People are not things. I don’t think it’s appropriate for any crowd. Try your hand at some new lyrics! Sent from my iPhone

I've started doing singing squares over the past year and have been making adjustments to lyrics for each one I do. So far the changes have been relatively easy - mostly eliminating explicit gender and talking to everyone whenever possible vs. a "talk to the (assumed) lead" focus. There are real challenges for me in some popular ones - for example, despite the fun of the sequence, Smoke on the Water's https://squaredancehistory.org/items/show/1383 refrain's primary phrase essentially amounts to "we'll kill 'em all" - as it's taken from a 1944 WWII song. I'm personally not ready to call that knowing the meaning and a significant re-wording of the key refrain is not likely to go over well with fans of the dance. On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 1:39 AM, Alexandra Deis-Lauby via Callers < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote:

If I recall the folk song, it's more satirical--she can bake a cherry pie and stuff, and turns out to be older than Billy lets on. See if you can't find lines in one of the versions that shift the focus. Bob On 3/25/2018 02:07, Don Veino via Callers wrote:

Rich, I agree with Tom. This is one of the most traditional tunes I grew up with. Isn't one of CDSS' objectives to promote and continue TRADITIONAL song... I say leave it alone. Mary On Sun, Mar 25, 2018, 1:12 AM Rich Sbardella via Callers < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote:

It looks like this is the version Rich is referring to: http://www.ceder.net/recorddb/viewsingle.php?RecordId=1891 More background on the English folk song / sea shanty this American folk song is based on: https://mainlynorfolk.info/martin.carthy/songs/billyboy.html In traditional songs things don't really have to work logically - for example, in this song, there's the lyric, "She's as tall as any pine, And as straight as a pumpkin vine." So the last verse of the song goes, "How old may she be, Billy Boy, Billy Boy? How old may she be, Charming Billy? Three times six and four times seven, Twenty eight and eleven, She's a young thing, And cannot leave her mother." This, despite the questionable math, puts the refrain into a very ironic context. My understanding of square dance singing calls is that many of them were set to popular music of the time (though I have no idea about this particular one). So if your audience was expected to know this song and the context behind the refrain, that would be one thing. Notably, though, the square dance-edited version is missing this context, and it adds the line "Promenade this pretty thing, won't you help me to sing" to the refrain, "She's a young thing, And cannot leave her mother"! So it'd be quite something else to hear this line on its own, which makes it sound like you should be promenading with your underage partners/corners. There's no universal answer to "is this acceptable" because it depends on your "contra dance crowd" who is doing the accepting - this can vary widely between dances, even within the same city. You'll have to figure out if the dancers are ok with it as is, might be ok with it if you give them some background about the song before you do the walkthrough, or would not be ok even with that. However, I think you'll find a lot of other material is less objectionable to any audience (and you already have some intuition for this, since you asked the callers list about this one). Yoyo Zhou On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 9:40 AM, Darwin Gregory via Callers < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote:

Often people don’t speak up. It doesn’t mean they like the language. There aren’t very many dances that actively solicit feedback and even the ones that do don’t get it all the time. There are often callers or phrases that bother me. I very occasionally tell the callers if they are friends of mine or the organizers if I know them. Otherwise, I just avoid those dances and callers. Sent from my iPhone

I feel that the old dances, like old movies, shouldn’t be left in the dust because they are offensive in our modern context. Rather we can take them in their context, as a relic of an older day. I happen to LOVE the song Billy Boy, it was on a movie I saw as a child and was one of the few pieces of folk music I was exposed to as a child growing up in suburbia. “She’s a young thing” sounds endearing to me, though of course dated and somewhat archaic. It also just happens to be the way people talked them. We as callers can perhaps help moderate this, with an introduction that puts the dance in a context for the dancers where it is less offensive and more what in classical music is called a “period piece”- that is, a work that is performed with an understanding by all that it is a dated, but valuable piece of art that we can keep alive. My caution is to not throw the baby out with the bath water, whatever folks decide. Happy dancing! Cara

I'm going to be controversial, so please think hard about what I'm saying - and why you're reacting to it the way you are - before replying. I think "Political correctness" is mainly an American problem, though it seems to be spreading to England too. The word "nigger" was not originally a pejorative term, just a description - it's the Latin word for "black" with the "g" doubled. Since then it has become "black", "negro", "coloured", "of colour" and "African-American" (not much use in England, that last one), and possibly others that I don't know about. But this "political correctness" is treating the symptom, not the disease. If we look down on black people, or women, or homosexuals, or gypsies, or people with mental or physical disabilities, then any word we choose to label them with eventually comes to mean "those people we look down on", and has to be replaced by another euphemism. It wouldn't surprise me if in a few years' time the word "gay" was seen as "inappropriate" (a word I hate as much as "politically correct") and had to be replaced by another term. And different people like to refer to themselves in different ways. Some women in the USA object to being called "ladies". But some ladies in England object to being called "women"! Similarly some gypsies like being called "gypsies", and I'm guessing that they would object to the word "travellers" because that would include people who chose to follow a travelling way of life but were not real gypsies. So I'm with Tom Hinds - always be respectful, not intentionally disrespectful. Colin Hume Email colin(a)colinhume.com Web site http://colinhume.com

And here lies the minefield, a caller is never sure who in the audience will object, or what they will object to. And organizers rarely give a clear indication of what their vision is...so the callers take the heat. As callers we're d@mned if we do and d@mned if we don't Call a square (or other dance formation) or don't say gypsy or don't say men, women, he or she... or don't Social media is a very powerful tool and can be used for good and evil depending on which side you are on. It can be used to impact elections of major countries and impact our views of contra dancing terms. When I started dancing in the 80's it was the height of the Nicaraguan war and the Contras were the right wing rebels (supported and funded by the USA) fighting against the left wing socialist government. When I told people I contra danced I often got unusual looks and had to explain what it was. I wonder if there had been FB at the time would there have been a movement to change the name? The pendulum sways... In the 80's when I started dancing, Contra dancers used to Norwegian polka to the sound check, then dance DI contras, squares (2), circle mixers, , hambo/schottische, waltz and occasionally DI proper/triplet/triple minor dances, and a few callers were starting to use "Men and Women" rather than "Gents and Ladies" reflective of the feminist movement. (And yes, I personally enjoyed the DI contras the best) Fast forward to 2018 and most callers are using "Gents and Ladies" again (many dancers cringe at "Men and Women" and some are advocating for gender-free terms), most dance communities stopped doing a circle mixer and many stopped doing squares. AND most dancers can't dance a hambo or schottische and have no idea what a triplet or triple minor dance is unless they go to NEFFA or other large inclusive festival or dance ECD. Singing and patter squares are caught in this as the lyrics/patter are reflective of the words/lyrics used in the 40's, 50's (and sometimes you just use a word that rhymes). As Rich found out the 70-80 year olds love the lyrics (from their youth) and the millennials do not. I find that folks these days are very intolerant if things don't go their way...whichever way that is. And our dance traditions (and callers) are caught in the middle. BTW: I MWS in an LGBTQ group and we use "boys and girls" and no one cares and almost everyone switches...such a delight! Donna Hunt -----Original Message----- From: Rich Sbardella via Callers &lt;callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; To: Bob Hofkin &lt;bhofkin(a)middlej.com&gt; Cc: Caller's discussion list &lt;callers(a)sharedweight.net&gt; Sent: Sun, Mar 25, 2018 11:15 am Subject: Re: [Callers] Politically Correct? Yes Bob, You are correct, but the tag line for each verse remains the same. I would have to find a word to replace -young "thing". I think perhaps it is a generational thing. I have been calling this song to my seniors who are about 75% women in their 70's and 80s and they sing along. No objections. In fact many remember it as a child. There are certainly some contra venues where I would expect a similar response, but others that would cringe. "Such a sweet young thing" used to be a term of endearment for Ladies and Gents, but times change. In MWSD, boys and girls are the default role terms, and I called MWSD for 25 years. However, I remember accidentally using the term girls in a square for a contra community a few years back, and immediately after the square, I had a dancer approach me and voice her concerns. This is one of the reasons I posed the original question. Peace, Rich

OK, I have to chime in here. I'm definitely on the side of "honoring tradition" (within reason), because if we don't, all of traditional music and dance starts to become this homogeneous blob... The tradition is much richer than that! It's not just traditional singing square dance calls, but (maybe even more) applies to traditional songs as well and I'm going to give some license to the term "traditional" here!).. At Maine Fiddle Camp there is singing going on pretty much ALL the time. Singing around the camp fire at night is a tradition which has been going on for as long as Camp has been in existence. Songs from many traditions, always unaccompanied, and always in multi-part harmony. It's a beautiful thing to be a part of. Last year (or was it the year before) someone started the song "Old Molasses Rum", composed by the late Tom Rowe (a dear departed friend) who was the bass player (and bass voice) in Schooner Fare. The words to the whole song are attached as a PDF file because that's the only way I have them. The "problem" is with third and fourth words believe it or not.. When this song was started at the campfire, a young woman was SO upset at the term "African man" that we had to stop the song and go on to something else. This caused a LOT of stress and I think it colored the campfire sings for the rest of the week at Camp. The young woman's take on this all was that only a person of African descent had the right to sing a song with those words in it.. I personally disagree. Read the lyrics and decide for yourself. We did have a "discussion" about this later but I don't think there was any *clear* outcome. I'll digress here a little into the realm of pop music. There are a million examples here, but just take the Beach Boys "California Girls".. whew.. Nothing blatant there but these days some would be offended JUST by the fact that women were being called "girls", when you actually listen to the lyrics I'm sure many would have lots of issues.. .. BUT the Beach Boys pretty much revolutionized the use of harmony in pop or maybe all music at that time and while you could argue that people had problems with the lyrics at that time and didn't say anything, still the songs hit the top of the charts and the harmonies were chillingly wonderful.. So what do we do here? Abandon singing or even listening to all old music and,, then what? Lately there is an effort on certain fronts to "change history" but I don't want to do it with traditional music and dance. The richness of the tradition is what makes it so powerful. I often call a 300 year old contra dance and tell the dancers we've been doing this continually for OVER 300 years and that they are part of a continuing tradition the likes of which are rarely found on this continent (and I recognize native American traditions as an exception to what I am saying!!) I agree with Tom and some of the others.. "Yes always be respectful, not intentionally disrespectful." nuf said - bill ________________________________ From: Callers &lt;callers-bounces(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; on behalf of Donna Hunt via Callers &lt;callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; Sent: Monday, March 26, 2018 2:06 PM To: richsbardella(a)gmail.com Cc: callers(a)sharedweight.net Subject: Re: [Callers] Politically Correct? And here lies the minefield, a caller is never sure who in the audience will object, or what they will object to. And organizers rarely give a clear indication of what their vision is...so the callers take the heat. As callers we're d@mned if we do and d@mned if we don't Call a square (or other dance formation) or don't say gypsy or don't say men, women, he or she... or don't Social media is a very powerful tool and can be used for good and evil depending on which side you are on. It can be used to impact elections of major countries and impact our views of contra dancing terms. When I started dancing in the 80's it was the height of the Nicaraguan war and the Contras were the right wing rebels (supported and funded by the USA) fighting against the left wing socialist government. When I told people I contra danced I often got unusual looks and had to explain what it was. I wonder if there had been FB at the time would there have been a movement to change the name? The pendulum sways... In the 80's when I started dancing, Contra dancers used to Norwegian polka to the sound check, then dance DI contras, squares (2), circle mixers, , hambo/schottische, waltz and occasionally DI proper/triplet/triple minor dances, and a few callers were starting to use "Men and Women" rather than "Gents and Ladies" reflective of the feminist movement. (And yes, I personally enjoyed the DI contras the best) Fast forward to 2018 and most callers are using "Gents and Ladies" again (many dancers cringe at "Men and Women" and some are advocating for gender-free terms), most dance communities stopped doing a circle mixer and many stopped doing squares. AND most dancers can't dance a hambo or schottische and have no idea what a triplet or triple minor dance is unless they go to NEFFA or other large inclusive festival or dance ECD. Singing and patter squares are caught in this as the lyrics/patter are reflective of the words/lyrics used in the 40's, 50's (and sometimes you just use a word that rhymes). As Rich found out the 70-80 year olds love the lyrics (from their youth) and the millennials do not. I find that folks these days are very intolerant if things don't go their way...whichever way that is. And our dance traditions (and callers) are caught in the middle. BTW: I MWS in an LGBTQ group and we use "boys and girls" and no one cares and almost everyone switches...such a delight! Donna Hunt -----Original Message----- From: Rich Sbardella via Callers &lt;callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; To: Bob Hofkin &lt;bhofkin(a)middlej.com&gt; Cc: Caller's discussion list &lt;callers(a)sharedweight.net&gt; Sent: Sun, Mar 25, 2018 11:15 am Subject: Re: [Callers] Politically Correct? Yes Bob, You are correct, but the tag line for each verse remains the same. I would have to find a word to replace -young "thing". I think perhaps it is a generational thing. I have been calling this song to my seniors who are about 75% women in their 70's and 80s and they sing along. No objections. In fact many remember it as a child. There are certainly some contra venues where I would expect a similar response, but others that would cringe. "Such a sweet young thing" used to be a term of endearment for Ladies and Gents, but times change. In MWSD, boys and girls are the default role terms, and I called MWSD for 25 years. However, I remember accidentally using the term girls in a square for a contra community a few years back, and immediately after the square, I had a dancer approach me and voice her concerns. This is one of the reasons I posed the original question. Peace, Rich

An important thing to remember is that sometimes *you just can't please everyone* no matter what you do. That applies not only to issues that some would characterize as being about "political correctness" (singing call lyrics; the "g-word"; gendered vs. gender-free names for dance roles), but to many, many other decisions about dance calling, dance organization, and life in general. Some of our recent discussion have made me recall an old fable of which I offer here one version (from the March 29, 1753, number of the British weekly, _The World_, as quoted at https://books.google.com/books?id=L3YPAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA78 ): An old man and a little boy were driving an ass to the next market to sell. What a fool is this fellow (says a man upon the road) to be trudging it on foot with his son, that his ass may go light! The old man, hearing this, sat his boy upon the ass, and went whistling by the side of him. Why, sirrah! (cries a second man to the boy) is it fit for you to be riding, while your poor old father is walking on foot? The father, upon this rebuke, took down his boy from the ass, and mounted himself. Do you see (says a third) how the lazy old knave rides along, upon his beast, while his poor little boy is almost crippled with walking? The old man no sooner heard this, than he took up his son behind him. Pray, honest friend (says a fourth) is that ass your own? Yes, says the old man. One would not have thought so, replied the other, by your loading him so unmercifully. You and your son are better able to carry the poor beast than he you. Any thing to please, says the owner; and alighting with his son, they tied the legs of the ass together, and by the help of a pole endeavoured to carry him upon their shoulders over the bridge that led to the town. This was so entertaining a sight that the people ran in crowds to laugh at it; till the ass, conceiving a dislike to the over-complaisance of his master, burst asunder the cords that tied him, slipt from the pole, and tumbled into the river. The poor old man made the best of his way home, ashamed and vexed that, by endeavouring to please everybody, he had pleased nobody, and lost his ass into the bargain. Regarding Rich's question about "Billy Boy", Frannie wrote: I might go further and change tag line to something like She is young and she cannot leave her mother lest someone object to the word "girl." Drawing an analogy to the fable above, I think this sort of change is in the realm of deciding who should walk and who, if anyone, should ride. Your own modern sensibilities may suggest a departure from past practice. Or if you think there's more than one reasonable course of action (though perhaps no perfect one), then you might feel little inconvenience in acceding to the most common (or the most loudly asserted) preference of others, even it's not your own first choice. But now what if somebody objects to the word "young" because it implies the protagonist in the song is courting an underage child? Or what if someone knows the ending of the original song (where the woman sung of turns out to be far from young) and complains that it is ageist? Or what if someone finds the gendered pronouns "she" and "her" to be unacceptable in any context? There comes a point--and obviously not everyone will agree where that point is--when either you can go looking for a length of cord and a pole or you can decide that it's time to say No. --Jim