11 Sep
2024
11 Sep
'24
12:54 p.m.
Dear callers,
There isn’t a contra fashion email list, so I’m turning to this one since we all spend a
lot of time looking at dancers :)
Some of you may have seen the recent survey about dancing in skirts/skirts for dancing
that I helped a dancer friend create/disseminate:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfpgbzYSntTZlAgkNvfI8uhISstHGqhPpV…
— feel free to fill it out!
As we were writing up an article about the initial results that includes advice on
choosing skirts for dancing, aimed broadly to include all dancers, I made the following
unsubstantiated claim:
"These results suggest that for contra dancers, the primary benefit of a skirt is the
extent to which it extends, amplifies, and enhances the sensation of the dance –
particularly twirls and other flourishes. History bears this out: a more universal
adoption of flowing and flaring skirts among contra dancers, regardless of gender or prior
style preferences, coincided with the explosion of interest in flourishes and
improvisational elaboration of the basic dance form among contra dancers at the turn of
the 21st century.”
Robert challenged me on the second sentence, asking what evidence I had — and I freely
admitted I was extrapolating from my own lived experience, and had no proof that this was
broadly true. And before you all jump in, I will acknowledge that the phenomenon of
universal skirt-wearing, regardless of gender, also depended quite a lot on the changing
cultural discourse around masculinity — especially in socially progressive communities.
But I’m still interested in the hypothesis that there’s a choreographic/phenomenological
connection.
After all, progressive men have existed in the contra community for a long time and
haven’t (if video/photographic evidence is accurate) always worn skirts for dancing — so
we want to know, when did skirts become familiar enough on every gender that a (person
likely to be interpellated as a) man wearing a skirt was unsurprising?
Thanks for all respectful input,
Louise Siddons
Winchester, UK
11 Sep
11 Sep
3:41 p.m.
My first thought was that if flourishes/improvisation were what were driving men wearing
skirts, it’d result in more women wearing skirts too, which I haven’t noticed. But that
wouldn’t be true if the improv were a more male phenomenon. I don’t dance in enough venues
to be sure, but I kinda think that might be true. (It’s also quite possible I don’t dance
in enough venues to be sure women aren’t wearing skirts more.)
But I’m not convinced—people have enjoyed wearing skirts for contra long before a change
in style of dancing, because the older way of dancing allowed a skirt to move enjoyably
too. Certainly that was a major reason for why I (male) have worn skirts since I started
contra dancing in the early ‘80s, and lots of people (mostly female) who didn’t usually
wear skirts but did for contra said the same. It seems more likely to me that what’s
brought about the change is not the dancing but the guys—skirts were always fun to dance
in, and now men are less afraid of doing it themselves.
Read Weaver
Jamaica Plain, MA
http://lcfd.org
On Sep 11, 2024, at 1:54 PM, Louise Siddons via Contra
Callers <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Dear callers,
There isn’t a contra fashion email list, so I’m turning to this one since we all spend a
lot of time looking at dancers :)
Some of you may have seen the recent survey about dancing in skirts/skirts for dancing
that I helped a dancer friend create/disseminate:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfpgbzYSntTZlAgkNvfI8uhISstHGqhPpV…
— feel free to fill it out!
As we were writing up an article about the initial results that includes advice on
choosing skirts for dancing, aimed broadly to include all dancers, I made the following
unsubstantiated claim:
"These results suggest that for contra dancers, the primary benefit of a skirt is
the extent to which it extends, amplifies, and enhances the sensation of the dance –
particularly twirls and other flourishes. History bears this out: a more universal
adoption of flowing and flaring skirts among contra dancers, regardless of gender or prior
style preferences, coincided with the explosion of interest in flourishes and
improvisational elaboration of the basic dance form among contra dancers at the turn of
the 21st century.”
Robert challenged me on the second sentence, asking what evidence I had — and I freely
admitted I was extrapolating from my own lived experience, and had no proof that this was
broadly true. And before you all jump in, I will acknowledge that the phenomenon of
universal skirt-wearing, regardless of gender, also depended quite a lot on the changing
cultural discourse around masculinity — especially in socially progressive communities.
But I’m still interested in the hypothesis that there’s a choreographic/phenomenological
connection.
After all, progressive men have existed in the contra community for a long time and
haven’t (if video/photographic evidence is accurate) always worn skirts for dancing — so
we want to know, when did skirts become familiar enough on every gender that a (person
likely to be interpellated as a) man wearing a skirt was unsurprising?
Thanks for all respectful input,
Louise Siddons
Winchester, UK
3:44 p.m.
I’ll interpret the question to extend to dresses. When I was first learning
in 1987-1995 I danced in Cambridge, MA. There was one guy who mostly danced
the left role but was flexible about it, and wore a gauzy white dress to
every dance. There were others but none as consistent. At festivals and
special events in the northeast (NEFFA, Flurry, Dawn Dance, etc.), there
were always a few more dresses and skirts on guys than at the weekly
dances. They didn’t seem to dance the right side more or less than the rest
of us, which is to say, some. There was not a suggestion of transgender, to
my recollection. It was presented just as a fashion choice, due to the fun
of twirling. However, at that time, being transgender was understood to
exist, but few people knew anyone who openly was, so I’m not making a
statement about who people really were, just what they wore, appeared, and
requested, and how they interacted. It was maybe 1-3 people out of maybe
70-100 in the hall. Others may have the latter stat more accurately.
—jh—
On Wed, Sep 11, 2024 at 1:55 PM Louise Siddons via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Dear callers,
There isn’t a contra fashion email list, so I’m turning to this one since
we all spend a lot of time looking at dancers :)
Some of you may have seen the recent survey about dancing in skirts/skirts
for dancing that I helped a dancer friend create/disseminate:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfpgbzYSntTZlAgkNvfI8uhISstHGqhPpV…
— feel free to fill it out!
As we were writing up an article about the initial results that includes
advice on choosing skirts for dancing, aimed broadly to include all
dancers, I made the following unsubstantiated claim:
"These results suggest that for contra dancers, the primary benefit of a
skirt is the extent to which it extends, amplifies, and enhances the
sensation of the dance – particularly twirls and other flourishes. History
bears this out: a more universal adoption of flowing and flaring skirts
among contra dancers, regardless of gender or prior style preferences,
coincided with the explosion of interest in flourishes and improvisational
elaboration of the basic dance form among contra dancers at the turn of the
21st century.”
Robert challenged me on the second sentence, asking what evidence I had —
and I freely admitted I was extrapolating from my own lived experience, and
had no proof that this was broadly true. And before you all jump in, I will
acknowledge that the phenomenon of universal skirt-wearing, regardless of
gender, also depended quite a lot on the changing cultural discourse around
masculinity — especially in socially progressive communities. But I’m still
interested in the hypothesis that there’s a choreographic/phenomenological
connection.
After all, progressive men have existed in the contra community for a long
time and haven’t (if video/photographic evidence is accurate) always worn
skirts for dancing — so we want to know, when did skirts become familiar
enough on every gender that a (person likely to be interpellated as a) man
wearing a skirt was unsurprising?
Thanks for all respectful input,
Louise Siddons
Winchester, UK
_______________________________________________
Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
4:49 p.m.
Queen City Contra Dancers in Buffalo NY used to have a blurb about this on
our old website. It was back in the early 90's when we all were first
getting stuff up on line. It was written by the (I believe) husband of one
of the original originators of our group. If I can get my hands on it I'll
share it but skirts for all genders have been around for many many years
now!
Mary Collins
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who
couldn't hear the music." - Nietzsche
“Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass ... it's about learning
to dance in the rain!” ~ unknown
On Wed, Sep 11, 2024 at 1:55 PM Louise Siddons via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Dear callers,
There isn’t a contra fashion email list, so I’m turning to this one since
we all spend a lot of time looking at dancers :)
Some of you may have seen the recent survey about dancing in skirts/skirts
for dancing that I helped a dancer friend create/disseminate:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfpgbzYSntTZlAgkNvfI8uhISstHGqhPpV…
— feel free to fill it out!
As we were writing up an article about the initial results that includes
advice on choosing skirts for dancing, aimed broadly to include all
dancers, I made the following unsubstantiated claim:
"These results suggest that for contra dancers, the primary benefit of a
skirt is the extent to which it extends, amplifies, and enhances the
sensation of the dance – particularly twirls and other flourishes. History
bears this out: a more universal adoption of flowing and flaring skirts
among contra dancers, regardless of gender or prior style preferences,
coincided with the explosion of interest in flourishes and improvisational
elaboration of the basic dance form among contra dancers at the turn of the
21st century.”
Robert challenged me on the second sentence, asking what evidence I had —
and I freely admitted I was extrapolating from my own lived experience, and
had no proof that this was broadly true. And before you all jump in, I will
acknowledge that the phenomenon of universal skirt-wearing, regardless of
gender, also depended quite a lot on the changing cultural discourse around
masculinity — especially in socially progressive communities. But I’m still
interested in the hypothesis that there’s a choreographic/phenomenological
connection.
After all, progressive men have existed in the contra community for a long
time and haven’t (if video/photographic evidence is accurate) always worn
skirts for dancing — so we want to know, when did skirts become familiar
enough on every gender that a (person likely to be interpellated as a) man
wearing a skirt was unsurprising?
Thanks for all respectful input,
Louise Siddons
Winchester, UK
_______________________________________________
Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
5:11 p.m.
Thank you to everyone replying!
Re: twirly skirts have been around for a long time: for me, “the turn of the 21st century”
encompasses the 1990s (which is 35 years ago, which may or may not feel to any of us like
“many many years” ago but objectively speaking is before many of the people in the contra
community were born :)
Part of what I want to establish is that this is not a new phenomenon — even though it
hasn’t been systematically documented as far as I (and fwiw, a colleague of mine who is an
expert in men’s and queer men’s fashion history) know.
For me, all-gender contra skirts are interesting partly because they appear to separate
the garment from its gendered connotations quite successfully — I don’t think most contra
dancers these days would look at a male-bodied dancer wearing a skirt and say “ah, they
are being effeminate”.
Dresses, though, are a curious subcategory in this regard, as I would say that in my dance
communities they are still used to signpost queerness.
Louise.
On 11 Sep 2024, at 22:50, Mary Collins
<nativedae(a)gmail.com> wrote:
[snip]
skirts for all genders have been around for many many years now!
>
5:26 p.m.
Louise,
dresses? I believe that I've seen some hetero men, with children, in
diamond drop earrings and dresses, I could be mis reading them too....
I really don't care except they often look WAAAAY better than me!
lol....dance with who comes at you no matter how they appear!
Mary
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who
couldn't hear the music." - Nietzsche
“Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass ... it's about learning
to dance in the rain!” ~ unknown
On Wed, Sep 11, 2024 at 6:12 PM Louise Siddons <lesiddons(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you to everyone replying!
Re: twirly skirts have been around for a long time: for me, “the turn of
the 21st century” encompasses the 1990s (which is 35 years ago, which may
or may not feel to any of us like “many many years” ago but objectively
speaking is before many of the people in the contra community were born :)
Part of what I want to establish is that this is not a new phenomenon —
even though it hasn’t been systematically documented as far as I (and fwiw,
a colleague of mine who is an expert in men’s and queer men’s fashion
history) know.
For me, all-gender contra skirts are interesting partly because they
appear to separate the garment from its gendered connotations quite
successfully — I don’t think most contra dancers these days would look at a
male-bodied dancer wearing a skirt and say “ah, they are being effeminate”.
Dresses, though, are a curious subcategory in this regard, as I would say
that in my dance communities they are still used to signpost queerness.
Louise.
On 11 Sep 2024, at 22:50, Mary Collins <nativedae(a)gmail.com> wrote:
[snip]
skirts for all genders have been around for many many years now!
>
>
5:46 p.m.
Here's another question to throw in the mix: ENTIRELY ANECDOTALLY, I feel
like lately (last few years, maybe post-lockdown?) I've been seeing
*fewer* men*
in skirts than I did before. Does anyone else perceive that shift? Anyone
have theories about what's going on here?
*people who I know to be men or people I perceive to be men, as imperfect
as this is
Cheers,
Maia (in Brooklyn)
--
Maia McCormick (she/her)
917.279.8194
On Wed, Sep 11, 2024 at 6:26 PM Mary Collins via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Louise,
dresses? I believe that I've seen some hetero men, with children, in
diamond drop earrings and dresses, I could be mis reading them too....
I really don't care except they often look WAAAAY better than me!
lol....dance with who comes at you no matter how they appear!
Mary
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who
couldn't hear the music." - Nietzsche
“Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass ... it's about learning
to dance in the rain!” ~ unknown
On Wed, Sep 11, 2024 at 6:12 PM Louise Siddons <lesiddons(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Thank you to everyone replying!
Re: twirly skirts have been around for a long time: for me, “the turn of
the 21st century” encompasses the 1990s (which is 35 years ago, which may
or may not feel to any of us like “many many years” ago but objectively
speaking is before many of the people in the contra community were born :)
Part of what I want to establish is that this is not a new phenomenon —
even though it hasn’t been systematically documented as far as I (and fwiw,
a colleague of mine who is an expert in men’s and queer men’s fashion
history) know.
For me, all-gender contra skirts are interesting partly because they
appear to separate the garment from its gendered connotations quite
successfully — I don’t think most contra dancers these days would look at a
male-bodied dancer wearing a skirt and say “ah, they are being effeminate”.
Dresses, though, are a curious subcategory in this regard, as I would say
that in my dance communities they are still used to signpost queerness.
Louise.
On 11 Sep 2024, at 22:50, Mary Collins <nativedae(a)gmail.com> wrote:
[snip]
skirts for all genders have been around for many many years now!
>
> _______________________________________________
Contra Callers mailing list --
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
12 Sep
12 Sep
1:04 p.m.
Maia,
Anecdotally, I've observed similar-ish.
Typically more queer dances have more men-passing people in skirts, but I
suspect strongly it's just that these are gender non-conforming men and
nonbinary people wearing skirts and dresses because they're queer and
comfortable in them in day to day life.
Contrast this with "men in skirts at contra" which seems to me to be more
about "I wear this clothing _only_ at dances."
So, I agree, I wonder if cishet men are wearing skirts at contras now less
frequently. I wonder if the increase in queer-coded femme-y fashion on men
/ male-passing people has somehow changed the context and cishet men who
used to dance in skirts aren't any more partly because of this?
Louise,
thanks for starting this topic. This has been an interesting read!
In dance
Julian Blechner
Western Mass
On Wed, Sep 11, 2024, 6:47 PM Maia McCormick via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Here's another question to throw in the mix:
ENTIRELY ANECDOTALLY, I feel
like lately (last few years, maybe post-lockdown?) I've been seeing
*fewer* men* in skirts than I did before. Does anyone else perceive that
shift? Anyone have theories about what's going on here?
*people who I know to be men or people I perceive to be men, as imperfect
as this is
Cheers,
Maia (in Brooklyn)
--
Maia McCormick (she/her)
917.279.8194
On Wed, Sep 11, 2024 at 6:26 PM Mary Collins via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Louise,
dresses? I believe that I've seen some hetero men, with children, in
diamond drop earrings and dresses, I could be mis reading them too....
I really don't care except they often look WAAAAY better than me!
lol....dance with who comes at you no matter how they appear!
Mary
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who
couldn't hear the music." - Nietzsche
“Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass ... it's about learning
to dance in the rain!” ~ unknown
On Wed, Sep 11, 2024 at 6:12 PM Louise Siddons <lesiddons(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
_______________________________________________
Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Thank you to everyone replying!
Re: twirly skirts have been around for a long time: for me, “the turn of
the 21st century” encompasses the 1990s (which is 35 years ago, which may
or may not feel to any of us like “many many years” ago but objectively
speaking is before many of the people in the contra community were born :)
Part of what I want to establish is that this is not a new phenomenon —
even though it hasn’t been systematically documented as far as I (and fwiw,
a colleague of mine who is an expert in men’s and queer men’s fashion
history) know.
For me, all-gender contra skirts are interesting partly because they
appear to separate the garment from its gendered connotations quite
successfully — I don’t think most contra dancers these days would look at a
male-bodied dancer wearing a skirt and say “ah, they are being effeminate”.
Dresses, though, are a curious subcategory in this regard, as I would
say that in my dance communities they are still used to signpost queerness.
Louise.
On 11 Sep 2024, at 22:50, Mary Collins <nativedae(a)gmail.com> wrote:
[snip]
skirts for all genders have been around for many many years now!
>
> _______________________________________________
Contra Callers mailing list --
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to
contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
11 Sep
11 Sep
6:25 p.m.
On 09/11/2024 15:11, Louise Siddons via Contra Callers wrote:
separate the garment from its gendered connotations
Louise,
I started wearing skirts because they were more comfortable than jeans
over a fairly substantial knee brace. Turns out they are better for
ventilation, too.
I definitely enjoy the twirl effect, and find the skirt a practical tool
for guiding the directionally-challenged through a hey. I've had fun
making up silly answers when asked why I'm wearing a skirt, always
trying to communicate the contra community's openness and acceptance,
which goes far beyond fashion choices.
Bob H (Nevada)
6:41 p.m.
Seems the edge of memory here so far is around 1990. Does anyone have
access to a photo or video archive from before, say at the CDSS?
—jh—
On Wed, Sep 11, 2024 at 7:25 PM Bob Hofkin via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
On 09/11/2024 15:11, Louise Siddons via Contra Callers
wrote:
separate the garment from its gendered
connotations
Louise,
I started wearing skirts because they were more comfortable than jeans
over a fairly substantial knee brace. Turns out they are better for
ventilation, too.
I definitely enjoy the twirl effect, and find the skirt a practical tool
for guiding the directionally-challenged through a hey. I've had fun
making up silly answers when asked why I'm wearing a skirt, always
trying to communicate the contra community's openness and acceptance,
which goes far beyond fashion choices.
Bob H (Nevada)
_______________________________________________
Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
8:29 p.m.
I started dancing in NY/NJ in the 1970's, and called contra and English
until mid-80's - and then had about a 15 year hiatus. Before my break I
only remember one male (to judge from facial and body hair) who regularly
wore dresses or skirts to dances. After I returned to dancing, there was a
gradual increase, though in the beginning it seemed some men chose kilts as
a way to mute the statement. And then....
I should note that my memory is not known for being accurate, so this is
just an observation, not a definitive statement. A source for more
extensive information would be CDSS, which has pictures from camps for many
years; and the Pinewoods archives also have many pictures. If one lives
near the U. of New Hampshire, the CDSS archives are there and should be a
useful source.
David
On Wed, Sep 11, 2024 at 7:42 PM Joe Harrington via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Seems the edge of memory here so far is around 1990.
Does anyone have
access to a photo or video archive from before, say at the CDSS?
—jh—
On Wed, Sep 11, 2024 at 7:25 PM Bob Hofkin via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
On 09/11/2024 15:11, Louise Siddons via Contra
Callers wrote:
_______________________________________________
Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
separate the garment from its gendered
connotations
Louise,
I started wearing skirts because they were more comfortable than jeans
over a fairly substantial knee brace. Turns out they are better for
ventilation, too.
I definitely enjoy the twirl effect, and find the skirt a practical tool
for guiding the directionally-challenged through a hey. I've had fun
making up silly answers when asked why I'm wearing a skirt, always
trying to communicate the contra community's openness and acceptance,
which goes far beyond fashion choices.
Bob H (Nevada)
_______________________________________________
Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to
contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
12 Sep
12 Sep
4:31 a.m.
This is a fun question.
I'd propose that people wearing clothing styles that are contrary to
tradition occurs where there's acceptance and encouragement for play and
self-expression, generally. From that perspective, I'm landing on the
thought that it's not a "which came first," the flourishes or the skirts,
but rather what came first is an environment that nurtures the
extra curlicue or do-dad for no reason other than it's someone's idea of
fun.
To share some of my rabbit hole as I explored skirted clothing and dance,
here're a few videos I enjoyed seeing:
Skirts for dance without twirls:
"HAWAII - 1960s - Men and women perform hula dances in grass skirts in
Hawaii."
https://www.shutterstock.com/video/clip-3417132785-hawaii---1960s-men-women…
"Solomon islands - 1931 - in this ethnographic film, alleged cannibals of
the solomon islands are introduced as a particularly bloodthirsty tribe."
https://www.shutterstock.com/video/clip-1110464247-solomon-islands---1931-t…
Pina Bausch!! The most ordinary clothing is a costume.
IDAS FRÜHLINGSOPFER | THE RITE OF SPRING | Pina Bausch
https://youtu.be/z3vZeAmcjf4?si=UAXnjHvk6hDUT9-Q
Comic dance.
Swan Lake Act II - Little Swans - Les Ballets Trockadero de Monte Carlo
https://youtu.be/F83BbbtoX8Q?si=2srNnSp3AzdFJjyx
Graham.
[image: image.png]
Martha Graham performing “Letter to the World” (also called “The Kick”),
1940.
Photo by Barbara Morgan (public domain)
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Martha-Graham
Hope you enjoy those.
Rob
Conway, AR
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Robert Matson
Innovation Media Corp.
The Innovation Works, Inc.
Cell: (917) 626-2675
On Wed, Sep 11, 2024 at 8:30 PM David Chandler via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I started dancing in NY/NJ in the 1970's, and called contra and English
until
mid-80's - and then had about a 15 year hiatus. Before my break I
only remember one male (to judge from facial and body hair) who regularly
wore dresses or skirts to dances. After I returned to dancing, there was a
gradual increase, though in the beginning it seemed some men chose kilts as
a way to mute the statement. And then....
I should note that my memory is not known for being accurate, so this is
just an
observation, not a definitive statement. A source for more
extensive information would be CDSS, which has pictures from camps for many
years; and the Pinewoods archives also have many pictures. If one lives
near the U. of New Hampshire, the CDSS archives are there and should be a
useful source.
David
On Wed, Sep 11, 2024 at 7:42 PM Joe Harrington via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> Seems the edge of memory here so far is around 1990. Does anyone have
access to
a photo or video archive from before, say at the CDSS?
>
> —jh—
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 11, 2024 at 7:25 PM Bob Hofkin via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>> On 09/11/2024 15:11, Louise Siddons via Contra Callers wrote:
>> > separate the garment from its gendered connotations
>>
>> Louise,
>>
>> I started wearing skirts because they were more comfortable than jeans
>> over a fairly substantial knee brace. Turns out they are better for
>> ventilation, too.
>>
>> I definitely enjoy the twirl effect, and find the skirt a practical tool
>> for guiding the directionally-challenged through a hey. I've had fun
>> making up silly answers when asked why I'm wearing a skirt, always
>> trying to communicate the contra community's openness and acceptance,
>> which goes far beyond fashion choices.
>>
>> Bob H (Nevada)
>> _______________________________________________
>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to
contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to
contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
4:35 a.m.
This is a fun question.
I'd propose that people wearing clothing styles that are contrary to
tradition occurs where there's acceptance and encouragement for play and
self-expression, generally. From that perspective, I'm landing on the
thought that it's not a "which came first," the flourishes or the skirts,
but rather what came first is an environment that nurtures the
extra curlicue or do-dad for no reason other than it's someone's idea of
fun.
To share some of my rabbit hole as I explored skirted clothing and dance,
here're a few videos I enjoyed seeing:
Skirts for dance without twirls:
"HAWAII - 1960s - Men and women perform hula dances in grass skirts in
Hawaii."
https://www.shutterstock.com/video/clip-3417132785-hawaii---1960s-men-women…
"Solomon islands - 1931 - in this ethnographic film, alleged cannibals of
the solomon islands are introduced as a particularly bloodthirsty tribe."
https://www.shutterstock.com/video/clip-1110464247-solomon-islands---1931-t…
Pina Bausch!! The most ordinary clothing is a costume.
IDAS FRÜHLINGSOPFER | THE RITE OF SPRING | Pina Bausch
https://youtu.be/z3vZeAmcjf4?si=UAXnjHvk6hDUT9-Q
Comic dance.
Swan Lake Act II - Little Swans - Les Ballets Trockadero de Monte Carlo
https://youtu.be/F83BbbtoX8Q?si=2srNnSp3AzdFJjyx
Graham.
Martha Graham performing “Letter to the World” (also called “The Kick”),
1940.
Photo by Barbara Morgan (public domain)
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Martha-Graham
Hope you enjoy those.
Rob
Conway, AR
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Robert Matson
Innovation Media Corp.
The Innovation Works, Inc.
Cell: (917) 626-2675
On Wed, Sep 11, 2024 at 8:30 PM David Chandler via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I started dancing in NY/NJ in the 1970's, and called contra and English
until
mid-80's - and then had about a 15 year hiatus. Before my break I
only remember one male (to judge from facial and body hair) who regularly
wore dresses or skirts to dances. After I returned to dancing, there was a
gradual increase, though in the beginning it seemed some men chose kilts as
a way to mute the statement. And then....
I should note that my memory is not known for being accurate, so this is
just an
observation, not a definitive statement. A source for more
extensive information would be CDSS, which has pictures from camps for many
years; and the Pinewoods archives also have many pictures. If one lives
near the U. of New Hampshire, the CDSS archives are there and should be a
useful source.
David
On Wed, Sep 11, 2024 at 7:42 PM Joe Harrington via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> Seems the edge of memory here so far is around 1990. Does anyone have
access
to a photo or video archive from before, say at the CDSS?
>
> —jh—
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 11, 2024 at 7:25 PM Bob Hofkin via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>> On 09/11/2024 15:11, Louise Siddons via Contra Callers wrote:
>> > separate the garment from its gendered connotations
>>
>> Louise,
>>
>> I started wearing skirts because they were more comfortable than jeans
>> over a fairly substantial knee brace. Turns out they are better for
>> ventilation, too.
>>
>> I definitely enjoy the twirl effect, and find the skirt a practical
tool
>> for guiding the directionally-challenged
through a hey. I've had fun
>> making up silly answers when asked why I'm wearing a skirt, always
>> trying to communicate the contra community's openness and acceptance,
>> which goes far beyond fashion choices.
>>
>> Bob H (Nevada)
>> _______________________________________________
>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to
contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to
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_______________________________________________
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contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
10:06 a.m.
As usual, context matters a lot. When I was dancing in Boston, there were
plenty of cisgender men (in addition to other non-cis-woman genders)
wearing skirts. Now that I'm back in Florida, seeing a non-woman in a dress
or skirt is highly unusual, but no one causes a stink about it. In fact,
the only time I can remember seeing a skirt on a non-woman at my local
dance was recently: a sparkly dress on a little boy (or nonbinary or trans
kid, unknown).
I can't speak to Maia's notion that maybe skirts are less popular now OTHER
than to add my own anecdata: I've stopped wearing skirts to dances largely
for gender reasons. I'm a nonbinary person who dances the left-hand and
right-hand roles at my dance equally, and have found that folks' perception
of me goes better when I wear pants. Maybe there are other AFAB folks who
are queer-coding more by wearing skirts and dresses less?
Ang (they/them)
On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 5:35 AM Robert Matson via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
This is a fun question.
I'd propose that people wearing clothing styles that are contrary to
tradition occurs where there's acceptance and encouragement for play and
self-expression, generally. From that perspective, I'm landing on the
thought that it's not a "which came first," the flourishes or the skirts,
but rather what came first is an environment that nurtures the
extra curlicue or do-dad for no reason other than it's someone's idea of
fun.
To share some of my rabbit hole as I explored skirted clothing and dance,
here're a few videos I enjoyed seeing:
Skirts for dance without twirls:
"HAWAII - 1960s - Men and women perform hula dances in grass skirts in
Hawaii."
https://www.shutterstock.com/video/clip-3417132785-hawaii---1960s-men-women…
"Solomon islands - 1931 - in this ethnographic film, alleged cannibals of
the solomon islands are introduced as a particularly bloodthirsty tribe."
https://www.shutterstock.com/video/clip-1110464247-solomon-islands---1931-t…
Pina Bausch!! The most ordinary clothing is a costume.
IDAS FRÜHLINGSOPFER | THE RITE OF SPRING | Pina Bausch
https://youtu.be/z3vZeAmcjf4?si=UAXnjHvk6hDUT9-Q
Comic dance.
Swan Lake Act II - Little Swans - Les Ballets Trockadero de Monte Carlo
https://youtu.be/F83BbbtoX8Q?si=2srNnSp3AzdFJjyx
Graham.
Martha Graham performing “Letter to the World” (also called “The Kick”),
1940.
Photo by Barbara Morgan (public domain)
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Martha-Graham
Hope you enjoy those.
Rob
Conway, AR
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Robert Matson
Innovation Media Corp.
The Innovation Works, Inc.
Cell: (917) 626-2675
On Wed, Sep 11, 2024 at 8:30 PM David Chandler via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
_______________________________________________
Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
I started dancing in NY/NJ in the 1970's, and called contra and English
until
mid-80's - and then had about a 15 year hiatus. Before my break I
only remember one male (to judge from facial and body hair) who regularly
wore dresses or skirts to dances. After I returned to dancing, there was a
gradual increase, though in the beginning it seemed some men chose kilts as
a way to mute the statement. And then....
I should note that my memory is not known for being accurate, so this
is just an
observation, not a definitive statement. A source for more
extensive information would be CDSS, which has pictures from camps for many
years; and the Pinewoods archives also have many pictures. If one lives
near the U. of New Hampshire, the CDSS archives are there and should be a
useful source.
David
On Wed, Sep 11, 2024 at 7:42 PM Joe Harrington via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> Seems the edge of memory here so far is around 1990. Does anyone have
access
to a photo or video archive from before, say at the CDSS?
>
> —jh—
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 11, 2024 at 7:25 PM Bob Hofkin via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>> On 09/11/2024 15:11, Louise Siddons via Contra Callers wrote:
>> > separate the garment from its gendered connotations
>>
>> Louise,
>>
>> I started wearing skirts because they were more comfortable than jeans
>> over a fairly substantial knee brace. Turns out they are better for
>> ventilation, too.
>>
>> I definitely enjoy the twirl effect, and find the skirt a practical
tool
>> for guiding the directionally-challenged
through a hey. I've had fun
>> making up silly answers when asked why I'm wearing a skirt, always
>> trying to communicate the contra community's openness and acceptance,
>> which goes far beyond fashion choices.
>>
>> Bob H (Nevada)
>> _______________________________________________
>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to
contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to
contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to
contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
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days inactive
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days old
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
13 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
Angela DeCarlis -
Bob Hofkin -
David Chandler -
Joe Harrington -
Julian Blechner -
Louise Siddons -
Maia McCormick -
Mary Collins -
Read Weaver -
Robert Matson