" I suggest that you do some research into the countless number of times that "progressive" people have screwed over minorities who weren't in their own demographic."Inapplicable analogy.   By"screwing" you mean political or economic discrimination.   Contra dancers are not of any particular demographic. and are not "screwing" people not in their own demographic. Please re-read the messages pointing out that in Europe, particularly, "gypsy" still definitely gets used as a hateful slur. The connotations of words vary from country to country.   Without more information about the extent to which and in what nations/regions "gypsy" has serious negative connotations,  Judgment should be withheld based on undocumented  comments in this thread.     Quite a few callers form our side of the Atlantic have called in Europe.    We have not input from them about how or if the dance figure we call gypsy has been handled. This discussion may leave all our dance gypsies nameless Michael Fuerst      802 N Broadway      Urbana IL 61801      217 239 5844 On Thursday, October 29, 2015 8:51 AM, Aahz Maruch via Callers &lt;callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote: On Wed, Oct 28, 2015, Michael Fuerst via Callers wrote: <belly laugh>  Your suggestion that progressive people promoting political correctness always stick to their progressive principles is risible.  I suggest that you do some research into the countless number of times that "progressive" people have screwed over minorities who weren't in their own demographic. To save you a bit of time, here's one specific example that consumed large amounts of time and emotional energy in one of my other social groups: http://fanlore.org/wiki/RaceFail_%2709 Please re-read the messages pointing out that in Europe, particularly, "gypsy" still definitely gets used as a hateful slur.  And I don't know enough about *ALL* of American culture to presume that "gypsy" isn't used that way here in significant subcultures.  Certainly "gyp" (as a verb) does get used. -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                        http://rule6.info/                       <*>          <*>          <*> Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

I am a free speech kind of guy and about as progressive as they come. Political correctness is a loaded term that I avoid at almost all costs. There is no constitutional provision to claim a right to not be offended. Neither should there be one. The world and life are just to complex and complicated for that. Having said that, I'll add that it is wise to remember that it is better to be nice than it is to be not nice; it is better to encourage people to be nice rather than not nice; it is better to create and enhance an environment where people will want to be nice and not be not nice. That's human kindness, thoughtfulness and making the world better, not politics or language manipulation. The discussion has been interesting and, for me, profitable, so I'll leave it with this. I will continue to use the "g" word as necessary while at the same time endeavoring to find good workable (for me and others) alternatives. I will continue to use "allemande" until such time as I may have to change, I prefer it to "turn," which in dancing can have a whole different and therefore confusing meaning. I liked the reference to "gents and ladies" being class-based terms. They are and, as someone who has spoken out upon hearing someone say, "He is a classy person" or "she did that with class" I have thought long and hard about the usage in contra dancing. Still I prefer them to "men and women" which for me is clumsy and on the dance floor sound very similar. While I use active and inactive on my dance cards, I rarely use them when instructing or calling, I find them even clumsier. Lead and follow are also rarely functional. So until I find something better, "Gents and ladies" it is. The terms are indeed class-based, but other words are religion-based, or ethnic-discrimination-based, even ageism-based and sexism-based. Language is kind of that way. And English is confusing and cluttered enough without making more rules. Clarity appears to me to be all important. For that matter, the same thing applies to numbering couples of neighbors #1, 2, 3, etc. They can be problematic and vaguely imply status, but for the moment they're what I've got. If you want to get into it even proper and improper can have issues. In the mean time, I'd rather dance than call -- at least until the body gives out -- so much of this is just theory for me. Lets keep working on it and discussing it as friends Thanks, George Mercer On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 9:51 AM, Aahz Maruch via Callers < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote: