On this new dance, Name Impending, it’s interesting, and it took me 5 minutes to figure this out but:
It can start either improper or reverse-improper. That’s because, either way, three Petronella turns put you on the Lark’s side with your partner (one with the Lark on the left, the other with the Robin on the left). Then the partner swing puts everything in order. So you can start this dance improper, then let it flow. When couples come in on the end they can stand “crossed over” or not. It might be confusing, if one doesn’t cross over, to do the Petronellas in a Lark-Lark-Robin-Robin circle, but it’ll, as noted, straighten out momentarily.
As I’m considering this, we may note that, when circling left ¾ into a swing, it’s far smoother for the Robin to draw into that swing with the Lark on the right. Using Petronella turns makes it smooth either way.
An aside: I’m not sure if others feel this way but, I really don’t like calling the reverse-improper formation “indecent.” I think using that name is, well, sort of ugly and, to me, not funny. Maybe I’ve finally made it to being an old curmudgeon… At any rate, I’ll continue to call it reverse-improper.
~Erik Hoffman
Oakland, CA
From: Gregory Frock via Contra Callers <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
Sent: Tuesday, March 3, 2020 9:17 AM
To: Chet Gray <chetgray+calling(a)gmail.com>
Cc: contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Subject: [Callers] Re: First composition! Has it been written?
Hi Chet,
I probably missed something in the instructions, but it looks to me like the dance is indecent (robins left, larks right facing up and down). Due to a peculiarity of the choreography, it can start improper, but will end indecent every time after that. Is that correct? Can anyone else confirm?
If I am correct, I would label the dance as "indecent" with a note that the dance can start from improper or indecent position.
Regards,
Greg
On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 11:39 AM Chet Gray via Contra Callers <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:
The Louisville Callers Collective, at our meet-up this past Sunday 3/1, collaboratively wrote our first dance! I searched for homologous choreography in ContraDB and The Callers Box, and to a reasonable extent via Google, and couldn't find any extant dances. Anybody know of something I missed?
[name pending]
hook: stompy A, circle > progress > circle B
by: Louisville Callers Collective<https://contradb.com/choreographers/330>
formation: improper
A1
8
balance & petronella
8
balance & petronella
A2
8
balance & petronella
8
Partners swing
B1
8
Robins chain
8
circle right 4 places
B2
2
turn alone to face Next Neighbors ⁋
4
circle left 2 places
10
Neighbors swing
2020-03-01 Louisville Callers Collective meeting collaboration.
Co-coreographers: Bob Crawford, Callie Allison, Chet Gray, Elisabeth Monica, John Murner, Nedra McNeil, Susan Pope.
We began with a blank whiteboard, and brainstormed some of our favorite elements of dances, among them: circle > progress > circle, group balances, good flow, swings with partner and neighbor. We then divided the whiteboard into space for A1 A2 B1 B2, put a partner balance & swing in the B2, and began expanding from there, diagramming where each dancer was after each figure. Alright, what can go into a circle right? A right hand chain. Let's put it after the partner swing. That trades the Robins' places, so circle once around will put couples ready to progress to new neighbors. Circle left from there. Now, where can we put a neighbor swing? Well, unless we want to end it mid-phrase, either after the circle left or before the partner balance and swing. We need to get partners to the same side for that, so that might be awkward. Circle left into swing, then. Is this the hand that flows into the swing? It is! How far, then? Oh, only circle halfway. Not the usual, might need to emphasize that calling. Okay, now to get the Larks across for the partner swing, and we have 16 counts to do it. Hmm. Hey? Allemande? Petronellas move people around. Maybe with a give and take? Petronella into a swing? Let's try it. Ah-ha!
We tested it out, with music, beginning in three different places: the circle left, the chain, and the Petronellas. Each had some things we like and disliked about the flow (and we named each rotated variation in succession), but we thought that beginning with the Petronellas was the most generally successful version.
Anyway, maybe it's been written before, maybe not. We're really proud of our group (and, I think, rightfully so), which includes some brand new rising callers. I look forward to seeing where we all go from here.
— Chet Gray
dance caller
Louisville, KY
<chetgray+calling(a)gmail.com<mailto:chetgray+calling@gmail.com>>
(502) 419-7008<tel:+1-502-419-7008>
_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:contracallers-leave@lists.sharedweight.net>
I realized it does bear some similarity to "Don't Think, Dance" by Tavi
Merrill:
Don't Think, Dance
by: *Tavi Merrill <https://contradb.com/choreographers/69>*
formation: indecent
A1 8
balance & petronella directly into...
8
Partners swing
A2 8
Robins chain
8
Robins start a half hey - rights in center, lefts on ends - look away to Next
Neighbors ⁋
B1 16
Next Neighbors balance & swing - join hands four
B2 8
balance & petronella
8
balance & petronella
Similar intentions, different starting place, different progression.
— Chet Gray
dance caller
Louisville, KY
<chetgray+calling(a)gmail.com>
(502) 419-7008 <+1-502-419-7008>
On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 11:39 AM Chet Gray via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> The Louisville Callers Collective, at our meet-up this past Sunday 3/1,
> collaboratively wrote our first dance! I searched for homologous
> choreography in ContraDB and The Callers Box, and to a reasonable extent
> via Google, and couldn't find any extant dances. Anybody know of something
> I missed?
> [name pending]
>
> hook: stompy A, circle > progress > circle B
>
> by: *Louisville Callers Collective
> <https://contradb.com/choreographers/330>*
>
> formation: improper
> A1 8
> balance & petronella
> 8
> balance & petronella
> A2 8
> balance & petronella
> 8
> Partners swing
> B1 8
> Robins chain
> 8
> circle right 4 places
> B2 2
> turn alone to face Next Neighbors ⁋
> 4
> circle left 2 places
> 10
> Neighbors swing
>
> 2020-03-01 Louisville Callers Collective meeting collaboration.
>
> Co-coreographers: Bob Crawford, Callie Allison, Chet Gray, Elisabeth
> Monica, John Murner, Nedra McNeil, Susan Pope.
>
> We began with a blank whiteboard, and brainstormed some of our favorite
> elements of dances, among them: circle > progress > circle, group balances,
> good flow, swings with partner and neighbor. We then divided the whiteboard
> into space for A1 A2 B1 B2, put a partner balance & swing in the B2, and
> began expanding from there, diagramming where each dancer was after each
> figure. Alright, what can go into a circle right? A right hand chain. Let's
> put it after the partner swing. That trades the Robins' places, so circle
> once around will put couples ready to progress to new neighbors. Circle
> left from there. Now, where can we put a neighbor swing? Well, unless we
> want to end it mid-phrase, either after the circle left or before the
> partner balance and swing. We need to get partners to the same side for
> that, so that might be awkward. Circle left into swing, then. Is this the
> hand that flows into the swing? It is! How far, then? Oh, only circle
> halfway. Not the usual, might need to emphasize that calling. Okay, now to
> get the Larks across for the partner swing, and we have 16 counts to do it.
> Hmm. Hey? Allemande? Petronellas move people around. Maybe with a give and
> take? Petronella into a swing? Let's try it. Ah-ha!
>
> We tested it out, with music, beginning in three different places: the
> circle left, the chain, and the Petronellas. Each had some things we like
> and disliked about the flow (and we named each rotated variation in
> succession), but we thought that beginning with the Petronellas was the
> most generally successful version.
>
> Anyway, maybe it's been written before, maybe not. We're really proud of
> our group (and, I think, rightfully so), which includes some brand new
> rising callers. I look forward to seeing where we all go from here.
>
> — Chet Gray
> dance caller
> Louisville, KY
> <chetgray+calling(a)gmail.com>
> (502) 419-7008 <+1-502-419-7008>
> _______________________________________________
> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
Whoops, you're entirely correct, Greg, thanks for the correction, I
neglected to change the formation after I rotated the sequence. It is
indecent, and it could indeed begin either indecent or improper.
— Chet Gray
dance caller
Louisville, KY
<chetgray+calling(a)gmail.com>
(502) 419-7008 <+1-502-419-7008>
On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 12:16 PM Gregory Frock via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> Hi Chet,
>
> I probably missed something in the instructions, but it looks to me like
> the dance is indecent (robins left, larks right facing up and down). Due to
> a peculiarity of the choreography, it can start improper, but will end
> indecent every time after that. Is that correct? Can anyone else confirm?
>
> If I am correct, I would label the dance as "indecent" with a note that
> the dance can start from improper or indecent position.
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
I’m with you, Martha!
All that “ravens pass left, neighbours pass right” stuff is just noise to me (and always was, even as a new dancer)—I always wondered who they were talking to up there—I couldn’t imagine how anyone could process all that information coming at them like a machine gun!). I just needed the floor pattern and I was fine. Personally I’ve settled on “everyone passes by right shoulders when in middle of the set and everyone passes by left shoulders on the sides” as a compromise between too much info vs. too little. But I like the drawing of the floor pattern idea as a quick adjunct for the visual learners out there like me. I toyed for a while with bringing a fan belt (rubber loop) and crossing it in the middle to show the weaving pattern, but magic marker on manilla folder is considerably more practical! :-)
Yes, everyone learns differently, so it’s helpful to teach it in more than one way.
Thanks, everyone, for all the useful suggestions!
Becky (Toronto)
> On Mar 3, 2020, at 10:11 AM, Martha Wild via Contra Callers <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> When I first danced, I couldn’t get the hey for weeks and weeks until someone drew a figure 8 with an extra loop on a blackboard for me. Then it all made sense.
>
> For that reason, now, I keep a large hand-drawn with dark thick magic marker figure 8 with extra loop on a piece of stiff light paper (like a manilla folder thickness) that I can hold up and show briefly as I am teaching the figure. It doesn’t get everyone, but it gets people like me. There are always one or two -
> “ahas” that I hear. I could never learn it from the pass this shoulder or that instruction. I needed the floor pattern. Everyone learns differently.
>
> Martha
> _______________________________________________
> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Hi Chet,
I probably missed something in the instructions, but it looks to me like
the dance is indecent (robins left, larks right facing up and down). Due to
a peculiarity of the choreography, it can start improper, but will end
indecent every time after that. Is that correct? Can anyone else confirm?
If I am correct, I would label the dance as "indecent" with a note that the
dance can start from improper or indecent position.
Regards,
Greg
On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 11:39 AM Chet Gray via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> The Louisville Callers Collective, at our meet-up this past Sunday 3/1,
> collaboratively wrote our first dance! I searched for homologous
> choreography in ContraDB and The Callers Box, and to a reasonable extent
> via Google, and couldn't find any extant dances. Anybody know of something
> I missed?
> [name pending]
>
> hook: stompy A, circle > progress > circle B
>
> by: *Louisville Callers Collective
> <https://contradb.com/choreographers/330>*
>
> formation: improper
> A1 8
> balance & petronella
> 8
> balance & petronella
> A2 8
> balance & petronella
> 8
> Partners swing
> B1 8
> Robins chain
> 8
> circle right 4 places
> B2 2
> turn alone to face Next Neighbors ⁋
> 4
> circle left 2 places
> 10
> Neighbors swing
>
> 2020-03-01 Louisville Callers Collective meeting collaboration.
>
> Co-coreographers: Bob Crawford, Callie Allison, Chet Gray, Elisabeth
> Monica, John Murner, Nedra McNeil, Susan Pope.
>
> We began with a blank whiteboard, and brainstormed some of our favorite
> elements of dances, among them: circle > progress > circle, group balances,
> good flow, swings with partner and neighbor. We then divided the whiteboard
> into space for A1 A2 B1 B2, put a partner balance & swing in the B2, and
> began expanding from there, diagramming where each dancer was after each
> figure. Alright, what can go into a circle right? A right hand chain. Let's
> put it after the partner swing. That trades the Robins' places, so circle
> once around will put couples ready to progress to new neighbors. Circle
> left from there. Now, where can we put a neighbor swing? Well, unless we
> want to end it mid-phrase, either after the circle left or before the
> partner balance and swing. We need to get partners to the same side for
> that, so that might be awkward. Circle left into swing, then. Is this the
> hand that flows into the swing? It is! How far, then? Oh, only circle
> halfway. Not the usual, might need to emphasize that calling. Okay, now to
> get the Larks across for the partner swing, and we have 16 counts to do it.
> Hmm. Hey? Allemande? Petronellas move people around. Maybe with a give and
> take? Petronella into a swing? Let's try it. Ah-ha!
>
> We tested it out, with music, beginning in three different places: the
> circle left, the chain, and the Petronellas. Each had some things we like
> and disliked about the flow (and we named each rotated variation in
> succession), but we thought that beginning with the Petronellas was the
> most generally successful version.
>
> Anyway, maybe it's been written before, maybe not. We're really proud of
> our group (and, I think, rightfully so), which includes some brand new
> rising callers. I look forward to seeing where we all go from here.
>
> — Chet Gray
> dance caller
> Louisville, KY
> <chetgray+calling(a)gmail.com>
> (502) 419-7008 <+1-502-419-7008>
> _______________________________________________
> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
The Louisville Callers Collective, at our meet-up this past Sunday 3/1,
collaboratively wrote our first dance! I searched for homologous
choreography in ContraDB and The Callers Box, and to a reasonable extent
via Google, and couldn't find any extant dances. Anybody know of something
I missed?
[name pending]
hook: stompy A, circle > progress > circle B
by: *Louisville Callers Collective
<https://contradb.com/choreographers/330>*
formation: improper
A1 8
balance & petronella
8
balance & petronella
A2 8
balance & petronella
8
Partners swing
B1 8
Robins chain
8
circle right 4 places
B2 2
turn alone to face Next Neighbors ⁋
4
circle left 2 places
10
Neighbors swing
2020-03-01 Louisville Callers Collective meeting collaboration.
Co-coreographers: Bob Crawford, Callie Allison, Chet Gray, Elisabeth
Monica, John Murner, Nedra McNeil, Susan Pope.
We began with a blank whiteboard, and brainstormed some of our favorite
elements of dances, among them: circle > progress > circle, group balances,
good flow, swings with partner and neighbor. We then divided the whiteboard
into space for A1 A2 B1 B2, put a partner balance & swing in the B2, and
began expanding from there, diagramming where each dancer was after each
figure. Alright, what can go into a circle right? A right hand chain. Let's
put it after the partner swing. That trades the Robins' places, so circle
once around will put couples ready to progress to new neighbors. Circle
left from there. Now, where can we put a neighbor swing? Well, unless we
want to end it mid-phrase, either after the circle left or before the
partner balance and swing. We need to get partners to the same side for
that, so that might be awkward. Circle left into swing, then. Is this the
hand that flows into the swing? It is! How far, then? Oh, only circle
halfway. Not the usual, might need to emphasize that calling. Okay, now to
get the Larks across for the partner swing, and we have 16 counts to do it.
Hmm. Hey? Allemande? Petronellas move people around. Maybe with a give and
take? Petronella into a swing? Let's try it. Ah-ha!
We tested it out, with music, beginning in three different places: the
circle left, the chain, and the Petronellas. Each had some things we like
and disliked about the flow (and we named each rotated variation in
succession), but we thought that beginning with the Petronellas was the
most generally successful version.
Anyway, maybe it's been written before, maybe not. We're really proud of
our group (and, I think, rightfully so), which includes some brand new
rising callers. I look forward to seeing where we all go from here.
— Chet Gray
dance caller
Louisville, KY
<chetgray+calling(a)gmail.com>
(502) 419-7008 <+1-502-419-7008>
When I first danced, I couldn’t get the hey for weeks and weeks until someone drew a figure 8 with an extra loop on a blackboard for me. Then it all made sense.
For that reason, now, I keep a large hand-drawn with dark thick magic marker figure 8 with extra loop on a piece of stiff light paper (like a manilla folder thickness) that I can hold up and show briefly as I am teaching the figure. It doesn’t get everyone, but it gets people like me. There are always one or two -
“ahas” that I hear. I could never learn it from the pass this shoulder or that instruction. I needed the floor pattern. Everyone learns differently.
Martha
I wrote more about my experience with dropping out:
https://www.jefftk.com/p/lessons-from-dropping-out
On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 9:13 AM Jeff Kaufman via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> "We do do a lot of talking at our dances, with so many beginners each time
> we basically never stop calling (or maybe we let people muddle through
> without calls for the very last time through some dances - but I assure
> you, many people falter without the instruction!)"
>
> I suspect that the reason things fall apart without calling is that people
> are used to always having calling. Removing calling for one time through
> the dance doesn't work well because it's abrupt and all-or-nothing.
>
> Learning how to drop out gradually can get you and your dancers to a place
> where you don't need to call the whole dance and where the dancers don't
> feel like that calling is needed. This goes something like:
>
> * Start with your standard full calls
>
> * After a time or so through the dance, use shorter versions of the calls
> ("long lines" and not "long lines forwards and back"). Still have the calls
> end right before the next figure. This means they have less time from the
> call until the figure, and so practice anticipating the next figure.
>
> * Continue using shorter and shorter calls ("lines")
>
> * Leave out calls when it's pretty obvious and/or there's lots of catch-up
> time. If the dance has a pass through, balance, and swing then you can
> start leaving out the "swing" call because most people will learn quickly
> that it follows the balance, and anyone who forgets has plenty of time to
> look around them and figure it out. Then you can start leaving out the
> "balance" because that will seem natural to the dancers after the pass
> through.
>
> * Pay attention to where the dancers are getting confused, and support the
> tricky parts of the dance. If it's sometimes circle and swing, and other
> times circle and pass through, call the swing/pass longer because it's hard
> to remember.
>
> If the dancers always have everything prompted for them, they don't learn
> the choreography.
>
> Jeff
>
> On Tue, Mar 3, 2020, 8:13 AM Katherine Kitching via Contra Callers <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>> Subject: Re: [Callers] Re: actual timing of calls for hey for four
>> Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2020 14:23:10 -0400
>> From: Katherine Kitching <kat(a)outdooractive.ca> <kat(a)outdooractive.ca>
>> To: contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>
>> Hi all, wanted to thank everyone for all the super varied/interesting and
>> helpful feedback and suggestions!
>>
>> I also wanted to report that my first Hey went very well on Saturday
>> night.
>>
>> What I ended up doing was creating 2 "practice lines" in the centre of
>> our big teaching circle (I always teach new figures in a big circle) -
>> which each had 3 people set up in a line with generous space between, and
>> first I walked through one of those lines myself starting first from the
>> middle, to demo how the Raven would proceed, and then from one end to show
>> how the Lark would proceed -- both to 16 counts -- showing how I passed the
>> person in the middle by the right shoulder and the people on the ends by
>> the left shoulder, and explaining how in reality everyone is moving so
>> there won't actually be a person to walk around at the ends, but looping
>> around that stationary person in the practice line gives you a feel for how
>> to do the figure.
>>
>> Then I brought in a fourth person into the practice line and actually got
>> everyone to move at once, to demo how the Hey works (which blew the new
>> people's minds, they were laughing at how complicated it looked compared to
>> when 3 of the four people had been standing still)
>>
>> Then I offered those who had never done a hey before the chance to try it
>> with the other 3 ppl being stationary, encouraging Ravens to try from the
>> middle and Larks to try from an end, to simulate what they'd be
>> experiencing in the dance...
>>
>> So that was neat, cause those who wanted to try got to try, and those who
>> are visual learners and felt that they got the concept just from my demo,
>> along with those who have already done a hey before, didn't have to do
>> it.... - and having two practice lines sped things up and took attention
>> off everyone just watching one person (I may actually do 3 practice lines
>> in the future!)
>>
>> Then when everyone got into their contra lines and we got to the Hey part
>> in the walk through (after a Raven's chain) I used the patter that you all
>> gave feedback on for a couple of walkthroughs... (but also emphasized that
>> you could mess up the weaving all you wanted to, and it didn't matter as
>> long as you got back to your partner for a bal and swing at the end of the
>> 16 counts - that was probably the most helpful thing for people to grasp).
>>
>> It looked a bit rough during the walkthroughs but everyone indeed made it
>> back "home" on time for the swing, and then as the dance progressed
>> everyone nailed it eventually.
>>
>> During the dance I used parts of the patter sometimes, but by the end
>> just said "into the Hey!" and it was all good.
>>
>> I enjoy that patter though - like I said our previous caller did it and
>> it has a nice feel to it. I got confirmation from our old caller that he
>> did the patter concurrently with each sub-figure of they hey, rather
>> than preceding them.
>> We do do a lot of talking at our dances, with so many beginners each time
>> we basically never stop calling (or maybe we let people muddle through
>> without calls for the very last time through some dances - but I assure
>> you, many people falter without the instruction!) -- anyhow I think our
>> group is pretty used to dancing with lots of verbiage accompanying the
>> music, for better or for worse :)
>>
>> - thanks again!!
>> Learned a lot from all you wrote, and I may try Diane's approach below in
>> the future!!
>> Also loved the idea that just came in this morning to say "pass right
>> with nobody" at the ends, to give an idea of how to walk that final loop...
>> Kat in Halifax
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Diane Silver via Contra Callers wrote on 2/28/2020 3:15 PM:
>>
>> Like Erik, I emphasize the loop-around as a critical part of the move.
>> Presuming the preceding move is an 8-count move and there's no short
>> 4-count move that needs to be called, I use the entire preceding 8 beats to
>> prompt the start of the hey before it needs to happen. I call the general
>> move "Hey for four" and also pre-call the descriptive details for how it
>> starts. (I teach the hey emphasizing that as the Robins start passing
>> right, the Larks' first move is to slide over into the right-hand position,
>> and then they'll follow the Robin through the weaving (and of course,
>> vice-versa if it's a left-shoulder hey)). Then I continue to pre-call each
>> piece of the hey while the preceding piece is taking place, in 4-count
>> chunks. Feels like patter calling because there's no stopping:
>>
>> *CAPital letters indicate calling on the downbeat, with emphasis.
>> lower-case calls are like pick-up notes for the following downbeat:*
>>
>>
>>
>> Starting the call way back on beat 9 of the preceding part does not seem
>> to be a problem for the dancers. They finish the move they're doing (often
>> swinging) and the extra thinking time helps them end that move and face
>> across to start the hey on time. I've never had anyone start the hey early
>> because the beginning of the call came so early.
>>
>> -- Diane
>>
>> On 2/28/2020 1:30 PM, Erik Hoffman via Contra Callers wrote:
>>
>> One of the problems with calling heys and this type of timing is the *
>> *WHILE** problem:
>>
>> While a pair is passing in the middle, someone is looping at the end—a
>> sort of “ghost” pass. New dancers often abruptly about-face actually
>> cutting off the path of the next person they’re supposed to pass, and often
>> try to pass with the “other” shoulder.
>>
>> Here’s the Robins (we’ve switched) as the Larks:
>>
>> Robins WHILE Larks
>>
>> Robins pass Right Larks Loop Left (often
>> replaced by a “pause”)
>>
>> Robins pass Larks by Left Larks pass Robins by Left
>>
>> Robins Loop Left Larks pass Right
>>
>> Robins pass Larks by Left Larks pass Robins by left
>>
>> Robins pass Right Larks Loop Left
>>
>> Robins pass Larks by Left Larks pass Robins by left
>>
>> Robins Loop Left Larks pass by Right
>>
>>
>>
>> Again, it’s that X Passes while Y Loops that often leads to problems.
>> Thus, if the teaching didn’t click, when I notice this problem as I watch
>> the problems dancers have I might start calling to those dancers who are
>> doing the “about-face” and call “Loop to the Left (or right) to pass Left
>> (right) Again.”
>>
>>
>>
>> Erik Hoffman
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Jeff Kaufman via Contra Callers
>> <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
>> <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
>> *Sent:* Friday, February 28, 2020 6:50 AM
>> *To:* Katherine Kitching <kat.kitching(a)gmail.com>
>> <kat.kitching(a)gmail.com>
>> *Cc:* contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> *Subject:* [Callers] Re: actual timing of calls for hey for four
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't think there's anything special about they hey: always cue things
>> so that they start on the beat after you finish speaking.
>>
>>
>>
>> You might find "ravens left" etc works better than "ravens pass left",
>> being shorter. Otherwise it's hard to get all the words out.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 6:06 AM Katherine Kitching via Contra Callers <
>> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> hello - first time posting to this list so i'm sorry if I do it wrong
>> (looked in archives and couldn't see obvious answer)
>>
>>
>>
>> I am going to teach and call my first dance with a hey this Saturday..
>> (ie tomorrow)
>>
>>
>>
>> our group takes things slow so i'd like to cue every interaction for the
>> first few times, as our previous caller did.... I don't know how common
>> this is but our previous caller would actually say--
>>
>>
>>
>> ravens pass right
>>
>> neighbours pass left
>>
>> larks pass right
>>
>> partners left
>>
>> ravens pass right
>>
>> neighbours pass left
>>
>> larks pass right
>>
>> partner balance and swing
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm wondering if someone can clarify for me about delivering the calls
>> for this hey....normally of course I deliver instructions so the last bit
>> of instruction ends on the beat prior to the figure starting.
>>
>>
>>
>> But in the case of the Hey, if I remember correctly the caller actually
>> called out the actions *as* they were happening....
>>
>>
>>
>> Am I remembering correctly and if so is this the best approach?
>>
>>
>>
>> In essence-- do I start by calling "ravens pass right" *just before*
>> they do it, or *while* they are doing it?
>>
>>
>>
>> thanks muchly :)
>>
>>
>>
>> Katherine Kitching in Hfx NS Canada
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
"We do do a lot of talking at our dances, with so many beginners each time
we basically never stop calling (or maybe we let people muddle through
without calls for the very last time through some dances - but I assure
you, many people falter without the instruction!)"
I suspect that the reason things fall apart without calling is that people
are used to always having calling. Removing calling for one time through
the dance doesn't work well because it's abrupt and all-or-nothing.
Learning how to drop out gradually can get you and your dancers to a place
where you don't need to call the whole dance and where the dancers don't
feel like that calling is needed. This goes something like:
* Start with your standard full calls
* After a time or so through the dance, use shorter versions of the calls
("long lines" and not "long lines forwards and back"). Still have the calls
end right before the next figure. This means they have less time from the
call until the figure, and so practice anticipating the next figure.
* Continue using shorter and shorter calls ("lines")
* Leave out calls when it's pretty obvious and/or there's lots of catch-up
time. If the dance has a pass through, balance, and swing then you can
start leaving out the "swing" call because most people will learn quickly
that it follows the balance, and anyone who forgets has plenty of time to
look around them and figure it out. Then you can start leaving out the
"balance" because that will seem natural to the dancers after the pass
through.
* Pay attention to where the dancers are getting confused, and support the
tricky parts of the dance. If it's sometimes circle and swing, and other
times circle and pass through, call the swing/pass longer because it's hard
to remember.
If the dancers always have everything prompted for them, they don't learn
the choreography.
Jeff
On Tue, Mar 3, 2020, 8:13 AM Katherine Kitching via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> Subject: Re: [Callers] Re: actual timing of calls for hey for four
> Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2020 14:23:10 -0400
> From: Katherine Kitching <kat(a)outdooractive.ca> <kat(a)outdooractive.ca>
> To: contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
> Hi all, wanted to thank everyone for all the super varied/interesting and
> helpful feedback and suggestions!
>
> I also wanted to report that my first Hey went very well on Saturday night.
>
> What I ended up doing was creating 2 "practice lines" in the centre of our
> big teaching circle (I always teach new figures in a big circle) - which
> each had 3 people set up in a line with generous space between, and first
> I walked through one of those lines myself starting first from the middle,
> to demo how the Raven would proceed, and then from one end to show how the
> Lark would proceed -- both to 16 counts -- showing how I passed the person
> in the middle by the right shoulder and the people on the ends by the left
> shoulder, and explaining how in reality everyone is moving so there won't
> actually be a person to walk around at the ends, but looping around that
> stationary person in the practice line gives you a feel for how to do the
> figure.
>
> Then I brought in a fourth person into the practice line and actually got
> everyone to move at once, to demo how the Hey works (which blew the new
> people's minds, they were laughing at how complicated it looked compared to
> when 3 of the four people had been standing still)
>
> Then I offered those who had never done a hey before the chance to try it
> with the other 3 ppl being stationary, encouraging Ravens to try from the
> middle and Larks to try from an end, to simulate what they'd be
> experiencing in the dance...
>
> So that was neat, cause those who wanted to try got to try, and those who
> are visual learners and felt that they got the concept just from my demo,
> along with those who have already done a hey before, didn't have to do
> it.... - and having two practice lines sped things up and took attention
> off everyone just watching one person (I may actually do 3 practice lines
> in the future!)
>
> Then when everyone got into their contra lines and we got to the Hey part
> in the walk through (after a Raven's chain) I used the patter that you all
> gave feedback on for a couple of walkthroughs... (but also emphasized that
> you could mess up the weaving all you wanted to, and it didn't matter as
> long as you got back to your partner for a bal and swing at the end of the
> 16 counts - that was probably the most helpful thing for people to grasp).
>
> It looked a bit rough during the walkthroughs but everyone indeed made it
> back "home" on time for the swing, and then as the dance progressed
> everyone nailed it eventually.
>
> During the dance I used parts of the patter sometimes, but by the end just
> said "into the Hey!" and it was all good.
>
> I enjoy that patter though - like I said our previous caller did it and it
> has a nice feel to it. I got confirmation from our old caller that he did
> the patter concurrently with each sub-figure of they hey, rather than
> preceding them.
> We do do a lot of talking at our dances, with so many beginners each time
> we basically never stop calling (or maybe we let people muddle through
> without calls for the very last time through some dances - but I assure
> you, many people falter without the instruction!) -- anyhow I think our
> group is pretty used to dancing with lots of verbiage accompanying the
> music, for better or for worse :)
>
> - thanks again!!
> Learned a lot from all you wrote, and I may try Diane's approach below in
> the future!!
> Also loved the idea that just came in this morning to say "pass right with
> nobody" at the ends, to give an idea of how to walk that final loop...
> Kat in Halifax
>
>
>
>
>
> Diane Silver via Contra Callers wrote on 2/28/2020 3:15 PM:
>
> Like Erik, I emphasize the loop-around as a critical part of the move.
> Presuming the preceding move is an 8-count move and there's no short
> 4-count move that needs to be called, I use the entire preceding 8 beats to
> prompt the start of the hey before it needs to happen. I call the general
> move "Hey for four" and also pre-call the descriptive details for how it
> starts. (I teach the hey emphasizing that as the Robins start passing
> right, the Larks' first move is to slide over into the right-hand position,
> and then they'll follow the Robin through the weaving (and of course,
> vice-versa if it's a left-shoulder hey)). Then I continue to pre-call each
> piece of the hey while the preceding piece is taking place, in 4-count
> chunks. Feels like patter calling because there's no stopping:
>
> *CAPital letters indicate calling on the downbeat, with emphasis.
> lower-case calls are like pick-up notes for the following downbeat:*
>
>
>
> Starting the call way back on beat 9 of the preceding part does not seem
> to be a problem for the dancers. They finish the move they're doing (often
> swinging) and the extra thinking time helps them end that move and face
> across to start the hey on time. I've never had anyone start the hey early
> because the beginning of the call came so early.
>
> -- Diane
>
> On 2/28/2020 1:30 PM, Erik Hoffman via Contra Callers wrote:
>
> One of the problems with calling heys and this type of timing is the *
> *WHILE** problem:
>
> While a pair is passing in the middle, someone is looping at the end—a
> sort of “ghost” pass. New dancers often abruptly about-face actually
> cutting off the path of the next person they’re supposed to pass, and often
> try to pass with the “other” shoulder.
>
> Here’s the Robins (we’ve switched) as the Larks:
>
> Robins WHILE Larks
>
> Robins pass Right Larks Loop Left (often
> replaced by a “pause”)
>
> Robins pass Larks by Left Larks pass Robins by Left
>
> Robins Loop Left Larks pass Right
>
> Robins pass Larks by Left Larks pass Robins by left
>
> Robins pass Right Larks Loop Left
>
> Robins pass Larks by Left Larks pass Robins by left
>
> Robins Loop Left Larks pass by Right
>
>
>
> Again, it’s that X Passes while Y Loops that often leads to problems.
> Thus, if the teaching didn’t click, when I notice this problem as I watch
> the problems dancers have I might start calling to those dancers who are
> doing the “about-face” and call “Loop to the Left (or right) to pass Left
> (right) Again.”
>
>
>
> Erik Hoffman
>
>
>
> *From:* Jeff Kaufman via Contra Callers
> <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> *Sent:* Friday, February 28, 2020 6:50 AM
> *To:* Katherine Kitching <kat.kitching(a)gmail.com> <kat.kitching(a)gmail.com>
> *Cc:* contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> *Subject:* [Callers] Re: actual timing of calls for hey for four
>
>
>
> I don't think there's anything special about they hey: always cue things
> so that they start on the beat after you finish speaking.
>
>
>
> You might find "ravens left" etc works better than "ravens pass left",
> being shorter. Otherwise it's hard to get all the words out.
>
>
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 6:06 AM Katherine Kitching via Contra Callers <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>
> hello - first time posting to this list so i'm sorry if I do it wrong
> (looked in archives and couldn't see obvious answer)
>
>
>
> I am going to teach and call my first dance with a hey this Saturday..
> (ie tomorrow)
>
>
>
> our group takes things slow so i'd like to cue every interaction for the
> first few times, as our previous caller did.... I don't know how common
> this is but our previous caller would actually say--
>
>
>
> ravens pass right
>
> neighbours pass left
>
> larks pass right
>
> partners left
>
> ravens pass right
>
> neighbours pass left
>
> larks pass right
>
> partner balance and swing
>
>
>
> I'm wondering if someone can clarify for me about delivering the calls for
> this hey....normally of course I deliver instructions so the last bit of
> instruction ends on the beat prior to the figure starting.
>
>
>
> But in the case of the Hey, if I remember correctly the caller actually
> called out the actions *as* they were happening....
>
>
>
> Am I remembering correctly and if so is this the best approach?
>
>
>
> In essence-- do I start by calling "ravens pass right" *just before* they
> do it, or *while* they are doing it?
>
>
>
> thanks muchly :)
>
>
>
> Katherine Kitching in Hfx NS Canada
>
> _______________________________________________
> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Re: [Callers] Re: actual timing of calls for hey for four
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2020 14:23:10 -0400
From: Katherine Kitching <kat(a)outdooractive.ca>
To: contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Hi all, wanted to thank everyone for all the super varied/interesting
and helpful feedback and suggestions!
I also wanted to report that my first Hey went very well on Saturday night.
What I ended up doing was creating 2 "practice lines" in the centre of
our big teaching circle (I always teach new figures in a big circle) -
which each had 3 people set up in a line with generous space between,
and first I walked through one of those lines myself starting first
from the middle, to demo how the Raven would proceed, and then from one
end to show how the Lark would proceed -- both to 16 counts -- showing
how I passed the person in the middle by the right shoulder and the
people on the ends by the left shoulder, and explaining how in reality
everyone is moving so there won't actually be a person to walk around at
the ends, but looping around that stationary person in the practice line
gives you a feel for how to do the figure.
Then I brought in a fourth person into the practice line and actually
got everyone to move at once, to demo how the Hey works (which blew the
new people's minds, they were laughing at how complicated it looked
compared to when 3 of the four people had been standing still)
Then I offered those who had never done a hey before the chance to try
it with the other 3 ppl being stationary, encouraging Ravens to try from
the middle and Larks to try from an end, to simulate what they'd be
experiencing in the dance...
So that was neat, cause those who wanted to try got to try, and those
who are visual learners and felt that they got the concept just from my
demo, along with those who have already done a hey before, didn't have
to do it.... - and having two practice lines sped things up and took
attention off everyone just watching one person (I may actually do 3
practice lines in the future!)
Then when everyone got into their contra lines and we got to the Hey
part in the walk through (after a Raven's chain) I used the patter that
you all gave feedback on for a couple of walkthroughs... (but also
emphasized that you could mess up the weaving all you wanted to, and it
didn't matter as long as you got back to your partner for a bal and
swing at the end of the 16 counts - that was probably the most helpful
thing for people to grasp).
It looked a bit rough during the walkthroughs but everyone indeed made
it back "home" on time for the swing, and then as the dance progressed
everyone nailed it eventually.
During the dance I used parts of the patter sometimes, but by the end
just said "into the Hey!" and it was all good.
I enjoy that patter though - like I said our previous caller did it and
it has a nice feel to it. I got confirmation from our old caller that
he did the patter concurrently with each sub-figure of they hey, rather
than preceding them.
We do do a lot of talking at our dances, with so many beginners each
time we basically never stop calling (or maybe we let people muddle
through without calls for the very last time through some dances - but I
assure you, many people falter without the instruction!) -- anyhow I
think our group is pretty used to dancing with lots of verbiage
accompanying the music, for better or for worse :)
- thanks again!!
Learned a lot from all you wrote, and I may try Diane's approach below
in the future!!
Also loved the idea that just came in this morning to say "pass right
with nobody" at the ends, to give an idea of how to walk that final loop...
Kat in Halifax
Diane Silver via Contra Callers wrote on 2/28/2020 3:15 PM:
> Like Erik, I emphasize the loop-around as a critical part of the
> move. Presuming the preceding move is an 8-count move and there's no
> short 4-count move that needs to be called, I use the entire preceding
> 8 beats to prompt the start of the hey before it needs to happen. I
> call the general move "Hey for four" and also pre-call the descriptive
> details for how it starts. (I teach the hey emphasizing that as the
> Robins start passing right, the Larks' first move is to slide over
> into the right-hand position, and then they'll follow the Robin
> through the weaving (and of course, vice-versa if it's a left-shoulder
> hey)). Then I continue to pre-call each piece of the hey while the
> preceding piece is taking place, in 4-count chunks. Feels like patter
> calling because there's no stopping:
>
> /CAPital letters indicate calling on the downbeat, with emphasis.
> lower-case calls are like pick-up notes for the following downbeat://
> /
>
>
> Starting the call way back on beat 9 of the preceding part does not
> seem to be a problem for the dancers. They finish the move they're
> doing (often swinging) and the extra thinking time helps them end that
> move and face across to start the hey on time. I've never had anyone
> start the hey early because the beginning of the call came so early.
>
> -- Diane
>
> On 2/28/2020 1:30 PM, Erik Hoffman via Contra Callers wrote:
>>
>> One of the problems with calling heys and this type of timing is the
>> **WHILE** problem:
>>
>> While a pair is passing in the middle, someone is looping at the
>> end—a sort of “ghost” pass. New dancers often abruptly about-face
>> actually cutting off the path of the next person they’re supposed to
>> pass, and often try to pass with the “other” shoulder.
>>
>> Here’s the Robins (we’ve switched) as the Larks:
>>
>> Robins WHILE Larks
>>
>> Robins pass Right Larks Loop Left (often
>> replaced by a “pause”)
>>
>> Robins pass Larks by Left Larks pass Robins by Left
>>
>> Robins Loop Left Larks pass Right
>>
>> Robins pass Larks by Left Larks pass Robins by left
>>
>> Robins pass Right Larks Loop Left
>>
>> Robins pass Larks by Left Larks pass Robins by left
>>
>> Robins Loop Left Larks pass by Right
>>
>> Again, it’s that X Passes while Y Loops that often leads to problems.
>> Thus, if the teaching didn’t click, when I notice this problem as I
>> watch the problems dancers have I might start calling to those
>> dancers who are doing the “about-face” and call “Loop to the Left (or
>> right) to pass Left (right) Again.”
>>
>> Erik Hoffman
>>
>> *From:* Jeff Kaufman via Contra Callers
>> <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
>> *Sent:* Friday, February 28, 2020 6:50 AM
>> *To:* Katherine Kitching <kat.kitching(a)gmail.com>
>> *Cc:* contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> *Subject:* [Callers] Re: actual timing of calls for hey for four
>>
>> I don't think there's anything special about they hey: always cue
>> things so that they start on the beat after you finish speaking.
>>
>> You might find "ravens left" etc works better than "ravens pass
>> left", being shorter. Otherwise it's hard to get all the words out.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 6:06 AM Katherine Kitching via Contra Callers
>> <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> <mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> hello - first time posting to this list so i'm sorry if I do it
>> wrong (looked in archives and couldn't see obvious answer)
>>
>> I am going to teach and call my first dance with a hey this
>> Saturday.. (ie tomorrow)
>>
>> our group takes things slow so i'd like to cue every interaction
>> for the first few times, as our previous caller did.... I don't
>> know how common this is but our previous caller would actually say--
>>
>> ravens pass right
>>
>> neighbours pass left
>>
>> larks pass right
>>
>> partners left
>>
>> ravens pass right
>>
>> neighbours pass left
>>
>> larks pass right
>>
>> partner balance and swing
>>
>> I'm wondering if someone can clarify for me about delivering the
>> calls for this hey....normally of course I deliver instructions
>> so the last bit of instruction ends on the beat prior to the
>> figure starting.
>>
>> But in the case of the Hey, if I remember correctly the caller
>> actually called out the actions *as* they were happening....
>>
>> Am I remembering correctly and if so is this the best approach?
>>
>> In essence-- do I start by calling "ravens pass right" _just
>> before_ they do it, or _while_ they are doing it?
>>
>> thanks muchly :)
>>
>> Katherine Kitching in Hfx NS Canada
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Contra Callers mailing list --
>> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> <mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>
>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> <mailto:contracallers-leave@lists.sharedweight.net>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Contra Callers mailing list --contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email tocontracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Contra Callers mailing list --contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email tocontracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
