15 Dec
2015
15 Dec
'15
7:35 p.m.
Many callers forget that Petronella is spin-then-balance, and most modern
"Petronella dances" are balance-then-spin".
So saying, "as in Petronella, balance and spin/move one place to the right"
is not accurate either.
More accurate: "Balance the ring, and as in Petronella, spin/move one place
to the right."
(And the difference also can explain why people clap. The chestnut
Petronella has the stomping on the last beats, whereas there's a
stompy-sized hole at the end of modern balance-then-spin Petronella dances.)
On Dec 15, 2015 2:09 PM, "Bill Olson via Callers" <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Hi Erik and all, heh heh, I often chuckle at MYSELF when I find myself
saying that
same thing: "as in Petronella", when I realize very few of the
dancers have ever danced Petronella.. BUT, after trying to teach the move
with out saying the "P word", I realized that some of the dancers at least
know what the move is and having a percentage of the dancers "doing the
right thing" helps the others., especially those who learn by seeing as
opposed to having something "explained"... (with rights and lefts in it
ugh).. I've found saying: "balance the ring and move one place to the right
while pivoting over your right shoulder" doesn't always get everyone doing
the same thing (hah!), if it doesn't actually freeze some dancers in their
tracks!!
Now I hear newer callers saying stuff like "balance the ring and
Petronella to
the right" or "balance left and Rory to the left". Making new
verbs out of these proper names.. well, whatever works!!!
bill
15 Dec
15 Dec
7:40 p.m.
New subject: As in Petronella
"Balance and spin" has the same number of syllables as "Petronella"
and avoids unnecessary jargon Michael Fuerst 802 N Broadway Urbana IL
61801 217 239 5844
On Tuesday, December 15, 2015 1:35 PM, Ron Blechner via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Many callers forget that Petronella is spin-then-balance, and most modern
"Petronella dances" are balance-then-spin".So saying, "as in
Petronella, balance and spin/move one place to the right" is not accurate either.
More accurate: "Balance the ring, and as in Petronella, spin/move one place to the
right."(And the difference also can explain why people clap. The chestnut Petronella
has the stomping on the last beats, whereas there's a stompy-sized hole at the end of
modern balance-then-spin Petronella dances.)On Dec 15, 2015 2:09 PM, "Bill Olson via
Callers" <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Hi Erik and all, heh heh, I often chuckle at MYSELF when I find myself saying that same
thing: "as in Petronella", when I realize very few of the dancers have ever
danced Petronella.. BUT, after trying to teach the move with out saying the "P
word", I realized that some of the dancers at least know what the move is and having
a percentage of the dancers "doing the right thing" helps the others.,
especially those who learn by seeing as opposed to having something
"explained"... (with rights and lefts in it ugh).. I've found saying:
"balance the ring and move one place to the right while pivoting over your right
shoulder" doesn't always get everyone doing the same thing (hah!), if it
doesn't actually freeze some dancers in their tracks!!
Now I hear newer callers saying stuff like "balance the ring and Petronella to the
right" or "balance left and Rory to the left". Making new verbs out of
these proper names.. well, whatever works!!!
bill
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16 Dec
16 Dec
2:54 a.m.
New subject: As in Petronella
On Tue, Dec 15, 2015, Michael Fuerst via Callers wrote:
"Balance and spin" has the same number of syllables as "Petronella"
and avoids unnecessary jargon
Of course, some of us think that unless there's a compelling reason (as
possibly in the case of "gypsy"), keeping the old terminology is part of
the charm of folk dancing (in the generic sense, as opposed to IFD).
Should we also get rid of "California Twirl" and "Mad Robin"?
--
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/
<*> <*> <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
6:20 a.m.
New subject: As in Petronella
Movements are best described with the minimal syllables possible with minimal jargon.
"Mad Robin" became part of contra in the last ten years or so. Unless someone
comes up with more succinct and descriptive words, we are probably stuck with "Mad
Robin"Actually now that I think about it, one could describe the Mad Robin action as
"side gypsy"
"California twirl" predates my 1985 introduction to contra. One could say
"twirl to swap," but that is not any more helpful for new dancers. California
twirl is here to stay.
Concerning "petromella" when I started contra dancing, callers teaching a
dance, would almost always say something like "balance and shift one place and spin
if you wish as in Petromella" and would prompt during the dance with "balance
and spin" or "balance and shift." In the mid '80's we actually
danced "Petronella" often enough so that most dancers knew from where it came.
Only in the past ten years has some callers started calling the move Petronella. I
will always teach and prompt this without reference to "Petronella" and avoid
the unnecessary jargon
There is no compelling reason to stop using gypsy.
Michael Fuerst 802 N Broadway Urbana IL 61801 217 239 5844Links to photos
of many of my drawings and paintings are at www.ArtComesFuerst.com
On Tuesday, December 15, 2015 8:54 PM, Aahz Maruch via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
On Tue, Dec 15, 2015, Michael Fuerst via Callers wrote:
"Balance and spin" has the same number of syllables as "Petronella"
and avoids unnecessary jargon
Of course, some of us think that unless there's a compelling reason (as
possibly in the case of "gypsy"), keeping the old terminology is part of
the charm of folk dancing (in the generic sense, as opposed to IFD).
Should we also get rid of "California Twirl" and "Mad Robin"?
--
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/
<*> <*> <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
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7:56 a.m.
New subject: As in Petronella
On Wed, 16 Dec 2015 06:20:58 +0000 (UTC), Michael Fuerst via Callers
wrote:
"Mad Robin" became part of contra in the
last ten years or so.
Unless someone comes up with more succinct and descriptive words,
we are probably stuck with "Mad Robin"
I use the word "shuttle" (though in the walkthrough I say that some
people call it "Mad Robin" or "Sliding Doors"). Three reasons:
Shuttle is very descriptive whereas Mad Robin is just jargon.
Very few dancers in England have danced the Playford dance "Mad Robin"
(whereas "English" dancers in the States dance it regularly).
It's nothing like the original move in "Mad Robin". There it is done
by one couple only, and there's none of this "locking eyes" stuff that
many Americans love. Cecil Sharp's description (starting with the
ones below the twos and both couples proper) is:
"First man moves up the middle and casts down to the same place; while
his partner casts up and moves down the middle to her place."
"Cast" starts with turning away from your partner, not doing a crab
movement.
Colin Hume
Email colin(a)colinhume.com Web site http://colinhume.com
8:03 a.m.
New subject: As in Petronella
Good idea from Colin. One might also say "slide about, men (or women) in
front" Michael Fuerst 802 N Broadway Urbana IL 61801 217 239
5844http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolution-the-self/201406/8-situati…
On Wednesday, December 16, 2015 1:57 AM, Colin Hume via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
On Wed, 16 Dec 2015 06:20:58 +0000 (UTC), Michael Fuerst via Callers
wrote:
"Mad Robin" became part of contra in the
last ten years or so.
Unless someone comes up with more succinct and descriptive words,
we are probably stuck with "Mad Robin"
I use the word "shuttle" (though in the walkthrough I say that some
people call it "Mad Robin" or "Sliding Doors"). Three reasons:
Shuttle is very descriptive whereas Mad Robin is just jargon.
Very few dancers in England have danced the Playford dance "Mad Robin"
(whereas "English" dancers in the States dance it regularly).
It's nothing like the original move in "Mad Robin". There it is done
by one couple only, and there's none of this "locking eyes" stuff that
many Americans love. Cecil Sharp's description (starting with the
ones below the twos and both couples proper) is:
"First man moves up the middle and casts down to the same place; while
his partner casts up and moves down the middle to her place."
"Cast" starts with turning away from your partner, not doing a crab
movement.
Colin Hume
Email colin(a)colinhume.com Web site http://colinhume.com
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9:09 a.m.
New subject: Mad Robin (was Re: As in Petronella)
Several recent messages to this mailing list have mentioned
alternative--and perhaps more descriptive--names for the
contra dance figure known as "Mad Robin" (after an English
country dance that includes a vaguely similar, but far from
identical, figure):
side gypsy
shuttle
sliding doors [though actual sliding doors don't go
around each other]
slide about, men (or women) in front
As I've pointed out previously
http://lists.sharedweight.net/pipermail/callers-sharedweight.net/2013-June/…
the earliest contra I know to use the figure is "Saint Paddy's
Day" by Kirston Koths, who referred to the figure as a (full)
sashay. Kirston tells me he finished composing the dance on
Oct. 14, 1982. It was first called at Pattie Whitehurst's
wedding reception the same day.
Some time in the 1990's someone else (perhaps Susan Kevra with
"One Hundred Years of Mischief", written in 1995) reintroduced
the figure (independently, I presume), the name "Mad Robin" got
attached to it, and other callers began incorporating it into
new dances.
--Jim
8:18 a.m.
New subject: As in Petronella
I use "Mad Robin" because that's what people use around here, but I
kinda like "sliding doors" for the figure.
-- Alan
On 12/15/15 10:20 PM, Michael Fuerst via Callers wrote:
Movements are best described with the minimal
syllables possible with
minimal jargon.
"Mad Robin" became part of contra in the last ten years or so.
Unless someone comes up with more succinct and descriptive words, we
are probably stuck with "Mad Robin"
Actually now that I think about it, one could describe the Mad Robin
action as "side gypsy"
"California twirl" predates my 1985 introduction to contra. One
could say "twirl to swap," but that is not any more helpful for new
dancers. California twirl is here to stay.
Concerning "petromella" when I started contra dancing, callers
teaching a dance, would almost always say something like "balance and
shift one place and spin if you wish as in Petromella" and would
prompt during the dance with "balance and spin" or "balance and
shift." In the mid '80's we actually danced "Petronella" often
enough so that most dancers knew from where it came. Only in the
past ten years has some callers started calling the move Petronella.
I will always teach and prompt this without reference to
"Petronella" and avoid the unnecessary jargon
There is no compelling reason to stop using gypsy.
Michael Fuerst 802 N Broadway Urbana IL 61801 217 239 5844
Links to photos of many of my drawings and paintings are at
www.ArtComesFuerst.com
On Tuesday, December 15, 2015 8:54 PM, Aahz Maruch via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
On Tue, Dec 15, 2015, Michael Fuerst via Callers wrote:
"Balance and spin" has the same number of syllables as "Petronella"
and avoids unnecessary jargon
Of course, some of us think that unless there's a compelling reason (as
possibly in the case of "gypsy"), keeping the old terminology is part of
the charm of folk dancing (in the generic sense, as opposed to IFD).
Should we also get rid of "California Twirl" and "Mad Robin"?
--
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/
<*> <*> <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
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8:38 a.m.
New subject: As in Petronella
I suspect that for prompting people to act figure descriptions resembling verbs
("slide about") are better than than those resembling nouns ('sliding
doors") Michael Fuerst 802 N Broadway Urbana IL 61801 217 239 5844
On Wednesday, December 16, 2015 2:19 AM, Alan Winston via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I use "Mad Robin" because that's what people use around here, but I kinda
like "sliding doors" for the figure.
-- Alan
On 12/15/15 10:20 PM, Michael Fuerst via Callers wrote:
Movements are best described with the minimal syllables possible with minimal jargon.
"Mad Robin" became part of contra in the last ten years or so. Unless
someone comes up with more succinct and descriptive words, we are probably stuck with
"Mad Robin" Actually now that I think about it, one could describe the Mad Robin
action as "side gypsy"
"California twirl" predates my 1985 introduction to contra. One could say
"twirl to swap," but that is not any more helpful for new dancers. California
twirl is here to stay.
Concerning "petromella" when I started contra dancing, callers teaching a
dance, would almost always say something like "balance and shift one place and spin
if you wish as in Petromella" and would prompt during the dance with "balance
and spin" or "balance and shift." In the mid '80's we actually
danced "Petronella" often enough so that most dancers knew from where it came.
Only in the past ten years has some callers started calling the move Petronella. I
will always teach and prompt this without reference to "Petronella" and avoid
the unnecessary jargon
There is no compelling reason to stop using gypsy.
Michael Fuerst 802 N Broadway Urbana IL 61801 217 239 5844 Links to
photos of many of my drawings and paintings are at www.ArtComesFuerst.com
On Tuesday, December 15, 2015 8:54 PM, Aahz Maruch via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
On Tue, Dec 15, 2015, Michael Fuerst via Callers wrote:
"Balance and spin" has the same number of syllables as "Petronella"
and avoids unnecessary jargon
Of course, some of us think that unless there's a compelling reason (as
possibly in the case of "gypsy"), keeping the old terminology is part of
the charm of folk dancing (in the generic sense, as opposed to IFD).
Should we also get rid of "California Twirl" and "Mad Robin"?
--
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/
<*> <*> <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
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8 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
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Aahz Maruch via Callers -
Alan Winston via Callers
-
Colin Hume via Callers
-
James Saxe via Callers
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Michael Fuerst via Callers
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Ron Blechner via Callers