6 Aug
2011
6 Aug
'11
7:27 p.m.
I applaud Mark for all his efforts to spread contra dancing. But I have to
ask what is the purpose of firedancing/hooping while calling? I would argue
that this is an unnecessary distraction and puts the focus on the caller
instead of on the dancers. Am I supposed to watch this person
firedance/hoop while I am trying to contra dance? I hope that organizers
will ask if this "innovation" is really making the dancing more enjoyable,
or simply for the sake of being "different." My personal opinion is that
the caller should be as invisible as possible - call clearly and get out of
the way of the dancers. There are certainly callers who contribute beyond
the calls such as Beth Molero and Nils Fredland's with their wonderful
singing voices and other callers who may clog or play spoons or some other
contribution to the experience. But firedancing/hooping is a distraction
from the dance, not a contribution to it.
May Burning Man contra grow and thrive for years to come!
JoLaine
--
JoLaine Jones-Pokorney
"We are as gods and might as well get good at it!"
- Stewart Brand
6 Aug
6 Aug
8:37 p.m.
Jolaine is a wonderful caller and I understand what she is saying
but... There are always spectators at dances and at Burning Man
there are also many people walking through the area and fire-dancing
is a dramatic way to draw in that much more attention and therefore
potential new dancers. Secondly there is the thrill of the challenge
for the caller in succeeding in meshing two skills s/he loves.
Finally there is probably going to be a novel thrill for the dancers
who will getting something like that primal feeling of dancing around
a fire - while contradancing. I think there will be plenty of
enjoyment without taking in all the details in a way that would
distract attention from their own dancing. They will go look at the
youtube videos later - and admit it so will you :)
On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 7:27 PM, JoLaine Jones-Pokorney
<jolaine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I applaud Mark for all his efforts to spread contra
dancing. But I have to
ask what is the purpose of firedancing/hooping while calling? I would argue
that this is an unnecessary distraction and puts the focus on the caller
instead of on the dancers. Am I supposed to watch this person
firedance/hoop while I am trying to contra dance? I hope that organizers
will ask if this "innovation" is really making the dancing more enjoyable,
or simply for the sake of being "different." My personal opinion is that
the caller should be as invisible as possible - call clearly and get out of
the way of the dancers. There are certainly callers who contribute beyond
the calls such as Beth Molero and Nils Fredland's with their wonderful
singing voices and other callers who may clog or play spoons or some other
contribution to the experience. But firedancing/hooping is a distraction
from the dance, not a contribution to it.
May Burning Man contra grow and thrive for years to come!
JoLaine
--
JoLaine Jones-Pokorney
"We are as gods and might as well get good at it!"
- Stewart Brand
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
7 Aug
7 Aug
11:09 a.m.
I can understand Jolaine's hesitation. But the "Look at ME!" part of the
caller's ego has always been a factor at contra dances. Like Jolaine I also
feel that the caller should "fade into the background" as soon as possible,
but I recognize that I am in the minority of callers and I am willing to let
others experiment. I also recognize that burning man is a unique venue with
extreme considerations for anyone attempting to call a contra dance there.
If we learn from our mistakes then those organizing the burningman contra
will learn much. I wish I could participate. I have organized four
installations at burningman and I know what an adverse environment it can
be. I have not been back for years now but I know that calling for this
venue would be one of the most difficult calling gigs I can imagine. There
will probably be 20% to more than 50% first-timers in the crowd. Combined
with the problem of many distractions (every potential participant has
about 2,999 other installations they want to see during the evening)--not to
mention the factor of significant numbers of dancers in enhanced mental
states--this gig will require all of the best skills of calling. That
includes careful programming, planning, training the regular contra dancers,
and working with all other parties including the musicians, sound, and light
engineers. It is interesting that these folks are using multiple
communication channels to help integrate the newcomers.
I am most intrigued with the idea put forth by the burner contra folks of
using the lighting to reinforce the calls. Every phrase in the dance (A1,
A2, B1, and B2) could have a different color or effect setting. Using the
lighting as a reinforcement to the calls could be a powerful technique for
such a difficult venue. It will require an extra caller who knows the
lighting system or a lighting technician who knows how to call contras.
This crowd will need every technique the callers and organizers can think of
to sweep in the first-timers.
I will be very interested in hearing how things work out.
- Greg McKenzie
On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 5:37 PM, Mark Stowe <mkstowegnv(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Jolaine is a wonderful caller and I understand what
she is saying
but... There are always spectators at dances and at Burning Man
there are also many people walking through the area and fire-dancing
is a dramatic way to draw in that much more attention and therefore
potential new dancers. Secondly there is the thrill of the challenge
for the caller in succeeding in meshing two skills s/he loves.
Finally there is probably going to be a novel thrill for the dancers
who will getting something like that primal feeling of dancing around
a fire - while contradancing. I think there will be plenty of
enjoyment without taking in all the details in a way that would
distract attention from their own dancing. They will go look at the
youtube videos later - and admit it so will you :)
On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 7:27 PM, JoLaine Jones-Pokorney
<jolaine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I applaud Mark for all his efforts to spread
contra dancing. But I have
to
ask what is the purpose of firedancing/hooping
while calling? I would
argue
that this is an unnecessary distraction and puts
the focus on the caller
instead of on the dancers. Am I supposed to watch this person
firedance/hoop while I am trying to contra dance? I hope that organizers
will ask if this "innovation" is really making the dancing more
enjoyable,
or simply for the sake of being
"different." My personal opinion is that
the caller should be as invisible as possible - call clearly and get out
of
the way of the dancers. There are certainly
callers who contribute
beyond
the calls such as Beth Molero and Nils
Fredland's with their wonderful
singing voices and other callers who may clog or play spoons or some
other
contribution to the experience. But
firedancing/hooping is a distraction
from the dance, not a contribution to it.
May Burning Man contra grow and thrive for years to come!
JoLaine
--
JoLaine Jones-Pokorney
"We are as gods and might as well get good at it!"
- Stewart Brand
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
11:12 a.m.
I've never done techno, but this lighting plan sounds well suited to some of that. So
interesting.
Dorcas Hand
-----Original Message-----
From: callers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net [mailto:callers-bounces@sharedweight.net] On Behalf
Of Greg McKenzie
Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2011 10:09 AM
To: Caller's discussion list
Subject: Re: [Callers] Firedancing/ Hooping while calling and other possible future
Burning Man innovations
I can understand Jolaine's hesitation. But the "Look at ME!" part of the
caller's ego has always been a factor at contra dances. Like Jolaine I also
feel that the caller should "fade into the background" as soon as possible,
but I recognize that I am in the minority of callers and I am willing to let
others experiment. I also recognize that burning man is a unique venue with
extreme considerations for anyone attempting to call a contra dance there.
If we learn from our mistakes then those organizing the burningman contra
will learn much. I wish I could participate. I have organized four
installations at burningman and I know what an adverse environment it can
be. I have not been back for years now but I know that calling for this
venue would be one of the most difficult calling gigs I can imagine. There
will probably be 20% to more than 50% first-timers in the crowd. Combined
with the problem of many distractions (every potential participant has
about 2,999 other installations they want to see during the evening)--not to
mention the factor of significant numbers of dancers in enhanced mental
states--this gig will require all of the best skills of calling. That
includes careful programming, planning, training the regular contra dancers,
and working with all other parties including the musicians, sound, and light
engineers. It is interesting that these folks are using multiple
communication channels to help integrate the newcomers.
I am most intrigued with the idea put forth by the burner contra folks of
using the lighting to reinforce the calls. Every phrase in the dance (A1,
A2, B1, and B2) could have a different color or effect setting. Using the
lighting as a reinforcement to the calls could be a powerful technique for
such a difficult venue. It will require an extra caller who knows the
lighting system or a lighting technician who knows how to call contras.
This crowd will need every technique the callers and organizers can think of
to sweep in the first-timers.
I will be very interested in hearing how things work out.
- Greg McKenzie
On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 5:37 PM, Mark Stowe <mkstowegnv(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Jolaine is a wonderful caller and I understand what
she is saying
but... There are always spectators at dances and at Burning Man
there are also many people walking through the area and fire-dancing
is a dramatic way to draw in that much more attention and therefore
potential new dancers. Secondly there is the thrill of the challenge
for the caller in succeeding in meshing two skills s/he loves.
Finally there is probably going to be a novel thrill for the dancers
who will getting something like that primal feeling of dancing around
a fire - while contradancing. I think there will be plenty of
enjoyment without taking in all the details in a way that would
distract attention from their own dancing. They will go look at the
youtube videos later - and admit it so will you :)
On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 7:27 PM, JoLaine Jones-Pokorney
<jolaine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
I applaud Mark for all his efforts to spread
contra dancing. But I have
to
ask what is the purpose of firedancing/hooping
while calling? I would
argue
that this is an unnecessary distraction and puts
the focus on the caller
instead of on the dancers. Am I supposed to watch this person
firedance/hoop while I am trying to contra dance? I hope that organizers
will ask if this "innovation" is really making the dancing more
enjoyable,
or simply for the sake of being
"different." My personal opinion is that
the caller should be as invisible as possible - call clearly and get out
of
the way of the dancers. There are certainly
callers who contribute
beyond
the calls such as Beth Molero and Nils
Fredland's with their wonderful
singing voices and other callers who may clog or play spoons or some
other
contribution to the experience. But
firedancing/hooping is a distraction
from the dance, not a contribution to it.
May Burning Man contra grow and thrive for years to come!
JoLaine
--
JoLaine Jones-Pokorney
"We are as gods and might as well get good at it!"
- Stewart Brand
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
11:43 a.m.
Impaired dancers was my original main worry. The solution we employed last
year was to have a carpeted area for freeform dancers and friendly signage
and 'fence' so dancers would take a lesson first. Turned out no impaired
dancers - in general the impaired subpopulation which is definitely a
minority is extremely well behaved - much more civilized than any football
game. Enough experienced dancers that ordinarily the callers job would have
been only a little more difficult than a local dance - except for the
turnover in the beginners. You want dances that will hook new dancers in
one dance.
On Aug 7, 2011 11:12 AM, "Dorcas Hand" <handd51(a)tekkmail.com> wrote:
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
I've never done techno, but this lighting plan
sounds well suited to some
of that. So interesting.
Dorcas Hand
-----Original Message-----
From: callers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net [mailto:
callers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net]
On Behalf Of Greg McKenzie
Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2011 10:09 AM
To: Caller's discussion list
Subject: Re: [Callers] Firedancing/ Hooping while calling and other
possible future
Burning Man innovations
I can understand Jolaine's hesitation. But the "Look at ME!" part of the
caller's ego has always been a factor at contra dances. Like Jolaine I
also
feel that the caller should "fade into the
background" as soon as
possible,
but I recognize that I am in the minority of callers
and I am willing to
let
others experiment. I also recognize that burning man
is a unique venue
with
extreme considerations for anyone attempting to call a
contra dance there.
If we learn from our mistakes then those organizing the burningman contra
will learn much. I wish I could participate. I have organized four
installations at burningman and I know what an adverse environment it can
be. I have not been back for years now but I know that calling for this
venue would be one of the most difficult calling gigs I can imagine. There
will probably be 20% to more than 50% first-timers in the crowd. Combined
with the problem of many distractions (every potential participant has
about 2,999 other installations they want to see during the evening)--not
to
mention the factor of significant numbers of dancers
in enhanced mental
states--this gig will require all of the best skills of calling. That
includes careful programming, planning, training the regular contra
dancers,
and working with all other parties including the
musicians, sound, and
light
engineers. It is interesting that these folks are
using multiple
communication channels to help integrate the newcomers.
I am most intrigued with the idea put forth by the burner contra folks of
using the lighting to reinforce the calls. Every phrase in the dance (A1,
A2, B1, and B2) could have a different color or effect setting. Using the
lighting as a reinforcement to the calls could be a powerful technique for
such a difficult venue. It will require an extra caller who knows the
lighting system or a lighting technician who knows how to call contras.
This crowd will need every technique the callers and organizers can think
of
to sweep in the first-timers.
I will be very interested in hearing how things work out.
- Greg McKenzie
On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 5:37 PM, Mark Stowe <mkstowegnv(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Jolaine is a wonderful caller and I understand what she is saying
> but... There are always spectators at dances and at Burning Man
> there are also many people walking through the area and fire-dancing
> is a dramatic way to draw in that much more attention and therefore
> potential new dancers. Secondly there is the thrill of the challenge
> for the caller in succeeding in meshing two skills s/he loves.
> Finally there is probably going to be a novel thrill for the dancers
> who will getting something like that primal feeling of dancing around
> a fire - while contradancing. I think there will be plenty of
> enjoyment without taking in all the details in a way that would
> distract attention from their own dancing. They will go look at the
> youtube videos later - and admit it so will you :)
>
> On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 7:27 PM, JoLaine Jones-Pokorney
> <jolaine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > I applaud Mark for all his efforts to spread contra dancing. But I have
> to
> > ask what is the purpose of firedancing/hooping while calling? I would
> argue
> > that this is an unnecessary distraction and puts the focus on the
caller
> > instead of on the dancers. Am I supposed to
watch this person
> > firedance/hoop while I am trying to contra dance? I hope that
organizers
> > will ask if this "innovation" is
really making the dancing more
> enjoyable,
> > or simply for the sake of being "different." My personal opinion is
that
> > the caller should be as invisible as possible
- call clearly and get
out
> of
> > the way of the dancers. There are certainly callers who contribute
> beyond
> > the calls such as Beth Molero and Nils Fredland's with their wonderful
> > singing voices and other callers who may clog or play spoons or some
> other
> > contribution to the experience. But firedancing/hooping is a
distraction
from the dance, not a contribution to it.
May Burning Man contra grow and thrive for years to come!
JoLaine
--
JoLaine Jones-Pokorney
"We are as gods and might as well get good at it!"
- Stewart Brand
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
11:22 a.m.
On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 11:09 AM, Greg McKenzie <grekenzie(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I have not been back for years now but I know that
calling for this
venue would be one of the most difficult calling gigs I can imagine. There
will probably be 20% to more than 50% first-timers in the crowd. Combined
with the problem of many distractions (every potential participant has
about 2,999 other installations they want to see during the evening)--not to
mention the factor of significant numbers of dancers in enhanced mental
states--this gig will require all of the best skills of calling.
All the attributes of the dreaded open-bar wedding dance, plus distractions.
11:52 a.m.
Video at the burningmancontradance.com website - missed the nights with two
lines and this years should be more interesting. Better reason to go the
site - my own take on an intro to contra (comments appreciated)
On Aug 7, 2011 11:22 AM, "Donald Perley" <donperley(a)gmail.com> wrote:
distractions.
On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 11:09 AM, Greg McKenzie
<grekenzie(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> I have not been back for years now but I know
that calling for this
> venue would be one of the most difficult calling gigs I can imagine.
There
> will probably be 20% to more than 50% first-timers
in the crowd.
Combined
> with the problem of many distractions (every
potential participant has
> about 2,999 other installations they want to see during the evening)--not
to
mention the
factor of significant numbers of dancers in enhanced mental
states--this gig will require all of the best skills of calling.
All the attributes of the dreaded open-bar wedding dance, plus _______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
1:57 p.m.
On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 8:52 AM, Mark Stowe <mkstowegnv(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Video at the burningmancontradance.com website -
missed the nights with
two
lines and this years should be more interesting. Better reason to go the
site - my own take on an intro to contra (comments appreciated).
The web site freezes my old computer. Please don't launch multiple videos
without asking.
The intro page is quite good. Thanks for not trying to explain what contra
dance *is*. It could be tightened even more by letting the video provide
context and focusing all text on what the reader actually needs in order to
participate. Assume that the reader wants to join you and just give the
information about what they need in order to do so. Make it a list.
- Greg McKenzie
1:41 p.m.
New subject: Firedancing/ Hooping while calling and other possible future Burning Man innovations
Greg McKenzie wrote:
I am most intrigued with the idea put forth by the burner contra folks of
using the lighting to reinforce the calls. Every phrase in the dance (A1,
A2, B1, and B2) could have a different color or effect setting. Using the
lighting as a reinforcement to the calls could be a powerful technique for
such a difficult venue. It will require an extra caller who knows the
lighting system or a lighting technician who knows how to call contras.
I like this idea a lot too. I want to take it a step further and have
the light actually be calls:
http://sccs.swarthmore.edu/~cbr/news/2011-08-07.html
Jeff
1:55 p.m.
New subject: Tripping the light fantastic
Folks,
why don't you just leave well enough alone? Play with all colors of the rainbow
if you will - but not instead of skillful calling! I don't like Jeff's idea as
stated in his link at all. But that's me... I also like triple minors and proper
dances <g>.
Hanny
2:32 p.m.
Jeff wrote:
I like this idea a lot too. I want to take it a step
further and have
the light actually be calls:
http://sccs.swarthmore.edu/~cbr/news/2011-08-07.html
There are calls, prompts, and cues. I use "calls" to refer to words that
can instruct everyone during the first walk-through. (Others might call
this "instructions.") Prompts are what you give out when the music starts.
Cues are what the dancers use to help them remember what the figures are
after the prompts stop. Cues can be music, examples by other dancers around
them, eye contact, or other leads from surrounding dancers. They can also
be lights. Lights, however, cannot instruct even the regular dancers what
the figures are. To keep the dance form open to the general public we will
need some kind of instructive calls to start.
- Greg McKenzie
3:43 p.m.
New subject: Firedancing/ Hooping while calling and other possible future Burning Man innovations
Greg McKenzie wrote:
There are calls, prompts, and cues. I use "calls" to refer to words
that can instruct everyone during the first walk-through. (Others
might call this "instructions.") Prompts are what you give out when
the music starts. Cues are what the dancers use to help them
remember what the figures are after the prompts stop. Cues can be
music, examples by other dancers around them, eye contact, or other
leads from surrounding dancers. They can also be lights.
These sound like potentially useful words, but don't match my mental
model. I think of the hall as a big mush of people with different
abilities to turn external signals into dance and different abilities
to turn danced actions into short term memory. It all works as long
as the dance chosen and signals given fit the abilities of the crowd
as an organism. So when a caller goes 'sss' right when the dancers
are either about to do long lines or circle left, that can be just
enough for the hall to consense onthe right next move. They don't
need to give a full call, just a small signal. I see these lights as
taking on a similar role to short calls (circle, star, chain, swing):
they don't tell you all of what you need to do next, but they tell
enough of the crowd enough that enough people remember which of
several moves they have primed from the walkthrough goes next.
To keep the dance form open to the general public we will need some
kind of instructive calls to start.
Yes. I don't want initial teaching to go away, and I have trouble
imagining light-calls working the first time through the dance.
Jeff
4891
days inactive
4892
days old
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
11 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
Donald Perley -
Dorcas Hand -
Greg McKenzie -
Hanny Budnick -
Jeff Kaufman -
JoLaine Jones-Pokorney -
Mark Stowe