22 May
2013
22 May
'13
12:10 p.m.
Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 21:28:07 +0100
From: "John Sweeney" <info(a)contrafusion.co.uk>
To: <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Subject: Re: [Callers] Arms Folded in Dosidos
Message-ID: <896C826125B44AB7A52BF412A8E4E3D0@study>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Why teach the dosido spin? Because it helps people to know which way to
spin, and because there are elements like catching your partner's eyes
between the spins that people won't necessarily pick up without some
guidance.
A couple of thoughts about spinning or not spinning - that has nothing to do with folded
arms...
If you and the person you are do-si-doing and spin exactly once you can both keep your
eyes on each other.
If you and the next opposite role person up/down the line don't spin you can both keep
your eyes on each other, and then when you get back to place there is the person you were
do-si-doing in front of you.
22 May
22 May
12:49 p.m.
New subject: Arms Folded in Dosidos
John Sweeny wrote:
On 5/22/2013 9:10 AM, John W Gintell wrote:
If you and the person you are do-si-doing and spin
exactly once you
can both keep your eyes on each other.
And we call it a gypsy...
If you and the next opposite role person up/down the
line don't spin
you can both keep your eyes on each other, and then when you get back
to place there is the person you were do-si-doing in front of you.
And it's
sorta what we now call a mad-robin do si do...
As far as folded arms or spinning goes: I see all those inexperienced
dancers crossing their arms and having a great time doing a do si do and
it just brings me joy! Why get in the way of such pleasure?
There are times I see "experienced" dancers spinning and then not
knowing which way to face at the when it's done and I end up having to
teach that a do si do starts facing someone and ends facing that same
direction. I like spins, but also know which way to face at the end.
~erik hoffman
oakland, ca
31 May
31 May
3:50 p.m.
New subject: Arms Folded in Dosidos
On Wed, May 22, 2013, Erik Hoffman wrote:
On 5/22/2013 9:10 AM, John W Gintell wrote:
Bit of trivia I learned recently from square dancing: what we call a Mad
Robin is also properly called a sashay (as opposed to the usual
half-sashay....).
--
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/
<*> <*> <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
If you and the next opposite role person up/down the line don't
spin you can both keep your eyes on each other, and then when you
get back to place there is the person you were do-si-doing in
front of you.
And it's sorta what we now call a mad-robin do si do... 
1 Jun
1 Jun
12:10 p.m.
New subject: "Full sashay"/"MadRobin" (was Re: Arms Folded in Dosidos)
On May 31, 2013, at 12:50 PM, Aahz Maruch wrote:
Bit of trivia I learned recently from square dancing:
what we call a
Mad
Robin is also properly called a sashay (as opposed to the usual
half-sashay....).
I've mentioned this before on this list and I guess it's time
to mention it again: Check out the B2 part of the dance "Saint
Paddy's Day" by Kirston Koths, as seen in _Zesty Contras_ or at
http://www.quiteapair.us/calling/acdol/dance/acd_137.html
The action that Kirston describes as a a "full sashay" (facing
neighbor and maintaining eye contact as much as possible, walk
clockwise around partner) is precisely the figure that has
come to be known to contra dancers as a "Mad Robin", though in
Kirston's dance it's done with dancers moving around partners
across the set while looking up or down at neighbors. Kirston's
description of the action as a "full sashay" certainly derives
from one of the historical uses of that term in square dancing
(Ken Sweeney's observation that "full sashay" is not currently
part of the approved MWSD terminology as codified by CALLERLAB
notwithstanding).
Kirston wrote "Saint Paddy's Day" in 1982. The term "Mad Robin"
entered the contra dance lexicon (for an action that only
vaguely resembles something from the English country dance
"Mad Robin") much later--perhaps in the late 1990's.
Can any of you pinpoint who introduced term "Mad Robin" with
it's current contra dance meaning, or when, or what dance they
were describing?
--Jim
12:55 p.m.
New subject: "Full sashay"/"MadRobin" (was Re: Arms Folded in Dosidos)
On 6/1/2013 11:10 AM, James Saxe wrote:
Can any of you pinpoint who introduced term "Mad
Robin" with
it's current contra dance meaning, or when, or what dance they
were describing?
The name, and figure, almost certainly come from the English country
dance Mad Robin (Playford 1687) as reconstructed by Cecil Sharp in 1922.
In this dance the 1's do the figure of dancing around their neighbor,
usually while maintaining eye contact with their partner, and then the
2's do it. In the figure as it has been imported into contra modern
contra dances it is usually done with everyone moving at once.
An idea for a workshop. Do a variety of older dances, ECD and early
American, with various figures now considered to be standard in contra
and square dance as well as modern dances with those figures.
Possibilities would be Hunsdon House (1665) with a grand square and Mad
Robin as well as any one of several different dances from the 1600's and
1700's with heys and contra corner type figures. I think I will propose
this as a possible workshop for our local dance group, though it will
have to be in the fall since our summer schedule is already set.
Jonathan
-----
Jonathan Sivier
Caller of Contra, English and Early American Dances
jsivier AT illinois DOT edu
Dance Page: http://www.sivier.me/dance_leader.html
-----
Q: How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
A: It depends on what dance you call!
1:11 p.m.
New subject: "Full sashay"/"MadRobin" (was Re: Arms Folded in Dosidos)
I've been trying to rename it to "Angry Bird", but I haven't got much
buy-in yet.
On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 12:55 PM, Jonathan Sivier <jsivier(a)illinois.edu>wrote;wrote:
On 6/1/2013 11:10 AM, James Saxe wrote:
Can any of you pinpoint who introduced term
"Mad Robin" with
it's current contra dance meaning, or when, or what dance they
were describing?
The name, and figure, almost certainly come from the English country
dance Mad Robin (Playford 1687) as reconstructed by Cecil Sharp in 1922.
In this dance the 1's do the figure of dancing around their neighbor,
usually while maintaining eye contact with their partner, and then the 2's
do it. In the figure as it has been imported into contra modern contra
dances it is usually done with everyone moving at once.
An idea for a workshop. Do a variety of older dances, ECD and early
American, with various figures now considered to be standard in contra and
square dance as well as modern dances with those figures. Possibilities
would be Hunsdon House (1665) with a grand square and Mad Robin as well as
any one of several different dances from the 1600's and 1700's with heys
and contra corner type figures. I think I will propose this as a possible
workshop for our local dance group, though it will have to be in the fall
since our summer schedule is already set.
Jonathan
-----
Jonathan Sivier
Caller of Contra, English and Early American Dances
jsivier AT illinois DOT edu
Dance Page:
http://www.sivier.me/dance_**leader.html<http://www.sivier.me/dance_lead…
-----
Q: How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
A: It depends on what dance you call!
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1:26 p.m.
New subject: "Full sashay"/"MadRobin" (was Re: Arms Folded in Dosidos)
On 6/1/2013 12:11 PM, Charles Hannum wrote:
I've been trying to rename it to "Angry
Bird", but I haven't got much
buy-in yet.
How about "Crazy Crow", "Wrought-up Wren", "Disturbed
Duck", "Insane
Ibis", "Passionate Pigeon" or others along the same lines? ;-)
Jonathan
2:11 p.m.
New subject: "Full sashay"/"MadRobin" (was Re: Arms Folded in Dosidos)
But Mad Robin is a nickname for a Puck-like character, in literature. Also known as Robin
Goodfellow, a player of harmless pranks, random doer of little good deeds, a bit
mischievous and secretive, given to pinching a sleeping queen of a night. I think perhaps
the author of the ECD thought the flirtatious nature of the move was a bit Puckish. So
alternate bird names wouldn't be proper substitutes. I have also hard the move called
a shuttle, which I think diminishes the flirty part too much. Mad Robin works, even if
less descriptive than we might like. Playful Parallels just doesn't quite cut it.
But if we think of Mad Robin as Robin Goodfellow, aka Puck, maybe it sits a little more
easily as a name for that very playful move.
Andrea
Sent from my iOnlypretendtomultitask
On Jun 1, 2013, at 1:26 PM, Jonathan Sivier <jsivier(a)illinois.edu> wrote:
On 6/1/2013 12:11 PM, Charles Hannum wrote:
I've been trying to rename it to "Angry
Bird", but I haven't got much
buy-in yet.
How about "Crazy Crow", "Wrought-up Wren", "Disturbed
Duck", "Insane Ibis", "Passionate Pigeon" or others along the
same lines? ;-)
Jonathan
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2:03 p.m.
New subject: "Full sashay"/"MadRobin" (was Re: Arms Folded in Dosidos)
There's a Morris dance which uses the figure called Belligerent Blue jay. :-)
-----Original Message-----
From: callers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net [mailto:callers-bounces@sharedweight.net] On
Behalf Of Charles Hannum
Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2013 1:11 PM
To: Caller's discussion list
Subject: Re: [Callers] "Full sashay"/"MadRobin" (was Re: Arms Folded
in Dosidos)
I've been trying to rename it to "Angry Bird", but I haven't got much
buy-in yet.
On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 12:55 PM, Jonathan Sivier <jsivier(a)illinois.edu>wrote;wrote:
On 6/1/2013 11:10 AM, James Saxe wrote:
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers Can any of you pinpoint who introduced term
"Mad Robin" with
it's current contra dance meaning, or when, or what dance they
were describing?
The name, and figure, almost certainly come from the English country
dance Mad Robin (Playford 1687) as reconstructed by Cecil Sharp in 1922.
In this dance the 1's do the figure of dancing around their neighbor,
usually while maintaining eye contact with their partner, and then the 2's
do it. In the figure as it has been imported into contra modern contra
dances it is usually done with everyone moving at once.
An idea for a workshop. Do a variety of older dances, ECD and early
American, with various figures now considered to be standard in contra and
square dance as well as modern dances with those figures. Possibilities
would be Hunsdon House (1665) with a grand square and Mad Robin as well as
any one of several different dances from the 1600's and 1700's with heys
and contra corner type figures. I think I will propose this as a possible
workshop for our local dance group, though it will have to be in the fall
since our summer schedule is already set.
Jonathan
-----
Jonathan Sivier
Caller of Contra, English and Early American Dances
jsivier AT illinois DOT edu
Dance Page:
http://www.sivier.me/dance_**leader.html<http://www.sivier.me/dance_lead…
-----
Q: How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
A: It depends on what dance you call!
______________________________**_________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/**mailman/listinfo/callers<http://www.shared…
6:31 p.m.
New subject: "Full sashay"/"MadRobin" (was Re: Arms Folded in Dosidos)
On Jun 1, 2013, at 9:55 AM, Jonathan Sivier quoted me (Jim
Saxe) as asking:
> Can any of you pinpoint who introduced term
"Mad Robin" with
> it's current contra dance meaning, or when, or what dance they
> were describing?
and he replied
The name, and figure, almost certainly come from the
English
country dance Mad Robin (Playford 1687) as reconstructed by Cecil
Sharp in 1922. ...
Yes, I know that. In fact, in the paragraph previous to the
one Jonathan quoted, I wrote
... The term "Mad Robin"
entered the contra dance lexicon (for an action that only
vaguely resembles something from the English country dance
"Mad Robin") much later [than 1982]--perhaps in the late 1990's.
Perhaps "only vaguely resembles" was an overstatement and I should
have written something more like "(based on a not-quite identical
action in the English country dance ...)".
In any case, Jonathan's comment doesn't address my original
question: Just when did the phrase "Mad Robin" become part
of contemporary contra dance vocabulary, and who introduced
it, and in connection with what dance? It didn't happen all
that long ago, so it seems plausible that someone might have
clear memories.
--Jim
6:37 p.m.
New subject: "Full sashay"/"MadRobin" (was Re: Arms Folded in Dosidos)
JIm:
The first dance I recall ever having a Mad Robin is "Silver
Anniversary Reel" by Jim Kitch. I don't know when he wrote it, but I
first called it in 1997.
LInda
On Jun 1, 2013, at 6:31 PM, James Saxe wrote:
On Jun 1, 2013, at 9:55 AM, Jonathan Sivier quoted me
(Jim
Saxe) as asking:
> Can any of you pinpoint who introduced term
"Mad Robin" with
> it's current contra dance meaning, or when, or what dance they
> were describing?
and he replied
The name, and figure, almost certainly come from
the English
country dance Mad Robin (Playford 1687) as reconstructed by Cecil
Sharp in 1922. ...
Yes, I know that. In fact, in the paragraph previous to the
one Jonathan quoted, I wrote
... The term "Mad Robin"
entered the contra dance lexicon (for an action that only
vaguely resembles something from the English country dance
"Mad Robin") much later [than 1982]--perhaps in the late 1990's.
Perhaps "only vaguely resembles" was an overstatement and I should
have written something more like "(based on a not-quite identical
action in the English country dance ...)".
In any case, Jonathan's comment doesn't address my original
question: Just when did the phrase "Mad Robin" become part
of contemporary contra dance vocabulary, and who introduced
it, and in connection with what dance? It didn't happen all
that long ago, so it seems plausible that someone might have
clear memories.
--Jim
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Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers 
3 Jun
3 Jun
8:10 a.m.
New subject: "Full sashay"/"MadRobin" (was Re: Arms Folded in Dosidos)
On Sat, 1 Jun 2013 11:55:13 -0500, Jonathan Sivier wrote:
The name, and figure, almost certainly come from the
English
country dance Mad Robin (Playford 1687) as reconstructed by Cecil
Sharp in 1922. In this dance the 1's do the figure of dancing
around their neighbor, usually while maintaining eye contact with
their partner, and then the 2's do it.
No, that's the American way rather than the Cecil Sharp way. The ones
are already progressed at this point, and Sharp says "First woman
moves up the middle and casts down to second place; while the first
man casts up and moves down the middle into the second place." The
fixed stare at partner is an American thing. Playford also uses the
word "cast" - you can see the facsimile at:
www.izaak.unh.edu/nhltmd/indexes/dancingmaster/Dance/Play4204.htm
Sharp and Playford then have the ones doing it the other way round -
man up the middle and cast, woman cast up and move down the middle -
though I quite understand callers wanting the twos to have a go!
On Sat, 1 Jun 2013 14:11:47 -0400, Andrea Nettleton wrote:
I have also hard the move called a shuttle, which I
think
diminishes the flirty part too much.
Again, the flirty part is an American invention. I call it a shuttle
because I think it's a good descriptive word. I've also heard it
called Sliding Doors, but (to be pedantic) sliding doors just slide
there and back; they don't go round each other!
Colin Hume
Email colin(a)colinhume.com Web site http://www.colinhume.com
4189
days inactive
4201
days old
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
12 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
Aahz Maruch -
Andrea Nettleton -
Charles Hannum -
Colin Hume -
Erik Hoffman -
Greg McKenzie -
James Saxe -
John W Gintell -
Jonathan Sivier -
Linda Leslie -
Ric Goldman (letsdance)