A few others to add to your search:
Diagonal Danger (Gene Hubert) - two diagonal waves, similar to Dr. Bluhm's
Perforated Corners (Seth Tepfer) - also with diagonal waves coming out of contra
corners type movement-- caution! no neighbor swing! horrors! and only the ones
get a partner swing! be ready to duck to avoid barbs from angry dancers at this
Serious Omission!
The Amazing Return (Ken Bonner)
Song of the Night (Gene Hubert) - stars on the diagonals
Catch You Later! (Margot Gunzenhauser)
If I Was Dead and It Wouldn't Go to Waste (Rachel Fifer) - starts with gents on
r. diagonal doing allemande left
No Rest for the Wicker (John-Michael Seng-Wheeler) - reverse double progression
duple improper
David Millstone
Hi Don,
Whoops - I read "wrist hook" and thought we were back on
stars! "Wrist hook" allemandes? What a terrible concept! Yes, I recall
a couple of people putting their arms in very strange positions,
sometimes as you describe.
My response to this and to allemanders who pull my arm
towards them is to remove all resistance - I am there to dance, not to
arm wrestle in any way. I get some strange looks, but I protect my body
(I have had two major shoulder operations so far!). Sometimes they will
work out why for themselves, and quite often, if they see me later they
will ask why I did that and I get the chance to explain a more friendly
technique. It is very difficult for me to broach the subject as most
people can't distinguish between constructive criticism/advice and
personal insult. But if they ask me I can try to establish some rapport
and give them some tips.
The same applies to people who lean back in swings - I just
move my hand from their shoulder-blade to their hip and they have to
readjust their lean so that they don't fall over (I don't want another
shoulder operation!).
Happy dancing,
John
John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362 &
07802 940 574
http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive Events & DVDs
http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
From: Don Veino <sharedweight_net(a)veino.com>
John, I agree with you on the saddle-style/classic Eastern star. What I
was referring to are the very infrequent individuals I encounter that
want to do an allemande by "hooking" my offered upright hand with their
closed fist & wrist-cocked lower forearm. I have no idea where they got
this but there are a couple of gents in my area that do this as their
standard move.
Previously:
>From an earlier post - I also abhor the "wrist hook" allemande.
My experience is the exact opposite. I have never felt any discomfort
in a box star, but often have problems in a hands-across star. In a
hands-across star you can often get your hand gripped uncomfortably by
the person opposite, or yanked off-centre by them, or it devolves into
an uncomfortable lump in the middle, especially when someone decides
that the two pairs of hands need to be joined (they don't) and uses
their thumb to clamp all the hands together.
I was taught this a long time ago:
Rule #1: Everyone has the right to get on the dance-floor and have fun
without getting injured.
Another key rule is:
Always start at zero tension and build up to the minimum that you need
to execute the move.
For example, when you start an Allemande you don't need any tension
other than that necessary to hold your hand up in the air. It is only as
you gain angular momentum that you need to tense up to counter the
centrifugal force, keeping your body in the same relative position and
your hand in the middle. The tension should increase steadily and
equally so that you maintain a good counter-balance.
Another good example is the box star. You just gently hook your hand
over the person in front. You don't apply any pressure in any way; you
just hook your fingers so that you are connected to the person in front.
During the star, IF you feel the need to hurry the star, YOU have the
OPTION to speed up and pull the person behind you a little faster. If
anyone in the star feels uncomfortable as the star speeds up they can
just straighten their fingers so that their hand slides off.
Too many dancers use unnecessary force. They need to learn that it is
about technique, not strength. And if you are leading a lady into
twirls or swing variations then a strong lead is about clarity, not
about strength.
As callers I believe we should all slip a couple of brief hints into our
calling every time we call. There are always newcomers at events, so we
can direct the hints to them in the hope that some of the "experienced"
dancers will pick them up.
Happy dancing,
John
John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362 &
07802 940 574
http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive Events & DVDs
http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
From: Don Veino <sharedweight_net(a)veino.com>
>From an earlier post - I also abhor the "wrist hook" allemande. When I
encounter that I always attempt to shift to a hand grip. Failing success
on that I simply let go. It can do a real job on your tendons, not to
mention the sweat factor... :(
Hi Jeff,
Yes, I hate it when people stick their fingers up straight
as well, or twist their wrists over so mine is bent backwards, or try to
arm wrestle while dancing.
For me a good Allemande hold is as shown in your photo
reference, but with the thumbs unlocked so that they are lying beside
the fingers.
Yes, people always used to interlock their thumbs - that is
how I was first taught it many, many years ago.
But the dancing has changed. What has happened is that
people now like to spin out of Allemandes; and Rory O'Mores are more
prevalent, where you spin out of an Allemande-type hold. If someone has
locked my thumb I can't spin! You say that it is easy to disengage when
the thumbs are interlocked. That is not my experience. I really, really
hate it when people hold on to me so that I can't enjoy the dancing. It
is definitely easier to disengage if the thumbs aren't interlocked.
Dance styles evolve, and this is an example of a good change
as far as I am concerned.
Let's all work on getting rid of thumbs from dancing! :-)
Happy dancing,
John
John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362 &
07802 940 574
http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive Events & DVDs
http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
From: Jeff Kaufman <jeff(a)alum.swarthmore.edu>
>
> I dance dozens of different dance styles and have never ever found any
> circumstance in dancing where you should use your thumb.
People disagree on this:
The thumbless allemande is one of my pet peeves, particularly that
rigid palm-only grip with the fingers flexed back and pointing
straight up. And the first time a dancer tried that hideous
wrist-to-wrist thing on me, I was so suprised I, rather
undiplomatically, laughed and blurted "What the hell was that?"
Bless his heart, he never tried it again.
I heard Lisa Greenleaf do a nice description of a good grip in her
Safe Contras workshop at NEFFA a few years ago. She put the emphasis
on hooking together the meaty parts at base of the thumbs so that
you're making the connection with nice strong muscle instead of
vulnerable fingers. The fingers can then curl gently around your
partner's hand without squeezing. What you get is a firm grip that
can take all the weight of an allemande, but can be easily
disengaged so that you take all of your digits with you into the
next move. -- Sarah Gowan
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=388018017325
<https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=388018017325&id=34955
7932325> &id=349557932325
What I think of as a good aleman grip:
http://i.imgur.com/9ZZr0.jpg
Jeff
My all time favourite dance to do with groups including children is Old
King Glory. It is a playparty which is sung by all while it is danced. I
learned it directly from Marian Rose, an amazing dance teacher in
Vancouver, BC. Here is the link I found online to a document by Marian,
which includes Old King Glory as well as several other great dances. If you
have any questions about how to do it, you can contact me and we can talk
about it. I can say that *every single time* I do this dance with kids
someone says, "Let's do it again!"
Maura Volante
Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 11:28:07 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Sarah Ziegi <sarah_ziegi(a)yahoo.com>
>
> To: "callers(a)sharedweight.net" <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
> Subject: [Callers] Elementary School Family Dance
> Message-ID:
> <1331663287.39350.YahooMailNeo(a)web112701.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Hello everyone,
> I'm calling for a family dance in a few days with mostly
> elementary-school-age children with a sprinkling of parental figures. I
> have a decent program, but I was wondering if any of you have a
> particularly favorite dance to try with a group like this. I'd like to add
> something new to my repertoire if possible.
> Thanks for any help!
>
> All the best,
> Sarah VanNorstrand
> Syracuse, NY
>
>
> -
This is a problem for my wrists, too. It can cause enough pain to bring tears to my eyes so I've taken a direct approach. With a friendly (I hope) smile, I put my opposite hand on the back of the other person's hand & gently push to straighten out the bend. This is often baffling to my co-allemander; the ones who care ask me then or later why I did that. I'm grateful that so many are truly curious and willing to alter the angle. A couple of friends have told me they still have no idea they are bending my wrist until I tell them. I can see that it might be a little trickier for a man to do this with another man....
-----Original Message-----
>From: Perry Shafran <pshaf(a)yahoo.com>
>Sent: Mar 13, 2012 3:17 PM
>To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
>Subject: Re: [Callers] Re Allemande Hold (was Analysis of Stars)
>
>Speaking of allemandes - is there ANY way to teach experienced dancers to not bend their wrists when they allemande? The wrist is supposed to be straight, not bent, as bending can cause pain to the other person's wrist (generally mine). Nowadays when I find a person allemande with a bent wrist I go ahead and keep mine straight and sacrifice a good allemande with weight for protecting my arm and wrist.
>
>As for thumbs, I protect my thumb in an allemande or a wavy line by keeping it close to my hand, not straight up ready to be grasped. I found that by "dancing defensively" in this manner I can protect all my digits and limbs and continue on the joy of dancing longer!
>
>Perry
>
>--- On Tue, 3/13/12, Andrea Nettleton <twirly-girl(a)bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>From: Andrea Nettleton <twirly-girl(a)bellsouth.net>
>Subject: Re: [Callers] Re Allemande Hold (was Analysis of Stars)
>To: "Caller's discussion list" <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
>Date: Tuesday, March 13, 2012, 3:08 PM
>
>As a dancer my personal solution to the Rory o more situation has been to have an old fashioned allemande grip for the first balance, as I balance away and have a little momentum to help tear the hands apart, I switch to an ECD hold, kind of like what you do for a balance before a swing, then it is only curved fingers, which actually give plenty of oomph to the spin, but also disengage easily. I don't spin out of allemandes as much, maybe because few women give enough connection to do so, in fact there is often no time for such a flourish because the connection is too weak to accelerate the allemande. This has nothing to do with the position of our hands or fingers or thumbs, but more a refusal to engage the whole arm so the presence of their body can be felt. I love a zesty dance weekend where a high proportion of women connect. I think by and large, we all wrap our fingers around the base of the other person's thumb, often enough with our
> thumbs also loosely curled arou
> nd. The only time I recently remember being 'gripped' was by a terrified newbie who seemed to want to hold on in hopes we would all help him get where he needed to be. Although it hurt, I was sorry for his fear and simply slid my thumb straight down. Like catching a falling pencil, it is pretty hard for someone to hold your thumb if you pull straight down.
>Cheers,
>Andrea
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>On Mar 13, 2012, at 2:20 PM, Ron Nelson <callerman(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> John Sweeny wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes, people always used to interlock their thumbs - that is
>>> how I was first taught it many, many years ago.
>>>
>>> But the dancing has changed. What has happened is that
>>> people now like to spin out of Allemandes; and Rory O'Mores are more
>>> prevalent, where you spin out of an Allemande-type hold. If someone has
>>> locked my thumb I can't spin! You say that it is easy to disengage when
>>> the thumbs are interlocked. That is not my experience. I really, really
>>> hate it when people hold on to me so that I can't enjoy the dancing. It
>>> is definitely easier to disengage if the thumbs aren't interlocked.
>>>
>>> Dance styles evolve, and this is an example of a good change
>>> as far as I am concerned.
>>>
>>> Let's all work on getting rid of thumbs from dancing! :-)
>>>
>>
>> Ron Nelson adds:
>>
>> I could not agree more. As one who suffers from arthritis in my hands, I can testify that the thumb is particularly susceptible to abuse and subsequent pain.
>> I try to avoid any grip which might entrap and discomfort.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Callers(a)sharedweight.net
>> http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
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“The curious paradox is that when I accept myself just as I am, then I can change.” Carl Rogers
On thumbs and allemandes:
A good friend of mine is sensitive to the 'dreaded thumb lock', and has showed me exactly why. He's right. It's AWFUL. His strategy is to keep his thumb beside (n line with) his fingers, everything else is the same in the 'mitten grip'. I've tried it myself, it works great. (And for those who don't believe it re. the thumb lock, get a friend to practice with you. Do the bent thumb allemande and tell them to press down hard with their thumb. Then try to extricate yourself. Ouch.)
This particular thumb-free (or perhaps "thumb-safe") allemande grip is no different than the bent thumb grip. (Thus, I disagree heartily with the FB person Jeff quoted.)
What makes the allemande feel great is the "connection" of the shared muscle tension in upper arms, the position of fingers around base of thumb of the other person's hand, and the straight wrist.
I once heard some great caller point out that you are engaging your upper arm muscle when you allemande - not your shoulder, not your wrist, not your fingers, and definitely not your thumb. Which is to say it's the shared, elastic tension that makes the allemande a great ride.
Chrissy Fowler
Belfast, ME
Hello everyone,
I'm calling for a family dance in a few days with mostly elementary-school-age children with a sprinkling of parental figures. I have a decent program, but I was wondering if any of you have a particularly favorite dance to try with a group like this. I'd like to add something new to my repertoire if possible.
Thanks for any help!
All the best,
Sarah VanNorstrand
Syracuse, NY
Hi Jeff,
Yes, it varies considerably in practice. The thumb serves no
purpose by being underneath. But if it is underneath then it allows the
possibility of gripping. I always teach to put it on top to prevent
gripping.
Happy dancing,
John
John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362 &
07802 940 574
http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive Events & DVDs
http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
From: Jeff Kaufman <jeff(a)alum.swarthmore.edu>
John Sweeney wrote:
>
> There is no grip - the thumb is supposed to be on top along with all
> the fingers.
I'm sure this varies, but that's not the way I've learned it. Dancing in
the Boston area I've always put the thumb under. It's a very lose
'grip',
http://www.cdss.org/elibrary/dart/images/star_plummer.jpg
It's blurry, but I think three of the dancers have their thumbs under
and only the top dancer has their thumb on top.
