29 Apr
2010
29 Apr
'10
9:31 a.m.
--- Delia wrote:
One circle of four ended up in the wrong places as the dance progressed and it
appeared that the others near them couldn't figure out how to fix it and land
them in the correct spots
--- end of quote ---
Rather than sending everyone home and doing two more walkthroughs, you might
have fixed that one group-- identifying who were the ones and who were the twos
and where they should now be-- and doing one more walkthrough from that spot,
then starting the dance from that next progressed place. It'd certainly be
faster, less talking on your part, and it would move those two couples farther
away from each other. Sometimes all that's needed is to separate the folks
involved in a "clot of confusion" from one another, and as they get mixed in
with more skilled dancers they'll be helped through the parts they didn't
understand.
David Millstone
Lebanon, NH
29 Apr
29 Apr
9:38 a.m.
New subject: Walk-throughs
Rather than sending everyone home and doing two more
walkthroughs, you
might
have fixed that one group-- identifying who were the ones and who were the
twos
and where they should now be-- and doing one more walkthrough from that
spot,
then starting the dance from that next progressed place
This is a good strategy.....it's best to avoid 3 walk-thrus whenever
possible. Another thing you can do is try to keep an eye on the knots of
beginners who are struggling, and make sure they know where to be at the end
of each figure AS you are teaching them. Then, hopefully, they'll be at the
right place at the end of the 1st walk-thru, and you can start a 2nd
walk-thru from there if it seems like a lot of the room would benefit from
it.
~Barbara
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10:08 a.m.
New subject: Walk-throughs
I know it's sometimes necessary, but I think more than 2 walk-throughs is not a good
strategy. If the group as a whole still isn't getting it after the second walk
through, I prefer to switch to a simpler dance. My reasoning is that people come to a
contra dance primarily to dance, not listen to the caller's instruction.
I also prefer not to focus on individual dancers, or small groups of dancers, even if
it's obvious that everyone in the room except that *one couple* (we all know what
that's like) still hasn't gotten it. I know it's sometimes necessary, but it
also makes that one couple, or one individual, more self-conscious about their dancing
skills. I think it's better, after that second walk-through, to focus on calling as
clearly as possible. For rank novices, I try to include in the instruction reminders about
where they can reconnect with their partner if they become completely lost. A
partner's balance and swing, for example.
Finally, in the newcomers instruction before the dance, I encourage the newcomers to dance
with other people, not just each other, and I ask the more experienced dancers to dance
with someone they don't know at least once during the evening. Frankly, this often
doesn't work since those newcomers are grimly determined to dance only with each
other, and the more seasoned dancers often insist in dancing with their own little cliques
they're familiar with, but I keep trying to hammer that advice home.
-Lewis Land
---- Barbara Groh <barbaragroh(a)bellsouth.net> wrote:
Rather than sending everyone home and doing two
more walkthroughs, you
might
have fixed that one group-- identifying who were the ones and who were the
twos
and where they should now be-- and doing one more walkthrough from that
spot,
then starting the dance from that next progressed place
This is a good strategy.....it's best to avoid 3 walk-thrus whenever
possible. Another thing you can do is try to keep an eye on the knots of
beginners who are struggling, and make sure they know where to be at the end
of each figure AS you are teaching them. Then, hopefully, they'll be at the
right place at the end of the 1st walk-thru, and you can start a 2nd
walk-thru from there if it seems like a lot of the room would benefit from
it.
~Barbara
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10:59 a.m.
New subject: Walk-throughs
Lewis wrote:
I know it's sometimes necessary, but I think more
than 2
walk-throughs is not a good strategy. If the group as a whole still
isn't getting it after the second walk through, I prefer to switch
to a simpler dance. My reasoning is that people come to a contra
dance primarily to dance, not listen to the caller's instruction.
I agree that there are often too many walk-throughs and too much
"teaching" by the caller. At that point the most professional thing
to do is to apologize, choose a simple dance, and get people moving
quickly to lively music. Hopefully people will quickly forget your
gaff. (Remember: The caller always takes full responsibility.)
I agree with Lewis that directing any comments to the confused
dancers is counterproductive and unprofessional.
Whenever there are "clumps" of newcomers in the hall this is evidence
that the caller has not succeeded in integrating the newcomers. That
is not an easy task and it requires precise and expert calling in
perfect time and using effective word order. It also requires
proactive set management and an attitude of confidence in the
dancers. Contrary to common wisdom an excellent caller will actually
teach less when there are lots of newcomers in the hall.
How does the caller integrate newcomers? This is at the heart of
good contradance calling.
More specifically:
How can we inspire the regulars to partner with new
people--particularly in the first part of the evening?
The answer to this question would take much more time than a single
post. It involves making it fun to dance with newcomers. (Hint:
Regular contra dancers actually love to dance with newcomers. But
only if they are fully engaged in the process of welcoming and
leading the newcomers at the event. Every enthusiast loves to
introduce newcomers to something they are passionate about. It is
the caller's job to make sure the newcomers are confident and
relaxed, and to allow the experienced regulars to take the lead in
showing the newcomers how it's done.)
Nuff said for now.
Greg McKenzie
*******
I also prefer not to focus on individual dancers, or
small groups of
dancers, even if it's obvious that everyone in the room except that
*one couple* (we all know what that's like) still hasn't gotten it.
I know it's sometimes necessary, but it also makes that one couple,
or one individual, more self-conscious about their dancing skills. I
think it's better, after that second walk-through, to focus on
calling as clearly as possible. For rank novices, I try to include
in the instruction reminders about where they can reconnect with
their partner if they become completely lost. A partner's balance
and swing, for example.
Finally, in the newcomers instruction before the dance, I encourage
the newcomers to dance with other people, not just each other, and I
ask the more experienced dancers to dance with someone they don't
know at least once during the evening. Frankly, this often doesn't
work since those newcomers are grimly determined to dance only with
each other, and the more seasoned dancers often insist in dancing
with their own little cliques they're familiar with, but I keep
trying to hammer that advice home.
-Lewis Land
---- Barbara Groh <barbaragroh(a)bellsouth.net> wrote:
at the end
> Rather than sending everyone home and doing two more walkthroughs, you
> might
> have fixed that one group-- identifying who were the ones and
who were the
twos
and where they should now be-- and doing one more walkthrough from that
spot,
then starting the dance from that next progressed place
This is a good strategy.....it's best to avoid 3 walk-thrus whenever
possible. Another thing you can do is try to keep an eye on the knots of
beginners who are struggling, and make sure they know where to be of each figure AS you are teaching them. Then,
hopefully,
they'll be at the
right place at the end of the 1st walk-thru, and
you can start a 2nd
walk-thru from there if it seems like a lot of the room would benefit from
it.
~Barbara
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5:26 p.m.
New subject: Walk-throughs
I agree that there are often too many walk-throughs
and too much "teaching"
by the caller. At that point the most professional thing to do is to
apologize, choose a simple dance, and get people moving quickly to lively
music.
I'm not sure that after 2 walk-throughs the best bet is to switch
dances. Unless you've got something you want to run in that situation
without a walk-through, you're still not getting people dancing
immediately. If you're trying to run a very complex dance, maybe you
need to bail, but hopefully you're not doing that to newcomers to
begin with. If there's one trouble spot after 2 walk-throughs, and you
think the might be fine with other people, maybe just have everyone
take hands four, walk forward a couple, walk forward a couple, take
new hands four, and start the dance from there.
--
Luke Donev
http://www.lukedonev.com
Luke.Donev(a)gmail.com
30 Apr
30 Apr
6:08 a.m.
New subject: Walk-throughs
There are two separate issues here. First, is the issue of calling a
complex dance for the crowd that you may have incorrectly written down.
In that case, after two walk thrus, if most or all of the floor is
having problems, then bail and do something dead-easy. Don't beat a dead
horse trying to figure it out and waste the dancers' time.
The other issue is calling a dance that is beyond some of your dancers.
I subscribe to the theory that if I need more than one walk thru, then
I'm calling a dance that is too difficult for the crowd. The main reason
that I might run a second walk thru is if there is a clump of beginners
and I need to get them progressed to new couples who can help them out.
If you have a dance that requires the majority of people in the hall to
think hard about the choreography, then they aren't going to have much
attention to give to enjoying the music, helping the new people around
them and enjoying their partners and neighbors. That doesn't mean that
you don't challenge them at some point or call boring dances. The dances
need to flow well and be interesting, but not require a lot of thought
to dance. Most of the time, one walk thru should be enough.
Chris Weiler
Goffstown, NH
Luke Donev wrote:
I agree that
there are often too many walk-throughs and too much "teaching"
by the caller. At that point the most professional thing to do is to
apologize, choose a simple dance, and get people moving quickly to lively
music.
I'm not sure that after 2 walk-throughs the best bet is to switch
dances. Unless you've got something you want to run in that situation
without a walk-through, you're still not getting people dancing
immediately. If you're trying to run a very complex dance, maybe you
need to bail, but hopefully you're not doing that to newcomers to
begin with. If there's one trouble spot after 2 walk-throughs, and you
think the might be fine with other people, maybe just have everyone
take hands four, walk forward a couple, walk forward a couple, take
new hands four, and start the dance from there.
11:25 a.m.
New subject: Walk-throughs
I agree that there are often too many walk-throughs
and too much "teaching"
by the caller. At that point the most professional thing to do is to
apologize, choose a simple dance, and get people moving quickly to lively
music.
Just my two cents:
It has happened to me more than once that I've walked through a challenging dance,
feel it isn't clear enough, don't want to waste more time teaching it, and say
"let's do something else".
The crowd hollers "NO! We want to do THIS dance!"
1:22 p.m.
New subject: Walk-throughs
J. Mortland's two cents:
It has happened to me more than once that I've walked through a challenging dance,
feel it isn't clear enough, don't want to waste more time teaching it, and say
"let's do something else".
The crowd hollers "NO! We want to do THIS dance!"
Ron Nelson adds:
This has been my experience also. The attitude is "we've gone this far, we are
not going to give up now!" The sense of accomplishment when the dance finally goes
well far outshines the momentary frustration caused by getting a few stragglers up to
speed on the figure.
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1:29 p.m.
New subject: Walk-throughs
Hi All:
Chris Weiler wrote:
"I subscribe to the theory that if I need more than one walk thru, then
I'm calling a dance that is too difficult for the crowd. The main reason
that I might run a second walk thru is if there is a clump of beginners
and I need to get them progressed to new couples who can help them out. "
Aside from that good reason, whether or not I tailor my teaching to do 1 or 2 walkthroughs
often depends on where I am calling and the expectations of the local dancers. If I am
calling at one of the zesty New England dance series (lots of hotshots, few beginners,
fast-paced evening) I better have a darn good reason for any second walkthrough - the
dancers expect one-and-done. But if I am calling locally (NYC/NJ/PA) the same dance will
get two walkthroughs so comments on timing, flow, or style tips can be added - the dancers
are used to that. I can always tell when a New England caller is touring through the
area, as the locals are surprised early on by how fast the walkthroughs are.
Part of this difference is regional, but that doesn't always apply. The best example
is Glen Echo - on Fridays, which can have up to 100 new dancers, two walkthroughs are a
very good idea; but the highly-experienced Sunday series is more one-and-done. Another
factor to consider is the frequency of the dance series - dancers tend to need more
teaching at a monthly series than weekly ones. As Greg mentioned, Santa Cruz has a lot of
young/new dancers, but it's also a monthly series, so two are good there. In
contrast, a weekly mostly-experienced series such as Santa Barbara is a one walkthrough
crowd.
Just curious - what are the dancer expectations where you call?
Bob
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2:29 p.m.
New subject: Walk-throughs
Here in St Louis - definitely two. First one slow, second one more in
tempo. Some callers usually "go back." Others usually "dance it from
here."
M
E
On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 1:29 PM, Bob Isaacs <isaacsbob(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi All:
Chris Weiler wrote:
"I subscribe to the theory that if I need more than one walk thru, then
I'm calling a dance that is too difficult for the crowd. The main reason
that I might run a second walk thru is if there is a clump of beginners
and I need to get them progressed to new couples who can help them out. "
Aside from that good reason, whether or not I tailor my teaching to do 1 or
2 walkthroughs often depends on where I am calling and the expectations of
the local dancers. If I am calling at one of the zesty New England dance
series (lots of hotshots, few beginners, fast-paced evening) I better have a
darn good reason for any second walkthrough - the dancers expect
one-and-done. But if I am calling locally (NYC/NJ/PA) the same dance will
get two walkthroughs so comments on timing, flow, or style tips can be added
- the dancers are used to that. I can always tell when a New England caller
is touring through the area, as the locals are surprised early on by how
fast the walkthroughs are.
Part of this difference is regional, but that doesn't always apply. The
best example is Glen Echo - on Fridays, which can have up to 100 new
dancers, two walkthroughs are a very good idea; but the highly-experienced
Sunday series is more one-and-done. Another factor to consider is the
frequency of the dance series - dancers tend to need more teaching at a
monthly series than weekly ones. As Greg mentioned, Santa Cruz has a lot of
young/new dancers, but it's also a monthly series, so two are good there.
In contrast, a weekly mostly-experienced series such as Santa Barbara is a
one walkthrough crowd.
Just curious - what are the dancer expectations where you call?
Bob
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Save by an evil chance,
And the merry love the fiddle
And the merry love to dance. ~ William Butler Yeats
2:50 p.m.
New subject: Walk-throughs
Remember there are often couples waiting out at the bottom of the set. A
one-walk-through and go makes it hard on them unless they are 1) good
enough to learn by watching; and 2) paying attention. What I've noticed is
the new dancers end up confused because they never got to dance it and the
experienced dancers end up confused because they're talking rather than
watching others walk thru the dance. Of course maybe if the *knew* they
didn't get a second chance, they might pay attention.
I like a second walk thru at dance speed. It helps the dancers get the flow
of the dance without the interruptions for explanations that are needed
all-but-the-simplest dances during the first walk thru. Also "go back to
your starting place" is unnecessary and annoying except for the most
challenging dances were a familiar face may help them survive the first
round of the dance.
Your mileage may vary. ;-)
Dale
On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 2:29 PM, Martha Edwards <meedwards(a)westendweb.com>wrote;wrote:
Here in St Louis - definitely two. First one slow,
second one more in
tempo. Some callers usually "go back." Others usually "dance it from
here."
M
E
On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 1:29 PM, Bob Isaacs <isaacsbob(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
--
Thunder rolled. ... It rolled a six.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!)
Hi All:
Chris Weiler wrote:
"I subscribe to the theory that if I need more than one walk thru, then
I'm calling a dance that is too difficult for the crowd. The main reason
that I might run a second walk thru is if there is a clump of beginners
and I need to get them progressed to new couples who can help them out.
"
Aside from that good reason, whether or not I tailor my teaching to do 1
or
2 walkthroughs often depends on where I am
calling and the expectations
of
the local dancers. If I am calling at one of the
zesty New England dance
series (lots of hotshots, few beginners, fast-paced evening) I better
have a
darn good reason for any second walkthrough - the
dancers expect
one-and-done. But if I am calling locally (NYC/NJ/PA) the same dance
will
get two walkthroughs so comments on timing, flow,
or style tips can be
added
- the dancers are used to that. I can always
tell when a New England
caller
is touring through the area, as the locals are
surprised early on by how
fast the walkthroughs are.
Part of this difference is regional, but that doesn't always apply. The
best example is Glen Echo - on Fridays, which can have up to 100 new
dancers, two walkthroughs are a very good idea; but the
highly-experienced
Sunday series is more one-and-done. Another
factor to consider is the
frequency of the dance series - dancers tend to need more teaching at a
monthly series than weekly ones. As Greg mentioned, Santa Cruz has a lot
of
young/new dancers, but it's also a monthly
series, so two are good there.
In contrast, a weekly mostly-experienced series such as Santa Barbara is
a
one walkthrough crowd.
Just curious - what are the dancer expectations where you call?
Bob
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For the good are always the merry,
Save by an evil chance,
And the merry love the fiddle
And the merry love to dance. ~ William Butler Yeats
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3:02 p.m.
New subject: Walk-throughs
On 4/30/10 11:29 AM, "Bob Isaacs" <isaacsbob(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
Chris Weiler wrote:
"I subscribe to the theory that if I need more than one walk thru, then
I'm calling a dance that is too difficult for the crowd. The main reason
that I might run a second walk thru is if there is a clump of beginners
and I need to get them progressed to new couples who can help them out. "
Bob Isaacs wrote:
Just curious - what are the dancer expectations where you call?
Often I find that is just depends on the dance. Our Portland Saturday
dances tend to have a fair number of beginners, somewhere around 20-30
percent (we get between 100-150 total) If I observe that folks seemed to
get it the first time, back it up and go. If it's a dance with a tricky
move, second walkthrough. If I've had to demo a move in the first
walkthrough, definitely a second with the feel of the flow. I always try to
throw in a no-walkthrough sometime during the evening, with familiar moves.
Rich
4:26 p.m.
New subject: Walk-throughs
I've had East coast callers tell me in no uncertain terms that if you have
to walk it through more than once you'd better figure out a better way to
call or choose simpler dances.
But we're used to two out here in the Heartland, so we have all kinds of
reasons why it's better. Number one is that the two walkthroughs have
different functions - the first one to explain the moves, the second to show
what you have to do when you do them at speed.
The number two reason is that the experienced dancers are talking during the
first walkthrough, knowing that another one is coming...
Hmmm....
M
E
On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 3:02 PM, Rich Goss <richgoss(a)comcast.net> wrote:
On 4/30/10 11:29 AM, "Bob Isaacs" <isaacsbob(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
Bob Isaacs wrote:
> Just curious - what are the dancer
expectations where you call?
Often I find that is just depends on the dance. Our Portland Saturday
dances tend to have a fair number of beginners, somewhere around 20-30
percent (we get between 100-150 total) If I observe that folks seemed to
get it the first time, back it up and go. If it's a dance with a tricky
move, second walkthrough. If I've had to demo a move in the first
walkthrough, definitely a second with the feel of the flow. I always try
to
throw in a no-walkthrough sometime during the evening, with familiar moves.
Rich
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--
For the good are always the merry,
Save by an evil chance,
And the merry love the fiddle
And the merry love to dance. ~ William Butler Yeats
Chris Weiler wrote:
"I subscribe to the theory that if I need more than one walk thru, then
I'm calling a dance that is too difficult for the crowd. The main reason
that I might run a second walk thru is if there is a clump of beginners
and I need to get them progressed to new couples who can help them out.
"
1 May
1 May
6:23 a.m.
New subject: Walk-throughs
Interesting discussion. Here in central New York, I don't think the dancers
have a clear expectation about the number of times a dance should be walked
through (although generally there's a preference for single walk-throughs,
and little tolerance for more than two). The approach that I've decided to
take is to mix it up: use one walk-through for simpler dances and two when a
dance is particularly complex ... or when the dance is new to me, or when I
feel I haven't done the best job teaching it the first time. So far no one
has complained....
Katy Heine
-----Original Message-----
From: callers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net
[mailto:callers-bounces@sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of Martha Edwards
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 5:27 PM
To: Caller's discussion list
Subject: Re: [Callers] Walk-throughs
I've had East coast callers tell me in no uncertain terms that if you have
to walk it through more than once you'd better figure out a better way to
call or choose simpler dances.
But we're used to two out here in the Heartland, so we have all kinds of
reasons why it's better. Number one is that the two walkthroughs have
different functions - the first one to explain the moves, the second to show
what you have to do when you do them at speed.
The number two reason is that the experienced dancers are talking during the
first walkthrough, knowing that another one is coming...
Hmmm....
M
E
On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 3:02 PM, Rich Goss <richgoss(a)comcast.net> wrote:
Bob Isaacs wrote:
> Just curious - what are the dancer
expectations where you call?
Often I find that is just depends on the dance. Our Portland Saturday
dances tend to have a fair number of beginners, somewhere around 20-30
percent (we get between 100-150 total) If I observe that folks seemed to
get it the first time, back it up and go. If it's a dance with a tricky
move, second walkthrough. If I've had to demo a move in the first
walkthrough, definitely a second with the feel of the flow. I always try
to
throw in a no-walkthrough sometime during the evening, with familiar moves.
On 4/30/10 11:29 AM, "Bob Isaacs" <isaacsbob(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
> Chris Weiler wrote:
>
>
> "I subscribe to the theory that if I need more than one walk thru, then
> I'm calling a dance that is too difficult for the crowd. The main
reason
that I might
run a second walk thru is if there is a clump of beginners
and I need to get them progressed to new couples who can help them out.
"
Rich
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For the good are always the merry,
Save by an evil chance,
And the merry love the fiddle
And the merry love to dance. ~ William Butler Yeats
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13 comments
13 participants
participants (13)
-
Barbara Groh -
Bob Isaacs -
Chris Weiler (home) -
Dale Wilson -
David.Millstone＠VALLEY.NET -
Greg McKenzie -
Katy Heine -
lewisland＠windstream.net -
Luke Donev -
Martha Edwards -
Mortland, Jo -
Rich Goss -
Ron Nelson