14 Apr
2023
14 Apr
'23
5:46 p.m.
We have a band in the area that like to play kind of a jazzy swing tune number - and as
far as I can ever remember callers are more than a little surprised by the tune when it
comes out because the dances don’t work with it.
I want to do is find a dance that goes with a swinging jazzy tune, and then ask them to
play it when I choose that dance
I do have one dance I think might’ve been recommended here Ragtime Sammy that goes well
with a rag. However I’m a little concerned it may be too dizzying.
Thought?
Any others??
Laurie PietravalleWest Michigan
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
14 Apr
14 Apr
5:58 p.m.
As a caller and a dance musician who sometimes plays jazz standards for contra dances, I
have found that dances that are a bit marchy (down-the-halls, single promenades, etc) and
bouncier dances (lots of balances) seem to work best with swing tunes. And of course, some
square dances are written to go with swing tunes ("Just Because", etc)
Conversely, very flowing, smooth dances often don't work quite as well.
That said, the nature of the swing tune is also important. Clear phrasing, singable
melodies are helpful, and of course you need the 32-bar structure. Many swing tunes -
like, say, "Bye Bye Blackbird", will have more of a double-time feel - that
swinging, boom-chuck rhythm. But we have also used tunes like "Autumn Leaves"
which are more of a straight swing feel, more relaxed and flowing. Either, though, seems
to work with bouncy and marchy dances; it's just a different vibe.
Listening to some Elixir recordings might provide some fodder for your planning.
Hope that helps, Chuck
________________________________
From: Laur via Contra Callers <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2023 5:46 PM
To: contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
Subject: [Callers] Dances that go to swing dance tunes
We have a band in the area that like to play kind of a jazzy swing tune number - and as
far as I can ever remember callers are more than a little surprised by the tune when it
comes out because the dances don’t work with it.
I want to do is find a dance that goes with a swinging jazzy tune, and then ask them to
play it when I choose that dance
I do have one dance I think might’ve been recommended here Ragtime Sammy that goes well
with a rag. However I’m a little concerned it may be too dizzying.
Thought?
Any others??
Laurie Pietravalle
West Michigan
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone<https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS>
7:56 p.m.
Hi Laurie,
Any chance you could share the tune or a recording? "Jazz" is a very wide
genre, and giving advice for matching dances to jazz is sort of like giving
advice to matching dances to "fiddle music".
Jeff
On Fri, Apr 14, 2023 at 1:58 PM Charles Abell via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
As a caller and a dance musician who sometimes plays
jazz standards for
contra dances, I have found that dances that are a bit marchy
(down-the-halls, single promenades, etc) and bouncier dances (lots of
balances) seem to work best with swing tunes. And of course, some square
dances are written to go with swing tunes ("Just Because", etc) Conversely,
very flowing, smooth dances often don't work quite as well.
That said, the nature of the swing tune is also important. Clear phrasing,
singable melodies are helpful, and of course you need the 32-bar structure.
Many swing tunes - like, say, "Bye Bye Blackbird", will have more of a
double-time feel - that swinging, boom-chuck rhythm. But we have also used
tunes like "Autumn Leaves" which are more of a straight swing feel, more
relaxed and flowing. Either, though, seems to work with bouncy and marchy
dances; it's just a different vibe.
Listening to some Elixir recordings might provide some fodder for your
planning.
Hope that helps, Chuck
------------------------------
*From:* Laur via Contra Callers <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
*Sent:* Friday, April 14, 2023 5:46 PM
*To:* contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
*Subject:* [Callers] Dances that go to swing dance tunes
We have a band in the area that like to play kind of a jazzy swing tune
number - and as far as I can ever remember callers are more than a little
surprised by the tune when it comes out because the dances don’t work with
it.
I want to do is find a dance that goes with a swinging jazzy tune, and
then ask them to play it when I choose that dance
I do have one dance I think might’ve been recommended here
Ragtime Sammy that goes well with a rag. However I’m a little concerned it
may be too dizzying.
Thought?
Any others??
Laurie Pietravalle
West Michigan
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
<https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS>
_______________________________________________
Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
8:16 p.m.
I’ve been trying to find the video someone shared with them playing the tune. I’ll share
when I find.
L
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Friday, April 14, 2023, 3:56 PM, Jeff Kaufman <jeff(a)alum.swarthmore.edu> wrote:
Hi Laurie,
Any chance you could share the tune or a recording? "Jazz" is a very wide
genre, and giving advice for matching dances to jazz is sort of like giving advice to
matching dances to "fiddle music".
Jeff
On Fri, Apr 14, 2023 at 1:58 PM Charles Abell via Contra Callers
<contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
As a caller and a dance musician who sometimes plays jazz standards for contra dances, I
have found that dances that are a bit marchy (down-the-halls, single promenades, etc) and
bouncier dances (lots of balances) seem to work best with swing tunes. And of course, some
square dances are written to go with swing tunes ("Just Because", etc)
Conversely, very flowing, smooth dances often don't work quite as well.
That said, the nature of the swing tune is also important. Clear phrasing, singable
melodies are helpful, and of course you need the 32-bar structure. Many swing tunes -
like, say, "Bye Bye Blackbird", will have more of a double-time feel - that
swinging, boom-chuck rhythm. But we have also used tunes like "Autumn Leaves"
which are more of a straight swing feel, more relaxed and flowing. Either, though, seems
to work with bouncy and marchy dances; it's just a different vibe.
Listening to some Elixir recordings might provide some fodder for your planning.
Hope that helps, Chuck From: Laur via Contra Callers
<contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2023 5:46 PM
To: contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
Subject: [Callers] Dances that go to swing dance tunes We have a band in the area that
like to play kind of a jazzy swing tune number - and as far as I can ever remember callers
are more than a little surprised by the tune when it comes out because the dances don’t
work with it.
I want to do is find a dance that goes with a swinging jazzy tune, and then ask them to
play it when I choose that dance
I do have one dance I think might’ve been recommended here Ragtime Sammy that goes well
with a rag. However I’m a little concerned it may be too dizzying.
Thought?
Any others??
Laurie PietravalleWest Michigan
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
_______________________________________________
Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
9:19 p.m.
its a RAG, Sorry. I finally remembered - ... Beaumont Rag. they play it a little less
bluegrassy than I can find on YouTube. This is close - Here's the tune (not the
players) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13PQT9ubOdc
Are there any other dances you could think that would fit?
I think this dance by Ridge Kennedy can fit it. tempo will be key. And thanks to the list
from a few years back for sharing it-
Ragtime Sammy - Ridge Kennedy
A1 Star Right hands across Star Left hands across
A2 Gents turn back over Rt. Shoulder (peel off) Walk around Ngh
Ngh Swing
B1 Circle Left 3/4 Partner Swing
B2 Ladies Almd Right 1-1/2 Ngh Almd Left 1-1/2
laurie P
~ When I dance, I cannot judge, I cannot hate, I cannot separate myself from life. I can
only be joyful and whole, that is why I dance. ~Hans Bos~ ~
On Friday, April 14, 2023 at 04:16:31 PM EDT, Laur via Contra Callers
<contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I’ve been trying to find the video someone shared with them playing the tune. I’ll share
when I find.
L
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Friday, April 14, 2023, 3:56 PM, Jeff Kaufman <jeff(a)alum.swarthmore.edu> wrote:
Hi Laurie,
Any chance you could share the tune or a recording? "Jazz" is a very wide
genre, and giving advice for matching dances to jazz is sort of like giving advice to
matching dances to "fiddle music".
Jeff
On Fri, Apr 14, 2023 at 1:58 PM Charles Abell via Contra Callers
<contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
As a caller and a dance musician who sometimes plays jazz standards for contra dances, I
have found that dances that are a bit marchy (down-the-halls, single promenades, etc) and
bouncier dances (lots of balances) seem to work best with swing tunes. And of course, some
square dances are written to go with swing tunes ("Just Because", etc)
Conversely, very flowing, smooth dances often don't work quite as well.
That said, the nature of the swing tune is also important. Clear phrasing, singable
melodies are helpful, and of course you need the 32-bar structure. Many swing tunes -
like, say, "Bye Bye Blackbird", will have more of a double-time feel - that
swinging, boom-chuck rhythm. But we have also used tunes like "Autumn Leaves"
which are more of a straight swing feel, more relaxed and flowing. Either, though, seems
to work with bouncy and marchy dances; it's just a different vibe.
Listening to some Elixir recordings might provide some fodder for your planning.
Hope that helps, Chuck From: Laur via Contra Callers
<contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2023 5:46 PM
To: contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
Subject: [Callers] Dances that go to swing dance tunes We have a band in the area that
like to play kind of a jazzy swing tune number - and as far as I can ever remember callers
are more than a little surprised by the tune when it comes out because the dances don’t
work with it.
I want to do is find a dance that goes with a swinging jazzy tune, and then ask them to
play it when I choose that dance
I do have one dance I think might’ve been recommended here Ragtime Sammy that goes well
with a rag. However I’m a little concerned it may be too dizzying.
Thought?
Any others??
Laurie PietravalleWest Michigan
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
_______________________________________________
Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
11:05 p.m.
Just searched my on-disk notes, and discovered two dances that call out Beaumont Rag as a
suitable tune.
Balance the Star by the McLain family. A Sicilian Circle,. suitable for beginners
Notes here: https://www.library.unh.edu/special/forms/rpdlw/syllabus2013.pdf#page=17
"Colin's Carnival Ride" by Rick Mohr, a more intermediate-level dance.
Notes here: https://www.ibiblio.org/contradance/thecallersbox/dance.php?id=144
Hope this helps!
-- Alan
________________________________________
From: Laur via Contra Callers <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2023 2:19 PM
To: Jeff Kaufman
Cc: contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Subject: [Callers] Re: Dances that go to swing dance tunes
its a RAG, Sorry. I finally remembered - ... Beaumont Rag. they play it a little less
bluegrassy than I can find on YouTube. This is close - Here's the tune (not the
players) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13PQT9ubOdc
Are there any other dances you could think that would fit?
I think this dance by Ridge Kennedy can fit it. tempo will be key. And thanks to the list
from a few years back for sharing it-
Ragtime Sammy - Ridge Kennedy
A1 Star Right hands across
Star Left hands across
A2 Gents turn back over Rt. Shoulder (peel off)
Walk around Ngh
Ngh Swing
B1 Circle Left 3/4
Partner Swing
B2 Ladies Almd Right 1-1/2
Ngh Almd Left 1-1/2
laurie P
~ When I dance, I cannot judge, I cannot hate, I cannot separate myself from life. I can
only be joyful and whole, that is why I dance. ~Hans Bos~ ~
On Friday, April 14, 2023 at 04:16:31 PM EDT, Laur via Contra Callers
<contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I’ve been trying to find the video someone shared with them playing the tune. I’ll share
when I find.
L
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone<https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS>
On Friday, April 14, 2023, 3:56 PM, Jeff Kaufman <jeff(a)alum.swarthmore.edu> wrote:
Hi Laurie,
Any chance you could share the tune or a recording? "Jazz" is a very wide
genre, and giving advice for matching dances to jazz is sort of like giving advice to
matching dances to "fiddle music".
Jeff
On Fri, Apr 14, 2023 at 1:58 PM Charles Abell via Contra Callers
<contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
wrote:
As a caller and a dance musician who sometimes plays jazz standards for contra dances, I
have found that dances that are a bit marchy (down-the-halls, single promenades, etc) and
bouncier dances (lots of balances) seem to work best with swing tunes. And of course, some
square dances are written to go with swing tunes ("Just Because", etc)
Conversely, very flowing, smooth dances often don't work quite as well.
That said, the nature of the swing tune is also important. Clear phrasing, singable
melodies are helpful, and of course you need the 32-bar structure. Many swing tunes -
like, say, "Bye Bye Blackbird", will have more of a double-time feel - that
swinging, boom-chuck rhythm. But we have also used tunes like "Autumn Leaves"
which are more of a straight swing feel, more relaxed and flowing. Either, though, seems
to work with bouncy and marchy dances; it's just a different vibe.
Listening to some Elixir recordings might provide some fodder for your planning.
Hope that helps, Chuck
________________________________
From: Laur via Contra Callers
<contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2023 5:46 PM
To:
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>
<contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
Subject: [Callers] Dances that go to swing dance tunes
We have a band in the area that like to play kind of a jazzy swing tune number - and as
far as I can ever remember callers are more than a little surprised by the tune when it
comes out because the dances don’t work with it.
I want to do is find a dance that goes with a swinging jazzy tune, and then ask them to
play it when I choose that dance
I do have one dance I think might’ve been recommended here Ragtime Sammy that goes well
with a rag. However I’m a little concerned it may be too dizzying.
Thought?
Any others??
Laurie Pietravalle
West Michigan
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone<https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS>
_______________________________________________
Contra Callers mailing list --
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>
To unsubscribe send an email to
contracallers-leave@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:contracallers-leave@lists.sharedweight.net>
_______________________________________________
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contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>
To unsubscribe send an email to
contracallers-leave@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:contracallers-leave@lists.sharedweight.net>
11:07 p.m.
Awesome thanks.
Laurie
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Friday, April 14, 2023, 7:05 PM, Winston, Alan P. <winston(a)slac.stanford.edu>
wrote:
Just searched my on-disk notes, and discovered two dances that call out Beaumont Rag as a
suitable tune.
Balance the Star by the McLain family. A Sicilian Circle,. suitable for beginners
Notes here: https://www.library.unh.edu/special/forms/rpdlw/syllabus2013.pdf#page=17
"Colin's Carnival Ride" by Rick Mohr, a more intermediate-level dance.
Notes here: https://www.ibiblio.org/contradance/thecallersbox/dance.php?id=144
Hope this helps!
-- Alan
________________________________________
From: Laur via Contra Callers <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2023 2:19 PM
To: Jeff Kaufman
Cc: contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Subject: [Callers] Re: Dances that go to swing dance tunes
its a RAG, Sorry. I finally remembered - ... Beaumont Rag. they play it a little less
bluegrassy than I can find on YouTube. This is close - Here's the tune (not the
players) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13PQT9ubOdc
Are there any other dances you could think that would fit?
I think this dance by Ridge Kennedy can fit it. tempo will be key. And thanks to the list
from a few years back for sharing it-
Ragtime Sammy - Ridge Kennedy
A1 Star Right hands across
Star Left hands across
A2 Gents turn back over Rt. Shoulder (peel off)
Walk around Ngh
Ngh Swing
B1 Circle Left 3/4
Partner Swing
B2 Ladies Almd Right 1-1/2
Ngh Almd Left 1-1/2
laurie P
~ When I dance, I cannot judge, I cannot hate, I cannot separate myself from life. I can
only be joyful and whole, that is why I dance. ~Hans Bos~ ~
On Friday, April 14, 2023 at 04:16:31 PM EDT, Laur via Contra Callers
<contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I’ve been trying to find the video someone shared with them playing the tune. I’ll share
when I find.
L
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone<https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS>
On Friday, April 14, 2023, 3:56 PM, Jeff Kaufman <jeff(a)alum.swarthmore.edu> wrote:
Hi Laurie,
Any chance you could share the tune or a recording? "Jazz" is a very wide
genre, and giving advice for matching dances to jazz is sort of like giving advice to
matching dances to "fiddle music".
Jeff
On Fri, Apr 14, 2023 at 1:58 PM Charles Abell via Contra Callers
<contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
wrote:
As a caller and a dance musician who sometimes plays jazz standards for contra dances, I
have found that dances that are a bit marchy (down-the-halls, single promenades, etc) and
bouncier dances (lots of balances) seem to work best with swing tunes. And of course, some
square dances are written to go with swing tunes ("Just Because", etc)
Conversely, very flowing, smooth dances often don't work quite as well.
That said, the nature of the swing tune is also important. Clear phrasing, singable
melodies are helpful, and of course you need the 32-bar structure. Many swing tunes -
like, say, "Bye Bye Blackbird", will have more of a double-time feel - that
swinging, boom-chuck rhythm. But we have also used tunes like "Autumn Leaves"
which are more of a straight swing feel, more relaxed and flowing. Either, though, seems
to work with bouncy and marchy dances; it's just a different vibe.
Listening to some Elixir recordings might provide some fodder for your planning.
Hope that helps, Chuck
________________________________
From: Laur via Contra Callers
<contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2023 5:46 PM
To:
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>
<contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
Subject: [Callers] Dances that go to swing dance tunes
We have a band in the area that like to play kind of a jazzy swing tune number - and as
far as I can ever remember callers are more than a little surprised by the tune when it
comes out because the dances don’t work with it.
I want to do is find a dance that goes with a swinging jazzy tune, and then ask them to
play it when I choose that dance
I do have one dance I think might’ve been recommended here Ragtime Sammy that goes well
with a rag. However I’m a little concerned it may be too dizzying.
Thought?
Any others??
Laurie Pietravalle
West Michigan
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone<https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS>
_______________________________________________
Contra Callers mailing list --
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>
To unsubscribe send an email to
contracallers-leave@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:contracallers-leave@lists.sharedweight.net>
_______________________________________________
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contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>
To unsubscribe send an email to
contracallers-leave@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:contracallers-leave@lists.sharedweight.net>
11:55 p.m.
Laurie,
I checked out the video you mentioned
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13PQT9ubOdc
and the music seemed quite quite danceable, as I would expect from the duo in the video,
Patt and Possum (Patt Plunkett and Charlie "Possum" Walden), and suitable for
the general run of contra dances. If it's not working for your local dancers, I'm
inclined to wonder whether your local band's arrangement is different in a way that
impairs danceability. Could they be playing too fast or too slow? Could they be using an
odd arrangement of parts so that a distinctive bit of the music keeps coming at different
points in the figure? Could the rhythm player(s) and melody player(s) sometimes both be
playing creative variations at the same time, so the dancers have no anchor to keep then
on phrase?
Alan Winston mentioned finding notes on "two dances that call out Beaumont Rag as a
suitable tune," namely "Balance the Star" and "Colin's Carnival
Ride". I'll note that the parts of those dances that I think fit the tune
"Beaumont Rag" particularly well are the double balances in the A parts of
"Balance the Star" and the wave-of-4 balance at the and of B1 in
"Colin's Carnival Ride." However, I'll repeat that the tune, suitably
played, should be perfectly fine for a generic contra dance.
Unfortunately, the video with Patt and Possum doesn't show the dancers, but here's
a video of Gene Hubert's dance "Butter" with The McKenzies playing a medley
of rags. "Beaumont Rag" is the last tune in the medley, and they switch into it
at about 5:28.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOOYAMcYVBg
--Jim
On Apr 14, 2023, at 4:05 PM, Winston, Alan P. via
Contra Callers <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Just searched my on-disk notes, and discovered two dances that call out Beaumont Rag as a
suitable tune.
Balance the Star by the McLain family. A Sicilian Circle,. suitable for beginners
Notes here: https://www.library.unh.edu/special/forms/rpdlw/syllabus2013.pdf#page=17
"Colin's Carnival Ride" by Rick Mohr, a more intermediate-level dance.
Notes here: https://www.ibiblio.org/contradance/thecallersbox/dance.php?id=144
Hope this helps!
-- Alan
________________________________________
From: Laur via Contra Callers <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2023 2:19 PM
To: Jeff Kaufman
Cc: contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Subject: [Callers] Re: Dances that go to swing dance tunes
its a RAG, Sorry. I finally remembered - ... Beaumont Rag. they play it a little less
bluegrassy than I can find on YouTube. This is close - Here's the tune (not the
players) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13PQT9ubOdc
Are there any other dances you could think that would fit?
I think this dance by Ridge Kennedy can fit it. tempo will be key. And thanks to the list
from a few years back for sharing it-
Ragtime Sammy - Ridge Kennedy
A1 Star Right hands across
Star Left hands across
A2 Gents turn back over Rt. Shoulder (peel off)
Walk around Ngh
Ngh Swing
B1 Circle Left 3/4
Partner Swing
B2 Ladies Almd Right 1-1/2
Ngh Almd Left 1-1/2
laurie P
~ When I dance, I cannot judge, I cannot hate, I cannot separate myself from life. I can
only be joyful and whole, that is why I dance. ~Hans Bos~ ~
On Friday, April 14, 2023 at 04:16:31 PM EDT, Laur via Contra Callers
<contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I’ve been trying to find the video someone shared with them playing the tune. I’ll share
when I find.
L
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone<https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS>
On Friday, April 14, 2023, 3:56 PM, Jeff Kaufman <jeff(a)alum.swarthmore.edu> wrote:
Hi Laurie,
Any chance you could share the tune or a recording? "Jazz" is a very wide
genre, and giving advice for matching dances to jazz is sort of like giving advice to
matching dances to "fiddle music".
Jeff
On Fri, Apr 14, 2023 at 1:58 PM Charles Abell via Contra Callers
<contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
wrote:
As a caller and a dance musician who sometimes plays jazz standards for contra dances, I
have found that dances that are a bit marchy (down-the-halls, single promenades, etc) and
bouncier dances (lots of balances) seem to work best with swing tunes. And of course, some
square dances are written to go with swing tunes ("Just Because", etc)
Conversely, very flowing, smooth dances often don't work quite as well.
That said, the nature of the swing tune is also important. Clear phrasing, singable
melodies are helpful, and of course you need the 32-bar structure. Many swing tunes -
like, say, "Bye Bye Blackbird", will have more of a double-time feel - that
swinging, boom-chuck rhythm. But we have also used tunes like "Autumn Leaves"
which are more of a straight swing feel, more relaxed and flowing. Either, though, seems
to work with bouncy and marchy dances; it's just a different vibe.
Listening to some Elixir recordings might provide some fodder for your planning.
Hope that helps, Chuck
________________________________
From: Laur via Contra Callers
<contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2023 5:46 PM
To:
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>
<contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
Subject: [Callers] Dances that go to swing dance tunes
We have a band in the area that like to play kind of a jazzy swing tune number - and as
far as I can ever remember callers are more than a little surprised by the tune when it
comes out because the dances don’t work with it.
I want to do is find a dance that goes with a swinging jazzy tune, and then ask them to
play it when I choose that dance
I do have one dance I think might’ve been recommended here Ragtime Sammy that goes well
with a rag. However I’m a little concerned it may be too dizzying.
Thought?
Any others??
Laurie Pietravalle
West Michigan
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone<https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS>
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15 Apr
15 Apr
4:39 p.m.
Laurie,
I started getting the feeling that we've been over this subject before, and I found
thread about "Beaumont Rag" started on 2022/04/27 either by you or by some other
"Laur" with the subject line "Need help fitting to a tune". I'm
forwarding below a message I sent on 2022/04/28.
In my message I included links to recordings of several renditions of "Beaumont
Rag" that I thought were quite suitable for contra dancing and also to several
versions that I said didn't fit the standard structure of a contra dance. About the
latter group, I wrote:
... If you listen to any of them and try counting
along from 1 to 16 over and over, you'll find that at some point you get to
"8" or "4" and the music signals strongly that it's time to start
again at "1".
Did you ever try that? If not, I *strongly* recommend that you try it now and let us know
what you think.
If your local band is playing a version of "Beaumont Rag" that includes 12-bar
or 10-bar parts, then it not only won't work well for the general run of contra
dances, but it also won't work for the specific dances that some folks here have
recommended based on the tune title.
If you can determine for sure that (as I'm guessing) the phrase lengths in your local
band's version of the tune are the problem, or if you can definitely pinpoint some
other reason that what they're playing isn't working for you and for other local
callers and dancers, the question remains whether there's anything you can do about it
besides ask them not to play the tune for dances you call.
Perhaps you could try getting advice from some other local musician(s) whom you trust to
have a solid understanding of what works for contra dancing. (Ask them nicely; thank them
profusely; offer to pay their gas money and/or treat them to dinner; ...) A solid dance
musician might be better able than you to identify specific things about the band's
rendition of the tune that are causing problems. The members of the band might be more
receptive to advice from a respected fellow musician than from a caller. And your musician
friend might be able to advise you about how to approach the band in a tactful way that
won't immediately ruffle their feathers and put them in a mood where they just
don't want to hear whatever anyone wants to tell them. Or they might know enough about
the personalities of the people involved to recognize whether any attempt to broach the
subject would be like walking into a minefield and you might as well forget it.
Good luck.
--Jim
Begin forwarded message:
From: jim saxe <Jim.Saxe(a)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Callers] Need help fitting to a tune
Date: April 28, 2022 at 12:49:37 PM PDT
To: Contra Callers <contracallers(a)sharedweight.net>et>, Laur <lcpgr(a)yahoo.com>
Cc: Bill Olson <callbill(a)hotmail.com>
Laur,
It's hard to describe stuff about music in words and be sure of being clear, so
I'm going to illustrate my remarks by citing some recordings.
First, there's at least one version of "Beaumont Rag" that's a
perfectly fine contra dance contra dance tune. Check out these videos. (Times in
parentheses tell when the band switches into "Beaumont Rag" from another tune.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pG0i8NTYGvc (4:08)
[Note added 2023/04/15: The preceding video in no longer available. I believe all
the others I've cited in this message still are. --js]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOOYAMcYVBg
(5:28)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynafcljHXhk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13PQT9ubOdc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArLulDsc-fg
All the music in these six videos strikes me as quite suitable for contra dancing. In the
ones that give a good view of the dancers, they don't seem to be struggling. Even when
you can't see the dancers, you can tell by the sound that things are going well. In
particular, you won't hear any callers who sound like they're sweating bullets
trying to keep the dance together.
The versions of the tune in the videos above certainly aren't note for note
identical, and some bands put in a fair amount of variation from one round of the tune to
the next, but they all stick closely to the same basic phrasing.
If your local band plays "Beaumont Rag" and it doesn’t work for the dancers and
it’s agonizing for the callers, then I wonder what they're doing that's different
from what's happening in the videos above.
Bill Olson wrote:
... there are SO many ways Beaumont Rag is
played. Not all of them are 32 bars long. and it is often played as a "show off'
tune at Bluegrass festivals, i.e. REALLY FAST!!!
The tempos in the videos above range from about 111 to 127 beats per minute. Illustrating
Bill's point about people sometimes playing real fast, here's a recording I found
at a beat or two above 140:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3HxHClfJso
And here are some examples, at various tempos, illustrating Bill's point about not
all versions being 32 bars long:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNhcKJTW9Hg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2IRu8quLRs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NB8IPHdiXo&t=1347s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WRCyqaNxas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQeNPeQpZJY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKdAupCMDPw
In fact, none of these six is entirely in 8-bar (16-beat) phrases. If you listen to any
of them and try counting along from 1 to 16 over and over, you'll find that at some
point you get to "8" or "4" and the music signals strongly that
it's time to start again at "1".
If your local band's version of "Beaumont Rag" is like any of those last
six, then regardless of the tempo it won't be a good fit for any standard-length
contra dance and it won't be a good fit for "Balance the Star" or "Anna
Turn's Five" or other dances that people have been suggesting, either.
Another thing that could be going wrong is that there's something about the
band's style of playing for that particular tune that somehow obscures the phrasing.
Take a listen to this guitar version of "Beaumont Rag" played with undeniable
skill by Mark O'Connor:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJuXNiybth0
I _think_ it's mostly (perhaps entirely?) in 8-bar phrases, but there are places
where, at least for me, it's a struggle to keep track. And I don't think it's
just on account of the high speed. It's something about the ornamentation. That sort
of playing could be great for a concert, but at a contra dance, I think that even if the
dancers could dance to it, a lot of them would find it more work than fun. (Possibly,
however, it could make all the difference in the world if another band member were giving
the dancers rock-solid phrasing.)
Bill also wrote:
the tune is pretty much fun if played AABB at a
reasonable tempo. ...
Returning to my opening observation
It's hard to describe stuff about music in
words and be sure of being clear,
let me offer a final word of caution. If the issue turns out to be that the band plays a
"crooked" version of "Beaumont Rag", then even _if_ your relationship
with the band is such that you could appropriately suggest that a different version would
work better for contra dancing, and even _if_ you could get them completely sold on the
idea, and even _if_ they were not merely willing but eager to try it (all VERY BIG
"if"s), I can almost guarantee (without going into the details) that saying
"AABB" would _not_ be an adequate way to describe the version you're
suggesting.
I hope some of this is helpful.
--Jim 
7:01 a.m.
Susan Kevra wrote The Country of Marriage to go to the tune Beaumont Rag.
https://colinhume.com/instl.htm#CountryOfMarriage
Colin Hume
16 Apr
16 Apr
12:52 a.m.
Btw. They did Rag and it was great with the zRagtime Sammy
But they did play a swing tune.
…,
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Saturday, April 15, 2023, 3:02 AM, Colin Hume via Contra Callers
<contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Susan Kevra wrote The Country of Marriage to go to the tune Beaumont Rag.
https://colinhume.com/instl.htm#CountryOfMarriage
Colin Hume
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14 Apr
14 Apr
10:48 p.m.
Hi,
Any dance goes to any tune. The genre is not important. What is important
is the phrasing, the length, the time signature and the tempo.
Happy dancing,
John
John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 574
http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
616
days inactive
618
days old
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
11 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
Charles Abell -
Colin Hume -
Jeff Kaufman -
jim saxe -
John Sweeney -
Laur -
Winston, Alan P.