John Sweeney wrote: Jeff said, "It depends how you dance. In the way I'm most used to dancing the whole swing is a time for interesting variations, and this includes the middle as much as the beginning and end. I think of the swing, middle included, as much more lead-follow than the rest of contra." Hi Jeff, Yes, absolutely. If I get a good partner then, especially if there is a Partner Balance & Swing, I will do a different swing every time through, with interesting stuff in the middle as well as at the beginning and end, including doing symmetrical swings, and using moves borrowed from other dance forms. But I was focussing on the average swing. The most common flourish (and, yes, it is a flourish, not part of the basic swing) is a twirl on entry or exit. I think this whole thread started because someone asked for new terminology and suggested that the "Men" replacement term should indicate that the man leads. I disagree completely. The first book on this dance form was published by John Playford in 1651. The preface starts with, "The Art of Dancing... is a commendable and rare Quality fit for young Gentlemen, if opportunely and civilly used." It continues with five more references to men and not a single mention of ladies! The second dance sets the tone even further: "First man set to his owne, the last man set to his owne, the 2. man salute his owne and turn her." All instructions are directed at the man! It was very much still this way 300 years later when I learnt these dances, with calls such as "swing the lady" still very common. But over the last 50 years it has changed completely in most communities. The call is now "swing your partner". Most callers these days make sure that they use neutral terminology to address all the dancers equally; I find it very strange now when I hear an older caller give an instruction to the men only. The point is that the reference to men in calls is historically connected to the roles of men and ladies in society at the time. It is nothing to do with lead and follow and it has been removed from most modern dance communities. I agree that contra dancing is NOT a lead/follow dance style in the commonly accepted meaning of those terms in the world of dance. While lots of dancers help their partners and neighbours with their eyes and their hands it is equally done by men and ladies. ***To add some implication of leading to a new name for the person on the left would be very wrong.*** There can still be lead and follow in some flourishes, but that is not an intrinsic part of the dance. And, as has been said, who is leading and who is following in those moves depends on the skill of the dancers. There have been references in these threads asking callers not to use the terms leader and follower. Do callers really do that? I don't believe I have ever heard a caller say "leader" or "follower". Personally I use the words "Men" and "Ladies" and have never experienced any feedback. We have lots of ladies taking the man's role, and occasionally a man taking the lady's role. They just do it. Happy dancing, John John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362 http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent