” dances. It also applies to ancient and traditional ones. The concept of “First Couples Improper” goes way back; the earliest dance I know is “Old Simon the King” from 1679! “First man being on his wo. side”. :-)
http://playforddances.com/dances/old-simon-the-king/
I tend to say, “YOUR side” rather than “home side”. The concept is especially useful when the man does both a neighbour swing and a partner swing on their own side.
Happy dancing,
John
John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 574
http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html for Live Music Ceilidhs
http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive DVDs
From: Diane Silver via Contra Callers <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
Sent: 04 March 2020 14:02
To: contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Subject: [Callers] Re: First composition! Has it been written?
I have always referred to the two sides of the set in terms of the starting position ("home side") for each partner, in a given dance.
In a traditional "proper" dance, all ladies have the same home side, as do all the gents; thus there is a ladies' line and gents' line.
In a modern "improper" dance, with 1s crossed over, each partner has a home side. There is no ladies' or gents' line, but when you swing with your partner, it's either on the gents' home side or the ladies' home side, from your perspective as a couple. The same is true for "indecent" formation; each partner has their own home side.
In Becket formation, both partners have the same home side. I often emphasize to dancers to really notice that "this is OUR home side." It remains your home side all the way up or down the set, but then switches to the other side when you reach the end of the line, wait out, and then begin progressing the other direction up or down the line.
- Diane
Hi folks :)
Wondering if any of you might know the name/author for the following dance.
I picked it up a while ago but don't have any other info
A1 N Bal&Box-the-Gnat /// N DSD
A2 N Al R 1.5 // Robins Al L 1.5
B1 P B&Sw
B2 Robin Chain /// LH Star
Thanks!
Emily
I sometimes hear callers use quick one liners to make dancers smile, to keep their attention, and to help them remember a move. Here’s a couple I have heard and use during walkthroughs sometimes.
1. For a petronella turn:
“Take hands in a ring.
Balance the ring.
Look at the person in your right hand.
They don’t know you are looking at them because they are looking at someone else.
You will be standing exactly where they are...... “
2. For an a la main left:
“Raise your left hand as if you were going to do an a la main left.
Now do an a la main left.....”
What other similar one liners do others use - if any?
Rich Hart.
Sent from my iPhone
I have always referred to the two sides of the set in terms of the
starting position ("home side") for each partner, in a given dance.
In a traditional "proper" dance, all ladies have the same home side, as
do all the gents; thus there is a ladies' line and gents' line.
In a modern "improper" dance, with 1s crossed over, each partner has a
home side. There is no ladies' or gents' line, but when you swing with
your partner, it's either on the gents' home side or the ladies' home
side, from your perspective as a couple. The same is true for
"indecent" formation; each partner has their own home side.
In Becket formation, both partners have the same home side. I often
emphasize to dancers to really notice that "this is OUR home side." It
remains your home side all the way up or down the set, but then switches
to the other side when you reach the end of the line, wait out, and then
begin progressing the other direction up or down the line.
- Diane
On 3/3/2020 6:34 PM, John Sweeney via Contra Callers wrote:
>
> Hmmm… One side is the Men’s side (as defined by the need to be able to
> draw your sword easily when facing the presence, even if your partner
> has a wide dress). The other is the Ladies’ Side. If you are on your
> own side you are Proper, if not you are Improper. (Substitute your
> favourite words as necessary.)
>
> I have never heard of any logical way that it can be used to refer to
> a couple’s orientation without being confusing or ambiguous.
>
> :-)
>
> Happy dancing,
>
> John
>
> John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362 &
> 07802 940 574
>
> http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html for Live Music Ceilidhs
>
> http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
>
> http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive DVDs
>
> *From:*Chet Gray <chetgray+calling(a)gmail.com>
> *Sent:* 03 March 2020 21:17
> *To:* John Sweeney <john(a)modernjive.com>
> *Cc:* Shared Weight - Contra Callers
> <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [Callers] Re: First composition! Has it been written?
>
> I'm fine with that. There's clearly overlap between using "proper" and
> "improper" to refer to the orientation of a couple and to refer to the
> orientation of a (duple) minor set, and I suspect some regionalism as
> to which is intended by the speaker.
>
> — Chet Gray
>
> dance caller
>
> Louisville, KY
>
> <chetgray+calling(a)gmail.com <mailto:chetgray+calling@gmail.com>>
>
> (502) 419-7008 <tel:+1-502-419-7008>
>
> On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 4:10 PM John Sweeney via Contra Callers
> <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> <mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:
>
> What’s wrong with “Second Couples Improper” if you don’t want to
> say “Indecent”?
>
> Happy dancing,
>
> John
>
> John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com
> <mailto:john@modernjive.com> 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 574
>
> http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html for Live Music Ceilidhs
>
> http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
>
> http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive DVDs
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Hi Chet and all,
Nice dance. This video shows the formations you mapped out.
https://youtu.be/m15ePORDKlc
Cheers, Bill
On 4/03/2020 10:11 am, Chet Gray via Contra Callers wrote:
> A1 indecent
> balance & petronella
> indecent Becket-ccw
> balance & petronella
> A2 progressed improper
> balance & petronella
> indecent Becket
> Partners swing
> B1 Becket
> Robins chain
> progressed improper
> circle right 4 places
> B2 progressed improper
> turn alone to face Next Neighbors ⁋
> new set improper
> circle left 2 places
> progressed indecent
> Neighbors swing
I'm fine with that. There's clearly overlap between using "proper" and
"improper" to refer to the orientation of a couple and to refer to the
orientation of a (duple) minor set, and I suspect some regionalism as to
which is intended by the speaker.
— Chet Gray
dance caller
Louisville, KY
<chetgray+calling(a)gmail.com>
(502) 419-7008 <+1-502-419-7008>
On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 4:10 PM John Sweeney via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> What’s wrong with “Second Couples Improper” if you don’t want to say
> “Indecent”?
>
>
>
> Happy dancing,
>
> John
>
>
>
> John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802
> 940 574
>
> http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html for Live Music
> Ceilidhs
>
> http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
>
>
> http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive DVDs
>
FWIW it's a lot easier to pick and play music for a dance that is "repeated
balances in the A, smooth in the B" than "repeated balances at the
beginning of the A and end of the B".
On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 1:12 PM Chet Gray via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> I realized it does bear some similarity to "Don't Think, Dance" by Tavi
> Merrill:
> Don't Think, Dance
>
> by: *Tavi Merrill <https://contradb.com/choreographers/69>*
>
> formation: indecent
> A1 8
> balance & petronella directly into...
> 8
> Partners swing
> A2 8
> Robins chain
> 8
> Robins start a half hey - rights in center, lefts on ends - look away to Next
> Neighbors ⁋
> B1 16
> Next Neighbors balance & swing - join hands four
> B2 8
> balance & petronella
> 8
> balance & petronella
>
>
> Similar intentions, different starting place, different progression.
>
> — Chet Gray
> dance caller
> Louisville, KY
> <chetgray+calling(a)gmail.com>
> (502) 419-7008 <+1-502-419-7008>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 11:39 AM Chet Gray via Contra Callers <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> The Louisville Callers Collective, at our meet-up this past Sunday 3/1,
>> collaboratively wrote our first dance! I searched for homologous
>> choreography in ContraDB and The Callers Box, and to a reasonable extent
>> via Google, and couldn't find any extant dances. Anybody know of something
>> I missed?
>> [name pending]
>>
>> hook: stompy A, circle > progress > circle B
>>
>> by: *Louisville Callers Collective
>> <https://contradb.com/choreographers/330>*
>>
>> formation: improper
>> A1 8
>> balance & petronella
>> 8
>> balance & petronella
>> A2 8
>> balance & petronella
>> 8
>> Partners swing
>> B1 8
>> Robins chain
>> 8
>> circle right 4 places
>> B2 2
>> turn alone to face Next Neighbors ⁋
>> 4
>> circle left 2 places
>> 10
>> Neighbors swing
>>
>> 2020-03-01 Louisville Callers Collective meeting collaboration.
>>
>> Co-coreographers: Bob Crawford, Callie Allison, Chet Gray, Elisabeth
>> Monica, John Murner, Nedra McNeil, Susan Pope.
>>
>> We began with a blank whiteboard, and brainstormed some of our favorite
>> elements of dances, among them: circle > progress > circle, group balances,
>> good flow, swings with partner and neighbor. We then divided the whiteboard
>> into space for A1 A2 B1 B2, put a partner balance & swing in the B2, and
>> began expanding from there, diagramming where each dancer was after each
>> figure. Alright, what can go into a circle right? A right hand chain. Let's
>> put it after the partner swing. That trades the Robins' places, so circle
>> once around will put couples ready to progress to new neighbors. Circle
>> left from there. Now, where can we put a neighbor swing? Well, unless we
>> want to end it mid-phrase, either after the circle left or before the
>> partner balance and swing. We need to get partners to the same side for
>> that, so that might be awkward. Circle left into swing, then. Is this the
>> hand that flows into the swing? It is! How far, then? Oh, only circle
>> halfway. Not the usual, might need to emphasize that calling. Okay, now to
>> get the Larks across for the partner swing, and we have 16 counts to do it.
>> Hmm. Hey? Allemande? Petronellas move people around. Maybe with a give and
>> take? Petronella into a swing? Let's try it. Ah-ha!
>>
>> We tested it out, with music, beginning in three different places: the
>> circle left, the chain, and the Petronellas. Each had some things we like
>> and disliked about the flow (and we named each rotated variation in
>> succession), but we thought that beginning with the Petronellas was the
>> most generally successful version.
>>
>> Anyway, maybe it's been written before, maybe not. We're really proud of
>> our group (and, I think, rightfully so), which includes some brand new
>> rising callers. I look forward to seeing where we all go from here.
>>
>> — Chet Gray
>> dance caller
>> Louisville, KY
>> <chetgray+calling(a)gmail.com>
>> (502) 419-7008 <+1-502-419-7008>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
Dancers stand out Improper on the ends, to prepare for the progressing new
neighbors with whom they'll circle left.
A1 indecent
L1 R1
R2 L2
balance & petronella
indecent
Becket-ccw
R1 L2
L1 R2
balance & petronella
A2 progressed
improper
L2 R2
R1 L1
balance & petronella
indecent
Becket
R2 L1
L2 R1
Partners swing
B1 Becket
L2 R1
R2 L1
Robins chain
progressed
improper
L2 R2
R1 L1
circle right 4 places
B2 progressed
improper
L2 R2
R1 L1
turn alone to face Next Neighbors ⁋
new set
improper
L2 R2
---------
R1 L1
L2 R2
---------
R1L2
circle left 2 places
progressed
indecent
R2 L2
L1 R1
Neighbors swing
My concern with "reverse-improper" is confusion with what some might call
"reverse-progression improper", with 1s below 2s, Lark left and Robin when
facing into the minor set. Chris Page (among others) have called this
"progressed indecent", see
https://contrachoreography.wordpress.com/2013/11/06/the-twenty-four-duple-m….
That said, I'm generally fine with whatever folks use, so long as they
clarify themselves when needed.
— Chet Gray
dance caller
Louisville, KY
<chetgray+calling(a)gmail.com>
(502) 419-7008 <+1-502-419-7008>
On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 3:21 PM Erik Hoffman via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> On this new dance, *Name Impending*, it’s interesting, and it took me 5
> minutes to figure this out but:
>
>
>
> It can start either improper or reverse-improper. That’s because, either
> way, three Petronella turns put you on the Lark’s side with your partner
> (one with the Lark on the left, the other with the Robin on the left). Then
> the partner swing puts everything in order. So you can start this dance
> improper, then let it flow. When couples come in on the end they can stand
> “crossed over” or not. It might be confusing, if one doesn’t cross over, to
> do the Petronellas in a Lark-Lark-Robin-Robin circle, but it’ll, as noted,
> straighten out momentarily.
>
>
>
> As I’m considering this, we may note that, when circling left ¾ into a
> swing, it’s far smoother for the Robin to draw into that swing with the
> Lark on the right. Using Petronella turns makes it smooth either way.
>
>
>
> An aside: I’m not sure if others feel this way but, I really don’t like
> calling the reverse-improper formation “indecent.” I think using that name
> is, well, sort of ugly and, to me, not funny. Maybe I’ve finally made it to
> being an old curmudgeon… At any rate, I’ll continue to call it
> reverse-improper.
>
>
>
> ~Erik Hoffman
>
> Oakland, CA
>
It bears some similarity, but it is different enough to be its own dance. I
like it!
Hal
On Tue, Mar 3, 2020, 1:13 PM Chet Gray via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> I realized it does bear some similarity to "Don't Think, Dance" by Tavi
> Merrill:
> Don't Think, Dance
>
> by: *Tavi Merrill <https://contradb.com/choreographers/69>*
>
> formation: indecent
> A1 8
> balance & petronella directly into...
> 8
> Partners swing
> A2 8
> Robins chain
> 8
> Robins start a half hey - rights in center, lefts on ends - look away to Next
> Neighbors ⁋
> B1 16
> Next Neighbors balance & swing - join hands four
> B2 8
> balance & petronella
> 8
> balance & petronella
>
>
> Similar intentions, different starting place, different progression.
>
> — Chet Gray
> dance caller
> Louisville, KY
> <chetgray+calling(a)gmail.com>
> (502) 419-7008 <+1-502-419-7008>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 11:39 AM Chet Gray via Contra Callers <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> The Louisville Callers Collective, at our meet-up this past Sunday 3/1,
>> collaboratively wrote our first dance! I searched for homologous
>> choreography in ContraDB and The Callers Box, and to a reasonable extent
>> via Google, and couldn't find any extant dances. Anybody know of something
>> I missed?
>> [name pending]
>>
>> hook: stompy A, circle > progress > circle B
>>
>> by: *Louisville Callers Collective
>> <https://contradb.com/choreographers/330>*
>>
>> formation: improper
>> A1 8
>> balance & petronella
>> 8
>> balance & petronella
>> A2 8
>> balance & petronella
>> 8
>> Partners swing
>> B1 8
>> Robins chain
>> 8
>> circle right 4 places
>> B2 2
>> turn alone to face Next Neighbors ⁋
>> 4
>> circle left 2 places
>> 10
>> Neighbors swing
>>
>> 2020-03-01 Louisville Callers Collective meeting collaboration.
>>
>> Co-coreographers: Bob Crawford, Callie Allison, Chet Gray, Elisabeth
>> Monica, John Murner, Nedra McNeil, Susan Pope.
>>
>> We began with a blank whiteboard, and brainstormed some of our favorite
>> elements of dances, among them: circle > progress > circle, group balances,
>> good flow, swings with partner and neighbor. We then divided the whiteboard
>> into space for A1 A2 B1 B2, put a partner balance & swing in the B2, and
>> began expanding from there, diagramming where each dancer was after each
>> figure. Alright, what can go into a circle right? A right hand chain. Let's
>> put it after the partner swing. That trades the Robins' places, so circle
>> once around will put couples ready to progress to new neighbors. Circle
>> left from there. Now, where can we put a neighbor swing? Well, unless we
>> want to end it mid-phrase, either after the circle left or before the
>> partner balance and swing. We need to get partners to the same side for
>> that, so that might be awkward. Circle left into swing, then. Is this the
>> hand that flows into the swing? It is! How far, then? Oh, only circle
>> halfway. Not the usual, might need to emphasize that calling. Okay, now to
>> get the Larks across for the partner swing, and we have 16 counts to do it.
>> Hmm. Hey? Allemande? Petronellas move people around. Maybe with a give and
>> take? Petronella into a swing? Let's try it. Ah-ha!
>>
>> We tested it out, with music, beginning in three different places: the
>> circle left, the chain, and the Petronellas. Each had some things we like
>> and disliked about the flow (and we named each rotated variation in
>> succession), but we thought that beginning with the Petronellas was the
>> most generally successful version.
>>
>> Anyway, maybe it's been written before, maybe not. We're really proud of
>> our group (and, I think, rightfully so), which includes some brand new
>> rising callers. I look forward to seeing where we all go from here.
>>
>> — Chet Gray
>> dance caller
>> Louisville, KY
>> <chetgray+calling(a)gmail.com>
>> (502) 419-7008 <+1-502-419-7008>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
