Contra Callers

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37 participants
4387 discussions

by Jacob or Nancy Bloom via Callers

I've changed the name on the thread, to reflect the change of subject to historical background. I acknowledge Alan's point, that, unless a pre-Cecil Sharp source shows up for the use of the term 'gypsy' as a country dance figure, the bulk of my hypothesis falls apart. As for the use of the terms 'gyp' and 'gypsy' in Morris dance, *The Morris Book* by Cecil Sharp and Herbert Macilwaine defines the figure "Half-Hands or Half-Gip" in part I, page 65, and defines the figure "Whole-Gip or Gipsies" on page 32 of Part III. No explanation for the derivation of the terms is given in either volume. I do not have a copy of Sharp's Country Dance Book at hand. Did someone say that Sharp did not use the term gypsy in it? Jacob On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 4:40 AM, Alan Winston <winston(a)slac.stanford.edu> wrote: > > > On 10/24/15 10:32 PM, Jacob Nancy Bloom via Callers wrote: > > See the link below for more information on the dance The Spanish Gypsy (or > Jeepsie), the song from which the tune for the dance came, and the 1623 > play from which the song came, which had the title "The Spanish Gypsy". > > http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/lod/vol4/spanish_gipsy.html > > I'll go out on a limb and make some historical pronouncements which cannot > be proven, but which seem most probable to me: > > The dance title The Spanish Gypsy came from the dance being done to a tune > associated with the play The Spanish Gypsy. > > Sure, extremely plausible. > > The dance figure Gypsy got its name from the prevalence of the figure in > the dance The Spanish Gypsy. > > > If true, only true in the modern revival. (Basically, Cecil Sharp made up > *and named* the Gypsy figure. In Spanish Jeepsie - reconstructed at the > link you have above- the figure isn't a gypsy, and it isn't called a > gypsy. It's a back to back.) > > Point me toward dance notation published before 1900 that uses the term > "gypsy" as the name of a figure, and then we can talk. Until there's some > evidence that Elizabethan dancers used the figure name, your argument dies > here. > > The Morris dance figures whole-gyp and half-gyp were originally called > whole-gypsy and half-gypsy. (Although parts of England had and ancient > tradition of seasonal dancing under the name Morris Dance, it seems likely, > from the nature of the dances, that the form of the Cotswold dance > traditions collected by Cecil Sharp only went back to the Elizabethan > period.) > > I think you're saying that Cotswold dances as collected by Sharp and > others reflected Elizabethan country dances as shown in Playford, and that > whole-gyp and half-gyp were therefore originally named after the (notional) > country dance figure and were thus properly named whole-gypsy and > half-gypsy. Please correct me if I've misunderstood this. > > This is irrelevant unless you can show that Elizabethan country dance > actually had a figure called gypsy, which you haven't. (And it's actually > irrelevant even if you can, since once you draw a line from the play to the > tune to the dance you've said what you can about it not being an ethnic > stereotype.) > > But if it *were* relevant, I'd ask you to explain why these > Playford-following Elizabethan morris dancers used "half-gypsy" for what > Playford called "sides all". > > -- Alan >

9 years, 9 months

Gypsy terms (Re: Callers Digest, Vol 18, Issue 16)

by Suzanne Girardot via Callers

9 years, 9 months

Gypsies

by Andrea Nettleton via Callers

I don't like the idea that a term we use might be offensive to someone. I think part of its tenacity is that it can be used for a whole family of similar eye locking moves. The term walk around will not serve in what is now called a gypsy star, or in a traveling gypsy, gypsy chase, or gypsy hey, which all have eye contact as a common element. In discussing with dancers, I heard objection to the terms catching eyes, grabbing by the eyes etc. made them think of hands in eyes. Not that they didn't understand, but it was distasteful to them. Perhaps we could agree to a term like 'facing' to link the diverse moves together. It is used in squares in cases where instead of the usual facing someone's back, you are face to face (as in a facing diamond). This un-knots all the alternative moves (facing star, facing hey, travel facing). I don't actually think of a plain gypsy as involving a shoulder, but rather a side of my face. Go R face round your N, ladies L face round each other? Facing indicates where we should look more or less without demanding eye contact. I like eye contact, but some are profoundly uncomfortable with it. I dislike when they choose to twirl their bodies rather than at least look in my general direction. Facing helps with that. I'm sure we will come up with something better, but I'd like a solution that acknowledges this family of moves. I'm not fond of eddy, for its aural similarity to the name Eddie. Spiral, vortex etc, while all sort of indicative of rotation, also indicate to me the funnel effect, which is not the only way we use the move. Many gypsies merely move us smoothly on to another dancer. One final thought, offered mostly for grins. I have occasionally thought of a gypsy as two people walking round a maypole. We could say R maypole round your N, Ladies L maypole in the center, go one and a half to your P, R maypole and swing your partner. :D Andrea Sent from my iOnlypretendtomultitask > On Oct 25, 2015, at 12:56 PM, Joy Greenwolfe via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > > I once had someone explain the gypsy as not trusting someone enough to take their eyes off of them (!), so I agree that the underlying meaning can be problematic, to say the least. Other moves have historical meanings too, but Gypsy as a term is more pejorative than, say, Allemande, which references traditional German folk dance hand holds. > > I like Michael's suggestion for "eyes." When teaching, it could be described as "walk around holding eyes," which is similar to how I already describe it (holding eyes instead of hands). Then during the dance, the call could be shortened to "eyes" or "hold eyes." Something like "Ladies hold eyes" seems to roll off the tongue with a good rhythm. Or maybe "Ladies by the eyes?" > > Melting could still be melting. Not sure how I'd fix my gypsy chase move, though. > > There is also the issue of avoiding similar directions that would confuse the dancers, such as in a Mad Robin where you are encouraged to hold eyes with the person across from you, but not actually rotate around them. Maybe we need an alternate descriptive/evocative term, like the way a Mad Robin is sometimes called Sliding Doors. > > A single orbit? Eyes single? Star single? Hands off? > > I'm also curious about thoughts about to what degree we might explain the change to dancers. From most of the dancers' perspective, it may be "if it ain't broke, don't change it." We might get push-back from dancers exasperated with what seems to them like an arbitrary term change. Maybe if the term is more descriptive, they won't notice as much. "Holding Eyes" works for me. > > Just some thoughts. > > Joy Greenwolfe > Durham, NC > > >

9 years, 9 months

Re: [Callers] Amy Asked For A Less Loaded Term (formerly "Advice on gypsy")

by tavi merrill via Callers

A couple thoughts i left out of the first message: I suggest "take eyes" rather than "lock eyes" because it's a less forceful/invasive phrasing and because it mirrors "take right hands," "take hands four" et cetera. And yes, i've seen others' comments to the effect that some find eye contact uncomfortable, but eyes are the primary connection between dancers in that move, so i see no reason to shy away from including that information in teaching and prompting, and those who find eye contact uncomfortable can continue avoiding it - as they do anyway, regardless of what the move is called.

9 years, 9 months

Amy Asked For A Less Loaded Term (formerly "Advice on gypsy")

by tavi merrill via Callers

With regard to the term's offensiveness or lack thereof, i am less interested in the exact origins of the term's use within ECD than i am in the implications in pairing the term with that particular move. To be "gypped" is to be cheated, a term rooted in stereotypes of Romani people as untrustworthy, and the eyes are associated with gypsies in popular lore that ascribes a certain mystery or hypnotic power to the gypsy's gaze. While i am aware of both people who are offended by the term and people who take pride in it (hmm, how is that different from the N word? or fag?) i find the term itself less problematic than the web of association among the term, the eyes, mystery, hypnosis and criminality. Alternatives to "gypsy" have thus been on my radar for some time now. Most of the suggestions - orbit, vortex, yada yada - are dismissible, which leads me to a very simple suggestion. While flirtation isn't necessary to the move, eye contact is kind of the point of it. I had forgotten to explicitly teach the move at a recent gig with a number of beginners and just decided to prompt "eyes." It was magic. While i haven't yet pressed this into service: "Take eyes with your [partner/neighbor] and, without hands, turn by the [R/L]." As a prompt, "eyes" has so much more sense and grace to it than any other term that's been suggested. Associated moves (gypsy chase, gypsy star, etc) are another bridge to cross. Personally, i would feel comfortable removing the term from my calling as the name of that particular move without feeling a need to eschew or sanitize dances with the term in the title. I mean, Amy Asked for Eyes is a little awkward ;)

9 years, 9 months

Re: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"

by janet via Callers

Aside from the fact that I feel that "political correctness" has gotten out of hand in society in general, I would like to point out that words change their intentions over time as well as within different communities. While it may be true that gypsy was originally meant as a derogatory term against a certain group of people, in the contra community it is quite the opposite. Gypsy in Contra actually has two meanings, the first is the dance move and in fact other moves where you are facing another person (i.e. gypsy star, gypsy heys) and there are dance gypsies who travel frequently to other dances outside their home community. Neither one is at all derogatory. Gypsy moves are fun and moSt people really like them. Dance gypsies are very proud of being one. In no way whatsoever is the term meant to be derogatory in our community. There are many examples of this in society, but I will just point out one .. troll. Troll has an original meaning as a mean mythical creature, who, somewhere along the lines became associated with living under a bridge. In today's society a troll came to mean someone who reads computer forums, usually with malicious intentions. But even that has shifted so people refer to trolling the Internet as reading forums or posts without any intent to post at all. But you know what troll means to me, as someone who grew up in Michigan? I lived in the southern peninsula, or "under the bridge" - referring to the Mackinaw bridge). It is not derogatory, it is funny. I don't think we need to change any term that used to be derogatory, I would encourage people to recognize that in our society, it has a different meaning, and a very positive one at that. Language changes over ten and terms take on all new meanings. If I were to respond to this woman, I would explain to her that while we recognize that gypsy was originally a derogatory term, gypsies are highly regarded in our community and explain why. Janet Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone In response to this person from your dance I would personally reply with something like: "I'm sorry that you were offended and take your input seriously. The "gypsy" move in Contra dancing is shared from English Country Dance, and is a standardized term in this context. As a result of your input I've raised this issue with a group of dance leaders I participate in and there may be an opportunity to rename this move over time. Thanks for coming to our dance and I hope you'll join us again." On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 3:12 AM, Amy Wimmer via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: In teaching it I wanted to convey that it is a flirty, eye contact sort of move. This person was obviously offended. I am at a loss for how to respond, except to apologize for offending.

9 years, 9 months

Re: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"

by Bree Kalb via Callers

9 years, 9 months

Musical styles for a Barn Dance question

by Leslie Gotfrit via Callers

I’ve been asked to call a one hour set in a rural heritage hall for a party for about 130 folks. There will be two sets at the end of the evening with a Blues Band. Yep, its a bit odd, but the organizer wants to bring all his various friends together and thought, rightly, that having someone organize some dancing would help that along. Has anyone ever called a community dance (circle mixers, scatter sets, longways, maybe a square) to a blues band? The band seems willing to work with me. Any suggestions about what to say to them so that I could call La Bastringue or Galopede, for example, and it would work? Any suggestions for youtube links for a caller calling to something other than the usual trad tune? I could bring in a fiddler and ask the band to back the fiddler up. Any advice on doing it that way? Is this so ridiculous that you’re all doubled over laughing? People will be there not because they are blues lovers so much as their buddy is throwing a party. In any case, I’d be grateful for advice Leslie Gotfrit

9 years, 9 months

Blues for contra dancing

by Richard via Callers

The structure of a classic blues song is 12 bars long (24 beats). Modern blues bands do play a lot of tunes that are not in this structure. In any case it might be interesting to think about contras that are or could be made to be 48 or 72 beats long, rather than 64. R Richard Hopkins 850-544-7614 Hopkinsrs(a)comcast.net Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 18, 2015, at 4:01 PM, via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > > Send Callers mailing list submissions to > callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > callers-request(a)lists.sharedweight.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > callers-owner(a)lists.sharedweight.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Callers digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Dances For Short Line (Louie.cromartie via Callers) > 2. Re: Dances For Short Line (Linda Leslie via Callers) > 3. Musical styles for a Barn Dance question > (Leslie Gotfrit via Callers) > 4. Re: Musical styles for a Barn Dance question > (John Rogers via Callers) > 5. Re: Musical styles for a Barn Dance question > (JD Erskine iDance via Callers) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 16:32:15 -0400 > From: "Louie.cromartie via Callers" <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> > To: Martha Wild <mawild(a)sbcglobal.net> > Cc: sharedweight <callers(a)sharedweight.net> > Subject: Re: [Callers] Dances For Short Line > Message-ID: <C99FE837-4B91-4DDB-8469-645083D7DAB5(a)gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Just curious. Robert doesn't recall writing (or calling) a dance called Saint Louis Cruise. Perhaps it was created by someone else. > -Louie (not a saint) > Send Callers mailing list submissions to > callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > callers-request(a)lists.sharedweight.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > callers-owner(a)lists.sharedweight.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Callers digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Dances For Short Line (Louie.cromartie via Callers) > 2. Re: Dances For Short Line (Linda Leslie via Callers) > 3. Musical styles for a Barn Dance question > (Leslie Gotfrit via Callers) > 4. Re: Musical styles for a Barn Dance question > (John Rogers via Callers) > 5. Re: Musical styles for a Barn Dance question > (JD Erskine iDance via Callers) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 16:32:15 -0400 > From: "Louie.cromartie via Callers" <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> > To: Martha Wild <mawild(a)sbcglobal.net> > Cc: sharedweight <callers(a)sharedweight.net> > Subject: Re: [Callers] Dances For Short Line > Message-ID: <C99FE837-4B91-4DDB-8469-645083D7DAB5(a)gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Just curious. Robert doesn't recall writing (or calling) a dance called Saint Louis Cruise. Perhaps it was created by someone else. > -Louie (not a saint) > >> On Oct 16, 2015, at 12:56 AM, Martha Wild via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >> >> It's a good time to call dances that might need extra space along the line - for example, there are some dances with a ladies chain up and down as opposed to across the set such as Saint Louis Cruise by Robert Cromartie. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 17:12:51 -0400 > From: Linda Leslie via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> > To: "Louie.cromartie" <louie.cromartie(a)gmail.com> > Cc: sharedweight <callers(a)sharedweight.net> > Subject: Re: [Callers] Dances For Short Line > Message-ID: <F564544E-28C1-4939-8285-71308A7036B1(a)comcast.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > I believe it was written by Roger Diggle?. > Linda > >> On Oct 17, 2015, at 4:32 PM, Louie.cromartie via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >> >> Just curious. Robert doesn't recall writing (or calling) a dance called Saint Louis Cruise. Perhaps it was created by someone else. >> -Louie (not a saint) >> >>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 12:56 AM, Martha Wild via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >>> >>> It's a good time to call dances that might need extra space along the line - for example, there are some dances with a ladies chain up and down as opposed to across the set such as Saint Louis Cruise by Robert Cromartie. >> _______________________________________________ >> Callers mailing list >> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 21:02:33 -0600 > From: Leslie Gotfrit via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> > To: callers(a)sharedweight.net > Subject: [Callers] Musical styles for a Barn Dance question > Message-ID: <00563DE5-85B3-4272-810C-6A2CC08B86F8(a)me.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > I?ve been asked to call a one hour set in a rural heritage hall for a party for about 130 folks. There will be two sets at the end of the evening with a Blues Band. Yep, its a bit odd, but the organizer wants to bring all his various friends together and thought, rightly, that having someone organize some dancing would help that along. Has anyone ever called a community dance (circle mixers, scatter sets, longways, maybe a square) to a blues band? The band seems willing to work with me. Any suggestions about what to say to them so that I could call La Bastringue or Galopede, for example, and it would work? > > Any suggestions for youtube links for a caller calling to something other than the usual trad tune? I could bring in a fiddler and ask the band to back the fiddler up. Any advice on doing it that way? > > Is this so ridiculous that you?re all doubled over laughing? People will be there not because they are blues lovers so much as their buddy is throwing a party. > > In any case, I?d be grateful for advice > Leslie Gotfrit > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 00:24:52 -0700 > From: John Rogers via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> > To: Leslie Gotfrit <lgotfrit(a)me.com> > Cc: "callers(a)sharedweight.net" <callers(a)sharedweight.net> > Subject: Re: [Callers] Musical styles for a Barn Dance question > Message-ID: <65CF175B-3ADF-4823-9D15-A42D75F21167(a)icloud.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > With the right cooperation from the band it could work out just fine. I've called contras to all sorts of music, including Romanian folksongs. But, you do need to talk with them about the fact that every tune needs to be 32 bars and of uniform tempo. (And the tempo should be an appropriate one.) The AABB structure that we are used to is nice, but you can probably cope with ABCD if that is what they will play. It will help if you can get a recording of them playing, so you can get used to timing your calls. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Oct 17, 2015, at 8:02 PM, Leslie Gotfrit via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >> >> I?ve been asked to call a one hour set in a rural heritage hall for a party for about 130 folks. There will be two sets at the end of the evening with a Blues Band. Yep, its a bit odd, but the organizer wants to bring all his various friends together and thought, rightly, that having someone organize some dancing would help that along. Has anyone ever called a community dance (circle mixers, scatter sets, longways, maybe a square) to a blues band? The band seems willing to work with me. Any suggestions about what to say to them so that I could call La Bastringue or Galopede, for example, and it would work? >> >> Any suggestions for youtube links for a caller calling to something other than the usual trad tune? I could bring in a fiddler and ask the band to back the fiddler up. Any advice on doing it that way? >> >> Is this so ridiculous that you?re all doubled over laughing? People will be there not because they are blues lovers so much as their buddy is throwing a party. >> >> In any case, I?d be grateful for advice >> Leslie Gotfrit >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Callers mailing list >> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 01:12:55 -0700 > From: JD Erskine iDance via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> > To: callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > Subject: Re: [Callers] Musical styles for a Barn Dance question > Message-ID: <56235487.2060704(a)shaw.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > On 2015-10-17 2002, Leslie Gotfrit via Callers wrote: > snip > >> In any case, I?d be grateful for advice >> Leslie Gotfrit > > Try it. Maybe. <grin> > > I worked a Contra series dance with my first (advertised as such) old > time band tonight. The No Jigs thing initially felt a bit unsettling, > however the musicianship and music was great. No medleys, which I'm fine > with, and a bit of joint effort looking for variety had it work out > well. I'd mentioned all the basic parameters and communications points > prior to the event and tonight we went over them before the intro > session this series hosts. > > This past summer I worked with my first Bluegrass band. I'd been > concerned a bit with that as well. A "Contra", really a barn dance/ONS > on "grass" (beaten down by the sheep for a few years), worked out well. > > I covered off the points John Rogers made about tempo, length with both > of them. Also starts and endings, who to talk to about what, how to > speed up/slow down (if possible.) All the usual things. > > A few weeks ago I attended a free, intro night of MWSD. The point I took > away from that was that someone could really use any music if it met the > basic criteria. There were Beatles tunes/songs, pop "standards" and > such. Not much in the way of tune as many of us might generally expect > or appreciate. > > A number of callers I've experienced have offered the old saw that a > dancers need for rhythm might just as easily be met by a drum stick > attached to a car wiper as a band. > > If the band is not an established one, or don't have a recording, some > practises/time with several of them playing prior to the event might > prove useful. It might also be a chance to introduce some of the key points. > > A friend was working with a "Celtic" band a winter ago and had to work > mostly on -- endurance, even tempo, how to start and end. Doing so > seemed to suck up quite a bit of energy and take several sessions. > > So, it appears it is also good to know when to bail on an idea in some > fashion if it appears bleak. For any of these one may require more lead > time/contact time that might be expected. > > Cheers, John > -- > J.D. Erskine > Victoria, BC > > Island Dance - Folk & Country > Vancouver Island & BC islands > dance info - site & mail list > http://members.shaw.ca/island.dance/ > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Callers Digest, Vol 18, Issue 11 > ***************************************

9 years, 10 months

Dances For Short Line

by Laur via Callers

Fellow callers, what are things to look for in dances for a short line. I'm afraid that a limited number of dancers will be at an upcoming gig and I want to be prepared in the best possible way, and so am looking for input and for confirmation of my thoughts. They are intermediate/ experienced dancers. Laurie PWest MI ~ When I dance, I cannot judge, I cannot hate, I cannot separate myself from life. I can only be joyful and whole, that is why I dance. ~Hans Bos~ ~

9 years, 10 months

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