"Hand cast" is definitely a thing I've heard, but only in the context of a couple down the middle and back and cast off (which was not at all unknown in the 80s when I started contra dancing (though more a feature of chestnut contras) , but hasn't turned up too much since. In contra, the actives casting off was definitely something they did with the inactives. You could do an eyes-only cast off or an arm around the waist cast off or a hand cast.) In any case, at the end of the cast off the actives had progressed and everybody was facing partner. I think the hand cast tended to be 1s up the middle until between the 2s, who also face up and take the handy hand with the nearest 1. 2s backing up strongly as 1s go forward strongly, go 3/4 around until facing partner in progressed place. The mechanics of a gate in English dance are pretty much the same - both people facing the same way, one moves as strongly back as the other forward around a pivot point at the hands.) [It seems to be that back in the 80s there wasn't as much emphasis on the equality of the turns; one person could be a gatepost and pivot in place while the other more or less orbited around them. That doesn't seem to be how it's taught now, so modern American English gates and contra hand casts are about the same. In my personal idiolect, hand casts go with casting off, which implies somebody coming up the middle and symmetrical casting. (The gates in "The Bishop" are 360 degree hand casts, no question.) Gates (in the 21st century) are more flexible. You can have asymmetric gates (in improper formation circle left once round and neighbors gate around with the ladies going forward and the gents backing up (as in Madeira Dream or Woodshed, or in contra in Susan Kevra's "Circle of Love" ); you can describe the moment in Bellamira when the 1s proper lead down, turn alone, lead up and turn as couple to finish improper facing down as a gate but nobody's casting anywhere; the opening moments of "Come Let's Be Merry" (1s face up, take inside hand, gent backs round and lady forward) are gates, but I don't think they're hand casts. So according to me, the hand cast is an instance of the class of gate turns limited to being a cast off with hands. The class of gate turns includes many things that aren't hand casts. If I'd been on the floor and you called the move you describe a hand cast, it would have taken me longer to understand it, but I wouldn't have tried to argue from the floor that you were calling it the wrong thing - that's just rude. If I were calling it I would have called it a gate. I seem recall Sarah vanNorstrand at BACDS American dance week calling a dance with a symmetrical turn of this class that maybe could have legitimately been callend a hand cast and she called it a gate, so your dancer and I are not the only ones with this opinion. -- Alan On 10/7/18 10:20 PM, Don Veino via Callers wrote: You may have seen my "Feeling Gravity's Pull" which I posted at the end of the recent Mad Robin teaching thread. In that dance, there's a move where partners are facing in side by side on the outside of the set (where the Gents have forward momentum and the Ladies neutral to backward momentum) and my intent was for them to rotate around their inside hand connection with the Gents going forward and Ladies backing up once around. (As opposed to the Gent walks a circle around the Lady.) So the net effect would be like a courtesy turn, in going around a central point between the dancers, just a little "wider." I believe the correct term for this would be "Hand Cast" but I had a dancer who was adamant about it being a "Gate" in ECD so when I posted the dance that's the term I used. I've again done some googling and found no ready reference to a "Hand Cast" in ECD and only the slightest in a contra context, yet the term sticks in my mind. What say ye? Is "Hand Cast" a thing and correct in this context? Thanks, Don _______________________________________________ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/

Hi Don, Alan said most of it already. You could potentially use any of Gate, Wheel, Wheel Around, Assisted Cast, Hand Cast, Hand Cast Off, Turn as a Couple! From Zesty Contras: Hand Cast Off: Often shortened to “hand cast”, even though it is assisted. Dancers, hand in hand and with strong connection, follow the same path as in any conventional cast off. Cast Off: As described in B&S. Note that two couples always participate, usually with connection between them. In CAST AROUND, by contrast, those casting do not have connection with another couple and any movement by another couple is usually stated explicitly. CAST OFF: In a contra or triplet, a method of progression which can be danced in several ways. Most commonly, an active couple come up the center of the set until they are between the appropriate inactive couple and all four dancers face up. Each active dancer and the adjacent inactive dancer turn side by side three-quarters round, with the active dancer moving forward and the inactive dancer moving backward, until both dancers are in a line facing in, the active couple now below the inactives. In an ARM-AROUND CAST OFF two dancers place their near arms around each other’s waists during the turn and in a HAND CAST OFF two dancers join near hands at shoulder height with elbows down. Either of these casts may also be referred to as an ASSISTED CAST OFF. We also have an Assisted Cast Off wherein the inactives put their hand on their hip and offer their elbow for the active to hook onto; this is more common in dances with a Gallop where there is a lot of momentum to redirect. You also could use “Wheel”, which B&S defines as “The same as TURN AS A COUPLE”. TURN AS A COUPLE: A pair of dancers with nearest hands joined reverse direction by rotating as a unit, with the right hand person moving forward as the left hand person backs around. This movement is usually done in four counts of music. In a popular variation some dancers prefer to turn as a couple by having the lady go under their upraised joined hands as both dancers move forward. <<That is, of course, now much more common and known as a California Twirl!>> We tend to say “Wheel Around” rather than just “Wheel” these days, and indeed Modern Western Square Dance defines: Wheel Around Dance action: The couple, working as a unit, turns around to the left (180 degrees). The left-side dancer backs up while the right-side dancer moves forward. The pivot point is the handhold between the two dancers. MWSD also has: Cast Off 3/4 Historically, Wilson (1820) used Cast Off where we, today, would now just say Cast, to get the #1s to turn up and out and head down the outside of the set. But, ignoring Wilson, I would suggest that the key difference between a Gate and a (Hand) Cast (Off) is that in a Hand Cast one person has some significant momentum to redirect and the other starts stationary, while in a Gate both people start from similar (not necessarily identical) states. A Wheel Around tends to be 180 degrees, a Hand Cast tends to be 270 degrees, and you are going for 360 degrees. So, I would say that, in your dance, Gate would be the best word to use; Hand Cast, while basically the same, is not quite the right term and is rarely used these days. Happy dancing, John John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com <mailto:john@modernjive.com> 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 574 http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive Events & DVDs http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent From: Callers &lt;callers-bounces(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:callers-bounces@lists.sharedweight.net> > On Behalf Of Don Veino via Callers Sent: 08 October 2018 06:21 To: Caller's discussion list &lt;callers(a)sharedweight.net <mailto:callers@sharedweight.net> > Subject: [Callers] Gate vs Hand Cast You may have seen my "Feeling Gravity's Pull" which I posted at the end of the recent Mad Robin teaching thread. In that dance, there's a move where partners are facing in side by side on the outside of the set (where the Gents have forward momentum and the Ladies neutral to backward momentum) and my intent was for them to rotate around their inside hand connection with the Gents going forward and Ladies backing up once around. (As opposed to the Gent walks a circle around the Lady.) So the net effect would be like a courtesy turn, in going around a central point between the dancers, just a little "wider." I believe the correct term for this would be "Hand Cast" but I had a dancer who was adamant about it being a "Gate" in ECD so when I posted the dance that's the term I used. I've again done some googling and found no ready reference to a "Hand Cast" in ECD and only the slightest in a contra context, yet the term sticks in my mind. What say ye? Is "Hand Cast" a thing and correct in this context? Thanks, Don