Generally, I expect to call 9-12 dances in a regular evening contra/community dance venue. With 10-11 being the greatest majority of the gigs. I usually prepare a program with 10-11 dances, but of course once the evening begins, things can change, sometimes quite radically. The length of each dance -- really depends on the choreography of that dance and the crowd and the music and the time of night (and a few other judgements as well). The first and second dances can be slightly longer than normal to reinforce the moves and help get newcomers adjusted to the progression and responding to the calls. Or they can be shorter than normal to accommodate the flow of new folks as they walk into the hall. And then there is the music, which I consider greatly as part of my judgements. If a band is in a groove, I'll want to continue their flow and thus continue the dance for a couple of extra times. Also, the common use of three tunes (rather than two or one) for a dance makes it a real judgement call, since sometimes a band may play the first tune longer than normal, so my choice is to cut off the third tune earlier than the band may like or allow the dance to go a bit longer. Of course, that also depends on a lot, including the actually tune being played and what the band is doing with it and the nature of the dancers. Conversely, if an old-time band plays one tune for each dance, I'll usually make those dances a bit shorter, especially for a firm contra crowd where the dancers may get bored with one tune that has no changes in texture or modulation. Woody ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On 4/26/2015 9:31 PM, Jack Mitchell via Callers wrote:

When I was learning to call, I was taught to do about 15 times through the dance (maybe 13, maybe 17). I like Victor's suggestion of 8 minutes for the dance, 2 for walkthrough, and 2 for dancers to line up and chat before the walkthrough starts. Including break and waltzes, in a three hour dance, you should easily fit 12 dances in with that in mind. At my local 3-hour dance, we do a 15-minute break, and each waltz lasts 5 minutes (if that). That leaves 155 minutes for a caller to run her dance, and that's plenty of time if you actually run the dances for 8 minutes (you've got 11 minutes to spare using Victor's calculations, which is enough time for unexpected things like longer walkthroughs, a hambo after the break, etc). In my experience as a dancer, though, callers wildly underestimate how long they are running the dances (and walkthroughs). We rarely get 12 dances in a night at my local venue; usually 10 or 11. This could be because I usually dance in a very long hall, where it is not possible to call dances such that dancers go all the way through the line then halfway back (as Jack suggests) without running dances very, very long. But I also think there's a bias in callers toward thinking they have run a dance shorter than they actually have. I have very rarely thought a dance ended prematurely, but I often find that dances run long and get boring, especially after 20 or more times through (which is frequent at my venue, though when I talk to them, callers generally don't realize that they've run dances through that many times). My advice is, don't pick a time to run the dances. Pick a number of times through, and do not vary that number significantly based on the size of the hall. Running a dance through 17 times at a bigger hall is fine, but running it through such that every dancer dances with each couple in the set is ridiculous when you're in a hall (like my local hall) that can fit 30 or 40 couples in a line (not exaggerating, I've seen it there). If you decide on a number of times through and actually count, you can stick to that pretty well, but if you decide a running time, it is much more difficult to stay on track of the time and warn the band three times before you want to end, etc. -Dave -- David Casserly (cell) 781 258-2761

Very interesting discussion. One thing I try to pay attention to is the music and whether the band will be playing two-tune or three-tune medleys. If I think the dance will not run for a long time (short hall, time running out, etc.) I’ll let the band know so they can make their changes sooner rather than later. I always feel badly if I have to cut the dance short and the band hasn’t gotten a chance to play the last tune at least four times through. If I have to make an “emergency” stop I always try to apologize to the band for cutting them short. If I lose track of the changes I’ll ask where they are. Ann Fallon Annapolis, Maryland From: Callers [mailto:callers-bounces@lists.sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of Ryan Smith via Callers Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 10:25 AM Cc: callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net Subject: Re: [Callers] Dance length/dances per evening "If you decide on a number of times through and actually count, you can stick to that pretty well, but if you decide a running time, it is much more difficult to stay on track of the time and warn the band three times before you want to end, etc." I couldn't disagree more. I have always used a stopwatch to keep track of how long I'm running the dance, and since one time through the dance is close enough to 30 seconds as to make it not matter, I signal the band 3 more times at whichever B2 is closest to one and a half minutes (usually 6.5 minutes since we started) from my target time (usually 8 minutes). I don't count times through or use marker couples or anything like that because I don't need the distractions. If I were counting, I would definitely have a moment where some couple needed my help and I'd be figuring out what calls would best put them back on the right track and forget whether I was on 5 or 7, and then I'd probably end up running the dance too long thinking I was on 16 times through, when it was really 20. If counting works for you, that's great. For people like me, having a target length is much simpler.

Yeesh. This sounds like a recipe for a difficult evening, unless it's one of those very rare bands where the musicians are really watching what's happening on the floor. Do you have the option of not working with this band in the future? Kalia On 4/27/2015 1:58 PM, Donald Perley via Callers wrote:

There's a band I work with on a pretty regular basis that usually follows my lead, but will occasionally ask "For this set, can we choose when to go out?" I trust them not to run it too long, and letting them choose when they go out gives them a lot of control over the musical experience, which ultimately seems to work well for the dancing experience. I'll sometimes signal a band when they're not ready to go out yet, and I'm usually willing to be negotiated up from 3 more times to 5. More than that, and we're starting to wear out the dancers. I think it's worth mentioning that if you know from the outset that you are going to want to run a dance longer or shorter than your average, for whatever reason, that if you communicate that to the band in advance it will help make sure that you're not cutting them off just as they wind up or leaving them sitting on a tune that they really didn't mean to play that long. I know some bands that like to be signaled when you get to the middle of the dance, and will even ask to be signaled a little early for certain sets of tunes. Part of the reason for using a stopwatch (vs. a timer) is that it doesn't tell you how much longer to run the dance. It just tells you how long you have run the dance, making it easy to be responsive to the music and the dance and the dancers and the weather and all the other environmental factors that come into play. On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 4:58 PM, Donald Perley via Callers < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote:

Many interesting comments, that caused many reactions when reading. -Amy, are those musicians dancers as well? And do any of them also call? Your discussion goal may be to discuss the synergy of the band, caller, and dancers, and where trust is needed. -I have no idea how long any of you have been calling, which can be a big factor in how skilled you are in timing out an evening. I have been calling 10 years. For the first couple years, I watched the top couple go through the line 1 1/2 times. As my cumulative skills as a caller improved, and I moved up the learning spiral, I began asking the band how many tunes they were playing, and learned to keep count of how many times through the band had played. Those two factors are two main points i use in deciding dance length. -Hooray Ann Fallon! You are the only one here who appears to clearly understand how the band is the caller's best friend, and needs to be acknowledged early and often. Show them the dance card (if you haven't already sent them the program), help them understand the mood of the dance if there's something special, and ask them how many tunes they'll be playing for the particular dance. And before a dance evening, I greet the band, and tell them: I prefer the tunes be played around 116-120 bpm; I'll ask how many tunes they usually play for a dance; explain hand signals for speeding up and slowing down; and tell them I'll signal them at halfway through, and then at 3, 2, and 1 time to go. These are the guidelines I use to run a program. -I estimate the crowd size, several times through the evening, especially if there's a lot of coming and going... If there's around 40 dancers or less, I'll run a dance 13 times through. 45-60 dancers, 15 times through. More than 60, 17 or 19, depending on line length of the lines. -When the band tells me how many tunes, I'll often verbally confirm how many times each tune will run. I will also know at what point to give my "halfway" signal. -Exception: if a band gets in a really good groove, I'll let the dance run two extra times through. -Exception: If there's a large percentage of beginners at the start of a dance, I'll run the first 1 or 2 (easy) dances 2 extra times through. -Maximum 3 minutes break between dances. 2 minutes is the goal. Any longer and you are giving control away to the crowd. -Teach the dance 2 times through, 3 minutes or less is the goal. Other notes: -I understand the benefits of the stopwatch, but it takes the band significantly, if not completely, out of the equation. With that method you likely won't do much more than tell them "3 times to go". Again, let the band know through lots of communication that you are partners in the success of the dance. -The number of tunes the band is playing should not affect the dance length. The goal of both band and caller is to bring the dancers maximum joy. You want to give them time to understand the dance, and then melt into it, and the music. In my experience, 13 times through is about the minimum that can do that. -In a temperature-controlled room, let the dancers decide what their stamina level is. Your job is to make a good dance presentation with your musicians. Shortening dances, thus reducing the chance of a band, and the dancers, getting into a groove, doesn't help. A better way to treat a warmer hall is to give an extra minute between dances. This will, through the night, cut out time for one dance. Thanks, everyone! Keith Tuxhorn Austin, TX On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 6:51 PM, Kalia Kliban via Callers < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote: