18 Oct
2008
18 Oct
'08
9:42 p.m.
Hullo List,
Just ran across a Contra dance choreography entry on ye olde Wikipedia.
That handy, mildly suspect, group contribution or back-room handled
centre for information/ego/slander (pick one).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contra_dance_choreography
It looks fundamentally correct to my less experienced eye and I wonder
if anyone on here has already vetted it or at least perused it for
validity, which I'd like before recommending it to folks.
This is part of a root section on Contra dance which seemingly has more
references, though there still seems to be a call for citations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contra_dance
Thanks, John
J.D. Erskine
Victoria, BC
19 Oct
19 Oct
3:53 a.m.
John,
There is a mistake in the definition of "count." The article says a count
is "A count (as used above) is one half of a musical measure, such as one
quarter note in 2/4 time or three eighth notes in 6/8 time."
It would be more accurate to say that a count is one "beat" of a measure.
For example, in 4/4 time, there would be four counts/beats per measure.
There are a number of 4/4 tunes played for contra dances so say that all
tunes are 2/4 or 3/8 time is inaccurate. A slightly important mistake is to
say that 1 quarter note in 2/4 time is a count/beat. It would be a half
note, not a quarter note.
Ok, with the exception of that rather minor mistake, the rest of the article
seemed pretty accurate to me. The descriptions seemed well-described.
One quibble with the definition of a California Twirl. The definition
states the convenient hands joined. I think of a California Twirl
specifically as the gent's right hand and ladies left hand being joined.
I've heard a couple of callers use "Navada Twirl" for the flip situation of
having the gent's left hand and ladies right hand joined.
I'd be curious to know whether the rest of you use California twirl to mean
the more general "convenient" hands or the more specific "gent's right
and
lady's left."
Thanks.
Mark Hillegonds
Phone: 734-747-7148
Cell: 734-756-8441
Email: mhillegonds(a)comcast.net
-----Original Message-----
From: callers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net
[mailto:callers-bounces@sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of JD Erskine
Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 4:42 PM
To: SharedWeight - Callers list
Subject: [Callers] Wikipedia Contra choreography entry thoughts
Hullo List,
Just ran across a Contra dance choreography entry on ye olde Wikipedia.
That handy, mildly suspect, group contribution or back-room handled
centre for information/ego/slander (pick one).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contra_dance_choreography
It looks fundamentally correct to my less experienced eye and I wonder
if anyone on here has already vetted it or at least perused it for
validity, which I'd like before recommending it to folks.
This is part of a root section on Contra dance which seemingly has more
references, though there still seems to be a call for citations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contra_dance
Thanks, John
J.D. Erskine
Victoria, BC
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10:56 p.m.
On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 10:53:32PM -0400, Mark Hillegonds wrote:
There is a mistake in the definition of "count." The article says a
count is "A count (as used above) is one half of a musical measure,
such as one quarter note in 2/4 time or three eighth notes in 6/8
time."
It would be more accurate to say that a count is one "beat" of a
measure. For example, in 4/4 time, there would be four counts/beats
per measure. There are a number of 4/4 tunes played for contra
dances so say that all tunes are 2/4 or 3/8 time is inaccurate. A
slightly important mistake is to say that 1 quarter note in 2/4 time
is a count/beat. It would be a half note, not a quarter note.
You're using "count" and "beat" to mean the same thing. I think
I've
mostly heard callers use them for different things. "Beat" is usally
used as a musical term while "count" is a choreography term. A
standard contra dance has 64 counts, and also has 64 steps. The
number of beats depends on what sort of tune the band plays.
But it's very much messy terminology. Many dancers use them
interchangibly to mean "count" while many musicians use them both to
mean "beat".
One quibble with the definition of a California Twirl. The
definition states the convenient hands joined. I think of a
California Twirl specifically as the gent's right hand and ladies
left hand being joined. I've heard a couple of callers use "Navada
Twirl" for the flip situation of having the gent's left hand and
ladies right hand joined.
I'd be curious to know whether the rest of you use California twirl
to mean the more general "convenient" hands or the more specific
"gent's right and lady's left."
I've most commonly heard four different calls for the four different
combinations of man's left/right and woman's left/right:
man woman figure
--- ----- ------
R L California twirl
L R Star through
R R Box the gnat
L L Swat the flea
I've heard people advocate using "twirl to swap" for all cases. So I
would say the wiki's wrong here.
Jeff
Medford MA
20 Oct
20 Oct
2:31 a.m.
Thank you, Jeff!
I would really like for dancers and musicians to kindly and respectfully
agree that we speak two different languages, and agree to use ONLY the word
"count" to talk to one another across the divide.
Even some musicians don't understand the difference between 4/4, 2/4, 6/8,
and 2/2, particularly since folk notation often uses 4/4 where 2/2 is really
meant. But I contend it doesn't really matter so long as you know how the
tune goes. I'm able to simply disregard my musical training (BMus Oberlin,
MMus, New England Conservatory) when faced with music (or musicians) who are
happily, blissfully unaware of the traditions of standard musical notation.
And dancers! Good lord, not even folk notation can explain the
misconceptions about musical terminology. But again, I contend that it
doesn't really matter if you can hear the top of the phrase and if you can
count to eight. Forget all that A1 and A2 and B1 and B2 business! It's
useful to the musicians (so callers who truly understand it can sometimes
get a tune back on track that has gone off) but the dance choreography is
almost always 8-8-8-8-8-8-8-8. Sometimes the eights have two four-count
moves, and sometimes a four count balance is followed by a twelve count
swing, but it's really all eights, all the time, in contra dance.
All eight WHATs? Why, eight counts, of course. 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8. And even
poor lost-soul musicians who don't dance can understand that it's up to them
to figure out what note length gets a single count after you walk it through
for them.
So the word "count" gets us both into less trouble, and means basically the
same thing to both groups. As a musician, I might mentally translate "count"
into "beat", and as a dancer, I might mentally translate "count" into
"step", but I mean exactly the same amount of time in both cases.
If anyone is interested in why I think the word "beat" won't do the same
job, I'd be delighted to entertain a discussion, but perhaps off-line where
we won't leave people scratching their heads and wondering why people even
think about such things...
M
E
On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 4:56 PM, Jeff Kaufman <cbr(a)sccs.swarthmore.edu>wrote;wrote:
On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 10:53:32PM -0400, Mark
Hillegonds wrote:
There is a mistake in the definition of "count." The article says a
count is "A count (as used above) is one half of a musical measure,
such as one quarter note in 2/4 time or three eighth notes in 6/8
time."
It would be more accurate to say that a count is one "beat" of a
measure. For example, in 4/4 time, there would be four counts/beats
per measure. There are a number of 4/4 tunes played for contra
dances so say that all tunes are 2/4 or 3/8 time is inaccurate. A
slightly important mistake is to say that 1 quarter note in 2/4 time
is a count/beat. It would be a half note, not a quarter note.
You're using "count" and "beat" to mean the same thing. I think
I've
mostly heard callers use them for different things. "Beat" is usally
used as a musical term while "count" is a choreography term. A
standard contra dance has 64 counts, and also has 64 steps. The
number of beats depends on what sort of tune the band plays.
But it's very much messy terminology. Many dancers use them
interchangibly to mean "count" while many musicians use them both to
mean "beat".
One quibble with the definition of a California Twirl. The
definition states the convenient hands joined. I think of a
California Twirl specifically as the gent's right hand and ladies
left hand being joined. I've heard a couple of callers use "Navada
Twirl" for the flip situation of having the gent's left hand and
ladies right hand joined.
I'd be curious to know whether the rest of you use California twirl
to mean the more general "convenient" hands or the more specific
"gent's right and lady's left."
I've most commonly heard four different calls for the four different
combinations of man's left/right and woman's left/right:
man woman figure
--- ----- ------
R L California twirl
L R Star through
R R Box the gnat
L L Swat the flea
I've heard people advocate using "twirl to swap" for all cases. So I
would say the wiki's wrong here.
Jeff
Medford MA
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24 Oct
24 Oct
9:07 p.m.
Thank you for the feedback and corrections and interpretation as well.
Cheers, John
5872
days inactive
5878
days old
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
4 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
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cbr＠sccs.swarthmore.edu -
JD Erskine -
Mark Hillegonds -
Martha Edwards