I spaced out when I wrote my earlier e-mail. I was thinking that the
balance would be after beat 16 in the B2 of 30 year jig. It would
actually be after beat 8. So, the dancers would be able to hear
where to balance after all. It's while they are swinging that the
melody is a bit crazy. It also occured to me that the beginning of
the hey would occur where the melody is crazy as well but this
shouldn't be such a big problem.
Tom
On Jul 12, 2009, at 12:00 PM, callers-request(a)sharedweight.net wrote:
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> 1. Re: 40 bar dances (David Millstone) (Bobfab(a)aol.com)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 09:44:10 EDT
> From: Bobfab(a)aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Callers] 40 bar dances (David Millstone)
> To: callers(a)sharedweight.net
> Message-ID: <d30.4f659e88.378b42aa(a)aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> HI Chris,
> Nils Fredland called "Major Hey" for us at a Rochester dance and it
> was a
> blast!
> Needs some experienced dancers to keep it together:
>
> Double Becket, 40 Bar
> A1: Circle 3/4, Pass thru and Swing the one you meet
> A2: Lines F&B
> Gents Allemande Left 1+1/2 to waves of 8 (partner in right
> hand)
> B1: Balance R, L, Slide R
> Balance L, R, Slide L, face partner (looking along lines of
> 8 across
> hall)
> B2: Hey for 8 (Partner by right, ...)
> C: Balance and Swing Partner
>
> There's a shadow couple in the hey, and if the hall is crowded,
> have people
> "tag" at the end of the hey, so the next person knows not to
> continue into
> the
> next set!
>
> Bob Fabinski
> Rochester, NY
>
>> Hey,
>>
>> A band I'm working with would like to play their favorite 40 bar jig
>> (AA=8+8 plus BB=12+12) at a dance sometime. I was wondering if anyone
>> had dances for this format and what their experience was calling
>> them.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Chris Weiler
>> Goffstown, NH
>
>
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> End of Callers Digest, Vol 59, Issue 8
> **************************************
Major Hey looks like a great dance! Thanks for sharing it. I'll
definetly try to use it the next time I call. I would however advise
Chris and others to think twice about using Major Hey with the tune,
30 year jig.
There are two reasons. Both the B1 and the B2 are 24 beats each.
So, the hey would be split between the B1 and the B2. Not the way to
match a dance to a tune but not the end of the world either.
The more important reason is the music itself. The first 8 beats of
both the B1 and B2 fit together well in an easily recognizable
phrase. The melody in the remaining 12 beats is tricky. The music
is not in easily recognizable phrases of 8 for sure. It's hard to
tell where the end of the second set of 8 beats end. I don't think
the dancers would find the right place to balance. It's not
impossible for them to balance in the right place especially if they
count. But for me it's not fun to have to count the beats so that I
can dance a particular dance. The music wouldn't support this
particular dance.
Tom Hinds
On Jul 12, 2009, at 12:00 PM, callers-request(a)sharedweight.net wrote:
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> 1. Re: 40 bar dances (David Millstone) (Bobfab(a)aol.com)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 09:44:10 EDT
> From: Bobfab(a)aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Callers] 40 bar dances (David Millstone)
> To: callers(a)sharedweight.net
> Message-ID: <d30.4f659e88.378b42aa(a)aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> HI Chris,
> Nils Fredland called "Major Hey" for us at a Rochester dance and it
> was a
> blast!
> Needs some experienced dancers to keep it together:
>
> Double Becket, 40 Bar
> A1: Circle 3/4, Pass thru and Swing the one you meet
> A2: Lines F&B
> Gents Allemande Left 1+1/2 to waves of 8 (partner in right
> hand)
> B1: Balance R, L, Slide R
> Balance L, R, Slide L, face partner (looking along lines of
> 8 across
> hall)
> B2: Hey for 8 (Partner by right, ...)
> C: Balance and Swing Partner
>
> There's a shadow couple in the hey, and if the hall is crowded,
> have people
> "tag" at the end of the hey, so the next person knows not to
> continue into
> the
> next set!
>
> Bob Fabinski
> Rochester, NY
>
>> Hey,
>>
>> A band I'm working with would like to play their favorite 40 bar jig
>> (AA=8+8 plus BB=12+12) at a dance sometime. I was wondering if anyone
>> had dances for this format and what their experience was calling
>> them.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Chris Weiler
>> Goffstown, NH
>
>
> **************
> Looking for love this summer? Find it now on
> AOL Personals. (http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove00000003)
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> End of Callers Digest, Vol 59, Issue 8
> **************************************
--- "The Witful Turnip" wrote:
Is it 8 [beats]+ 12 = 20 / 2 = 10 bars?? Is that the conversion?? "30 year Jig"
would be 8 + 16 = 24 / 2 = 12 bars.... So, are straight contra dance tunes 32
bar tunes ? (8 + 8 = 16 / 2 = 8 * 4 = 32). If my conversion theory is correct,
that would make Cherokee Shuffle a
36 bar tune, and 30 Year Jig a 40 bar tune. Am I understanding this
correctly?
--- end of quote ---
Yes.
Typically in "our" kind of music-- the jigs and reels that are commonly played
for contras dances-- dancers would walk two steps for each bar of music. (A
"bar" is more formally referred to as a "measure," and at the end of each
measure of music, when you look at a printed staff, there's a vertical line,
known as a bar.)
David "cleansed from egg on face" Millstone
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 05:46:50 -0400
From: "Chris Weiler (home)" <chris.weiler(a)weirdtable.org>
Subject: Re: [Callers] 40 bar dances
>Found it on YouTube:
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L0IFo7LVok
Thanks for posting this Chris. It is a great tune. But I clearly have some
bars to beat/count confusion going. I count this tune as follows:
A1: 8, 8
A2: 8, 8
B1: 8, 16
B2: 8, 16
David Millstone made a comment <and no wiping of egg required> that the
Cherokee Shuffle tune in the B part is 10 bars long, not 12. But if I count
it as..
A1: 8, 8
A2: 8, 8
B1: 8, 12
B2: 8, 12
How do I get to the 10 bars??? Is it 8 + 12 = 20 / 2 = 10 bars?? Is that
the conversion?? "30 year Jig" would be 8 + 16 = 24 / 2 = 12 bars.... So,
are straight contra dance tunes 32 bar tunes ? (8 + 8 = 16 / 2 = 8 * 4 =
32). If my conversion theory is correct, that would make Cherokee Shuffle a
36 bar tune, and 30 Year Jig a 40 bar tune. Am I understanding this
correctly?
I'm so *not* a math or music theory head! But I suspect that bands would
prefer me to say I need an [N] bar tune rather than trying to describe what
I mean in beats/counts. And I really hadn't meant to start the beat vs.
count vs. bar discussion again. I just didn't get it the first time.
Thanks,
Bev
Re: 40 bar dances (comments by Chris and David...)
I shouldn't even type this but since I've currently got some time on my
hands... I began to wonder about this version of Cherokee Shuffle. I haven't
ever called it but I'm fairly sure I've danced David's original crooked
version.... (I call the straight version all the time).
When I listen to the YouTube link David provided
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s8Mmc69CP8) I count it like so:
A1: 8, 8
A2: 8, 8
B1: 8, 12
B2: 8, 12
Mind you, that's before they start riffing all over the place and I can't
quite hear the phrasing. But I'm not hearing both phrases in both B's having
12 beats/counts (let's not get started on that discussion again...!). I'm
only hearing the second phrase in each B as having 12. Is it my imagination?
And I see that as a little different than what Chris might be looking for,
unless I'm misunderstanding his notation of "(AA=8+8 plus BB=12+12)" because
that suggests to me that he needs all 4 of the B phrases to be 12. Is that
what you meant Chris?
When I look at David's notation for the dance....
Cherokee Shuffle
Improper
A1: (facing up and down set) w/Ns, F & B; w/N, dos-a-dos; form circle
A2: Bal. Circle; W/N, swing, end progressed
B1: Gs LH turn 1/2; W/P, bal. & swing (12 beats)
B2: Circle L 3/4; Circle Bal. 2x; W/P, California Twirl to swap places, face
new Ns
The B1 seems a little odd to me because the Gs LH turn 1/2 won't fill 8
beats/counts. I say that's a 4 beat/count figure at best. So 4 +12 = 16 when
it should be 20, shouldn't it?? And that's assuming he mean the notation of
(12 beats) to refer specifically to the balance and swing, which could be
wrong on my part. I don't remember what this should feel like when danced.
I guess there's a reason why I never call the crooked version...! I'd be
interested in any analysis. And like David, I'm curious about the tune the
band has in mind.
Thanks,
Bev
I really like Greg MacKenzie's question,
>>The real question is: What is your purpose? And what is the purpose of the
>> majority of those who attend? Are you trying to "preserve a tradition," to
>> "open folks to other dance traditions," or simply "to offer an open
>> community social dance with live music," or a combination of all those.
>> ...Or are we doing something else entirely? The answer will surely vary
>> for each dance series or event.
>>
>> This is a question seldom discussed yet it seems to be a central issue
>> regarding how we organize dances and what the role of the caller is. I
>> think that discussion would be very useful.
>>
>> What is the purpose of our event and what is the caller's job in realizing
>> that purpose?
I agree - this is indeed something I've never heard discussed. I've also never heard any particular stance on our purpose shared with dancers by boards, or with callers & bands by dance managers when booking. We have just sort of been each taking our own individual ideas of what we're up to for granted, I guess. Building community is another aspect we might throw into the pot. But who should be in on the deciding? Further musing: is it even a matter for deciding, or does the purpose of any ongoing activity sort of grow and shift organically to suit the times and those co-creating it?
Thanks for the provocative question, Greg!
Tina
FYI to all, there is a beautiful recording of Cherokee Shuffle by Bruce Ling here
http://www.hawksandowls.com/Tunes/Cherokee_shuffle/Cherokee_shuffle_page.htm
(This version is actually in three parts, AA BB CC)
Just had a crazy thought, the neighbor do-si-do could be done as a couple-do-si-do, a la Don Flaherty's Slapping The Wood
Coming out of the California twirl and forward-and-back, and going into the circle, this would maintain the connection with your partner
Mark Widmer
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 13:06:03 -0400
From: "The Witful Turnip" <wturnip(a)sympatico.ca>
Subject: [Callers] Cherokee Shuffle....
To: <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP351261D7F7EC0D3DE6FB2AC2290(a)phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
... David's notation for the dance....
Cherokee Shuffle
Improper
A1: (facing up and down set) w/Ns, F & B; w/N, dos-a-dos; form circle
A2: Bal. Circle; W/N, swing, end progressed
B1: Gs LH turn 1/2; W/P, bal. & swing (12 beats)
B2: Circle L 3/4; Circle Bal. 2x; W/P, California Twirl to swap places, face
new Ns
The B1 seems a little odd to me because the Gs LH turn 1/2 won't fill 8
beats/counts. I say that's a 4 beat/count figure at best. So 4 +12 = 16 when
it should be 20, shouldn't it?? And that's assuming he mean the notation of
(12 beats) to refer specifically to the balance and swing, which could be
wrong on my part. I don't remember what this should feel like when danced.
I guess there's a reason why I never call the crooked version...! I'd be
interested in any analysis. And like David, I'm curious about the tune the
band has in mind.
Thanks,
Bev
ps -- Looks like he meant that the swing is 12 beats NOT counting the balance, so as Richard Fischer said it's 4+4+12=20 (allemande + balance + swing)
Hi Chris,
The dance that comes immediately to mind is David Kaynor's "Cherokee Shuffle,"
written to accompany that tune.You can find it here:
http://www.davidkaynor.com/Compositions.html
There's a video on YouTube of three very hot guitar flatpickers playing Cherokee
Shuffle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s8Mmc69CP8
You could try out the calls to that tune to see how the timing works for you.
Just out of curiosity, what's the tune that your band is eager to play?
David Millstone
Lebanon, NH
I have noticed that sometimes if a dance has a "dorky" figure in it,
a tune that's slightly different can help free people up to enjoy it.
A ragtime tune, a klezmer tune, a riff from rock and roll, something
that makes people want to be playful or to bounce or shimmy as they
dance, will free them up to enjoy the "dorky" part and be playful
with it.
On Jul 7, 2009, at 9:00 AM, callers-request(a)sharedweight.net wrote:
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> 1. Re: "Limited Views" on Dorky Dances (Martha Edwards)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 20:56:00 -0500
> From: Martha Edwards <meedwards(a)westendweb.com>
> Subject: Re: [Callers] "Limited Views" on Dorky Dances
> To: "Caller's discussion list" <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
> Message-ID:
> <7d8d864a0907061856k5d2b99c5gc67897718922d7bd(a)mail.gmail.com>
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>
> My own foray this year into attempting to broaden people's idea of
> what kind
> of dancing they liked has led me to this hypothesis: People become
> comfortable with the dance figures and music AND social setting (!)
> of one
> dance form, and they dislike other dance forms in precisely the way
> those
> other forms differ from the one they're used to.
>
> They say "I know what I like" but if you watch closely, you may see
> that
> it's really "I like what I know."
>
> It's reasonable, really. Human evolution probably favors the
> development of
> people who find a safe way to live. If they don't venture too far
> out of
> their, let's call it, "culture", they survive. They have babies. The
> adventurous are admirable, but they don't tend to stay home and
> watch after
> the kiddies. So, it makes sense that once your body has a certain
> neurological "set", it may be pre-programmed not to like changes
> very much.
> I try to become a nice, healthy tea drinker, but every morning, I
> just make
> the coffee.
>
> On the other hand, my kids made it to adulthood, and so I am
> evolutionarily
> free to be adventurous. Although contra is my village social, my
> comfort
> zone, I dance Greek, contra, swing, and salsa, and recently added
> English
> and (gasp!) Modern Western Squares. I have become "used" to feeling
> awkward
> and inexpert, and know the feeling passes.
>
> I am sympathetic with those who have fought their way to competence
> in one
> dance form and are not about to give it up and feel awkward and
> inexpert
> again. I just wish I could figure out a way to help them stand it long
> enough for them to experience the pleasures of other dance forms.
>
> M
> E
>
> On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 4:51 PM, <gregmck(a)earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Well. Yes. I can see how many folks feel. Many of us encounter
>> rolling
>> eyeballs when we tell our friends about contras and we feel
>> compelled to
>> assure them that: "No. Its NOT like the goofy square dancing you
>> learned
>> in Jr. High. It's NOT about bouncing up and down, waving your
>> arms, and
>> making foolish animal sounds. Its actually very cool and you'll feel
>> comfortable doing it."
>>
>> Then, when we finally drag these folks to a contra dance, the
>> caller does
>> one of "those" dances.
>>
>> Is this being "limited" or "close-minded" (as one caller once
>> referred to
>> me)? Maybe.
>>
>> If you want to see real "closed mindedness" just try fitting one
>> simple
>> mosh pit slam dance with recorded screaming rock music--for just ten
>> minutes--into your contra dance program.
>>
>> The point is that "folk dancing" is an extremely "limited view" of
>> what
>> dancing should be. Contra dance is an extremely "limited view" of
>> what folk
>> dancing should be. And "folk music" is an extremely "limited
>> view" of what
>> music should be.
>>
>> On the whole, I would venture to say that in many ways contras are
>> more
>> open to variation than most "folk dancing." We have seen electronic
>> instruments sneak in along with non-traditional percussion (such
>> as trap
>> drum sets), and many variations of dance figures.
>>
>> Personally I think that the beauty, magic, and sustainability of
>> contra
>> dance comes precisely from the limits of the tradition that
>> governs it. It
>> is within that rigid traditional structure that people feel safe,
>> and free
>> enough to open themselves to others and to connect in
>> extraordinary ways.
>> This is not to say that I am a "traditionalist" by any means.
>> But we
>> should not try to "change the direction" of that tradition without
>> a clear
>> idea of what our common purpose is.
>>
>> The real question is: What is your purpose? And what is the
>> purpose of the
>> majority of those who attend? Are you trying to "preserve a
>> tradition," to
>> "open folks to other dance traditions," or simply "to offer an open
>> community social dance with live music," or a combination of all
>> those.
>> ...Or are we doing something else entirely? The answer will
>> surely vary
>> for each dance series or event.
>>
>> This is a question seldom discussed yet it seems to be a central
>> issue
>> regarding how we organize dances and what the role of the caller
>> is. I
>> think that discussion would be very useful.
>>
>> What is the purpose of our event and what is the caller's job in
>> realizing
>> that purpose?
>>
>> Perhaps if we answered that question we might come to a better
>> understanding of why we sometimes get "hairy eyeballs" when we
>> wander off
>> into some more "limited" goal.
>>
>> Just a thought,
>>
>> Greg McKenzie
>>
>> *********
>>
>> Winston Wrote:
>>
>>> I think I'd believe how much of a hairy eyeball you got. There
>>> are a lot
>>> of
>>> people with very limited views of what ought to happen at a
>>> contra dance,
>>> and
>>> they're not shy about letting you know. [I once saw somebody yell
>>> "English!"
>>> and refuse to do a bouree balance (not unlike an English setting
>>> step) in
>>> what
>>> was otherwise a perfectly conventional longways duple improper
>>> contra.]
>>>
>>> (Wide assortment of *reasons* for not liking what they don't
>>> like, and not
>>> being willing to give a chance to what they don't know they won't
>>> like.
>>> It's
>>> hard to influence the program and the dancer attitude very much
>>> if you're
>>> not
>>> the main caller, and if your desire to change the direction isn't
>>> shared
>>> by
>>> other callers. But anyway, if half of 'em sit down and grumble for
>>> squares,
>>> getting them to do a dorky (in a good way) scatter mixer to non-
>>> Celtic,
>>> non-old-timey, non-New-Englandy music is going to be a challenge.)
>>>
>>> -- Alan
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> ====================================================================
>>> ===========
>>> Alan Winston --- WINSTON(a)SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
>>> Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone:
>>> 650/926-3056
>>> Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo
>>> Park CA
>>> 94025
>>>
>>> ====================================================================
>>> ===========
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Callers mailing list
>>> Callers(a)sharedweight.net
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>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
> --
> For the good are always the merry,
> Save by an evil chance,
> And the merry love the fiddle
> And the merry love to dance. ~ William Butler Yeats
>
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> End of Callers Digest, Vol 59, Issue 3
> **************************************
Hi Chris,
I was working with a band that wanted to play an AABBC tune (I don't
remember which), and I wrote a long contra to go with it. I put a contra
corners in, since that often takes up so much of the dance there isn't room
for a whole lot else. The dancers were fine with it. I don't think most of
them noticed the extra length tune, although they did notice the tension
build towards the balance and swing.
The exact same trick won't work here, since the B's are odd length, but if
you want to play around with a contra corners you might try something like:
PROPER dance
A1
1s turn contra corners
A2
1s balance and swing in the middle
B1+
gents allemande left 1 1/2 while women orbit clockwise halfway around circle
gypsy neighbor on side and melt to swing (each active is on their home side)
B2+
2s 1/2 figure 8 up through ones
1s step between 2s, down the hall four in line
turn alone and come back, bend the end and on to the next
The active woman will have to switch hands with her partner to go into the
contra corners from the circle. It's an unbalanced dance (never a personal
favorite), but there's something for the 2s, and the 1/2 figure eight to the
line of four could flow well. Without knowing which tune you're trying to
work in, I can't say much more for flow than that. I don't have a crowd of
dancers on hand to try it out, and I'm guessing you'd have some at the same
time or before I would (Friday).
I hope you find something that works for you, it's always nice when a band
really digs a tune.
--
Luke Donev
http://www.lukedonev.com
Luke.Donev(a)gmail.com
