1 Dec
2010
1 Dec
'10
6:37 p.m.
Hey, I was wondering what other callers thought about the following: often, during the
walkthrough of the 1st contra dance of the evening, the caller explains that dancers
should trade places with their partner whenever they reach the end of the set
However, I never do this, and have never had a problem as a result -- the experienced
dancers in the set, apparently, are able to get the new dancers to do this, and nobody has
ever complained to me that I didn't instruct dancers to switch
I have wondered what others thought about this -- my own thinking is why take time to
explain something when it isn't necessary?
Regards,
Mark Widmer / central NJ
1 Dec
1 Dec
6:43 p.m.
Hi Mark,
One unintended consequence of not covering the end effect on the walk through that
happened when I was calling was to have the top couple dash to the bottom of the set to
get back into the action.
Ron Nelson
Chula Vista, CA
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 16:37:08 -0800
From: widmermt(a)yahoo.com
To: callers(a)sharedweight.net
Subject: [Callers] Telling couples to switch at the end of a contra set
Hey, I was wondering what other callers thought about the following: often, during the
walkthrough of the 1st contra dance of the evening, the caller explains that dancers
should trade places with their partner whenever they reach the end of the set
However, I never do this, and have never had a problem as a result -- the experienced
dancers in the set, apparently, are able to get the new dancers to do this, and nobody has
ever complained to me that I didn't instruct dancers to switch
I have wondered what others thought about this -- my own thinking is why take time to
explain something when it isn't necessary?
Regards,
Mark Widmer / central NJ
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
6:55 p.m.
And a related question: when will callers stop saying "Hands four from the top,
number ones cross over"--in acknowledgement that improper formation is the default
for modern contras? I'm curious how many callers have already stopped saying that. Or
to put the question another way, in how many dance communities do dancers line up inproper
and not expect a reminder to "cross over" and be in improper formation?
Richard
On Dec 1, 2010, at 7:37 PM, Mark Widmer wrote:
Hey, I was wondering what other callers thought about
the following: often, during the walkthrough of the 1st contra dance of the evening, the
caller explains that dancers should trade places with their partner whenever they reach
the end of the set
However, I never do this, and have never had a problem as a result -- the experienced
dancers in the set, apparently, are able to get the new dancers to do this, and nobody has
ever complained to me that I didn't instruct dancers to switch
I have wondered what others thought about this -- my own thinking is why take time to
explain something when it isn't necessary?
Regards,
Mark Widmer / central NJ
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
7:03 p.m.
I always include "Hands 4 from the top, actives cross over if you haven't
already" if that's what I want for configuration (and I
try to use varied configurations where possible).
FWIW, this is NOT ingrained behavior for first-timers, and surprisingly a number of
experienced dancers don't do it unless prompted.
Unfortunately, for those who DO do this on autopilot, it reinforces the "I can keep
chatting - I don't have to listen to the caller
yet" attitude that can make it a bit longer to start things.
That said, I try to vary the intro instruction, a la, "take hands in a group of 4,
facing up or down the line - gents, make sure
your partner is on your right." It's just different enough that some people wake
up who might now otherwise.
With a particular noisy group, I may start with "ok, and now the 2nd figure is"
and wait for someone to ask for me to restart from
the beginning. :-)
I'd been curious what others' experiences have been.
Thanx, Ric Goldman
-----Original Message-----
From: callers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net
[mailto:callers-bounces@sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of Richard Fischer
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 4:56 PM
To: widmermt(a)yahoo.com; Caller's discussion list
Subject: Re: [Callers] Telling couples to switch at the end
of a contra set
And a related question: when will callers stop saying "Hands
four from the top, number ones cross over"--in
acknowledgement that improper formation is the default for
modern contras? I'm curious how many callers have already
stopped saying that. Or to put the question another way, in
how many dance communities do dancers line up inproper and
not expect a reminder to "cross over" and be in improper formation?
Richard
On Dec 1, 2010, at 7:37 PM, Mark Widmer wrote:
Hey, I was wondering what other callers thought
about the
following:
often, during the walkthrough of the 1st contra
dance of
the evening,
the caller explains that dancers should trade
places with their
partner whenever they reach the end of the set
However, I never do this, and have never had a problem as a
result --
the experienced dancers in the set, apparently,
are able to get the
new dancers to do this, and nobody has ever complained to me that I
didn't instruct dancers to switch
I have wondered what others thought about this -- my own
thinking is why take
time to explain something when it isn't
necessary?
Regards,
Mark Widmer / central NJ
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
7:24 p.m.
We never cross over in Nelson -- the next dance might be Money Musk or
Chorus Jig or ...
Lisa
On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 8:03 PM, Ric Goldman <timelord(a)rgoldman.org> wrote:
I always include "Hands 4 from the top, actives
cross over if you haven't
already" if that's what I want for configuration (and I
try to use varied configurations where possible).
FWIW, this is NOT ingrained behavior for first-timers, and surprisingly a
number of experienced dancers don't do it unless prompted.
Unfortunately, for those who DO do this on autopilot, it reinforces the "I
can keep chatting - I don't have to listen to the caller
yet" attitude that can make it a bit longer to start things.
That said, I try to vary the intro instruction, a la, "take hands in a
group of 4, facing up or down the line - gents, make sure
your partner is on your right." It's just different enough that some
people wake up who might now otherwise.
With a particular noisy group, I may start with "ok, and now the 2nd figure
is" and wait for someone to ask for me to restart from
the beginning. :-)
I'd been curious what others' experiences have been.
Thanx, Ric Goldman
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-----Original Message-----
From: callers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net
[mailto:callers-bounces@sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of Richard Fischer
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 4:56 PM
To: widmermt(a)yahoo.com; Caller's discussion list
Subject: Re: [Callers] Telling couples to switch at the end
of a contra set
And a related question: when will callers stop saying "Hands
four from the top, number ones cross over"--in
acknowledgement that improper formation is the default for
modern contras? I'm curious how many callers have already
stopped saying that. Or to put the question another way, in
how many dance communities do dancers line up inproper and
not expect a reminder to "cross over" and be in improper formation?
Richard
On Dec 1, 2010, at 7:37 PM, Mark Widmer wrote:
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
Hey, I was wondering what other callers thought
about the
following:
often, during the walkthrough of the 1st contra
dance of
the evening,
the caller explains that dancers should trade
places with their
partner whenever they reach the end of the set
However, I never do this, and have never had a problem as a
result --
the experienced dancers in the set, apparently,
are able to get the
new dancers to do this, and nobody has ever complained to me that I
didn't instruct dancers to switch
I have wondered what others thought about this -- my own
thinking is why take time
to explain something when it isn't
necessary?
Regards,
Mark Widmer / central NJ
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
7:41 p.m.
The prompt "hands four from the top" should always be said, I would
never assume, nor do the dances I call on a regular basis make that
assumption. The instruction.. Cross over when at the foot of the set..
I leave out of my walkthroughs.. and they have always figured it out.
On occasion when calling in a new venue and I see dancers
automatically lining up improper.. I call hand six, it keeps them
focused. I call many proper dances (chestnuts) in any given night
keeping the dancers connected to the music the dance and our shared
history.
Don Primrose / Nelson NH
On 12/1/10, Ric Goldman <timelord(a)rgoldman.org> wrote:
I always include "Hands 4 from the top, actives
cross over if you haven't
already" if that's what I want for configuration (and I
try to use varied configurations where possible).
FWIW, this is NOT ingrained behavior for first-timers, and surprisingly a
number of experienced dancers don't do it unless prompted.
Unfortunately, for those who DO do this on autopilot, it reinforces the "I
can keep chatting - I don't have to listen to the caller
yet" attitude that can make it a bit longer to start things.
That said, I try to vary the intro instruction, a la, "take hands in a group
of 4, facing up or down the line - gents, make sure
your partner is on your right." It's just different enough that some people
wake up who might now otherwise.
With a particular noisy group, I may start with "ok, and now the 2nd figure
is" and wait for someone to ask for me to restart from
the beginning. :-)
I'd been curious what others' experiences have been.
Thanx, Ric Goldman
-----Original Message-----
From: callers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net
[mailto:callers-bounces@sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of Richard Fischer
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 4:56 PM
To: widmermt(a)yahoo.com; Caller's discussion list
Subject: Re: [Callers] Telling couples to switch at the end
of a contra set
And a related question: when will callers stop saying "Hands
four from the top, number ones cross over"--in
acknowledgement that improper formation is the default for
modern contras? I'm curious how many callers have already
stopped saying that. Or to put the question another way, in
how many dance communities do dancers line up inproper and
not expect a reminder to "cross over" and be in improper formation?
Richard
On Dec 1, 2010, at 7:37 PM, Mark Widmer wrote:
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
Hey, I was wondering what other callers thought
about the
following:
often, during the walkthrough of the 1st contra
dance of
the evening,
the caller explains that dancers should trade
places with their
partner whenever they reach the end of the set
However, I never do this, and have never had a problem as a
result --
the experienced dancers in the set, apparently,
are able to get the
new dancers to do this, and nobody has ever complained to me that I
didn't instruct dancers to switch
I have wondered what others thought about this -- my own
thinking is why take time
to explain something when it isn't
necessary?
Regards,
Mark Widmer / central NJ
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
7:51 p.m.
On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 5:41 PM, Donald Primrose <limerickfarm(a)gmail.com> wrote:
The prompt "hands four from the top" should
always be said, I would
never assume, nor do the dances I call on a regular basis make that
assumption. The instruction.. Cross over when at the foot of the set..
I leave out of my walkthroughs.. and they have always figured it out.
On occasion when calling in a new venue and I see dancers
automatically lining up improper.. I call hand six, it keeps them
focused. I call many proper dances (chestnuts) in any given night
keeping the dancers connected to the music the dance and our shared
history.
I dunno. I'm happy to encourage them to automatically take
hands four -- it saves me the hardest part of my job if they
can organize without my prompting. When I do call triple
minors I just remember to start announcing hands six
early in the line-up phase.
Interestingly enough in San Diego, the dancer default
is to line up proper, even though it's unusual for a
proper dance to be called.
As for the original question, adding "ones cross over"
while they take hands four isn't time you could be saying
anything else, as people are still getting organized and
aren't in place for the first move of the dance.
I tend to talk about crossing over at the ends during the
beginner's session, rather than the first dance. Though if
they've heard it, they have some context as experienced
dancers are waving to them to trade sides.
-Chris Page
San Diego
8:14 p.m.
New subject: "Hands Four From the Top" Instruction
Contrary to the action of switching at the ends of the set, this
instruction is a part of set management. In fact it also helps to
manage the focus of the dancers.
I always give out set formation instructions. In addition to forming
the sets properly these instructions give important cues to the
dancers to help them gracefully transition from conversations in the
set into listing to instructions during the walk-through. Ending a
conversation politely and graciously takes time. The instruction of
"Please take hands in groups of four from the top," gives the dancers
a cue that the caller will soon be moving into the walk-through phase
of the slot. I try to allow about 20 seconds or so for the hands
four to propagate to the bottom of the line. Then I say "Number ones
please cross over," if appropriate. I say this even if ALL of the
dancers have crossed over already. This command tells the dancers
that the walk-through instructions will begin very shortly and that
they must quickly finish their story or anecdote and begin listening.
These cues, given clearly and not too loudly, will set a tone of
politeness and consideration. I much prefer this to callers who use
the volume of the PA system to interrupt conversations on the
floor. People will quickly learn the "drill" and will respond by
helping the caller to make a smooth transition. This approach also
lowers the volume level in the room and builds a cooperative
relationship with the caller.
Another thought,
Greg
***********
At 04:55 PM 12/1/2010, Richard wrote:
And a related question: when will callers stop saying
"Hands four
from the top, number ones cross over"--in acknowledgement that
improper formation is the default for modern contras? I'm curious
how many callers have already stopped saying that. Or to put the
question another way, in how many dance communities do dancers line
up inproper and not expect a reminder to "cross over" and be in
improper formation?
Richard
On Dec 1, 2010, at 7:37 PM, Mark Widmer wrote:
Hey, I was wondering what other callers thought
about the
following: often, during the walkthrough of the 1st contra dance of
the evening, the caller explains that dancers should trade places
with their partner whenever they reach the end of the set
However, I never do this, and have never had a problem as a
result -- the
experienced dancers in the set, apparently, are able
to get the new dancers to do this, and nobody has ever complained
to me that I didn't instruct dancers to switch
I have wondered what others thought about this -- my own thinking
is why take
time to explain something when it isn't necessary?
Regards,
Mark Widmer / central NJ
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers 
9:29 p.m.
New subject: "Hands Four From the Top" Instruction
I tell them --
(at the beginning of dance:) *Ones get ready to be Ones* by switching.
To everyone else: when you reach the top and become a new One, switch *then*
.
To old Ones: when you reach the bottom and become a two, *UNswitch*.
Slightly different thought process; seems to work.
Basically, though, it's regional -- high proportion of regulars? They'll
take care of it.
High proportion of day-trippers? You prob. should nudge a little.
On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 9:14 PM, Greg McKenzie <gregmck(a)earthlink.net> wrote:
Contrary to the action of switching at the ends of the set, this
instruction is a part of set management. In fact it also helps to manage
the focus of the dancers.
I always give out set formation instructions. In addition to forming the
sets properly these instructions give important cues to the dancers to help
them gracefully transition from conversations in the set into listing to
instructions during the walk-through. Ending a conversation politely and
graciously takes time. The instruction of "Please take hands in groups of
four from the top," gives the dancers a cue that the caller will soon be
moving into the walk-through phase of the slot. I try to allow about 20
seconds or so for the hands four to propagate to the bottom of the line.
Then I say "Number ones please cross over," if appropriate. I say this
even if ALL of the dancers have crossed over already. This command tells
the dancers that the walk-through instructions will begin very shortly and
that they must quickly finish their story or anecdote and begin listening.
These cues, given clearly and not too loudly, will set a tone of politeness
and consideration. I much prefer this to callers who use the volume of the
PA system to interrupt conversations on the floor. People will quickly
learn the "drill" and will respond by helping the caller to make a smooth
transition. This approach also lowers the volume level in the room and
builds a cooperative relationship with the caller.
Another thought,
Greg
***********
At 04:55 PM 12/1/2010, Richard wrote:
And a related question: when will callers stop
saying "Hands four from the
top, number ones cross over"--in acknowledgement that improper formation is
the default for modern contras? I'm curious how many callers have already
stopped saying that. Or to put the question another way, in how many dance
communities do dancers line up inproper and not expect a reminder to "cross
over" and be in improper formation?
Richard
On Dec 1, 2010, at 7:37 PM, Mark Widmer wrote:
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
Hey, I was wondering what other callers thought
about the following:
often, during the walkthrough of the 1st contra dance of the
evening, the
caller explains that dancers should trade places with their partner whenever
they reach the end of the set
However, I never do this, and have never had a problem as a result --
the
experienced dancers in the set, apparently, are able to get the new
dancers to do this, and nobody has ever complained to me that I didn't
instruct dancers to switch
I have wondered what others thought about this -- my own thinking is why
take time
to explain something when it isn't necessary?
Regards,
Mark Widmer / central NJ
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
7:53 p.m.
Mark,
This is a great question that is more profound than it looks. I
think you are spot on in your assessment that this reminder is not
necessary. In fact I would submit that reminding dancers of this is
counter-productive for two reasons:
First: The reminder to cross over at the ends of the set can cause
consternation among newcomers who must now remember another "rule"
that might trip them up. This communicates, by implication, that the
dancing will be more difficult than it actually is.
Second: The reminder is, in fact, absolutely unnecessary unless the
caller assumes that at least some of the newcomers will be paired up
with other newcomers. This is an important point. When the caller
gives this instruction it is implied that the caller expects some
newcomers to dance with each other. Thus the caller is giving
implied permission for the regulars to leave the newcomers to fend
for themselves. Consider the alternative: If the caller never gives
this instruction it is implied that she expects ALL newcomers to be
paired up with more experienced dancers.
Thus by leaving this instruction out the caller is inviting the
regulars to take a proactive and essential role in partnering with
newcomers. The same can be said for many other instructions, such as
what to do if a couple leaves the set, or how to line up into contra
lines. Why not assume the support of all of the regulars and
actually give them an important role to play in partnering with
newcomers? There is no need to state this explicitly. The regulars
will note the lack of this information, see that they have a role to
play, and will welcome the chance to guide newcomers. It is much
more fun to dance with newcomers if you can "show them the
routine." Leaving out this information actually makes it more fun to
dance with newcomers.
What you do NOT say communicates important information, and is often
a better way to make the point. If you want newcomers to be welcomed
and embraced by the regulars then leave this kind of task to them and
thus give the regulars a vital role to play. This is much more fun
for the regulars than just standing still while listening to the
caller explain something that they could show the newcomer in a
fraction of the time. I have been calling this way for years. I
have never had a problem with newcomers missing the information, and
I am convinced that it subtly encourages the integration of newcomers.
Just a thought,
Greg
*************
At 04:37 PM 12/1/2010, you wrote:
Hey, I was wondering what other callers thought about
the following:
often, during the walkthrough of the 1st contra dance of the
evening, the caller explains that dancers should trade places with
their partner whenever they reach the end of the set
However, I never do this, and have never had a problem as a result
-- the experienced dancers in the set, apparently, are able to get
the new dancers to do this, and nobody has ever complained to me
that I didn't instruct dancers to switch
I have wondered what others thought about this -- my own thinking is
why take time to explain something when it isn't necessary?
Regards,
Mark Widmer / central NJ
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
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4901
days inactive
4901
days old
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
9 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
Amy Cann -
Chris Page -
Donald Primrose -
Greg McKenzie -
Lisa Sieverts -
Mark Widmer -
Ric Goldman -
Richard Fischer -
Ron Nelson