Seth and Chris here, the lists founders and (currently) silent members.
The discussions from yesterday and today have generated a lot of traffic
and a lot of emotions. So I'd like to take this opportunity to remind
us all why we are here.
Chris and I started this list to SUPPORT each other and other callers.
Please remember that when writing and responding here. Everyone should
be treated with kindness.
When you write an email, please consider this before you press send: If
you were face to face, would you say the same thing? Does what you are
writing add to the SUPPORT of the community?
And finally, remember that humor and sarcasm are not easily communicated
through email. Please leave sarcasm and jokes out, as the other people
reading your email may not know if you are being serious or not.
Seth & Chris
Concerning dances with shadow swings, Chris Page has noted, "I know Carol Ormand writes and calls them." Because of her advanced scientific training, Carol is undoubtedly certified to handle hazardous material.
For most of the day and evening I've been praying to the Dance Deity about the issue of shadow swings, knowing, all levity aside, that a wrong decision could end me in jail for a week or so (like a certain Kim Davis from Kentucky).
At about 11pm I received a vision from the Dance Deity. Visions are of course difficult to translate into words, but I'll do my best here. According to D.D., any caller attempting a shadow swing dance should (i) meditate for an hour (or as long as needed) to get the the Deity's permission, and, if granted, (ii) get Secret Service clearance and the appropriate CDSS permit. One these two conditions are satisfied, the caller should initially teach the dance with an alternative for the shadow swing. Then, during a second walk-through, the caller should casually and emphatically mention that dancers might want to instead swing with their shadow.
Michael Fuerst 802 N Broadway Urbana IL 61801 217 239 5844
My only observation to add to the shadow swing melee is that while not
completely closed to them, i'm cognizant of the several reasons they are a
less than optimal choice. Given these drawbacks of the figure, i would not
use a shadow swing in a situation with very long sets. If the choreography
of the dance is so awesome i feel a need to use it, and the end effects
aren't prohibitive, i'd consider running it in a situation with short sets
(much as i'd use for a 1s active dance). Why? Because if anyone feels the
need to escape their shadow, they can get to an end of the set and either
jump out or rumble into another set sooner. I think this offers dancers the
best chance to fix a potential issue without singling anyone out or
creating a dynamic on the floor more awkward than the choice of a shadow
swing dance (albeit an exceptional one!) already did.
> Did we give you what you needed? If so, could you let us know and put a stop to the thread? Callers are now more busy calling one another out for getting off topic or being inappropriate than generating new answers.
> Summary of suggestions, as best I remember:
> 1) don't call the dance
> 2) call the dance with the disclaimer farther in advance than the teach.
> 3) call the dance with a substitute choreography, not mentioning the possibility of a swing.
> 4) call the dance and at that place in the dance say: with your shadow either swing or (substitute move) and end x-ly (probably traded places either facing across or with one person facing across ready to do the next move (if the substitute was an allemande 1.5)).
> While some advocated for disclaimers, many felt it is bad for the community to imply from the mic that people might be uncivil. Others objected that some might take the disclaimer as license to avoid dancers for any number of reasons, some being petty prejudices rather than a sense of real danger. Overall there were more voices against disclaimer and for offering an alternative movement should you feel this was the right dance for the moment.
> Correct me if I'm wrong. Could we leave this alone unless someone has a truly new idea for Maia?
> Sent from my iOnlypretendtomultitask
>>> On Sep 9, 2015, at 3:08 PM, Aahz Maruch via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, Sep 08, 2015, Michael Fuerst via Callers wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, September 8, 2015 1:53 PM, Luke Donforth <luke.donev(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 2:43 PM, Michael Fuerst via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>>> Asking about how to appropriately do dances with shadow swings seems
>>>>> like asking how men can appropriately grope women during a dance.
>>>> I again think your attempt to inject levity into a conversation have
>>>> come across as crass and inappropriate. Asking about shadow swings
>>>> on a list for calling is pertinent; joking about men groping women
>>>> dancers isn't.
>>> Your assessment is inaccurate. This is not a matter where levity is
>>> acceptable. Creating a situation which could force someone into close,
>>> almost intimate proximity with a person perceived as emotionally or
>>> physically threatening is inappropriate. A lesser problem is that one
>>> can get a shadow who one considers personable, but very unpleasant
>>> for swinging (for example, due to either height difference, or a body
>>> position or weight distribution which unnecessarily strains one's own
>> Well, I share Luke's assessment. The phrasing you used to compare shadow
>> swings and groping implies either levity or a disregard of the difference
>> between groping and a shadow swing. Regardless of the seriousness with
>> which you view "forcing" a shadow swing, it is clear that many other
>> people disagree, and your comparison is not appropriate, especially given
>> Maia's original request to AVOID any discussion of whether shadow swings
>> are appropriate.
>> Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/
>> <*> <*> <*>
>> Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
>> Callers mailing list
I love Robert Cromartie's "Illegal in Most States" and whenever I call it at least one person comes up afterwards to say it was a wonderful dance.
April Blum On Sep 9, 2015 6:34 PM, Chris Page via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> And yet, they're done. I know Carol Ormand writes and calls them. This Saturday at the contra weekend I attended, a national caller called "Head of the Bed."
> Yes, we've heard your opinion. Avoiding shadow swings be perfect for you, but it may not be for others. And I'd like to hear from the others, rather than having you (or someone else) try and shut down the conversation by repeatedly making absolute statements.
> There is more than one correct point of view.
> (Personally I almost never** use shadow swings, so I don't have much to contribute to this particular conversation. But I enjoy listening to others.)
> -Chris Page
> San Diego
> ** And yet I'm guilty of having written one, and called it at NEFFA. I've got my own hypocrisy.
> On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 3:02 PM, Michael Fuerst <mjerryfuerst(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Chris: The indicates that someone in 2008 (Dave Eisenstadter) other than the composer (Nils Fredland) not call this dance written in 2003.
>> Everyone has become more aware since then.
>> One wonders if Nils still calls this dance
>> Michael Fuerst 802 N Broadway Urbana IL 61801 217 239 5844
>> On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 4:38 PM, Chris Page <chriscpage(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>> Sigh. See "Head of the Bed", written by Nils Fredland.
>> -Chris Page
>> San Diego
I'm alarmed at reading your reply in the shadow swing thread.
I have seen, as a dancer, caller, and organizer, at a variety of dances,
far too many incidents of inappropriate behavior. I refuse to simply wash
my hands and say "oh, it's not the caller's place to worry about this." A
caller is the MC, the coordinator, and often from the stage we can see
everything happening in the room. It absolutely is our paid job to help
create a safe dance space.
I want to focus on what seems to be the crux of your statement from the
shadow swing email:
" that interpersonal conflicts will happen, and yet social interactions are
required. They understand how to make everyone work together. Family
schisms are inevitable."
How many "conflicts" does it take before we take responsibility and address
inappropriate behavior at a dance? I have seen many occasions where *one*
conflict means a dancer who is new never returns, or an experienced dancer
never returns, or they wind up having to spend every night avoiding *that
creepy dude*. I know first hand what having a *single* bad experience can
mean for a dancer.
So if we leave these as "inevitable", then the people we lose aren't the
people doing the inappropriate behavior - no, those jerks stay, stubbornly
- we lose the nicer people who were victimized, harassed, made
Is that the kind of dance environment you want to promote?
I don't believe so.
Instead, asking questions, as Maia did, about things a caller can do to
create a safe dance space, is essential to long term community building.
This doesn't mean we are "dance police" or do anything extraordinary. But
it does mean that we should be considerate to dancers and not write off
their bad experiences as things that they need to merely tolerate and "be
an adult" as you put it.
I'm calling at my home dance this weekend, and my good friend Amy let me know it's her birthday. I want to call some dances with Amy in the title to honor her. Could you please share any Amy titled dances with me? Include instructions if you have them, so I don't have to hunt around.
Amy and I thank you,
Sent from my iPad
Hey fellow members, i unsubscribed a while ago as i was working an online
job that required ridiculous amounts of reading, so i burned out on keeping
up with threads, but i'm back and looking forward to be part of the SW
Meanwhile, amid composing a dance, i had an idea for a new (progressive! no
pun intended) figure. Consider it the hybrid offspring of Moneymusk
balances in non-wavy lines, and Petronella spins to the right. What do you
get? Long lines balance and spin to the right within your line. I don't
have a use for it in anything currently under construction, so thought i'd
put it out there for y'all choreographers to play with if you so choose. If
you do compose something with it, i'd love to see the result!
You may not be aware of how minuscule the font you've chosen for your
email comes out at the email receiver's end, but it's close to
unreadably tiny, as well as being a low-x-height, lightweight serif font
in the first place. If you have any control over your outgoing font
size, goosing it up a few points would be a kindness.