Contra Callers

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20 participants
4374 discussions

by Jim Hemphill

Great idea for a workshop for dancers, but I'm curious what the callers approach to these types of dances are. Many of the dance weekend caliber callers seem to take a very cavalier approach, often saying something like "This dance has some unusual end effects, be ready and good luck" or nothing at all. Sometimes this works out ok, sometimes not.

11 years, 11 months

End effects

by bobfab

I like doing a star for three when I am out at the end of contra corners. Call me evil.... Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G Touchcallers-request(a)sharedweight.net wrote:Send Callers mailing list submissions to callers(a)sharedweight.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to callers-request(a)sharedweight.net You can reach the person managing the list at callers-owner(a)sharedweight.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Callers digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: End Effect Rules / Patterns (Bill Olson) 2. Re: integrating new dancers (rich sbardella) 3. Regency for newbies (Andrea Nettleton) 4. Re: Regency for newbies (Alan Winston) 5. End Effect Rules for callers (Jim Hemphill) 6. Re: End Effect Rules / Patterns (Michael Fuerst) 7. Re: End Effect Rules for callers (Jack Mitchell) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 16:08:39 +0000 From: Bill Olson <callbill(a)hotmail.com> To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net> Subject: Re: [Callers] End Effect Rules / Patterns Message-ID: <BAY165-W59CD63CB4616FA8E75D398C6760(a)phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" On type #1, Rule: don't cross over immediately when waiting out, face partner and participate in dance using inevitable partner swing to change places . On type #2 Don't know if this is a rule or not, but when women chain (let's say) to couple waiting out she thinks she's still in the dance and it's the waiting out gent's responsibility to "hold her back"... (and not get drawn back into the dance himself).. Is it worth mentioning that a pair of couples waiting out at the end of a 4 facing 4 can face across and dance the dance with each other? That's "sort of" an end effect.. bill > Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 16:27:24 -0400 > From: jamitch3(a)mindspring.com > To: callers(a)sharedweight.net > Subject: [Callers] End Effect Rules / Patterns > > So...I've been thinking about trying to put together a workshop for > experienced dancerd that would consist of dances that have end effects, > but giving the dancers some rules of thumb to go on for different types > of end effects. Would be glad of some help brainstorming different > general categories of end effects (grouped by "coping mechanism"). > Here's what I can come up with off the top of my head (Corrections, > additions and clarifications welcome) > > Type: Dances where you pull by along the set or do things with one > neighbor after another > Rule: At the ends, when you don't have a neighbor, treat your partner > like your neighbor > Rule: If you have to pass by shadows to get back to your partner, go the > long way at the ends -- don't try to cut the corner > > Type: Things on the diagonal > Rule: If there's no one there, stay put and *keep dancing -- you're not > out yet* > > Type: Shadow is also neighbor > Rule: Know that Shadow will fill both roles > > Type: spit out temporarily (with partner, neighbor or shadow) and then > come back in > Rule: Dance with ghosts > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)sharedweight.net > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 10:27:42 -0700 (PDT) From: rich sbardella <richsbardella(a)snet.net> To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net> Subject: Re: [Callers] integrating new dancers Message-ID: <1372440462.13746.YahooMailClassic(a)web184705.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I dance regularly at three places in New England and the dancers at those venues?fit the description of those kind, gentle and very relaxed Californian dancers. Rich --- On Thu, 6/27/13, Tom Hinds <twhinds(a)earthlink.net> wrote: From: Tom Hinds <twhinds(a)earthlink.net> Subject: [Callers] integrating new dancers To: callers(a)sharedweight.net Date: Thursday, June 27, 2013, 8:37 AM Greg, you've been writing about integrating new dancers by getting the experienced dancers to dance with them and even teach them the figures.? For a long time I've thought that this was a bit weird- how could this ever work? Then my brain finally kicked in and I realized that we live in two very different worlds.? Although it's been some time since I called in California, I remember that the dancers there were kind, gentle and very relaxed.???They were quite a contrast to some of the dancers back east.? Maybe your method works well because of the kinds of people who live in your area.? Over the years I've seen some hostility and resentment towards new dancers in my small part of the world. In one dance community, the dancers were so hostile to the new dancers that someone started a separate dance series for the sole purpose of having a beginner friendly dance.? And before the center line was abolished at Glen Echo, a very large percentage of experienced dancers had absolutely no interest in dancing with beginners. In my area we've always had a beginning lesson and the caller always teaches the figures.? It's worked there for decades.? It's the tradition.? If it ain't broke why fix it?? I'm thinking that to get the experienced dancers to teach the figures might be detrimental in some dance communities. This is a complicated issue and involves more than language. There's also understanding people and their values, beliefs etc. etc. I can't remember exactly what your background is but I'm very interested in learning more about language and it's use.? Is there a good website or book that you could recommend? Tom _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)sharedweight.net http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 23:34:51 +0100 From: Andrea Nettleton <twirly-girl(a)bellsouth.net> To: trad-dance-callers(a)yahoogroups.com, Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net> Subject: [Callers] Regency for newbies Message-ID: <85AE677B-A215-48BB-ACEB-7C8F951C11BE(a)bellsouth.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I'm in Oxford with a group of GA Tech undergrads and the Prof who is teaching a Jane Austen class has requested that I teach them a bunch of ECD from that era, things that would really have been danced then. I don't have with me the resources I had available in the states. I need a selection of maybe a dozen dances, and a resource from which to give them interesting tidbits about etiquette, flirtation, the circumstances of a ball such as chaperones, the necessity for an introduction before inter gender conversation could occur, etc. I want something as authentic as possible, but they are all newbies and I want them to have fun. Recommendations most welcome. I have a fiddler and a Barnes book, and notes for a few dances and any I can glean from the web, unless one of my esteemed colleagues loans them to me. I'm confident about the teaching part, it is more a matter of what to present. Thanks Andrea Sent from my iPad ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 16:05:58 -0700 From: Alan Winston <winston(a)slac.stanford.edu> To: callers(a)sharedweight.net Subject: Re: [Callers] Regency for newbies Message-ID: <51CE16D6.3000606(a)slac.stanford.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On 6/28/2013 3:34 PM, Andrea Nettleton wrote: > I'm in Oxford with a group of GA Tech undergrads and the Prof who is teaching a Jane Austen class has requested that I teach them a bunch of ECD from that era, things that would really have been danced then. I don't have with me the resources I had available in the states. I need a selection of maybe a dozen dances, and a resource from which to give them interesting tidbits about etiquette, flirtation, the circumstances of a ball such as chaperones, the necessity for an introduction before inter gender conversation could occur, etc. I want something as authentic as possible, but they are all newbies and I want them to have fun. Recommendations most welcome. I have a fiddler and a Barnes book, and notes for a few dances and any I can glean from the web, unless one of my esteemed colleagues loans them to me. I'm confident about the teaching part, it is more a matter of what to present. > Thanks > Andrea > I just send Andrea a big file of dance notes off-list. That file has mid-1700s to early 1800s in it - probably too much, but I had it already made up. For Jane Austen class it's probably more apropos to do Austen's lifetime (1775-1817) than strictly Regency (1811-1820). For extremely authentic you'd be teaching them to make up dances out of building block figures. Many of the reconstructed Austen-era dances for modern dancers have been tweaked; triple minors often became three-couple sets. There's a number of 1740s or 1750s dance patterns that are very much like c.1800 dance patterns. Suggestions more closely focused on Austen's lifetime and general accessiblity, as I think of them and not in the order I would present them Haste to the Wedding (as a longways set, not Sicilian Circle) Midnight Ramble Young Widow Marlbrouk Cotillion Dover Pier Trip to Tunbridge (contra corners, similar to Chorus Jig) North Down Waltz Long Odds (requires the ability to RH turn 1.5 in four bars, which may be challenging) Physical Snob Prince William (crossover mirror hey _and_ contra corners!) Rakes of Rochester The Spaniard The Bishop (gypsy is historically questionable) Dover Pier (If your fiddler doesn't like any of those tunes - and I hear "the Bishop" can be a bear to play - it would be period practice to use the figures with a different tune.) Hope this helps! -- Alan ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 19:04:50 -0500 From: Jim Hemphill <arcadian35(a)gmail.com> To: callers(a)sharedweight.net Subject: [Callers] End Effect Rules for callers Message-ID: <CAL3h0BR23EhOAb=vG8Db04PdZEe04Bu0kSaZMkC5BrXShpVNgA(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Great idea for a workshop for dancers, but I'm curious what the callers approach to these types of dances are. Many of the dance weekend caliber callers seem to take a very cavalier approach, often saying something like "This dance has some unusual end effects, be ready and good luck" or nothing at all. Sometimes this works out ok, sometimes not. ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 21:42:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Fuerst <mjerryfuerst(a)yahoo.com> To: "jamitch3(a)mindspring.com" <jamitch3(a)mindspring.com>, Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net> Subject: Re: [Callers] End Effect Rules / Patterns Message-ID: <1372480928.50470.YahooMailNeo(a)web122202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Actually this strikes me a bad idea for a workshop. Dances with challenging end effects have such because of the interesting stuff within the dances. Dancers will not be enlightened by the ?end effects. So just do a workshop of advanced dances. Dancers just will remember at most ?one or two instruction for end effects, and it should be the most important instruction . ? For example: ? ? ? a) ?Dance around at the ends, or ? ? ? b) When out at the end, face back in with man on right, woman on left (which I do not think has been suggested yet). ? or ? ? ? c) You'll will pop in and out at the end several times If the dancers in front of the caller aren't skilled enough to handle the end effects with one or two brief items of advice, s/he should consider calling a different dance Some ideas for workshops a) ?Proper dances. ? ?? There are small number of interesting proper dances where bout couples are equally active. ?Tom Hinds probably has written the most of these. ? ?? ? ? ? ? ?Al Olson has a dance Contra Corners Special. ? ?Mark Richardson, David?Kirchner?and I have written one. ? ? ? ? ?Roger Diggle has several elegant, but uneven proper dance b) ?Quirky dances. ? ?Dances with seemingly bizarre choreography, but which are fun. ? ? ? ? ?Kirston Koths wrote quite a few of these in the 1980's ? ? ? ? ?Mike Boerschig has one called the The Fishin' Reel ? ? ? ? ?Claudio Buchwald has one, I think it's in Zesty Contras c) Quirky Formations (e.g. 1's crossed, backwards progressions, 1's start below 2's) ? Michael Fuerst ? ? ?802 N Broadway ? ? ?Urbana IL 61801?????? 217-239-5844 Links to photos of many of my drawings and paintings are at www.ArtComesFuerst.com ________________________________ From: Jack Mitchell <jamitch3(a)mindspring.com> To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net> Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2013 3:27 PM Subject: [Callers] End Effect Rules / Patterns So...I've been thinking about trying to put together a workshop for experienced dancerd that would consist of dances that have end effects, but giving the dancers some rules of thumb to go on for different types of end effects.? Would be glad of some help brainstorming different general categories of end effects (grouped by "coping mechanism").? Here's what I can come up with off the top of my head (Corrections, additions and clarifications welcome) Type: Dances where you pull by along the set or do things with one neighbor after another Rule: At the ends, when you don't have a neighbor, treat your partner like your neighbor Rule: If you have to pass by shadows to get back to your partner, go the long way at the ends -- don't try to cut the corner Type: Things on the diagonal Rule: If there's no one there, stay put and *keep dancing -- you're not out yet* Type: Shadow is also neighbor Rule: Know that Shadow will fill both roles Type: spit out temporarily (with partner, neighbor or shadow) and then come back in Rule: Dance with ghosts _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)sharedweight.net http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2013 01:33:45 -0400 From: Jack Mitchell <jamitch3(a)mindspring.com> To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net> Subject: Re: [Callers] End Effect Rules for callers Message-ID: <51CE71B9.9040402(a)mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed My goal in the workshop would be to give people tools that they can use to make sense of at least a large subset of dances with challenging end effects by trying to come up with the smallest number of general categories of end effects / coping skills possible, and avoiding having to give specific instructions for that dance -- the first time you go out wait out with the lady on the left, then wait out on the right diagonal, and such as that. While I strongly doubt that I can cover every possible type of end effect, I think that it should be possible to cover some general categories of end effect and to give folks some structure for dealing with them. I would really like to help the dancers find the patterns so that they can better cope with end effects when they come along... I'm going to sit down with some of the things that folks have posted this weekend and with my dance box and see what I can come up with. Jack On 6/28/2013 8:04 PM, Jim Hemphill wrote: > Great idea for a workshop for dancers, but I'm curious what the callers > approach to these types of dances are. Many of the dance weekend caliber > callers seem to take a very cavalier approach, often saying something like > "This dance has some unusual end effects, be ready and good luck" or > nothing at all. Sometimes this works out ok, sometimes not. > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)sharedweight.net > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers > > ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)sharedweight.net http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers End of Callers Digest, Vol 106, Issue 38 ****************************************

11 years, 11 months

Regency for newbies

by Andrea Nettleton

I'm in Oxford with a group of GA Tech undergrads and the Prof who is teaching a Jane Austen class has requested that I teach them a bunch of ECD from that era, things that would really have been danced then. I don't have with me the resources I had available in the states. I need a selection of maybe a dozen dances, and a resource from which to give them interesting tidbits about etiquette, flirtation, the circumstances of a ball such as chaperones, the necessity for an introduction before inter gender conversation could occur, etc. I want something as authentic as possible, but they are all newbies and I want them to have fun. Recommendations most welcome. I have a fiddler and a Barnes book, and notes for a few dances and any I can glean from the web, unless one of my esteemed colleagues loans them to me. I'm confident about the teaching part, it is more a matter of what to present. Thanks Andrea Sent from my iPad

11 years, 11 months

End Effect Rules / Patterns

by Jack Mitchell

So...I've been thinking about trying to put together a workshop for experienced dancerd that would consist of dances that have end effects, but giving the dancers some rules of thumb to go on for different types of end effects. Would be glad of some help brainstorming different general categories of end effects (grouped by "coping mechanism"). Here's what I can come up with off the top of my head (Corrections, additions and clarifications welcome) Type: Dances where you pull by along the set or do things with one neighbor after another Rule: At the ends, when you don't have a neighbor, treat your partner like your neighbor Rule: If you have to pass by shadows to get back to your partner, go the long way at the ends -- don't try to cut the corner Type: Things on the diagonal Rule: If there's no one there, stay put and *keep dancing -- you're not out yet* Type: Shadow is also neighbor Rule: Know that Shadow will fill both roles Type: spit out temporarily (with partner, neighbor or shadow) and then come back in Rule: Dance with ghosts

11 years, 11 months

Re: [Callers] End Effect Rules / Patterns

by Bill Olson

On type #1, Rule: don't cross over immediately when waiting out, face partner and participate in dance using inevitable partner swing to change places . On type #2 Don't know if this is a rule or not, but when women chain (let's say) to couple waiting out she thinks she's still in the dance and it's the waiting out gent's responsibility to "hold her back"... (and not get drawn back into the dance himself).. Is it worth mentioning that a pair of couples waiting out at the end of a 4 facing 4 can face across and dance the dance with each other? That's "sort of" an end effect.. bill > Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 16:27:24 -0400 > From: jamitch3(a)mindspring.com > To: callers(a)sharedweight.net > Subject: [Callers] End Effect Rules / Patterns > > So...I've been thinking about trying to put together a workshop for > experienced dancerd that would consist of dances that have end effects, > but giving the dancers some rules of thumb to go on for different types > of end effects. Would be glad of some help brainstorming different > general categories of end effects (grouped by "coping mechanism"). > Here's what I can come up with off the top of my head (Corrections, > additions and clarifications welcome) > > Type: Dances where you pull by along the set or do things with one > neighbor after another > Rule: At the ends, when you don't have a neighbor, treat your partner > like your neighbor > Rule: If you have to pass by shadows to get back to your partner, go the > long way at the ends -- don't try to cut the corner > > Type: Things on the diagonal > Rule: If there's no one there, stay put and *keep dancing -- you're not > out yet* > > Type: Shadow is also neighbor > Rule: Know that Shadow will fill both roles > > Type: spit out temporarily (with partner, neighbor or shadow) and then > come back in > Rule: Dance with ghosts > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)sharedweight.net > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers

11 years, 12 months

Re: [Callers] Thumbs

by John Sweeney

Erik said (re stars), "Many people call this the "wrist grip" form. I encourage us all to remove the word "grip" from out teaching lexicon, as gripping has led to griping, and that (IMHO) horrid no-thumb allemande... The connection is through hooks and surfaces to lean on, not through gripping. And, although I don't like the no thumb allemande, when I teach this form of star, I encourage all five fingers, thumb included, going over the top of the wrist in front - no grip." Stars: I agree entirely. "Wrist Lock", "Box", etc are MUCH better terms. Allemandes: Sorry. Why do you want someone gripping your thumb with theirs? I like to be able to spin out of Allemandes, and spin easily in Rory O'Mores without having to worry about getting someone to let go of me first. Many people grip too tightly when they use their thumb, whether it is a circle, a line, an allemande, a box the gnat or anything else. Painful and awkward! I firmly believe that thumbs should not be used, ever, for anything in dancing! :-) Happy dancing, John John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362 http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent

11 years, 12 months

Re: [Callers] First-time Contra Dancers and similar figures

by Greg McKenzie

Alan wrote: > I totally agree that we need to rely on and empower experienced dancers to > teach figures. What I'm talking about however is newcomers who seemed to > have learned the figure in the walkthrough losing it after the dance starts > and apparently unable to receive any input from caller or other dancers, > and what can be done about that. My apologies. I was not being clear in addressing your question. Earlier Alan wrote: > This is likelier to happen if both partners are new, and likeliest to >> happen if all four in that set are new. But that couple that's new will >> have that problem repeatedly. When I see that I continue to prompt the >> figures, maybe with more emphasis - Ladies CHAIN and COURTESY TURN - and >> it doesn't seem to make any difference. >> > What I was trying to say is that this problem seems to be rooted in the fact that your hall was not integrated. If all first-timers were paired with a regular then your situation would be a very different one. Instead of focusing on tactics to teach multiple couples of paired first-timers from the mike I am suggesting that we address the root cause which is the fact that the hall is not integrated. Obviously, this is more difficult when there are already couples of first-timers paired with each other. But being pro-active in your efforts to integrate the hall would solve the root problem for your next gig and would set a different tone that will allow you to demonstrate to the regulars that partnering with first-timers is very gratifying and fun. This is not, by the way, a long-term "problem" that lives in the "local dance culture." Any caller who can call precisely and clearly using effective word-order can set a tone that immediately makes it clear that the regulars have a vital role to play in welcoming and leading newcomers through the figures. This is what makes contras a "traditional" dance form. The regulars show the first-timers how it's done...not the caller. Thank you Donna and JoLaine for your ideas about integration. JoLaine wrote: > I often hear callers tell the newbies to find experienced dancers. That's > like telling a drowning person to go find a lifeguard! > This is a good point. But there are some subtle factors to keep in mind when speaking on mike that can make it more effective to speak directly to the first-timers. If you tell the regulars to pair up with first-timers you are sending out some subtle implied messages with negative consequences: - You will be indicating that you feel the regulars either do not know that there are first-timers in the room...or worse you will be indicating that you believe the regulars are not inclined to dance with first-timers and must be told to do so from the mike. This point will not be lost on the first-timers themselves, who are likely to assume that the regulars are not fond of dancing with first-timers (why else would the caller have to tell them to do it?). I prefer to address the first-timers directly and assume the full support of the regulars. The regulars already know who the first-timers are. And the first-timers need to know that it is the custom that regulars will partner with them. (The regulars already know this.) I begin my evening by saying: "If you are new to this kind of dancing please find someone who has danced for at least one night. I will tell you everything you need to know and your more experienced partner will show you all of the moves." This is a subtle point but it has to do with "leading by assumption." If you assume the support of the regulars you will get more support than by ordering them from the mike. The "at least one night" phrase authorizes everyone in the room--except first-timers--to partner with first-timers, and this makes the task seem much more manageable because there are many dancers who can help. Just a thought, Greg McKenzie West Coast, USA

11 years, 12 months

First time contra dancers

by JoLaine Jones-Pokorney

Some clarification for those that didn't read the Blog post, but just read my text in the email: When I say that the experienced dancers teach - I mean that they teach by connection, extending hands, physical cues etc. Our dance angels have agreed to keep verbal cues to a minimum. It may be a regional thing, but in general, the Florida communities are pretty good at this. If I see someone heavily involved in a verbal teaching, I may walk over and see what I can do to help, As far as telling the newbies to find experienced partners vs telling the experienced dancers to find newbies - I still stand by my original premise that we put the responsibility on the experienced dancers. If I have to weigh the very subtle message "these dancers have to be told to dance with me" against the overt message "you're on your own here new dancer and its up to you to figure out who is an experienced dancer and who isn't, and even though you've already stretched your comfort zone by making an effort to do something new in a room full of strangers, I'm going to make you stretch it even more by telling you to walk up to these strangers and ask them to dance with you." I do acknowledge that different communities would present different challenges depending on the cultural willingness to embrace newbies. I know of communities where experienced dancers would only dance with newbies under duress, and a different approach might be needed there, but I haven't called in those communities yet. -- JoLaine Jones-Pokorney "We are as gods and might as well get good at it!" - Stewart Brand

11 years, 12 months

Re: [Callers] Wave Nomenclature

by John Sweeney

Barbara G posted Nick Boulet's "Warmin' Up the Car" and started with: "start in ocean waves along the side of the set" I have always thought that an Ocean Wave was a wave of four people; in a contra they would normally be across the set. I know these terms for waves: Wave: a formation of two or more dancers holding adjacent hands and with each dancer facing in the opposite direction to that of the adjoining dancer(s). Ocean Wave: Wave for four (though in a square dance it could be from 3 to 7 people - maybe more if you do a grid square!) Tidal Wave: Wave for all along the line of the whole set (can be down the centre for just the Ladies or just the Men) Alamo (Style) Wave/Ring: Circular wave Mini Wave: Wave for two Radial Wave: Waves for two in a Circle Mixer - all the couples like the spokes of a wheel Microwave: Having described some of the above to the dancers, hold up one hand and wiggle the fingertips saying "and this is a microwave". :-) Are these universal? What other terms do people use? Happy dancing, John John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362 http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent

11 years, 12 months

choreo freedom

by Tom Hinds

Ryan Smith said: > Out of a post-swing position (Man on Left, Lady on Right) the man's > partner > can give weight and assistance for him to go into an allemande Left, > similarly the ladies partner can help her into an allemande Right. > That's > not really true for the Man doing an Allemande R or the lady doing an > Allemande Left. > > It's a small thing, but it's the reason that men usually use lefts and > ladies usually use rights (because you're usually in a post-swing > position). Breaking this convention doesn't typically ruin the > dance, but > it does make it less satisfying. I agree that there are instances where partners (and neighbors) can help each by giving weight etc. Sure, after a swing it's very useful. In my opinion, men rolling their neighbors away followed by a ladies chain is actually bad flow but It's the team work that makes that combination fun. I believe this combination would really suck without giving weight. But I have to disagree with you on the need to use outside hands in all cases. In many dances there's a forward and back followed by for example, the ladies doing an allemande left. One is Ashoken Hello. There are many ways that choreographers give dancers new combinations instead of the same old thing. Allemandes with 'the other hand' after forward and back is just one example. I too have the ladies allemande left in 3-33-33 but it's after a forward and back, not after a swing. If you're dancing with someone who is absolutely clueless simply take her left or his right and lead it into the center of the set. I don't see using 'the other hand' as a problem for those with any experience or ability. If you have many dancers who don't have the skills, then calling 3-33-33 is probably a bad idea no matter which ending you use. tom

11 years, 12 months

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Contra Callers