13 Aug
2011
13 Aug
'11
11:20 a.m.
In a recent post I defined a contra dance as:
- longways for as many as will
- first couples Improper, or Becket formation
- flowing choreography
- no-one stationary for more than 16 beats (e.g. First Couple Balance &
Swing, finish facing down to make Lines of Four)
- containing at least one swing
- 95% of the moves to be from a set of well-know moves that they know
already
Is that what most Americans understand by a "contra dance"?
I asked:
Are you allowed to do Proper dances at a "contra dance"? Or a
four-couple dance that has all the other characteristics listed above?
Or a Sicilian Circle (space allowing)?
But got no answer.
Taking it a step further - this is a popular dance over here in the UK:
Childgrove (Playford 1701)
A1: Partner Siding; Partner Dosido
A2: Neighbour Siding; Neighbour Dosido
B1: Neighbour Two-Hand Turn 1 & 1/2 (skip step)
Partner Two-Hand Turn
B2: #1s Full Figure Eight up through the #2s (who can cast to turn
it into a double-figure-eight if they like) (skip step)
It has all the characteristics defined above apart from the swing being
replaced by a skipped two-hand turn. And of course the moves may not be
all familiar to contra dancers. If I called that at an American contra
dance, to great music from a live band, what reaction would I get?
Thanks. Just trying to understand. :-)
Happy dancing,
John
John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362 &
07802 940 574
http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
13 Aug
13 Aug
11:58 a.m.
On 8/13/2011 6:20, John Sweeney wrote:
In a recent post I defined a contra dance as:
- longways for as many as will
- first couples Improper, or Becket formation
- flowing choreography
- no-one stationary for more than 16 beats (e.g. First Couple Balance&
Swing, finish facing down to make Lines of Four)
- containing at least one swing
- 95% of the moves to be from a set of well-know moves that they know
already
Is that what most Americans understand by a "contra dance"?
In ONE word:
YES!
In a few more words: you did not mention triple minors. They appear on contra
events, albeit not very often. Sackett's Harbor, Long Valley
I asked:
Are you allowed to do Proper dances at a "contra dance"? Or a
four-couple dance that has all the other characteristics listed above?
Or a Sicilian Circle (space allowing)?
Again: YES
but rarely.
Childgrove (Playford 1701)
And of course the moves may not be all familiar to
contra dancers. If I
called that at an American contra
dance, to great music from a live band, what reaction
would I get?
It has been part of contra repertoire for a looooooooooong time, and
you'd be
surprised:
a) the moves ARE familiar, and
b) you wouldn't get any special reaction because it isn't considered a special
dance - you wouldn't even get credit for the discovery that the dance 'fits'.
You didn't ask, but here goes anyway:
an evening of contras usually features a waltz at the break and one at the end
frequently a Swedish Hambo is played during intermission, and those who can will
dance it.
Hanny, Danzmeestersche
12:05 p.m.
John wrote:
In a recent post I defined a contra dance as:
- longways for as many as will
- first couples Improper, or Becket formation
- flowing choreography
- no-one stationary for more than 16 beats (e.g. First Couple Balance &
Swing, finish facing down to make Lines of Four)
- containing at least one swing
- 95% of the moves to be from a set of well-know moves that they know
already
(And I would add that most of those figures are connected; dancers are very
rarely asked to go on a track by themselves.)
Is that what most Americans understand by a
"contra dance"?
Yes.
I asked:
Are you allowed to do Proper dances at a "contra dance"? Or a
four-couple dance that has all the other characteristics listed above?
Or a Sicilian Circle (space allowing)?
But got no answer.
It depends somewhat on the community. The big-city (modern urban contra) scene
tends to devolve toward longways contra, but charismatic, opinionated, and good
callers can make a difference.
At contra dances in the San Francisco Bay Area I have seen:
- squares (and many people sit down for them)
- triplets (and many people complain about gimmicks)
- circle mixers
- four-face-four
- proper contras (rarely)
- triple-minor contras (Sackett's Harbor - but not in the last 10 years)
- scatter mixers
- couple dances: waltz, polka, hambo
and at contra dance camps/weekends I've also seen
- grid squares
- Appalachian big circle figures
Taking it a step further - this is a popular dance
over here in the UK:
Childgrove (Playford 1701)
A1: Partner Siding; Partner Dosido
A2: Neighbour Siding; Neighbour Dosido
B1: Neighbour Two-Hand Turn 1 & 1/2 (skip step)
Partner Two-Hand Turn
B2: #1s Full Figure Eight up through the #2s (who can cast to turn
it into a double-figure-eight if they like) (skip step)
It has all the characteristics defined above apart
from the swing being
replaced by a skipped two-hand turn. And of course the moves may not be
all familiar to contra dancers. If I called that at an American contra
dance, to great music from a live band, what reaction would I get?
Depends on the crowd, but it's not something I'd be inclined to try except
under very specific circumstances.
(Except for crossover English dancers, you'd have to teach siding, your dosido
would end up with a lot of twirls in it, and you'd have to teach the figure
eight from zero, the two-hand turns at different speeds might be challenging.)
If the band plays it as they would for an English dance, the contra dancers
won't know what to do with it (as I know from sad experience). If you play it
like a contra dance tune, you won't get an English dance out of it.
(I bet Cammy Kaynor could sell it to his dancers, though.)
I was recently at a contra dance camp which had a late-night "Trash English"
session. Bluesy, swingy, low-down versions of English tunes, and dancers
responding to them with contra and swing body language and flourishes, using
the original figures as an armature on which to hang those variations. Great
music, strong dancers, really fun. Childgrove would have been fine there.
Hope that helps somewhat.
-- Alan
--
===============================================================================
Alan Winston --- WINSTON(a)SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056
Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA 94025
===============================================================================
4:18 p.m.
Alan provides a good list of alternatives to duple improper dances. At the various dances
here in New Hampshire, we will always do at least one of those alternatives at every
dance, and more often 3 or 4 or more.
Chorus Jig is the favorite proper dance (happens every Monday night at the Nelson dance),
but there are others from time to time, as well. Also triple-minors like Sackett's
Harbor, or Money Musk are called very regularly. Mixers, both circle and scatter, are
also danced quite often, especially when there is a larger proportion of new dancers, as
dancing with a larger number of alternate partners helps the learnig process proceed more
quickly. There are also a number of callers here who like to include some squares,
espcially the older New England variety of singing squares, such as Nellie Gray, Smoke on
the Water, Just Because, and the Auctioneer.
Rich.
Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing remarked on 8/13/2011 7:05 AM:
John wrote:
In a recent post I defined a contra dance as:
- longways for as many as will
- first couples Improper, or Becket formation
- flowing choreography
- no-one stationary for more than 16 beats (e.g. First Couple Balance&
Swing, finish facing down to make Lines of Four)
- containing at least one swing
- 95% of the moves to be from a set of well-know moves that they know
already
(And I would add that most of those figures are connected; dancers are
very
rarely asked to go on a track by themselves.)
Is that what most Americans understand by a
"contra dance"?
Yes.
I asked:
Are you allowed to do Proper dances at a "contra dance"? Or a
four-couple dance that has all the other characteristics listed above?
Or a Sicilian Circle (space allowing)?
But got no answer.
It depends somewhat on the community. The big-city (modern urban contra) scene
tends to devolve toward longways contra, but charismatic, opinionated, and good
callers can make a difference.
At contra dances in the San Francisco Bay Area I have seen:
- squares (and many people sit down for them)
- triplets (and many people complain about gimmicks)
- circle mixers
- four-face-four
- proper contras (rarely)
- triple-minor contras (Sackett's Harbor - but not in the last 10 years)
- scatter mixers
- couple dances: waltz, polka, hambo
and at contra dance camps/weekends I've also seen
- grid squares
- Appalachian big circle figures
Taking it a step further - this is a popular
dance over here in the UK:
Childgrove (Playford 1701)
A1: Partner Siding; Partner Dosido
A2: Neighbour Siding; Neighbour Dosido
B1: Neighbour Two-Hand Turn 1& 1/2 (skip step)
Partner Two-Hand Turn
B2: #1s Full Figure Eight up through the #2s (who can cast to turn
it into a double-figure-eight if they like) (skip step)
It has all the characteristics defined above
apart from the swing being
replaced by a skipped two-hand turn. And of course the moves may not be
all familiar to contra dancers. If I called that at an American contra
dance, to great music from a live band, what reaction would I get?
Depends on the crowd, but it's not something I'd be inclined to try except
under very specific circumstances.
(Except for crossover English dancers, you'd have to teach siding, your dosido
would end up with a lot of twirls in it, and you'd have to teach the figure
eight from zero, the two-hand turns at different speeds might be challenging.)
If the band plays it as they would for an English dance, the contra dancers
won't know what to do with it (as I know from sad experience). If you play it
like a contra dance tune, you won't get an English dance out of it.
(I bet Cammy Kaynor could sell it to his dancers, though.)
I was recently at a contra dance camp which had a late-night "Trash English"
session. Bluesy, swingy, low-down versions of English tunes, and dancers
responding to them with contra and swing body language and flourishes, using
the original figures as an armature on which to hang those variations. Great
music, strong dancers, really fun. Childgrove would have been fine there.
Hope that helps somewhat.
-- Alan
5:26 p.m.
John - Alan's answer would fit the Midwestern part of America as well. There
are people with renewed energy here trying to expand the "acceptable"
repertoire, but if you asked a dancer who attends only contra dances about
any of this, he/she would want only longways, duple sets with standard
moves, a partner swing AND a neighbor swing, and constant motion. They would
complain that callers are being self-indulgent merely by calling a square
dance. If you called a triple minor, there might be a small rebellion (I
speak from experience with this). Four-facing Four is okay, but circle
dances are rare except at dances with less experienced dancers at them.
We usually end each half of the dance with a waltz, and our old-time bands
have begun following that with a polka at the end of the evening. In the old
days (but no more) there would be a hambo at the break.
Thanks for bringing up this question and for your perspective. If only the
word "céilidh" were easier to spell, I'd probably try to hold one.
M
E
On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 6:05 AM, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <
winston(a)slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
John wrote:
--
As you set out for Ithaka, pray that your journey be long, full of
adventure, full of discovery...
May there be many summer mornings when, with what pleasure, with what joy,
you enter harbors you're seeing for the first time.
~Constantine Cavafy, "Ithaka" 1911
In a recent post I defined a contra dance as:
- longways for as many as will
- first couples Improper, or Becket formation
- flowing choreography
- no-one stationary for more than 16 beats (e.g. First Couple Balance &
Swing, finish facing down to make Lines of Four)
- containing at least one swing
- 95% of the moves to be from a set of well-know moves that they know
already
(And I would add that most of those figures are connected; dancers are very
rarely asked to go on a track by themselves.)
Is that what most Americans understand by a
"contra dance"?
Yes.
I asked:
Are you allowed to do Proper dances at a "contra dance"? Or a
four-couple dance that has all the other characteristics listed above?
Or a Sicilian Circle (space allowing)?
But got no answer.
It depends somewhat on the community. The big-city (modern urban contra)
scene
tends to devolve toward longways contra, but charismatic, opinionated, and
good
callers can make a difference.
At contra dances in the San Francisco Bay Area I have seen:
- squares (and many people sit down for them)
- triplets (and many people complain about gimmicks)
- circle mixers
- four-face-four
- proper contras (rarely)
- triple-minor contras (Sackett's Harbor - but not in the last 10 years)
- scatter mixers
- couple dances: waltz, polka, hambo
and at contra dance camps/weekends I've also seen
- grid squares
- Appalachian big circle figures
Taking it a step further - this is a popular
dance over here in the UK:
Childgrove (Playford 1701)
A1: Partner Siding; Partner Dosido
A2: Neighbour Siding; Neighbour Dosido
B1: Neighbour Two-Hand Turn 1 & 1/2 (skip step)
Partner Two-Hand Turn
B2: #1s Full Figure Eight up through the #2s (who can cast to turn
it into a double-figure-eight if they like) (skip step)
It has all the characteristics defined above
apart from the swing being
replaced by a skipped two-hand turn. And of course the moves may not be
all familiar to contra dancers. If I called that at an American contra
dance, to great music from a live band, what reaction would I get?
Depends on the crowd, but it's not something I'd be inclined to try except
under very specific circumstances.
(Except for crossover English dancers, you'd have to teach siding, your
dosido
would end up with a lot of twirls in it, and you'd have to teach the figure
eight from zero, the two-hand turns at different speeds might be
challenging.)
If the band plays it as they would for an English dance, the contra dancers
won't know what to do with it (as I know from sad experience). If you play
it
like a contra dance tune, you won't get an English dance out of it.
(I bet Cammy Kaynor could sell it to his dancers, though.)
I was recently at a contra dance camp which had a late-night "Trash
English"
session. Bluesy, swingy, low-down versions of English tunes, and dancers
responding to them with contra and swing body language and flourishes,
using
the original figures as an armature on which to hang those variations.
Great
music, strong dancers, really fun. Childgrove would have been fine there.
Hope that helps somewhat.
-- Alan
--
===============================================================================
Alan Winston --- WINSTON(a)SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone:
650/926-3056
Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA
94025
===============================================================================
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4 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing -
Hanny Budnick -
John Sweeney -
Martha Edwards -
Richard Hart