9 Oct
2019
9 Oct
'19
1 p.m.
Adam,
I guess Google is Too Hard for some?
Re: evocative nature of terms.
"Box the gnat", "hey", "chain", etc all aren't
evocative, either. Swing may
be. I love how "right shoulder round" is self explanatory.
I want to underline the excellent point you made about rhyming. "Oh, we
can't SAY that word, but we'll think it. Wink."
Best,
Ron
On Wed, Oct 9, 2019, 9:57 AM Adam Carlson <adam_carlson(a)pobox.com> wrote:
Ron,
I was halfway through a long, researched response explaining why it is a
slur, why just because a particular caller hasn't been personally
confronted at one of their dances they shouldn't assume it's not, and why
the origins of the term, while pertinent are not the whole story on how we
should approach it today when Isaac, in one short paragraph, provided a
much more effective response than mine would ever be. In researching I was
pleasantly surprised by number of good references in the wikipedia article
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_the_Romani_people. I found it by
googling "gypsy usage as a slur" which also turned up a lot of useful
material.
I'd love to see your article when you're done.
BTW, I'm really saddened that the term "right shoulder round" has become
the standard replacement for gypsy. It's about as evocative as "modified
ballroom position paired rotation" is for swing and takes too long to say.
I really liked pixie when it was popular, just because I like the word, and
I like two-eye turn, though it doesn't make much sense unless you know what
a two-hand turn is, which many contra dancers don't these days. (Pixie
doesn't make any sense, but it doesn't purport to.) I've never tried
Look-See, which is appealing, but maybe too cute by half, and I fear won't
come across well on PAs. Though pixie and look-see are both phonetic
references back to gypsy. They just rhyme, so it's a way of referring back
to the tainted word. It'd be like if someone who was racist but didn't want
to offend people with the N word went around talking about "those jiggers".
Cheers,
Adam
On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 7:56 AM Ron Blechner via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I am working on a shared document, if only
because it takes a lot of time
and work to educate people and I'd like a resource with lots of links that
people can easily share. If you'd like to positively contribute, please
email me directly contraron at gmail dot com.
It's the 21st century. We're smart people who love history, right?
"G*psy" has its etymology back to mistaking olive-skinned peoples from
India and Persia for Egyptians. It's _always_ been a racial term, and it's
always been a slang that was put on Romany. While some groups have
reclaimed the term, this is not the majority, and, like f*ggot to LGBTQ
people, or the N word to Africans and African Americans, the word simply
isn't white people's word, even if someone has "given you permission"
to
use it.
When Cecil Sharp introduced it, so far research I've seen shows he didn't
use "gip" it in the racial sense. It was a Morris dance word that had no
roots in Romance languages. Sometime after in the 20th century, probably
because of homonym confusion, other callers and dancers assumed it was
"g*psy".
Romancing nomadicism:
So, y'all have Jewish friends, right?
You all know the diaspora, and thousands of years of nomadicism by Jews
was _forced_, right?
You know that it was forced because of racism and anti-Semitism, and Jews
have suffered greatly, culminating in the Holocaust, right?
It's nearly identical to Romany oppression. Their nomadicism has been
forced. They have the same myths, same racist stereotypes of baby stealing
and dark magic. They've been denied citizenship and forced to relocate
century after century in Europe. They suffered over a million deaths in the
Holocaust.
Why, then, would we romanticize their forced nomadicism?
In dance,
Ron Blechner
On Tue, Oct 8, 2019, 9:16 AM Isaac Banner via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Hey Jeff,
Not **us** non-roma folk, thank you. My family on my mother's side were
a part of the culture and none of us appreciate the folks telling us not to
worry and that we don't need to be offended.
Isaav
On Tue, Oct 8, 2019, 8:10 AM Jeffrey Spero via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
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But Isaac… isn’t that what people on BOTH sides
of the issue are doing?
There are VERY few Roma in the contra community, and we’ve heard from very
few overall on this issue. Mostly it’s just us non-Roma folk arguing
amongst ourselves about what WE perceive how a majority of the Roma people
feel about this. And that does apply to people who are both for and
against using the term “gypsy” to describe a contradance move. Aren’t we
ALL saying what is right or wrong for people who are from another heritage?
And now I am bowing out of this controversy as it seems never-ending
and very divisive.
Jeff
> On Oct 8, 2019, at 5:57 AM, Isaac Banner via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> Hey John,
>
> If the N word was also a move that somehow wasn't connected to the
slur, you wouldn't dare argue that it's different or that you should get to
call it, so drop the argument please. Just because you don't think I should
be offended about the word and how it reflects on my heritage doesn't mean
you get to dictate whether I actually am. I would ask you not to decide for
others how they ought to experience and respect their racial identity,
thanks.
>
> Isaac
>
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