31 Aug
2012
31 Aug
'12
9:58 p.m.
I just noticed that these two dances, Unruly Reunion by Robert Cromartie
and Monterey Detour by Bob Dalsemer, are identical. I don't know if
I've picked up modified versions, or if they're simply examples of
parallel evolution.
There must be other known cases of identical dances with different
names. Anyone know a few? It happens in English occasionally as well
(Take a Dance and Ore Boggy being the most well-known).
Kalia
31 Aug
31 Aug
10:25 p.m.
The order of the circles is different Unruly starts left, Monterey starts
right.
-Chris Page
San Diego
On Friday, August 31, 2012, Kalia Kliban wrote:
I just noticed that these two dances, Unruly Reunion
by Robert Cromartie
and Monterey Detour by Bob Dalsemer, are identical. I don't know if I've
picked up modified versions, or if they're simply examples of parallel
evolution.
There must be other known cases of identical dances with different names.
Anyone know a few? It happens in English occasionally as well (Take a
Dance and Ore Boggy being the most well-known).
Kalia
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1 Sep
1 Sep
2:04 a.m.
There are several dances out there with "parallel evolution":
Corner Triplet (Linda Leslie) and David's Triplet 1.5 by David
Smukler. We figured out that my version was written first.
Tenth Year in Tommerup (Linda Leslie). Same dance by Greg Frock called
Hopping Tiger, Baby Squirrel. I have not had the opportunity to talk
with Greg about who might have written the dance at an earlier date.
I know I have run across a few others, but have not kept tract of them.
Linda
On Aug 31, 2012, at 5:58 PM, Kalia Kliban wrote:
I just noticed that these two dances, Unruly Reunion
by Robert
Cromartie and Monterey Detour by Bob Dalsemer, are identical. I
don't know if I've picked up modified versions, or if they're simply
examples of parallel evolution.
There must be other known cases of identical dances with different
names. Anyone know a few? It happens in English occasionally as
well (Take a Dance and Ore Boggy being the most well-known).
Kalia
6:59 a.m.
On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 7:04 PM, Linda Leslie <laleslierjg(a)comcast.net> wrote:
Tenth Year in Tommerup (Linda Leslie). Same dance by
Greg Frock called
Hopping Tiger, Baby Squirrel. I have not had the opportunity to talk with
Greg about who might have written the dance at an earlier date.
I know I have run across a few others, but have not kept tract of them.
Linda
And they're both idential to "Practice Petronella" by Tom Lehmann.
I've written several dances that other people have written or wrote later.
There's numerous duplication if you look close. I've even run across a
few cases of callers accidentally duplicating their own dance,
publishing two different names with the exact same moves.
-Chris Page
San Diego
12:32 p.m.
Old Time Elixer #2 by Linda Leslie and Tica Tica Timing by Dean Snipes are
darn close, the difference being a right and left through versus a
promenade across. (They're both fabulously fun petronella dances).
As for choreographers slipping up and writing their own dance twice, it
wouldn't surprise me, but it also may be that they changed the name when
they found something that suited better. I personally find naming dances
harder than writing them.
I know I've re-created dances that already existed; although it can be hard
to say if I'm writing them myself, or pulling them out of my dance memory,
It'd be fun to see a cladistic taxonomy of contra dances (and related
forms), showing the similarities and differences; be they regional,
composer, historic, or otherwise. I don't remember which caller, but
someone broke contra dances in to primarily 1 swing and 2 swing dances
(with some others), and then branches 2 swing dances into dances where the
swings are in adjacent phrases (ex A2 & B1) or non-adjacent. That type of
tree system could be the basis for basis for classifying dances and keeping
track of how close your dances are to others (you'd still need a database
of existing dances to compare to).
On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 2:59 AM, Chris Page <chriscpage(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 7:04 PM, Linda Leslie
<laleslierjg(a)comcast.net>
wrote:
--
Luke Donforth
Luke.Donforth(a)gmail.com <Luke.Donev(a)gmail.com>
www.lukedonev.com
Tenth Year in Tommerup (Linda Leslie). Same dance
by Greg Frock called
Hopping Tiger, Baby Squirrel. I have not had the opportunity to talk with
Greg about who might have written the dance at an earlier date.
I know I have run across a few others, but have not kept tract of them.
Linda
And they're both idential to "Practice Petronella" by Tom Lehmann.
I've written several dances that other people have written or wrote later.
There's numerous duplication if you look close. I've even run across a
few cases of callers accidentally duplicating their own dance,
publishing two different names with the exact same moves.
-Chris Page
San Diego
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2:51 p.m.
I guess my day-job is showing (librarian), but the idea of a cladistic taxonomy is
fabulous! Even if there were a code for the various options and we added that code to our
records so that (eventually we would see the connections even without consulting the
actual tree. Hmmm - if only I had another life to have time for such an adventure...
Dorcas
-----Original Message-----
From: callers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net [mailto:callers-bounces@sharedweight.net] On Behalf
Of Luke Donforth
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2012 7:33 AM
To: Caller's discussion list
Subject: Re: [Callers] Unruly Reunion/Monterey Detour
Old Time Elixer #2 by Linda Leslie and Tica Tica Timing by Dean Snipes are darn close, the
difference being a right and left through versus a promenade across. (They're both
fabulously fun petronella dances).
As for choreographers slipping up and writing their own dance twice, it wouldn't
surprise me, but it also may be that they changed the name when they found something that
suited better. I personally find naming dances harder than writing them.
I know I've re-created dances that already existed; although it can be hard to say if
I'm writing them myself, or pulling them out of my dance memory,
It'd be fun to see a cladistic taxonomy of contra dances (and related forms), showing
the similarities and differences; be they regional, composer, historic, or otherwise. I
don't remember which caller, but someone broke contra dances in to primarily 1 swing
and 2 swing dances (with some others), and then branches 2 swing dances into dances where
the swings are in adjacent phrases (ex A2 & B1) or non-adjacent. That type of tree
system could be the basis for basis for classifying dances and keeping track of how close
your dances are to others (you'd still need a database of existing dances to compare
to).
On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 2:59 AM, Chris Page <chriscpage(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 7:04 PM, Linda Leslie
<laleslierjg(a)comcast.net>
wrote:
--
Luke Donforth
Luke.Donforth(a)gmail.com <Luke.Donev(a)gmail.com> www.lukedonev.com
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
Tenth Year in Tommerup (Linda Leslie). Same dance
by Greg Frock
called Hopping Tiger, Baby Squirrel. I have not had the opportunity
to talk with Greg about who might have written the dance at an earlier date.
I know I have run across a few others, but have not kept tract of them.
Linda
And they're both idential to "Practice Petronella" by Tom Lehmann.
I've written several dances that other people have written or wrote later.
There's numerous duplication if you look close. I've even run across a
few cases of callers accidentally duplicating their own dance,
publishing two different names with the exact same moves.
-Chris Page
San Diego
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
2 Sep
2 Sep
3:24 p.m.
Rickey, Dorcas,
I think you could go either way. If you had a huge database of dances with
the moves entered in standard formatting, you could look at their "genetic
code" and pull out key markers that would give key groupings. I'm going
outside my own field, but I think this is a common technique in
biology/genetics. The "Dance DNA" would be significantly shorter than a
standard set of DNA.
Alternatively, you could decide on a classification system ahead of time,
and file/mark things determined by pre-existing criteria.
I think the second would be easier and more intuitive, but the first might
yield more surprising insights.
On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 10:51 AM, Dorcas Hand <handd51(a)tekkmail.com> wrote:
I guess my day-job is showing (librarian), but the
idea of a cladistic
taxonomy is fabulous! Even if there were a code for the various options and
we added that code to our records so that (eventually we would see the
connections even without consulting the actual tree. Hmmm - if only I had
another life to have time for such an adventure...
Dorcas
-----Original Message-----
It'd be fun to see a cladistic taxonomy of contra dances (and related
forms), showing the similarities and differences; be they regional,
composer, historic, or otherwise. I don't remember which caller, but
someone broke contra dances in to primarily 1 swing and 2 swing dances
(with some others), and then branches 2 swing dances into dances where the
swings are in adjacent phrases (ex A2 & B1) or non-adjacent. That type of
tree system could be the basis for basis for classifying dances and keeping
track of how close your dances are to others (you'd still need a database
of existing dances to compare to).
1 Sep
1 Sep
12:48 p.m.
One fun pair of identical dances I have is called Fickle Finger of
Fate by Don Lennartson (sp?) and Fidgity Feet by Mark Richardson.
It's a fun short-wave Rory O'More-type dance with a couple of "sling
shot allemandes" (as I like to think of them), one into the wave, and
the second into a full Hey for 4.
I usually announce it as F3 rather than F2 (sorry, Mark!).
Joy Greenwolfe
Durham, NC
On Sep 1, 2012, at 2:59 AM, Chris Page wrote:
On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 7:04 PM, Linda Leslie
<laleslierjg(a)comcast.net> wrote:
Tenth Year in Tommerup (Linda Leslie). Same dance
by Greg Frock
called
Hopping Tiger, Baby Squirrel. I have not had the opportunity to
talk with
Greg about who might have written the dance at an earlier date.
I know I have run across a few others, but have not kept tract of
them.
Linda
And they're both idential to "Practice Petronella" by Tom Lehmann.
I've written several dances that other people have written or wrote
later.
There's numerous duplication if you look close. I've even run across a
few cases of callers accidentally duplicating their own dance,
publishing two different names with the exact same moves.
-Chris Page
San Diego
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers 
4 a.m.
I know of two other instances of two persons writing essentially the same dance.
(1) Jim Kitch and Al Olson independently wrote the following sequence:
Improper
A1 Alm left N 1 1/2 and swing a 2nd (new) neighbor
A2 Alm left a 3rd N once, pass right shoulders with the one you swung,
and swing your original N
The two dances had the same B1 (I don't remember if it's
W alm L 1 1/2 and partners swing or Circle Left 3/4 and partners
swing, or something else)
But the two dances differ only in the B2.
Al Olson's version is called "The Empty Crack." I do not
recall the name of Jim's version
(2) Mark Richardson from Bloomington IN and someone (in California I think)
independently wrote the same dance. I do not recall the name of either.
I'm a bit surprised near duplicate dances are not identified more often
Michael Fuerst 802 N Broadway Urbana IL 61801 217-239-5844
Links to photos of many of my drawings and paintings are at www.ArtComesFuerst.com
________________________________
From: Kalia Kliban <kalia(a)sbcglobal.net>
To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 4:58 PM
Subject: [Callers] Unruly Reunion/Monterey Detour
I just noticed that these two dances, Unruly Reunion by Robert Cromartie and Monterey
Detour by Bob Dalsemer, are identical. I don't know if I've picked up modified
versions, or if they're simply examples of parallel evolution.
There must be other known cases of identical dances with different names. Anyone know a
few? It happens in English occasionally as well (Take a Dance and Ore Boggy being the
most well-known).
Kalia
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8 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
Chris Page -
Dorcas Hand -
Joy Greenwolfe -
Kalia Kliban -
Linda Leslie -
Luke Donforth -
Michael Fuerst