I did some Irish Set Dancing at Chippenham Festival last weekend and one
of the dances (from Clare, I believe) had a "dosido" - but in this dance
it was a left shoulder dosido with exactly two clockwise spins.
When did people start dosido spinning in contra dances? Where did the
idea come from?
Did the contra dance version and the Irish Set Dance version come into
being independently?
Thanks.
Happy dancing,
John
John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362
http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
Erik said, "It's just gone out of fashion in the contra dance world"
... and the square dance world, and the ceilidh world, and the English
Country Dance world, and the English folk dance world, etc! :-)
Erik also said, "I have yet to hear one of the proselytizers for the
spinning Do Si Do discuss the problem of the directional nature of the
Do Si Do and how they teach that..."
I think the problem of direction comes because callers DON'T teach a
Dosido - they rely on new dancers picking it up from existing dancers,
who of course may well be spinning. One caller told a tale of how, when
calling, she said that in this dance she wanted the dancers to do an
ordinary dosido; apparently some dancers asked what she meant and were
amazed to discover that there were no spins in a standard dosido!
If there are ANY newcomers at a dance then I will teach the dosido; I
tell them to start facing their partner, work out which is their right
shoulder, go forwards, sideways, backwards without turning and finish
facing their partner - I usually explain that it comes from the French
dos-à-dos meaning back to back.
If it is an ONS I am usually in the middle of the floor with my wife and
my wireless head-mike and I demonstrate it.
If I see anyone folding their arms I tell them that dancers don't do
that any more so they don't have to do it, but that they can of course
do it if they want to - I always say, "Innovation and improvisation are
good" making it clear that they can do what they want as long as they
are in the right place at the right time and don't mess anyone up.
If anyone is spinning I will tell the newcomers that they may see people
spinning and they can ignore it - the move works if one person spins and
the other doesn't.
If they are a keen energetic crowd I may show them how to spin the
dosido since it is fun and some of them pick it up straight away and
love it.
If it is an English ceilidh I definitely don't mention spinning since it
is much harder to do it when dancing hop-steps or skip-change steps - it
is not part of the style. Likewise with ECD groups (which don't really
exist in England - we mix all the styles up at each event!) since it is
not considered part of that style (though often works very well!).
Happy dancing,
John
John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362
http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
<<Delayed because I sent from the wrong e-mail account...>>
I personally don't like arms folded in a dosido, so my three points in
favour of not folding was really a light-hearted response to the
previous post with three points in favour of saying nothing.
I always explain these things with a smile, tactfully, and make it
absolutely clear that they can fold their arms if they want: "innovation
and improvisation are good!" :-)
Why teach the dosido spin? Because it helps people to know which way to
spin, and because there are elements like catching your partner's eyes
between the spins that people won't necessarily pick up without some
guidance.
Happy dancing,
John
John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362
http://www.contrafusion.co.uk <http://www.contrafusion.co.uk/> for
Dancing in Kent
Hi All,
I can't help looking for opportunities to modify...
For crowds that don't like the "inactive" role of 2's and 3's, the dance can be
made into a triplet, (set of 3 couples) if the 2's and 3's allemande once and a half to change places
while the actives go "across the hall and come back." If this is timed perfectly, a group of 6
can actually be in a line up and down the hall, just before the cast off.
About the "across the hall," the same old-timer who asked me about the contra corners with
each active visiting 4 corners, (BTW Thank you all for the feedback) demonstrates what he termed
a "rant" step at the end of the "across the hall" before the "and come back."
And, when dancing Sackett's harbor with a playful crowd, the Contra corners can be
turned into two "stars for three" with a little fast footwork. And I wonder if anyone has
written a version of this dance that includes that "visit all 4 in the contra corners" figure...
bobfab(a)aol.com
-----Original Message-----
From: callers-request <callers-request(a)sharedweight.net>
To: callers <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Sent: Wed, May 29, 2013 12:00 pm
Subject: Callers Digest, Vol 105, Issue 28
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
han "Re: Contents of Callers digest..."
oday's Topics:
1. Historic dances, Sacktt's Harbor (Donald Perley)
2. Re: Historic dances, Sacktt's Harbor (Kalia Kliban)
3. Re: Historic dances, Sacktt's Harbor (Jonathan Sivier)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
ate: Tue, 28 May 2013 13:19:43 -0400
rom: Donald Perley <donperley(a)gmail.com>
o: "Caller's discussion list" <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
ubject: [Callers] Historic dances, Sacktt's Harbor
essage-ID:
<CAMKNU+-+H8CYAY3++-gFvyA=TY0sprL1_5nG7tx53hySvtjmwg(a)mail.gmail.com>
ontent-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
Last year the 200th anniversary of Hull's Victory had a lot of callers
eaturing that fine chestnut.
Today marks the 200th for the battle of Sacket's Harbor (second of 2
nyway) so consider adding it to your program in the next week. I
alled it last weekend to an enthused crowd.
Sackets Harbor
ormation: Contra, triple minor proper
igs: Steamboat Quickstep/I Lost My Love
A1-
orward six and back
ircle left, 3/4 round (six hands,) gents face up and the ladies face down
2-
ctives ?down? the center, turn alone
eturn, cast off
1-
urn contra corners and fall back into your own line
2-
orward six and back
ircle right, 3/4 round ( six hands)
In A2 the actives are actually moving across the hall as the minor
ets are rotated. If the stage is north, they move
est to east.
-----------------------------
Message: 2
ate: Tue, 28 May 2013 10:39:26 -0700
rom: Kalia Kliban <kalia(a)sbcglobal.net>
o: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
ubject: Re: [Callers] Historic dances, Sacktt's Harbor
essage-ID: <51A4EBCE.7020803(a)sbcglobal.net>
ontent-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
On 5/28/2013 10:19 AM, Donald Perley wrote:
Last year the 200th anniversary of Hull's Victory had a lot of callers
featuring that fine chestnut.
Today marks the 200th for the battle of Sacket's Harbor (second of 2
anyway) so consider adding it to your program in the next week. I
called it last weekend to an enthused crowd.
And you can get the English dancers in the crowd intrigued by telling
hem that it's essentially Trip to Tunbridge turned sideways. The
-to-T tune segues pretty nicely out of Steamboat Quickstep if you want
fun musical trivia moment.
Kalia
-----------------------------
Message: 3
ate: Tue, 28 May 2013 12:40:33 -0500
rom: Jonathan Sivier <jsivier(a)illinois.edu>
o: "Caller's discussion list" <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
ubject: Re: [Callers] Historic dances, Sacktt's Harbor
essage-ID: <51A4EC11.5030907(a)illinois.edu>
ontent-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; format=flowed
On 5/28/2013 12:19 PM, Donald Perley wrote:
Last year the 200th anniversary of Hull's Victory had a lot of callers
featuring that fine chestnut.
Today marks the 200th for the battle of Sacket's Harbor (second of 2
anyway) so consider adding it to your program in the next week. I
called it last weekend to an enthused crowd.
The next two Fridays, May 31 and June 7, Scott Meyer and I will be
eading workshops on Chestnut Contras prior to the Urbana Country
ancers' regular contra dances in Urbana, IL. We will be doing a number
f different classic dances including Hull's Victory and Sackett's
arbor. Here is the list of dances we will be selecting from for the
orkshops.
Chorus Jig
ull's Victory
ady of the Lake
ady Walpole's Reel
etronella
ortland Fancy
ory O'More
ackett's Harbor
There were several others we considered, but had to leave off the
ist. We could easily have added a 3rd or even a 4th workshop. We hope
o give our local dancers a feel for some of the history of contra dance
nd where some of the figures they encounter in modern dances came from.
Jonathan
----
onathan Sivier
aller of Contra, English and Early American Dances
sivier AT illinois DOT edu
ance Page: http://www.sivier.me/dance_leader.html
----
: How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
: It depends on what dance you call!
-----------------------------
_______________________________________________
allers mailing list
allers(a)sharedweight.net
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nd of Callers Digest, Vol 105, Issue 28
***************************************
I think it is time to write a dance celebrating the victory of the Shannon
over the Chesapeake, for the Canadian and British dancers. There is a fine
song about it with a jig tune, so that would work, musically. I'll try to
work up some choreography because the anniversary of that is coming up,
too: June 1.
Maura
Ottawa, Ontario
>
Last year the 200th anniversary of Hull's Victory had a lot of callers
featuring that fine chestnut.
Today marks the 200th for the battle of Sacket's Harbor (second of 2
anyway) so consider adding it to your program in the next week. I
called it last weekend to an enthused crowd.
Sackets Harbor
Formation: Contra, triple minor proper
Jigs: Steamboat Quickstep/I Lost My Love
A1-
Forward six and back
Circle left, 3/4 round (six hands,) gents face up and the ladies face down
A2-
Actives “down” the center, turn alone
Return, cast off
B1-
Turn contra corners and fall back into your own line
B2-
Forward six and back
Circle right, 3/4 round ( six hands)
In A2 the actives are actually moving across the hall as the minor
sets are rotated. If the stage is north, they move
west to east.
In response to various posts:
Having your arms slightly out from your body DOES help with balance, by
increasing your moment of inertia. That's why tightrope walkers have
their arms out - not that I am recommending you put them that far out!
Having them folded DOES make it harder to balance! Yes, most people can
still spin, but why make it harder for yourself!
Using your arms effectively can help you spin more easily - you bring
them out a little before the spin then bring them in closer as you spin
- I take my right arm out slightly to the side as I start a
counter-clockwise spin in a right-shoulder dosido and wrap it in front
of me as I spin (I am used to doing this as I teach a number of other
dance styles which have spinning in and it is a key part of getting good
spins). I usually do three spins in a dosido, catching my partner's
eyes three times, so my arm moves out and in three times. For me it is
a reflex action. It is not a big movement, but it helps make the spins
easier and smoother.
You will see ice skaters doing the same thing to get multiple spins.
If you are interested in the science see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angular_momentum
I definitely don't get in the way of people's pleasure - I just
tactfully let those who are learning a dosido for the first time know
that they don't need to fold their arms, but that they can if they want
to. We call our sessions "Dancing for Fun" so I make sure every one is
smiling! :-)
Happy dancing,
John
John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362
http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
Perry brings up a couple things which are often on my mind. As i write
this, i'm thinking there are a few folks out there rolling their eyes or
gritting their teeth at the recent flood of progressive dialogue on this
thread. Bear with me, please...
I consider myself a trans-role dancer (as opposed to cis-gendered; i fully
identify as male, but my gender identity has no bearing on which role i
dance). When i first encountered contradance, it was with callers who
emphasized that "gent/lady" are merely titles of traditional roles which
anyone can play regardless of their gender identity. That idea stuck. At
those dances in rural Maine, there was often a surfeit of female dancers,
and the callers brought along a briefcase full of neckties to help folks
denote roles. (That practice suffers the same limitations that physical
armbands do, if dancers plan on "flipping the ship" mid-dance.)
I'm going to focus this next bit on "same gender neighboring" versus
partnering, so as to include heteropartner-pairs who have swapped roles,
and speak from my experience as a trans-role male (a slightly different
topic than trans-role female partner/neighbor issues, i recognize). The
interpersonal dynamics of same-gender neighbor swings (particularly those
following from a gypsy!) are never far from my mind. It seems that no
matter where i dance, from Maine to Massachusetts to North Carolina, the
sample composition is the same: most men are comfortable with limited
same-gender neighboring; many are energized by the apparent physical
opportunity to swing or flourish more vigorously; some are merely
disoriented by it; and a few are downright uncomfortable.
A friend of mine, a male in his 60s, describes his initial discomfort at
same-gender dance floor encounters giving way to an appreciation for the
inclusivity of the community. He still prefers to partner
heteronormatively, but he recognizes the value of making the dance
community as inclusive as it is, and on occasion actively supports that
value by partnering same-gender. I think that position describes where a
lot of dancers are. Whatever a person's experience of the folkdance
meta-community is, i believe we can agree that one thing which sets it
apart from other social spheres is its inclusivity.
In a few locations i've danced, most recently Bangor, Maine, i've noted a
phenomenon where multiple sets forming seemed to segregate into cisgendered
dancers versus trans-role dancers. I foresee a potentially vehement tangent
in response to this observation. Yes, having sets segregate by some set of
partnering preferences, be it age or role-flexibility (the two often
co-occur) does begin to fragment the community - but it is a patch solution
which minimizes the discomfort to some dancers, offering a choice of
expressions and comfort levels in communities where a strictly gender-free
dance outlet is unavailable.
Will we ever move contradancing to a completely gender-free system? I hope
not. Good or bad, the genderedness of the form is an intrinsic aspect of
the tradition, more so even than in couple dancing; without it, where would
the "proper" dance formation be? Gender-free dance can be a "safe space",
or a playground for more adventurous dancers - offering an experiential
contrast to traditionally gendered dance we would be unable to enjoy or
appreciate if the distinction were erased.
But... terminology, gender, dance roles, partnering issues (broadening to
include other characteristics like age, physical characteristics, dance
skill...). In a discussion thread elsewhere, Scott Higgs described
partnering issues as an "elephant in the room" that can be a major factor
determining whether individuals' experience of the dance is positive or
negative. I agree wholeheartedly, and hope that we as a community can be
more attentive to these issues, following on opportunities like the session
he and Lisa Greenleaf led at NEFFA 2012 to discuss partnering choices and
behavior patterns in a judgment-free zone.
The thing that's really on my mind right now, and seems to be on others',
is that contradance is a unique form, and terms which accurately describe
other dance forms don't really fit here. Can we as a community find a
system of our own, one that innovates while honoring the tradition,
transcending yet including our historical antecedents?
As we move into 2013, i hope we can continue to decloak this elephantine
polylogue, finding ways to both honor individuals' comfort level and
enhance the inclusivity of the community... and get rid of that damn
"lead/follow" thing...
happy new year, btw!
------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 08:12:42 -0800 (PST)
> From: Perry Shafran <pshaf(a)yahoo.com>
> To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
> Subject: Re: [Callers] gender
> Message-ID:
> <1357143162.59466.YahooMailNeo(a)web120701.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> There are several issues here.? One is the terminology that is used to
> differentiate the two dance roles and second, whether we will ever move
> contra dancing to a completely gender-free system.
>
> I think that
> we all have to understand that everyone has their own comfort zone.?
> Some people do NOT want to dance with a same-gendered person no matter
> how much you prod them, shame them, or even force them to do so.?? Some
> are willing to try it from time to time, others enjoy it a lot, and others
> want to make all
> contra dances completely gender free regardless of whether or not it
> will chase some members from the community.?
>
> It is a strong
> uphill battle to at least move from a heteronormative way of thinking.?
> Just recently it was suggested that the way to get someone to contra
> dance (a man) was to tell him that a
> new woman will be thrown into his arms every 30 seconds.? Reason being
> that most people are heterosexual and might be drawn to dance thinking
> he's going to dance with women.? I suggested that this was a bad idea
> due to the fact that in most dances you'll see men dancing with men,
> women dancing with women, and people switching roles.?
>
> I think
> that the best compromise is to continue with the gents/ladies
> terminology, but emphasize that these are merely titles of traditional
> roles, but anyone can play them regardless of physical gender.? That is
> what I say in my workshops, and it's usually generally understood.? Any
> new terminology that you use will force people to translate which means
> "man" and which means "woman".?? However, I do understand the baggage
> that these gender-loaded terms do bring.??
>
>
> Perry
>
>
Hey all,
This is a little bit of an unusual request for the list and I hope
it's w/in bounds.
If you are not headed to The Dance in memory of Nat Hewitt in Falmouth
ME , June 1 and are free & willing, please consider:
Sat, June 1, 7:30-10:30 pm: a benefit contra dance for CDSS &
NEFFA at Christ Episcopal Church, 14 School St, Medway MA. Paul
Wilde & members of the PJammers invite ALL dancers, including
musicians and callers (who are welcome to dance as well as call or play).
Contact Paul at zenyente(a)gmail.com for further info. Please
come and make the final spin around this beautiful floor a success.
Is there a musician's list that parallels the shared wt. caller's
list, and how might I post/join it (if the above request seems
appropriate)? Thanks.
warmest regards,
Paul
