25 Oct
2012
25 Oct
'12
1:47 a.m.
120 bpm is generally considered normal - but one of my best dance
experiences ever, with the band "Old Grey Goose" left me both feeling
sublime, and realizing their tempos were on average a little lower than i
was used to. Ralph Sweet has a great thought about tempo - the idea that,
based on the length of the average human leg, there is a frequency of
motion at which the least force is expended to set it swinging (imagining
the dancer's leg as a pendulum)...
And i suppose that, like everything about dance music and calling, what is
ideal really depends upon the dancers present. Suffice it to say i've had
great experiences as a dancer around 118, but when i'm really "into" a tune
on the fiddle, it's easy to warp up to 126 without realizing it. As a
fiddler new to playing for dancers, if your technique on notey reels is up
to snuff, it's easy to get carried away and confuse "energy" with speed -
sometimes the hardest thing is slowing down. On the dance floor that
confusion never happens, fast is just fast... and less enjoyable to dance.
Hence my making a somewhat conservative suggestion.
tavi
25 Oct
25 Oct
noon
New subject: ideal contra tunes
Out in the Pacific northwest, we generally tend to play quite a bit lower
than 120. We get complaints about 118 that we are playing too fast from
the dancers and callers. Kind of depends on the dance, how many four or
eight count moves, how far apart the lines are if its a big hall, the
experience of the dancer, some of the moves like hays and wavey lines. I
generally like about 114 if its not too hot. Some callers ask us to call
as slow at 110 which feels pretty draggy to me.
On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 10:47 PM, tavi merrill <melodiouswoodchuck(a)gmail.com
wrote:
120 bpm is generally considered normal - but one of my
best dance
experiences ever, with the band "Old Grey Goose" left me both feeling
sublime, and realizing their tempos were on average a little lower than i
was used to. Ralph Sweet has a great thought about tempo - the idea that,
based on the length of the average human leg, there is a frequency of
motion at which the least force is expended to set it swinging (imagining
the dancer's leg as a pendulum)...
And i suppose that, like everything about dance music and calling, what is
ideal really depends upon the dancers present. Suffice it to say i've had
great experiences as a dancer around 118, but when i'm really "into" a
tune
on the fiddle, it's easy to warp up to 126 without realizing it. As a
fiddler new to playing for dancers, if your technique on notey reels is up
to snuff, it's easy to get carried away and confuse "energy" with speed -
sometimes the hardest thing is slowing down. On the dance floor that
confusion never happens, fast is just fast... and less enjoyable to dance.
Hence my making a somewhat conservative suggestion.
tavi
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12:32 p.m.
New subject: ideal contra tunes
There really is no ideal tempo for contra dance. It depends on the
complexity and flow of the dance, and what the dancers are looking
for. Many dancers enjoy getting sweaty to fast tunes as high as 130 BPM.
There may be some age correlation here, because the younger crowd is more
likely to be familiar with techno, ska, and other music forms that tend to
have high BPM. Also, the wider use of dance-based fitness programs this
century is likely changing expectations, as more people think of it as a
fitness program in addition to a social venue.
I specifically caution you on Ralph's “least energy expended” theory
because it's demonstrably wrong for many venues—if dancers wanted to expend
the least energy, you wouldn't see them doing a zillion flourishes. (Also,
the energy expenditure vs. BPM hasn't actually been studied.)
As a musician, the “draggy” feel of the 110 tempo may be related to the
music you're playing. You might find that expanding your repertoire solves
this problem for you.
On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 12:00 PM, Kathryn Bowman
<kathrynjobowman(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
Out in the Pacific northwest, we generally tend to
play quite a bit lower
than 120. We get complaints about 118 that we are playing too fast from
the dancers and callers. Kind of depends on the dance, how many four or
eight count moves, how far apart the lines are if its a big hall, the
experience of the dancer, some of the moves like hays and wavey lines. I
generally like about 114 if its not too hot. Some callers ask us to call
as slow at 110 which feels pretty draggy to me.
On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 10:47 PM, tavi merrill <
melodiouswoodchuck(a)gmail.com
wrote:
120 bpm is generally considered normal - but one
of my best dance
experiences ever, with the band "Old Grey Goose" left me both feeling
sublime, and realizing their tempos were on average a little lower than i
was used to. Ralph Sweet has a great thought about tempo - the idea that,
based on the length of the average human leg, there is a frequency of
motion at which the least force is expended to set it swinging (imagining
the dancer's leg as a pendulum)...
And i suppose that, like everything about dance music and calling, what
is
ideal really depends upon the dancers present.
Suffice it to say i've had
great experiences as a dancer around 118, but when i'm really "into" a
tune
on the fiddle, it's easy to warp up to 126
without realizing it. As a
fiddler new to playing for dancers, if your technique on notey reels is
up
to snuff, it's easy to get carried away and
confuse "energy" with speed -
sometimes the hardest thing is slowing down. On the dance floor that
confusion never happens, fast is just fast... and less enjoyable to
dance.
Hence my making a somewhat conservative
suggestion.
tavi
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
12:40 p.m.
New subject: ideal contra tunes
My first real concentrated dance experiences were in the old time square
dance community where tunes tend to be played much faster. As a result, I
generally don't mind fast playing and tend to get annoyed with some of the
more laid back contra tunes that are often well below 118...the 110 is not
unheard of but unless you're playing for a wedding or bar/bat mitzvah or
some other one time dance or a senior center or children's dance, it's too
slow for me. I always recommend old dance tunes for a beginning fiddler.
They grew up with the dance and tend to be the perfect complement. I'm not
saying limit to that. There are too many good newer tunes to even suggest
that, but the old tunes are a good place to start. As a dancer, I have two
general requirements: real tunes (usually with distinct A and B parts) that
tell my body where it is in the dance (old time square dances are often an
exception to this, because they often don't depend on tune structure); and
a solid, hard core rhythm that tells my feet where they should be. I don't
mind medleys and find they often enhance the dance experience, but don't
find them necessary. I have little use for "contra band tricks" used to
generate interest, to entertain the band or to demonstrate how clever the
band is. Far, far too many musicians tend to pick up the "tricks" before
they really master the dance tunes, in much the same way far, far too many
dancers tend to pick up the flourishes before they learn how to do the
actual dance moves. Finally, I'd tell any would be dance musicians to try
dancing and get the feel for what the music does for the dancers and the
dance; and, if at all possible, keep an eye on the dancers. You'll see how
your music is doing.
Thanks, George
On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 12:00 PM, Kathryn Bowman
<kathrynjobowman(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
Out in the Pacific northwest, we generally tend to
play quite a bit lower
than 120. We get complaints about 118 that we are playing too fast from
the dancers and callers. Kind of depends on the dance, how many four or
eight count moves, how far apart the lines are if its a big hall, the
experience of the dancer, some of the moves like hays and wavey lines. I
generally like about 114 if its not too hot. Some callers ask us to call
as slow at 110 which feels pretty draggy to me.
On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 10:47 PM, tavi merrill <
melodiouswoodchuck(a)gmail.com
wrote:
120 bpm is generally considered normal - but one
of my best dance
experiences ever, with the band "Old Grey Goose" left me both feeling
sublime, and realizing their tempos were on average a little lower than i
was used to. Ralph Sweet has a great thought about tempo - the idea that,
based on the length of the average human leg, there is a frequency of
motion at which the least force is expended to set it swinging (imagining
the dancer's leg as a pendulum)...
And i suppose that, like everything about dance music and calling, what
is
ideal really depends upon the dancers present.
Suffice it to say i've had
great experiences as a dancer around 118, but when i'm really "into" a
tune
on the fiddle, it's easy to warp up to 126
without realizing it. As a
fiddler new to playing for dancers, if your technique on notey reels is
up
to snuff, it's easy to get carried away and
confuse "energy" with speed -
sometimes the hardest thing is slowing down. On the dance floor that
confusion never happens, fast is just fast... and less enjoyable to
dance.
Hence my making a somewhat conservative
suggestion.
tavi
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
12:54 p.m.
New subject: ideal contra tunes
No-one seems to have mentioned that the tempo should be appropriate for
the situation.
How about considering some of the following:
Temperature
Humidity
Presence or absence of air conditioning
Floor surface
Number of beginners
Where the dance is in the program and what went before and what is
coming next
At our local dance (Glen Echo) I have seen new dancers leave in their
droves because the band was playing 120-124bpm for the 1st few dances
(and the caller didn't change this). They were exhausted!
Winter speed here is typically 118-120 but in the summer 116 is much
more comfortable.
If it is taking longer than you would expect for the line to reform
(people are drinking, changing T-shirts, resting etc) then consider that
the pace (or the length) of the last dance was too much.
Michael Barraclough
www.michaelbarraclough.com
On Thu, 2012-10-25 at 09:00 -0700, Kathryn Bowman wrote:
Out in the Pacific northwest, we generally tend to
play quite a bit lower
than 120. We get complaints about 118 that we are playing too fast from
the dancers and callers. Kind of depends on the dance, how many four or
eight count moves, how far apart the lines are if its a big hall, the
experience of the dancer, some of the moves like hays and wavey lines. I
generally like about 114 if its not too hot. Some callers ask us to call
as slow at 110 which feels pretty draggy to me.
On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 10:47 PM, tavi merrill <melodiouswoodchuck(a)gmail.com
wrote:
120 bpm is generally considered normal - but one
of my best dance
experiences ever, with the band "Old Grey Goose" left me both feeling
sublime, and realizing their tempos were on average a little lower than i
was used to. Ralph Sweet has a great thought about tempo - the idea that,
based on the length of the average human leg, there is a frequency of
motion at which the least force is expended to set it swinging (imagining
the dancer's leg as a pendulum)...
And i suppose that, like everything about dance music and calling, what is
ideal really depends upon the dancers present. Suffice it to say i've had
great experiences as a dancer around 118, but when i'm really "into" a
tune
on the fiddle, it's easy to warp up to 126 without realizing it. As a
fiddler new to playing for dancers, if your technique on notey reels is up
to snuff, it's easy to get carried away and confuse "energy" with speed -
sometimes the hardest thing is slowing down. On the dance floor that
confusion never happens, fast is just fast... and less enjoyable to dance.
Hence my making a somewhat conservative suggestion.
tavi
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
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4 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
Charles Hannum -
George Mercer -
Kathryn Bowman -
Michael Barraclough -
tavi merrill