I have always considered that terminology to refer to picking up someone as you would a hitchhiker, not physically lifting someone.  I don't see it as having anything to do with who is doing what work. Mac McKeever On Wednesday, November 22, 2017, 2:15:38 PM CST, Ron Blechner via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: A quick question: How many callers believe that one role does the majority of the work in a courtesy turn or a butterfly whirl? If so, can you explain how the shared weight that differs from an allemande? I've always been taught about shared weight being essential in all contra moves, and I guess I'm still surprised when I hear callers prompt "pick her up and take her to the other side" as if the person in lady/raven role is not giving any weight. (Or similar one-role-biased prompting.) Thanks,Ron Blechner_______________________________________________ List Name:  Callers mailing list List Address:  Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net Archives:  https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/

I wouldn't say that one role does more work than the other, but courtesy turn and butterfly whirl are asymmetric and led by the person who backs up. The person that is backing up can easily apply a speed up pressure to control the speed of the turn. For the dancer that is going forward, it's hard to give a speed up pressure when your hand is behind the other person and that person is going backward. You can't pull because there is nothing to grip. The above assumes that the common way to follow is start out slow and speed up to match the leader. Allemandes are symmetric, both roles are identical, so the speed must negotiated. This works best when both dancers are good at timing. "Pick up your partner/neighbor, star promenade, whirl" is my call. Cary Ravitz

I view this situation generically as akin to talking to the "actives" in a sequence where there's not enough time to tell everyone what to do in the call (as opposed to the walk-through). In this case, the Allemande folks are moving first and therefore "active." I've used a call of "Gents Allemande Left once and a half, hold on, Ladies join your Partner for a Star Promenade.." (or the reverse) but it's more wordy than the "pick up your _____" or "pick 'em up" variant. In my teaching I try to stress to the "picked up" folks that they are active participants and it's important to stay aware, facing the right direction and ready to merge up to speed into the promenade (akin to cars on an on-ramp) - so all arrive on time for the next bit. -Don On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 3:15 PM, Ron Blechner via Callers < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote:

If the dancers do the right thing (and have fun) when I say the words then I'm calling it correctly. If the dancers are confused or not having fun, then I am not calling it correctly. If I can use fewer words to call it correctly then I try to do so. Sometimes my words are directed to the active couples, sometimes to the inactives, sometimes to the gents, sometimes to the ladies, and of course sometimes they apply to everybody. Always they are intended to help the dancers enjoy themselves. Getting back to the original question. If I were to call "pick up your neighbor" and I observed the people standing still somehow trying to "pick up" the person passing by in the allemande, then I would change the words I use. Until then, I use the words that I "always" use and that the experienced dancers are used to hearing. And as for "courtesy turn", those two words are sufficient. There is no need (and usually no time) to mention that one dancer is the turner and the other the turnee. Dale -- There are only two hard things in computer science: cache invalidation, naming things, and off-by-one errors.

If I evaluate the crowd of dancers and they require a lot of instruction for a move that they will see once in a evening (like the star promenade) then I get on the floor and do a demonstration. It is by far better for those learners who have to "see" rather than "hear". Its so much clearer for the dancers to get the choreography with me teaching while demonstrating. If I've misjudged the crowd and try to teach from the stage and there's confusion, I've found its harder for those dancers to "reset" their brain (since they have already learned it wrong), and perhaps they lost some confidence in me as a teacher. I see less and less Callers teaching/demonstrating from the floor in the dances I attend on regular evenings. And more often it seems that the Callers are relying on the experienced dances to teach the newcomers during the dance, which is a completely different discussion. Donna -----Original Message----- From: Ron Blechner via Callers &lt;callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; To: Dale Wilson &lt;dale.wilson(a)gmail.com&gt; Cc: callers &lt;callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt;et>; Grant Goodyear &lt;grant(a)grantgoodyear.org&gt; Sent: Tue, Nov 28, 2017 12:30 pm Subject: Re: [Callers] "pick her up" Thanks for all of the perspectives, so far. It's not necessarily easy to determine if dancers are giving proper weight. The butterfly whirl is one of those moves especially where bad weight is common, and the move can be really uncomfortable: - the person coming out of the allemande scoops at the waist, rather than shoulderblades - the arm is below center of mass, and can cause lower back pain. And really, I don't think hands belong on waists in any contra move. - the person getting scooped up puts hand on top of shoulder / doesn't connect with their arm at all. This is probably the most frequent issue I see / experience dancing. And I believe it's exacerbated by the "gents do the thing to ladies" framing of prompting. And it's why I very much agree with those who've replied emphasizing the use of neighbor/partner. - as mentioned by others, the person getting scooped not moving forward, and relying on the allemanding person to drag them along. Again, the "gents do the thing to ladies" exacerbates this, in my opinion. And these above difficulties aren't always easy to spot from the stage. So I like the "scoop" as a descriptor of the motion, but I am not really sure if it's the best descriptor of the *connection* between dancers and the shared weight. It's probably fine with a clear walk through - I'll often pause and emphasize connecting at shoulderblades and moving together as a unit. I wish there was something slightly better that worked for both, but all of this discussion has been really good to reevaluate my teaching on these. Thanks, Ron Blechner On Nov 28, 2017 11:36 AM, "Dale Wilson" &lt;dale.wilson(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: If the dancers do the right thing (and have fun) when I say the words then I'm calling it correctly. If the dancers are confused or not having fun, then I am not calling it correctly. If I can use fewer words to call it correctly then I try to do so. Sometimes my words are directed to the active couples, sometimes to the inactives, sometimes to the gents, sometimes to the ladies, and of course sometimes they apply to everybody. Always they are intended to help the dancers enjoy themselves. Getting back to the original question. If I were to call "pick up your neighbor" and I observed the people standing still somehow trying to "pick up" the person passing by in the allemande, then I would change the words I use. Until then, I use the words that I "always" use and that the experienced dancers are used to hearing. And as for "courtesy turn", those two words are sufficient. There is no need (and usually no time) to mention that one dancer is the turner and the other the turnee. Dale -- There are only two hard things in computer science: cache invalidation, naming things, and off-by-one errors. _______________________________________________ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/