21 Apr
2018
21 Apr
'18
10:05 p.m.
I was recently thinking about star to star transitions. There are lots of
great dances that go star 1x to opposite hand star 1x (such as Lisa
Greenleaf's "Poetry in Motion", Robert Cromartie's "Al's
Safeway Produce",
Linda Leslie's "Burlington Spirit"...); and then there are the star ->
same
hand star dances (Mike Richardson's "Star Trek", my "Voyager",
Dugan
Murphey's "The Next Generation"...)
Are there dances that use star just half way -> with next, opposite hand
star 1/2 way? I'm envisioning something with a bit of a zig-zag feel, but
that could be done in crowded dance halls where you don't want folks
swooping out laterally (like John Coffman's "Boys of Urbana"), but more
connected than a single file promenade snake like Cary Ravitz's "March of
the Coffee Zombies".
Are there already dances out there like this?
Switchback Stars
Improper, single progression
A1
With #1 Neighbors, Left Hand star 1/2x
With #2 Neighbors, Right Hand star 1/2
With #3 Neighbor, left shoulder gyre 1x
A2
With #2 Neighbor, right shoulder gyre and swing (now current neighbors)
B1
Circle Left 3/4
Partner Swing
B2
Ladies chain across to neighbor
Long Lines forward and back
If so, how do they handle the timing?
And for that dance (assuming it doesn't already exist), would you prefer it
as written above, or shifted to put the progression in B2?
Switchback Stars + 16B
Improper, single progression
A1
With Neighbor, right shoulder gyre and swing
A2
Circle Left 3/4
Partner Swing
B1
Ladies chain across to neighbor
Long Lines forward and back
B2
With #1 Neighbors, Left Hand star 1/2x
With #2 Neighbors, Right Hand star 1/2
With #3 Neighbor, left shoulder gyre 1x
come back to Neighbor #2, now current neighbor
--
Luke Donforth
Luke.Donforth(a)gmail.com <Luke.Donev(a)gmail.com>
22 Apr
22 Apr
9:48 a.m.
Just a heads-up.
There's a number of ECD dances, especially 4-couple set dances, that have a
sequence of progressive 1/2 stars.
When teaching them, I find them to be the hardest part of the dance for dancers,
and where it's most likely to break down.
So the difficulty level may be more than you expect.
-Chris Page
San Diego
On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 7:05 PM, Luke Donforth via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I was recently thinking about star to star
transitions. There are lots of
great dances that go star 1x to opposite hand star 1x (such as Lisa
Greenleaf's "Poetry in Motion", Robert Cromartie's "Al's
Safeway Produce",
Linda Leslie's "Burlington Spirit"...); and then there are the star ->
same
hand star dances (Mike Richardson's "Star Trek", my "Voyager",
Dugan
Murphey's "The Next Generation"...)
Are there dances that use star just half way -> with next, opposite hand
star 1/2 way? I'm envisioning something with a bit of a zig-zag feel, but
that could be done in crowded dance halls where you don't want folks
swooping out laterally (like John Coffman's "Boys of Urbana"), but more
connected than a single file promenade snake like Cary Ravitz's "March of
the Coffee Zombies".
Are there already dances out there like this?
_______________________________________________
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List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
11:10 a.m.
Luke,
A couple of concerns about your dance:
- Second version: Your dance appears to be reverse progression, if you
begin the left hand stars with the neighbor you just swung. It's not
entirely clear though (that neighbor isn't numbered).
- First version: If instead you force the progression to be in the normal
direction in the first version, note that you're already progressed past
neighbor #2 after the swing and chain, so it becomes a double progression.
Other than that, it looks like a fairly simple setting of star-halfway to
star-halfway. I believe there will be end effects though, meaning sometimes
you come in with the gent on the right and lady on the left. It looks like
you have about 4 counts for each star, which looks right to me.
One well-known dance that makes use of a star-halfway to star-halfway
figure is Dutch Crossing. However, its mechanics are slightly different
from most contras (including mine below) since the stars meet at the
corners instead of the sides.
You may be interested in my 4-facing-4 dance Constellation:
A1:
lines of 4 forward and back
(in groups of 4) ladies chain up/down
A2:
(in groups of 4) left hand star 1/2
(center 4) right hand star 1/2
(in groups of 4) left hand star 1/2
(center 4) right hand star 1/2
B1:
N balance, swing (the one you chained to)
B2:
(in groups of 4) circle left 3/4; P swing, face the next
[The timing for star halfway is 4 counts.]
Despite the simplicity of the instructions, it's a hard dance because of
the stars halfway, as Chris alludes to. Here are some of the places that
dancers can get lost:
- You're traveling through the stars as a group with your partner, and the
gent is always in the lead (changes stars first). If you miss a star
transition, it's not really recoverable until the balance and swing. So if
you and your partner don't get it, you just end up having a bad time.
- As in most 4 facing 4s, your pattern alternates each time through.
- How far is halfway? It's sooner than you think, especially for the gents.
If it takes 1-2 counts to switch between stars, you only get to spend 2-3
counts actually holding each star.
- When you're not in the center group of 4, you and your partner have to
stay put, but you should remain improper and not try to change places.
- There could be some confusion with the switch in orientation from up/down
to across the hall in the first star.
As the caller, when prompting this, timing is very tight - basically as
soon as the dancers enter one star, you have to start prompting the next.
The band also has to pick a suitable tune with short phrases.
Cheers,
Yoyo Zhou
On Sun, Apr 22, 2018 at 6:48 AM, Chris Page via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Just a heads-up.
There's a number of ECD dances, especially 4-couple set dances, that have a
sequence of progressive 1/2 stars.
When teaching them, I find them to be the hardest part of the dance for
dancers,
and where it's most likely to break down.
So the difficulty level may be more than you expect.
-Chris Page
San Diego
On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 7:05 PM, Luke Donforth via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I was recently thinking about star to star
transitions. There are lots of
great dances that go star 1x to opposite hand star 1x (such as Lisa
Greenleaf's "Poetry in Motion", Robert Cromartie's "Al's
Safeway
Produce",
Linda Leslie's "Burlington
Spirit"...); and then there are the star ->
same
hand star dances (Mike Richardson's
"Star Trek", my "Voyager", Dugan
Murphey's "The Next Generation"...)
Are there dances that use star just half way -> with next, opposite hand
star 1/2 way? I'm envisioning something with a bit of a zig-zag feel, but
that could be done in crowded dance halls where you don't want folks
swooping out laterally (like John Coffman's "Boys of Urbana"), but more
connected than a single file promenade snake like Cary Ravitz's "March of
the Coffee Zombies".
Are there already dances out there like this?
_______________________________________________
List Name: Callers mailing list
List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
_______________________________________________
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List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
11:12 a.m.
I have an English dance that has a similar sequence, with one half star,
then a full star with new neighbors and another full star back with
original neighbors. As Chris suggests, I find that part a bit trickier to
teach than I expected. The difficulty is in the orientation (particularly
on the ends), not the timing. I set the dance to a half-length version of
Larry Unger's *Two Rivers *which is in waltz time, so the timing could be
different in contra. I think the hands-across style star used in most
English dances facilitates that kind of transition. I think it creates the
nice flow pattern you envision, looking forward to trying it. Nice idea,
Luke!
Here is the similar sequence in waltz time: http://dancevideos.childgrove.
org/ecd/ecd-modern/308-starring-loretta
Bob Green
St. Louis
11:55 a.m.
See also Franklin flank by nils Fredland for similar (allenandes to star to Allemande,
similar feel) and Carol Ormand’s Double Dare.
As is said, half stars are devilishly tricky.
Perhaps someone has fabulous teaching tips with half stars?
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 22, 2018, at 10:13 AM, Bob Green via Callers
<callers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
wrote:
I have an English dance that has a similar sequence, with one half star, then a full star
with new neighbors and another full star back with original neighbors. As Chris suggests,
I find that part a bit trickier to teach than I expected. The difficulty is in the
orientation (particularly on the ends), not the timing. I set the dance to a half-length
version of Larry Unger's Two Rivers which is in waltz time, so the timing could be
different in contra. I think the hands-across style star used in most English dances
facilitates that kind of transition. I think it creates the nice flow pattern you
envision, looking forward to trying it. Nice idea, Luke!
Here is the similar sequence in waltz time:
http://dancevideos.childgrove.org/ecd/ecd-modern/308-starring-loretta
Bob Green
St. Louis
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7:19 p.m.
No disrespect, but ....
This reminds me of a few decades back when a particular programming
language introduced some instructions with "WICKED", (I mean WICKED!)
side effects.
What ensued were many discussions about how to handle these instructions.
Whereupon one of my colleagues came up with what proved to be the wisest
advice of all...
Do Not Use.
(Of course, some even wiser folk will immediately realize that these are
PERFECT gems to save for special events....
Like April 1.)
(I recall Jim Popson had a library of such gems with missing beats,
added beats and even extra phrases....)
http://keftimes.org/wp-content/uploads/Godecki-Cacak-thread-EEFC-listserv-1…
(I realize this was a different culture, but you'd be surprised how they
overlap.)
Bill In HI
Tepfer, Seth via Callers wrote:
See also Franklin flank by nils Fredland for similar
(allenandes to
star to Allemande, similar feel) and Carol Ormand’s Double Dare.
As is said, half stars are devilishly tricky.
Perhaps someone has fabulous teaching tips with half stars?
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 22, 2018, at 10:13 AM, Bob Green via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
I have an English dance that has a similar
sequence, with one half
star, then a full star with new neighbors and another full star back
with original neighbors. As Chris suggests, I find that part a bit
trickier to teach than I expected. The difficulty is in the
orientation (particularly on the ends), not the timing. I set the
dance to a half-length version of Larry Unger's /Two Rivers /which is
in waltz time, so the timing could be different in contra. I think
the hands-across style star used in most English dances facilitates
that kind of transition. I think it creates the nice flow pattern you
envision, looking forward to trying it. Nice idea, Luke!
Here is the similar sequence in waltz time:
http://dancevideos.childgrove.org/ecd/ecd-modern/308-starring-loretta
<http://dancevideos.childgrove.org/ecd/ecd-modern/308-starring-loretta>
Bob Green
St. Louis
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List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
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------------------------------------------------------------------------
This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of
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recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution
or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly
prohibited.
If you have received this message in error, please contact
the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the
original message (including attachments).
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2:08 p.m.
I have called Starring Loretta as well as many ECD with half stars and concur that it is a
harder move for dancers than one would expect. This may be a muscle memory issue. It feels
more like a four hand pull by than a star because there's no sense of rotation. The
move is more linear than circular.
-------- Original message --------From: Bob Green via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> Date: 4/22/18 11:12 AM (GMT-05:00) To: Chris Page
<chriscpage(a)gmail.com> Cc: "Callers(a)Lists.Sharedweight.net"
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> Subject: Re: [Callers] Star 1/2 -> Star 1/2?
I have an English dance that has a similar sequence, with one half star, then a full star
with new neighbors and another full star back with original neighbors. As Chris suggests,
I find that part a bit trickier to teach than I expected. The difficulty is in the
orientation (particularly on the ends), not the timing. I set the dance to a half-length
version of Larry Unger's Two Rivers which is in waltz time, so the timing could be
different in contra. I think the hands-across style star used in most English dances
facilitates that kind of transition. I think it creates the nice flow pattern you
envision, looking forward to trying it. Nice idea, Luke!
Here is the similar sequence in waltz time:
http://dancevideos.childgrove.org/ecd/ecd-modern/308-starring-loretta
Bob Green
St. Louis
12:13 p.m.
Yes, several English country dances have this; the move is sometimes called “falling
stars” (when there are 3 or 4 in a row). I think the difficulty comes from people not
expecting to move on to a new couple after just 4 counts—we’re used to doing things that
only take 4 counts, but moving to a new couple in the middle of a phrase is rare. I see
teaching that says “look where you are at the beginning and think where you’ll be half-way
‘round” but it doesn’t seem to help much; focusing on “you’ll be with new people in just 4
steps” may work better.
Read Weaver
Jamaica Plain, MA
http://lcfd.org
On Apr 22, 2018, at 9:48 AM, Chris Page via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Just a heads-up.
There's a number of ECD dances, especially 4-couple set dances, that have a
sequence of progressive 1/2 stars.
When teaching them, I find them to be the hardest part of the dance for dancers,
and where it's most likely to break down.
So the difficulty level may be more than you expect.
-Chris Page
San Diego
On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 7:05 PM, Luke Donforth via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> I was recently thinking about star to star transitions. There are lots of
> great dances that go star 1x to opposite hand star 1x (such as Lisa
> Greenleaf's "Poetry in Motion", Robert Cromartie's "Al's
Safeway Produce",
> Linda Leslie's "Burlington Spirit"...); and then there are the star
-> same
> hand star dances (Mike Richardson's "Star Trek", my
"Voyager", Dugan
> Murphey's "The Next Generation"...)
>
> Are there dances that use star just half way -> with next, opposite hand
> star 1/2 way? I'm envisioning something with a bit of a zig-zag feel, but
> that could be done in crowded dance halls where you don't want folks
> swooping out laterally (like John Coffman's "Boys of Urbana"), but
more
> connected than a single file promenade snake like Cary Ravitz's "March of
> the Coffee Zombies".
>
> Are there already dances out there like this?
10:48 a.m.
You caught me with that question!
I have a Sicilian Circle from Margo Gunzenhauser called "5 O'Clock Circle".
You could, of
course do it in contra lines but the end effects would be disasterous, rather more than
the
dance you propose. Margo's dance (likely learned from Ted Sanella) is as follows;
A1 Right Star 1/2 / Next Neighbors Left Star 1/2
Next Neighbors Right Star 1/2 / Next Neighbors Left Star 1/2
A2 With the SAME Neighbors, Circle RIGHT once all around
This neighbor D.S.D.
B1 Same Neighbor(s) Star Thru (balance using inside hands and twirl to swap)
ending facing original line of direction.
Same Neighbors Circle Left once around
B2 Balance ring, Partner Swing
Next round starts with same Neighbors from A2 above.
Have fun and keep reinventing the wheel!
John McIntire
Unity ME
On Saturday, April 21, 2018 11:05:03 PM ADT Luke Donforth via Callers wrote:
I was recently thinking about star to star
transitions. There are lots of
great dances that go star 1x to opposite hand star 1x (such as Lisa
Greenleaf's "Poetry in Motion", Robert Cromartie's "Al's
Safeway Produce",
Linda Leslie's "Burlington Spirit"...); and then there are the star ->
same
hand star dances (Mike Richardson's "Star Trek", my "Voyager",
Dugan
Murphey's "The Next Generation"...)
Are there dances that use star just half way -> with next, opposite hand
star 1/2 way? I'm envisioning something with a bit of a zig-zag feel, but
that could be done in crowded dance halls where you don't want folks
swooping out laterally (like John Coffman's "Boys of Urbana"), but more
connected than a single file promenade snake like Cary Ravitz's "March of
the Coffee Zombies".
Are there already dances out there like this?
Switchback Stars
Improper, single progression
A1
With #1 Neighbors, Left Hand star 1/2x
With #2 Neighbors, Right Hand star 1/2
With #3 Neighbor, left shoulder gyre 1x
A2
With #2 Neighbor, right shoulder gyre and swing (now current neighbors)
B1
Circle Left 3/4
Partner Swing
B2
Ladies chain across to neighbor
Long Lines forward and back
If so, how do they handle the timing?
And for that dance (assuming it doesn't already exist), would you prefer it
as written above, or shifted to put the progression in B2?
Switchback Stars + 16B
Improper, single progression
A1
With Neighbor, right shoulder gyre and swing
A2
Circle Left 3/4
Partner Swing
B1
Ladies chain across to neighbor
Long Lines forward and back
B2
With #1 Neighbors, Left Hand star 1/2x
With #2 Neighbors, Right Hand star 1/2
With #3 Neighbor, left shoulder gyre 1x
come back to Neighbor #2, now current neighbor
--
Luke Donforth
Luke.Donforth(a)gmail.com <Luke.Donev(a)gmail.com>
2:41 p.m.
On 2018-04-21 10:05 PM, Luke Donforth via Callers wrote:
Are there dances that use star just half way -> with next, opposite hand
star 1/2 way?
Yup. Restricting to duple minors, there's:
(longways:)
"Complexity and Confusion" by Lynn Douglas
Zesty Contras, p41
"Contraindicated" by Keith Wood
http://keith-wood.name/mydances.html#Contraindicated
"Elegance and Simplicity" by trad
Zesty Contras, #207
"A Fuerst Second Third Time's the Charm" by Michael Fuerst
(second star is actually 3/4)
http://aptsg.org/Dance/dances.html#Fuerst
"Last of the Hitchikers" by Geoff Cubitt
http://www.geoffcubitt.com/dances.htm#hitch
"Move Old Birgit" by Kjeld Rasmussen
http://www.grandsquare.dk/alle/index.php?menu=5&id=2036
"Pleasantly Surprised" by David Smukler
http://davidsmukler.syracusecountrydancers.org/dances-i-have-created/#surpr…
"The Wingman" by Don Armstrong
New Century Collection, p44
(sicilian:)
"Five O'Clock Circle" by Margot Gunzenhauser
Square & Fair, p50
"Grand Star Circle" by Rod Linnell
Square Dances from a Yankee Caller's Clipboard, p 46
Zesty Contras, #828
New Century Collection p12
"The Grand Star of Sicily" by Inga Morton
Square Dance Century, p38
"A Grand Starry Night" by Ron Coxall
"Hurry Old Birgit" by Kjeld Rasmussen
http://www.grandsquare.dk/alle/index.php?menu=5&id=2136
"Star Circle" by Bruce Merritt
Swing the Next, p172
"Westwind Waltz" by Don Armstrong
Dance Workbook, p72
-Michael
2405
days inactive
2405
days old
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
9 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
billinhi＠gmail.com -
Bob Green -
Chris Page -
hgrastorf -
John McIntire -
Luke Donforth -
Michael Dyck -
Read Weaver -
Tepfer, Seth -
Yoyo Zhou