19 May
2016
19 May
'16
2:09 a.m.
I am a new caller, and I have called two dances. The first, I completely
blew the microphone part. Since then, I practiced holding the mic close to
my mouth like was suggested to me.
The second dnce, I was told that my voice was too deep for the microphone,
and I was overpowering it. It was suggested that I hold the microphone
further away and project, which I tried, but again, not something I
practiced.
Someone afterwards suggested that it could have been dealt with by the
sound board. Although, the sound guy was sitting there and I'm sure would
have done something if it would have helped.
So, any advice? Is there a particular mic or mic type that is good for
deep voices? Any techniques to practice? Sound guy/gal need to be on the
ball?
Any advice welcome.
... Darwin
19 May
19 May
2:41 a.m.
* Lots of low frequency sound gets muddy and makes it hard to hear
what's happening.
* Typical dynamic microphones output extra bass when you're close to
them ("proximity effect")
The standard way to deal with this is to use the mixer's EQ to turn
down the lows. This is something most sound people will do with most
callers, and works pretty well.
I don't think you should hold the mic farther away or switch to a mic
that doesn't have a this proximity effect, since any mixer can easily
compensate. Just check with the sound person to make sure they know
to turn down the lows on your channel. Tell them it's ok if you don't
sound quite like yourself if that's what's needed to make it
intelligible.
Jeff
On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 10:09 PM, Darwin Gregory via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I am a new caller, and I have called two dances. The
first, I completely
blew the microphone part. Since then, I practiced holding the mic close to
my mouth like was suggested to me.
The second dnce, I was told that my voice was too deep for the microphone,
and I was overpowering it. It was suggested that I hold the microphone
further away and project, which I tried, but again, not something I
practiced.
Someone afterwards suggested that it could have been dealt with by the sound
board. Although, the sound guy was sitting there and I'm sure would have
done something if it would have helped.
So, any advice? Is there a particular mic or mic type that is good for deep
voices? Any techniques to practice? Sound guy/gal need to be on the ball?
Any advice welcome.
... Darwin
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
2:44 a.m.
Mic technique is IMHO more important than mic type, I'd concentrate on
being a consistent reasonable distance away from the mic with it pointing
*at* your mouth. Vary pitch rather than volume with your voice to
communicate excitement. I have a naturally deeper voice myself and find
keeping my thumb extended and just touching my chin enables a consistent
sound without having to remember to maintain that constant distance:
http://veino.com/site/media/caller/DonV-Caller-HalfSize.jpg
(yes, there are nicer looking models but I knew where this picture was... :)
The sound person should be able to then adjust the tone controls to match
your voice (probably reducing bass and possibly boosting highs).
On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 10:09 PM, Darwin Gregory via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I am a new caller, and I have called two dances. The
first, I completely
blew the microphone part. Since then, I practiced holding the mic close to
my mouth like was suggested to me.
The second dnce, I was told that my voice was too deep for the microphone,
and I was overpowering it. It was suggested that I hold the microphone
further away and project, which I tried, but again, not something I
practiced.
Someone afterwards suggested that it could have been dealt with by the
sound board. Although, the sound guy was sitting there and I'm sure would
have done something if it would have helped.
So, any advice? Is there a particular mic or mic type that is good for
deep voices? Any techniques to practice? Sound guy/gal need to be on the
ball?
Any advice welcome.
... Darwin
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
3:04 a.m.
Sorry, forgot a restriction I have on my server re: images loading. Try
this link, the photo is at the top of the content.
http://veino.com/caller/
On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 10:44 PM, Don Veino <sharedweight_net(a)veino.com>
wrote:
Mic technique is IMHO more important than mic type,
I'd concentrate on
being a consistent reasonable distance away from the mic with it pointing
*at* your mouth. Vary pitch rather than volume with your voice to
communicate excitement. I have a naturally deeper voice myself and find
keeping my thumb extended and just touching my chin enables a consistent
sound without having to remember to maintain that constant distance:
http://veino.com/site/media/caller/DonV-Caller-HalfSize.jpg
(yes, there are nicer looking models but I knew where this picture was...
:)
The sound person should be able to then adjust the tone controls to match
your voice (probably reducing bass and possibly boosting highs).
On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 10:09 PM, Darwin Gregory via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I am a new caller, and I have called two dances.
The first, I completely
blew the microphone part. Since then, I practiced holding the mic close to
my mouth like was suggested to me.
The second dnce, I was told that my voice was too deep for the
microphone, and I was overpowering it. It was suggested that I hold the
microphone further away and project, which I tried, but again, not
something I practiced.
Someone afterwards suggested that it could have been dealt with by the
sound board. Although, the sound guy was sitting there and I'm sure would
have done something if it would have helped.
So, any advice? Is there a particular mic or mic type that is good for
deep voices? Any techniques to practice? Sound guy/gal need to be on the
ball?
Any advice welcome.
... Darwin
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
5:23 a.m.
On Wed, May 18, 2016, Don Veino via Callers wrote:
Mic technique is IMHO more important than mic type, I'd concentrate on
being a consistent reasonable distance away from the mic with it pointing
*at* your mouth. Vary pitch rather than volume with your voice to
communicate excitement. I have a naturally deeper voice myself and find
keeping my thumb extended and just touching my chin enables a consistent
sound without having to remember to maintain that constant distance:
One thing I notice many callers doing is holding the mic vertically;
holding the mic horizontally in front of your mouth almost always works
better. (Holding the mic vertically used to be reasonable advice to
avoid pops, but modern mics deal fine with that, and getting the better
signal propagation from a horizontal mic makes more sense.)
--
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/
<*> <*> <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
5:39 p.m.
On 2016-05-18 1909, Darwin Gregory via Callers wrote:
I am a new caller, and I have called two dances. The
first, I
completely blew the microphone part. Since then, I practiced holding the
mic close to my mouth like was suggested to me.
The second dnce, I was told that my voice was too deep for the
microphone, and I was overpowering it. It was suggested that I hold the
microphone further away and project, which I tried, but again, not
something I practiced.
Someone afterwards suggested that it could have been dealt with by the
sound board. Although, the sound guy was sitting there and I'm sure
would have done something if it would have helped.
So, any advice? Is there a particular mic or mic type that is good for
deep voices? Any techniques to practice? Sound guy/gal need to be on
the ball?
Any advice welcome.
... Darwin
Hullo Darwin,
Congratulations. Getting out there is the difficult bit. Then it's kind
of, "let the learning begin."
Deep voice is generally a description of frequency. It does not equate
with volume.
Pitching, as mentioned, is working in another frequency range, typically
up or higher. This is quite different from projecting as it appears
someone at the dance has suggested. Projecting is generally about volume.
Unless they're a caller or singer with lots of experience, or a sound
person or equivalent, be cautious of taking all feedback as something
one must deal with. Not all feedback is a useful "truth".
Both volume (gain) and frequency may be controlled by those in charge of
the sound board. Often the Too Loud or Too Quiet (clarity) issues are
dealt with through equalisation, the adjustment of frequencies.
On arrival at a gig I tell those doing sound that I'm a baritone and
without a monitor I'll leave it with them to let me sound both
human/normal/like me and to clearly get some useful upper frequencies
through the mix/balance. This is where much of the information content
is in western languages.
Feedback about sound, like everything else, may be tough to deal with
socially. Callers are so often at the focus of feedback, requests,
information holders, etc. Add a desire to help and we can try to do too
much. If one can't (re)direct suggestions from the audience to the sound
folks, take them a bit of it. However let it go too.
I generally agree with Jeff, Don and Aahz. Steady distance, steady
volume range, good orientation of the mic (speaking at it along the
longitudinal axis, not the "ice cream cone" hold) will set one up for a
state the sound folks can work with.
Folks with low voices sometimes get used to rumbling along. We can do a
bit to help out the situation. Like any dance caller good word choice
and pace help. One may be able to find another frequency range, however
one needn't over-compensate. That can hurt! However a bit of practise
using an upper register can make it more interesting, add some colour.
(Stories: 1. A crappy "shortwave" radio on a ship I worked in required
one pitch one's voice up an octave to get any attention at the receiving
station. 2. A regional calling colleague found himself in the range of a
musical instrument and seemed to be getting lost in the mix. He's tried
adjusting where he speaks to get away or separate himself from it.)
--
If you wish to talk gear and technique (either mic or sound board) ask
the friendly folks on the Contra Sound Forum.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/contrasf/info
--
A fine sound resource is a book by Bob Mills, called All Mixed Up. It's
available in paper form via CDSS and is also on-line.
It's on-line now at http://bobmills.org/amu/
see http://bobmills.org/amu/microphones.shtml
"A Guide to Sound Production for Folk and Dance Music
Basics for Beginners - Exotica for the Experienced"
--
Colin has a good bit on his site:
http://colinhume.com/callers.htm#Microphone
--
In general there are quite a few bits of useful advice one may find from
a search on the topic(s) using one's favourite search engine.
Cheers, John
--
J.D. Erskine
Victoria, BC
6:16 p.m.
On May 19, 2016, at 1:39 PM, JD Erskine via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
On 2016-05-18 1909, Darwin Gregory via Callers wrote:
When I do sound (or teach it to new people) I cite 3 priorities:
1. Can the caller be heard clearly anywhere in the hall?
2. Is the phrase and beat clear?
3. Is the band happy?
Without 1. and 2. dances fall apart and it is particularly bad for beginners - and
frustrated beginners don’t return (which is extremely important for the viability of dance
series).
Sometimes 3. presents a conflict with 1. or 2. that requires some conversation with the
band and figuring out exactly what to do.
As a dancer I sometimes notice a tendency for the band to be too loud - particularly early
in the evening when the hall is less full and there aren’t lots of bodies to absorb the
sound; that can mess up 1.
Mic discipline by the caller is really important and some callers are excellent - having a
mic in a stand and keeping the same distance all the time. A wind screen helps.
John
I am a new caller, and I have called two dances.
The first, I
completely blew the microphone part. Since then, I practiced holding the
mic close to my mouth like was suggested to me.
The second dnce, I was told that my voice was too deep for the
microphone, and I was overpowering it. It was suggested that I hold the
microphone further away and project, which I tried, but again, not
something I practiced.
Someone afterwards suggested that it could have been dealt with by the
sound board. Although, the sound guy was sitting there and I'm sure
would have done something if it would have helped.
So, any advice? Is there a particular mic or mic type that is good for
deep voices? Any techniques to practice? Sound guy/gal need to be on
the ball?
Any advice welcome.
... Darwin
8:02 p.m.
Darwin,
Here are a few thoughts:
Besides working on mic technique, pay attention to enunciation.
Somecallerstendtoruntheirwordstogetheranditmakesthemimeanthecallerswellactuallyboththewordsandthcallerswhosaythosewordshardtounderstand.
I'm not saying that you should hyper-enunciate to the point of
sounding stilted, but if you want to be understood in spite of
room reverberation and competing sounds (crowd noise, music,
electric fans) a little hyper-enunciation can help.
One way to check yourself on enunciation (and more) is to make
a recording from the back of the hall and force yourself to
listen to it.
If you're a guest caller at someone else's dance, politely let
the sound tech know that your voice may be different from the
main caller's, and ask for whatever help (s)he can give to make
sure you're intelligible.
Try to arrive early at the gig so that you and the sound tech
can have a few minutes to experiment with what equalization
and what mic position work best for you (e.g., what's not too
close, but not too far), at a time when dancers aren't waiting
for a walk-thru to start.
If you don't 100% trust the sound tech to give ample priority
to caller intelligibility--and maybe even if you do--enlist a
trusted friend who can offer feedback during your sound check
and who can call problems to your attention while there's time
to do something about them, instead of after the dance is over.
I agree with those who have recommended speaking along the axis
of the mic. While there are people who have learned to get good
results with the ice-cream-cone style of mic hold, it's easier
for most of us if we point our mouth at the mic and point the
mic at our mouth. Keep the mic fairly close, but not to the
point of "eating" it.
As for overpowering the mic, I doubt that you would actually
be speaking loudly enough to force the mic element to the
extremes of its travel. It is possible that the first stage of
amplification (usually controlled, on analog mixers, by a knob
at the top of your mic channel labeled "sensitivity", "gain",
or "trim") could be set too high, resulting in clipping, which
could make you sound loud, horrible, and unintelligible all at
once. A competent sound tech will know how to set the gain
structure to avoid this. If the sound tech is a turf-conscious
clown, then you have a problem, but you won't solve it by trying
to offer advice based on stuff you read on an internet mailing
list while you yourself are inexpert.
You wrote:
... the sound guy was sitting there and I'm sure
would have done something ...
If the sound board is near the stage, the sound tech can easily
be unaware of a problem until (s)he stands up and walks to the
middle or the back of the hall. Assuming the sound tech isn't
a turf-conscious clown, a request to "please check that I'm
intelligible in the back of the hall" can be part of the same
kind of polite conversation as "my voice may be different from
the main caller ...".
Good luck.
--Jim
On May 18, 2016, at 7:09 PM, Darwin Gregory via
Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I am a new caller, and I have called two dances. The first, I completely blew the
microphone part. Since then, I practiced holding the mic close to my mouth like was
suggested to me.
The second dnce, I was told that my voice was too deep for the microphone, and I was
overpowering it. It was suggested that I hold the microphone further away and project,
which I tried, but again, not something I practiced.
Someone afterwards suggested that it could have been dealt with by the sound board.
Although, the sound guy was sitting there and I'm sure would have done something if it
would have helped.
So, any advice? Is there a particular mic or mic type that is good for deep voices? Any
techniques to practice? Sound guy/gal need to be on the ball?
Any advice welcome.
... Darwin
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
6 Jun
6 Jun
5 p.m.
I run sound and am also a caller. I have definitely had folks for whom the
proximity effect emphasizes particular frequencies in their voice and makes
it much more difficult to eq from the sound board. As both a sound operator
and caller, I definitely value intelligibility over strict reproduction of
the voice -- I would much rather intelligibly not sound like myself, rather
than to sound just like my normal voice but not cut through the crowd and
band sound. Proximity effect (the emphasizing of lower frequencies when
holding the mic extremely close to your mouth) causes more trouble with
some voices than with others. I have had a few callers who when they are
right on top of the mic become almost unintelligible, but if they back off
just an inch or so, are improved markedly and get a much more consistent
sound. Because it is more consistent, it is also easier for the sound tech
to eq your voice.
Using a monitor can also be a big help because it gives you a better idea
for how your voice is coming through the system.
Jack
Be aware of how quickly you're talking. Record yourself (and listen to it,
even when it's painful). Can you understand yourself clearly?
On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 4:03 PM James Saxe via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Darwin,
Here are a few thoughts:
Besides working on mic technique, pay attention to enunciation.
Somecallerstendtoruntheirwordstogetheranditmakesthemimeanthecallerswellactuallyboththewordsandthcallerswhosaythosewordshardtounderstand.
I'm not saying that you should hyper-enunciate to the point of
sounding stilted, but if you want to be understood in spite of
room reverberation and competing sounds (crowd noise, music,
electric fans) a little hyper-enunciation can help.
One way to check yourself on enunciation (and more) is to make
a recording from the back of the hall and force yourself to
listen to it.
If you're a guest caller at someone else's dance, politely let
the sound tech know that your voice may be different from the
main caller's, and ask for whatever help (s)he can give to make
sure you're intelligible.
Try to arrive early at the gig so that you and the sound tech
can have a few minutes to experiment with what equalization
and what mic position work best for you (e.g., what's not too
close, but not too far), at a time when dancers aren't waiting
for a walk-thru to start.
If you don't 100% trust the sound tech to give ample priority
to caller intelligibility--and maybe even if you do--enlist a
trusted friend who can offer feedback during your sound check
and who can call problems to your attention while there's time
to do something about them, instead of after the dance is over.
I agree with those who have recommended speaking along the axis
of the mic. While there are people who have learned to get good
results with the ice-cream-cone style of mic hold, it's easier
for most of us if we point our mouth at the mic and point the
mic at our mouth. Keep the mic fairly close, but not to the
point of "eating" it.
As for overpowering the mic, I doubt that you would actually
be speaking loudly enough to force the mic element to the
extremes of its travel. It is possible that the first stage of
amplification (usually controlled, on analog mixers, by a knob
at the top of your mic channel labeled "sensitivity", "gain",
or "trim") could be set too high, resulting in clipping, which
could make you sound loud, horrible, and unintelligible all at
once. A competent sound tech will know how to set the gain
structure to avoid this. If the sound tech is a turf-conscious
clown, then you have a problem, but you won't solve it by trying
to offer advice based on stuff you read on an internet mailing
list while you yourself are inexpert.
You wrote:
--
Jack Mitchell
Durham, NC
... the sound guy was sitting there and I'm
sure would have done
something ...
If the sound board is near the stage, the sound tech can easily
be unaware of a problem until (s)he stands up and walks to the
middle or the back of the hall. Assuming the sound tech isn't
a turf-conscious clown, a request to "please check that I'm
intelligible in the back of the hall" can be part of the same
kind of polite conversation as "my voice may be different from
the main caller ...".
Good luck.
--Jim
On May 18, 2016, at 7:09 PM, Darwin Gregory via
Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I am a new caller, and I have called two dances. The first, I
completely blew the
microphone part. Since then, I practiced holding the
mic close to my mouth like was suggested to me.
The second dnce, I was told that my voice was too deep for the
microphone, and I
was overpowering it. It was suggested that I hold the
microphone further away and project, which I tried, but again, not
something I practiced.
Someone afterwards suggested that it could have been dealt with by the
sound
board. Although, the sound guy was sitting there and I'm sure would
have done something if it would have helped.
So, any advice? Is there a particular mic or mic type that is good for
deep
voices? Any techniques to practice? Sound guy/gal need to be on the
ball?
Any advice welcome.
... Darwin
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
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days old
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8 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
Aahz via Callers -
Darwin Gregory via Callers
-
Don Veino via Callers
-
Jack Mitchell via Callers
-
James Saxe via Callers
-
JD Erskine via Callers
-
Jeff Kaufman via Callers
-
John W Gintell via Callers