2 Dec
2010
2 Dec
'10
10:58 p.m.
A Rainbow contra dance was recently started here in Seattle. After much
research and discussion, the organizer decided she wanted callers to use
"lead" and "follow." The callers are emphasizing personal choice in
whichever role the dancer wants to play and that they're allowed to switch
throughout the evening and negotiate with each partner who's going to play
each role.
I have a personal dislike for ties, bands, bandannas, etc., because it
hampers movement on the dance floor and doesn't allow for changing roles
easily as you dance. If a person is coming toward you with an outstretched
hand for an allemande, why not assume they know what they're doing instead
of trying to figure out whether they're dancing the "right" role?
I've heard the argument that contra leading/following isn't the same as in
ballroom, but "lead" and "follow" seem less offensive to me than
using
gender-specific terms in a gender-free dance. Yes, it's more of a
negotiation than leading in ballroom or swing or blues, but if you can get
past the idea that the lead is actually dictating every move for the follow,
then I think these terms are about as good as any.
Someone suggested using "ones" and "twos," but I'm not seeing how
you would
then distinguish between active and inactive couples.
The bathrooms at the Saturn Cafe in Santa Cruz are gender-neutral and use
the terms "robots" and "aliens." How about it? :)
-Marianne
2 Dec
2 Dec
11:42 p.m.
New subject: Gender free dances
The bathrooms at the Saturn Cafe in Santa Cruz are
gender-neutral and use
the terms "robots" and "aliens." How about it? :)
-Marianne
I was once in a yacht club where the men's room was labeled "buoys" and the
ladies' room was labeled "gulls".
Ron Nelson
3 Dec
3 Dec
12:01 a.m.
New subject: Gender free dances
On 02/Dec/10 15:42, Ron Nelson wrote:
The Old Comrades Assoc. I used to frequent had signs one needed to look
at carefully, though any sign at that time of night need one-eye-covered
attention. There were kilts and skirts.
John
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The bathrooms at the Saturn Cafe in Santa Cruz
are gender-neutral and use
the terms "robots" and "aliens." How about it? :)
-Marianne
I was once in a yacht club where the men's room was labeled "buoys" and
the ladies' room was labeled "gulls".
Ron Nelson 
1:20 a.m.
New subject: Gender free dances
I am not suggesting this for a contra dance style event, but when calling for private
party dances and needing role definitions, not gendered, I use birdie and crow (from the
old dance "Birdie in the Cage") I find the syllables roll of my tongue very
comfortably. Birdie used as the replacement (in my mind only) for lady and crow for gent.
I've also used silly things like "the people over here" and "the people
over there." The vast majority of my private party dance material doesn't
require any role definition at all.
I also call at the Jamaica Plain gender free dance using bare-arms and armbands. These
terms have come to simply stand for the role, many people no longer requiring or using the
armbands. There are little clip-on ribbons used by some in lieu of armbands, but no one
really notices if someone isn't wearing one and is dancing the armband role.
I firmly believe that "lady" and "gent" are role descriptions that
anyone can choose to "put on" for the dance and I try to express this at most
contra dances. I made a careful decision many years ago to not use "man" and
"woman" because to me these are real every day words. I would personally be more
offended by "lead" and "follow," which imply action, than by
"lady" and "gent" which are words describing a role for the dance. But
that's just me and I wouldn't really expect anyone else to feel the same.
Just my $.02 worth.
Beth
-----Original Message-----
From: callers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net [mailto:callers-
bounces(a)sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of Marianne Tatom Letts
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 5:58 PM
To: callers(a)sharedweight.net
Subject: Re: [Callers] Gender free dances
A Rainbow contra dance was recently started here in Seattle. After much
research and discussion, the organizer decided she wanted callers to use
"lead" and "follow." The callers are emphasizing personal choice in
whichever
role the dancer wants to play and that they're allowed to switch throughout
the evening and negotiate with each partner who's going to play each role.
I have a personal dislike for ties, bands, bandannas, etc., because it hampers
movement on the dance floor and doesn't allow for changing roles easily as
you dance. If a person is coming toward you with an outstretched hand for
an allemande, why not assume they know what they're doing instead of
trying to figure out whether they're dancing the "right" role?
I've heard the argument that contra leading/following isn't the same as in
ballroom, but "lead" and "follow" seem less offensive to me than
using
gender-specific terms in a gender-free dance. Yes, it's more of a negotiation
than leading in ballroom or swing or blues, but if you can get past the idea
that the lead is actually dictating every move for the follow, then I think
these terms are about as good as any.
Someone suggested using "ones" and "twos," but I'm not seeing how
you
would then distinguish between active and inactive couples.
The bathrooms at the Saturn Cafe in Santa Cruz are gender-neutral and use
the terms "robots" and "aliens." How about it? :) -Marianne
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4:05 a.m.
New subject: Gender free dances
I'll observe that there are multiple reasons for needing gender-free
terms. Our dance series is family-oriented and usually heavy with first
time dancers. So, we often have mother dancing with daughter, son
dancing with son, father with son, daughter with best friend, and so
forth. The kids are generally uninhibited in pairing up, but often
retreat when they realize they are playing the "wrong" role (especially
the boys). We sometimes use "cats" and "dogs", at least for some of
the
playful, non-contra dances.
As with so many of the discussions here, how well random designations
with no visible association works depends very strongly on the level of
the dancers. At some dances you can assume that whoever is coming
toward you is the right person. At our dances you cannot make that
assumption. The odds are quite high that the crow did not leave his
birdie on the right or that instead of allemanding 1 and 1/2 times they
allemanded once (and with the wrong hands). We find ties very useful.
Perseverating on this theme, it is not unusual for us to have enough
first time dancers so that there are not enough experienced dancers to
go around, leaving us with two beginners dancing together. Children and
their parents are often understandably uncomfortable having the children
dancing with strange adults, again leaving us with two neophytes dancing
together. And sometimes a couple will come, expecting to dance with
each other.
I am not complaining about the dancers. Part of our mission is to
expose new people to traditional dancing, and this is what it takes. I
just ask that here we not dogmatically assert that our way is the only
way without acknowledging the context.
Dave
On 12/2/2010 7:20 PM, beth(a)hands4.com wrote:
I am not suggesting this for a contra dance style
event, but when calling for private party dances and needing role definitions, not
gendered, I use birdie and crow (from the old dance "Birdie in the Cage") I find
the syllables roll of my tongue very comfortably. Birdie used as the replacement (in my
mind only) for lady and crow for gent. I've also used silly things like "the
people over here" and "the people over there." The vast majority of my
private party dance material doesn't require any role definition at all.
4:35 a.m.
New subject: Gender free dances
Surely for a situation such as the one you describe, there must be dances
that don't require "marking" a person with gender. By eliminating dances
with things like "ladies allemande" or even "ladies chain" and keeping
to
dances with whole group moves like circles and stars and partner/neighbor
moves like dosidos and allemandes, we should be able to do fun dances that
don't require that extra marker of "gents" or "ladies". Add in
the English
Country concept of "corners" and you have a lot of people identified in the
group without ever saying anything about men and women.
It may mean we don't do certain dances at dances where there are children
dancing with parents, or dances with lots of same-gender newer dancers. But
surely that's better than any of the options we have come up with so far.
I'm glad to hear that at the Jamaica Plain dance, folks have learned to keep
track of "bands" and "bares" without actually having to be banded or
bared.
It shows we could probably learn to use any designation we want for more
advanced gender-free dancing, that it doesn't even have to be particularly
logical, just learned and accepted by the group.
M
E
On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 10:05 PM, David Harding <dharding101(a)comcast.net>wrote;wrote:
I'll observe that there are multiple reasons for
needing gender-free terms.
Our dance series is family-oriented and usually heavy with first time
dancers. So, we often have mother dancing with daughter, son dancing with
son, father with son, daughter with best friend, and so forth. The kids are
generally uninhibited in pairing up, but often retreat when they realize
they are playing the "wrong" role (especially the boys). We sometimes use
"cats" and "dogs", at least for some of the playful, non-contra
dances.
As with so many of the discussions here, how well random designations with
no visible association works depends very strongly on the level of the
dancers. At some dances you can assume that whoever is coming toward you is
the right person. At our dances you cannot make that assumption. The odds
are quite high that the crow did not leave his birdie on the right or that
instead of allemanding 1 and 1/2 times they allemanded once (and with the
wrong hands). We find ties very useful.
Perseverating on this theme, it is not unusual for us to have enough first
time dancers so that there are not enough experienced dancers to go around,
leaving us with two beginners dancing together. Children and their parents
are often understandably uncomfortable having the children dancing with
strange adults, again leaving us with two neophytes dancing together. And
sometimes a couple will come, expecting to dance with each other.
I am not complaining about the dancers. Part of our mission is to expose
new people to traditional dancing, and this is what it takes. I just ask
that here we not dogmatically assert that our way is the only way without
acknowledging the context.
Dave
On 12/2/2010 7:20 PM, beth(a)hands4.com wrote:
--
For the good are always the merry,
Save by an evil chance,
And the merry love the fiddle
And the merry love to dance. ~ William Butler Yeats
I am not suggesting this for a contra dance style
event, but when calling
for private party dances and needing role definitions, not gendered, I use
birdie and crow (from the old dance "Birdie in the Cage") I find the
syllables roll of my tongue very comfortably. Birdie used as the replacement
(in my mind only) for lady and crow for gent. I've also used silly things
like "the people over here" and "the people over there." The vast
majority
of my private party dance material doesn't require any role definition at
all.
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5 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
beth＠hands4.com -
David Harding -
JD Erskine -
Marianne Tatom Letts -
Martha Edwards -
Ron Nelson