11 Feb
2014
11 Feb
'14
1:50 p.m.
Actually: " Circle 3/4 & pass through as ANY move of a dance" I think.
Yes, lots of excellent callers stress that circle 3/4 is six beats. I wish
more callers would do it.
Read also mentioned "avoidance of teaching".
But we ARE teachers. You may CALL it a walk-through, but what you are
actually doing is TEACHING the dance. And if the dance will work better if
you point out some key items then go head and point them out, i.e. teach!
In fact there are LOTS of moves that are really 6+2:
Down the Hall in Lines of Four (6) Turn Alone (2).
Swing (6) open out (with a twirl maybe) for the next move (2)
Star/Circle Left (6) turn to prepare to go back the other way (2)
These are all things that cause dancers to be late because they do an eight
beat move and then spend the first part of the next phrase preparing for the
next move. I suspect it might help a lot if we mentioned the 6/2 concept
more when calling/teaching!
Other examples that would benefit from a few key phrases from the caller
(these are all from recent dances attended by hundreds of "experienced"
dancers):
Down the Hall in Lines of Four (4) California Twirl (4) - it's amazing how
many dancers think they can do California Twirl in one beat and end up
making lines crash - callers could just mention that California Twirl takes
longer than Turn Alone so start around beat 5. (E.g Balance the Ring (4)
California Twirl (4))
Men Allemande Left 1 & 1/2 - please, please, please tell them that it is
dancing and not arm-wrestling - that if their arm moves closer to their body
then they LOSE! :-) It is so frustrating having to fight (which I won't do
any more after two shoulder operations) or accept that you aren't going to
get around easily and that you aren't going to be able to spin out because
it is too late and your arm has been forced into an awkward position.
Swings where your partner hangs, grips, clamps, leans or otherwise prevents
a wonderful experience - I wish callers would mention more (even to the most
"experienced" dancers) that it is a loving embrace, a gentle counterbalance
and relaxing will make the experience so much better.
It only takes a second to mention these and similar elements during a
walk-through. If we all drip-feed good ideas then some of the dancers will
try them out and enjoy them.
Yes, we should teach! :-)
Happy dancing,
John
John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362
http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
11 Feb
11 Feb
3:22 p.m.
New subject: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance
our last go-round on "Circle Left 3/4 (6 beats); pass through (2)"
was in June of last year. You can find the messages (including
my own brilliant insights on the subject) in the archive starting
at
http://www.sharedweight.net/pipermail/callers/2013-June/date.html#6252
(There are earlier messages with the subject line "Circle left 3/4"
remarking on the frequent occurrence of that figure and requesting or
supplying dances that don't include it. The discussion about timing
starts at the point I've indicated above, with a message by Read Weaver
dated Thu Jun 6 08:47:53 EDT 2013.)
--Jim
4:56 p.m.
New subject: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance
John wrote:
Read also mentioned "avoidance of teaching".
But we ARE teachers. You may CALL it a walk-through, but what you are
actually doing is TEACHING the dance. And if the dance will work better if
you point out some key items then go head and point them out, i.e. teach!
I know that many of us love teaching. In fact it seems to be one reason
many take up calling in the first place. But teaching from the mike at an
open, public contra dance can be very counterproductive...particularly with
regard to your efforts to integrate first-timers into the fun.
You love to teach. But so do most of the regular dancers. A big part of
the fun of partnering with newcomers is being able to guide them through
the dance and share your passion for this wonderful dance form. While the
caller is teaching verbally it is almost impossible for the regulars to
enjoy their own "teaching" role. If you really want the regulars to
partner with first-timers one of the key "tricks" is to make sure the
regulars will have time to take the lead and "teach" their partner during
the walk through.
This is what makes partnering with regulars fun, And that is why I try to
keep my prompts to an absolute minimum during the walk-through.
A caller who jabbers constantly during the walk-through can transform the
joy of a collaborative learning experience into a dreadful chore as the
regulars are required to stand by silently while the caller *explains *a
move that they could *show *their partner in less time than it would take
the caller to say the *name *of the move.
And later the caller will complain that it is so hard to get the regulars
to partner with first-timers.
Instead of "explaining" that a circle takes only "6 counts" I would
gently
suggest that callers consider simply giving the prompt "pass through" so
that it ends precisely two counts before the end of the phrase.
That way you can "say it all" with only two words and the dancers get to
keep moving in time with the live music. Make it fun!
Just a thought.
Greg McKenzie
West Coast, USA
5:11 p.m.
New subject: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance
Logistically, I think Greg's approach is difficult to make work. There's
always a new move happening after the pass through, so in effect, you'll be
calling four beats of "pass through, something something," usually
"balance
here" or whatnot. Because there's no break between the instruction "pass
through" and the instruction that follows it, I don't think dancers
generally realize from that phrasing that the pass through is intended to
occur after exactly six beats of the circle.
I find experienced dancers often take longer than 6 beats to circle three
places. Regardless of whether callers should be teaching to beginners
during a walkthrough, it can help experienced dancers to hear exactly how
many counts a move should take in a particular dance. It's something a lot
of ECD callers do, but you don't see it much in contra.
-Dave
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Greg McKenzie <grekenzie(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Instead of "explaining" that a circle takes only "6 counts" I would
gently
suggest that callers consider simply giving the prompt "pass through" so
that it ends precisely two counts before the end of the phrase.
That way you can "say it all" with only two words and the dancers get to
keep moving in time with the live music. Make it fun!
Just a thought.
Greg McKenzie
West Coast, USA
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http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
--
David Casserly
(cell) 781 258-2761
5:34 p.m.
New subject: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance
On 2/11/2014 4:11 PM, Dave Casserly wrote:
I find experienced dancers often take longer than 6
beats to circle three
places. Regardless of whether callers should be teaching to beginners
during a walkthrough, it can help experienced dancers to hear exactly how
many counts a move should take in a particular dance. It's something a lot
of ECD callers do, but you don't see it much in contra.
This may be a specific instance of something I have noticed from
time to time. I will be talking to a person who would undoubtedly
describe themselves as an experienced dancer, one who has been doing
contra dance for many years. I will say something in passing about the
length, in beats, of a given figure or about the 64 beat length of a
contra dance and they will look surprised, because it has never occurred
to them that figures have a specific length, or that all contra dances
are the same length, or that the music and dance go together. This
sometimes surprises me as well, in the case of people I know for certain
have been present many times when these sort of things were mentioned by
the caller. So it may be that callers are telling the dancers the
number of beats they have for a given figure, I know that I do this
fairly often, but the dancers fail to absorb the information for one
reason or another.
Jonathan
-----
Jonathan Sivier
Caller of Contra, English and Early American Dances
jsivier AT illinois DOT edu
Dance Page: http://www.sivier.me/dance_leader.html
-----
Q: How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
A: It depends on what dance you call!
5:53 p.m.
New subject: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance
Dave wrote:
Logistically, I think Greg's approach is difficult
to make work. There's
always a new move happening after the pass through, so in effect, you'll be
calling four beats of "pass through, something something," usually
"balance
here" or whatnot. Because there's no break between the instruction "pass
through" and the instruction that follows it, I don't think dancers
generally realize from that phrasing that the pass through is intended to
occur after exactly six beats of the circle.
You are absolutely correct Dave! Structuring calls precisely is often very
difficult and I sometimes simply drop a dance because the prompts become
too jumbled when actually given at the correct beat. I posted to this
thread because I was, coincidentally, working on a dance called Kiss the
Bride by Jeffery Spero.
Kiss the Bride is particularly difficult because it uses the circle 3/4,
pass through transition at the end and the last call I need to fit in is
"dosido" which takes two beats. Because it is where the progression takes
place I also want to say "With the NEXT" to make that clear as well. On my
current dance card I "solved" the problem by giving the "Pass Through"
call
early. That is unacceptable to me and I was trying to come up with a good
way to make it work using calls that are precisely in time with the
phrasing.
My current card reads:
B2: _ _ _ _ [Hands Four and] Circle RIGHT!
_ [Three Places], Pass Through, with the NEXT Dosido
To fix the timing I'm considering something like:
B2: _ _ _ _ [Hands Four and] Circle RIGHT!
_ _ [Three Places], Pass Through, NEXT Dosido
...But that's a lot of words to cram in at the very end of the dance
phrase. If the dance started with "Balance and swing" for example, I could
fit in the word "Balance" which only takes one beat.
I'm thinking of just dropping the dance from my repertoire.
Thanks for reading.
Greg McKenzie
West Coast, USA
12 Feb
12 Feb
9:54 a.m.
New subject: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance
Greg wrote:
...But that's a lot of words to cram in at the very end of the dance
phrase. If the dance started with "Balance and swing" for example, I could
fit in the word "Balance" which only takes one beat.
I'm thinking of just dropping the dance from my repertoire.
There would be a lot of dances to drop. A square dance caller might say Pass thru and
Dosi Next. It easily fits in, takes a syllable out and dancers hear Dosi as Dosido. In
walkthrough you could explain your call if needed.
Rich Sbardella
________________________________
From: Greg McKenzie <grekenzie(a)gmail.com>
To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 5:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Callers] Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance
Dave wrote:
Logistically, I think Greg's approach is difficult
to make work. There's
always a new move happening after the pass through, so in effect, you'll be
calling four beats of "pass through, something something," usually
"balance
here" or whatnot. Because there's no break between the instruction "pass
through" and the instruction that follows it, I don't think dancers
generally realize from that phrasing that the pass through is intended to
occur after exactly six beats of the circle.
You are absolutely correct Dave! Structuring calls precisely is often very
difficult and I sometimes simply drop a dance because the prompts become
too jumbled when actually given at the correct beat. I posted to this
thread because I was, coincidentally, working on a dance called Kiss the
Bride by Jeffery Spero.
Kiss the Bride is particularly difficult because it uses the circle 3/4,
pass through transition at the end and the last call I need to fit in is
"dosido" which takes two beats. Because it is where the progression takes
place I also want to say "With the NEXT" to make that clear as well. On my
current dance card I "solved" the problem by giving the "Pass Through"
call
early. That is unacceptable to me and I was trying to come up with a good
way to make it work using calls that are precisely in time with the
phrasing.
My current card reads:
B2: _ _ _ _ [Hands Four and] Circle RIGHT!
_ [Three Places], Pass Through, with the NEXT Dosido
To fix the timing I'm considering something like:
B2: _ _ _ _ [Hands Four and] Circle RIGHT!
_ _ [Three Places], Pass Through, NEXT Dosido
...But that's a lot of words to cram in at the very end of the dance
phrase. If the dance started with "Balance and swing" for example, I could
fit in the word "Balance" which only takes one beat.
I'm thinking of just dropping the dance from my repertoire.
Thanks for reading.
Greg McKenzie
West Coast, USA
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
10:07 a.m.
New subject: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance
Bruce Hamilton's excellent one-pager on how experienced dancers can best
help <http://www.portlandcountrydance.org/files/When%20Not%20Caller.pdf>newcomers
is worth a read. In fact, it's worth handing out at the dance.
--------------------
Lindsay Morris
CEO, TSMworks
Tel. 1-859-539-9900
lindsay(a)tsmworks.com
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 9:54 AM, rich sbardella <richsbardella(a)snet.net>wrote;wrote:
Greg wrote:
...But that's a lot of words to cram in at the very end of the dance
phrase. If the dance started with "Balance and swing" for example, I could
fit in the word "Balance" which only takes one beat.
I'm thinking of just dropping the dance from my repertoire.
There would be a lot of dances to drop. A square dance caller might say
Pass thru and Dosi Next. It easily fits in, takes a syllable out and
dancers hear Dosi as Dosido. In walkthrough you could explain your call if
needed.
Rich Sbardella
________________________________
From: Greg McKenzie <grekenzie(a)gmail.com>
To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 5:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Callers] Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance
Dave wrote:
Logistically, I think Greg's approach is
difficult to make work. There's
always a new move happening after the pass through, so in effect, you'll
be
calling four beats of "pass through,
something something," usually
"balance
here" or whatnot. Because there's no
break between the instruction "pass
through" and the instruction that follows it, I don't think dancers
generally realize from that phrasing that the pass through is intended to
occur after exactly six beats of the circle.
You are absolutely correct Dave! Structuring calls precisely is often very
difficult and I sometimes simply drop a dance because the prompts become
too jumbled when actually given at the correct beat. I posted to this
thread because I was, coincidentally, working on a dance called Kiss the
Bride by Jeffery Spero.
Kiss the Bride is particularly difficult because it uses the circle 3/4,
pass through transition at the end and the last call I need to fit in is
"dosido" which takes two beats. Because it is where the progression takes
place I also want to say "With the NEXT" to make that clear as well. On my
current dance card I "solved" the problem by giving the "Pass
Through" call
early. That is unacceptable to me and I was trying to come up with a good
way to make it work using calls that are precisely in time with the
phrasing.
My current card reads:
B2: _ _ _ _ [Hands Four and] Circle RIGHT!
_ [Three Places], Pass Through, with the NEXT Dosido
To fix the timing I'm considering something like:
B2: _ _ _ _ [Hands Four and] Circle RIGHT!
_ _ [Three Places], Pass Through, NEXT Dosido
...But that's a lot of words to cram in at the very end of the dance
phrase. If the dance started with "Balance and swing" for example, I could
fit in the word "Balance" which only takes one beat.
I'm thinking of just dropping the dance from my repertoire.
Thanks for reading.
Greg McKenzie
West Coast, USA
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
11:08 a.m.
New subject: Tactile adjustment (was Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance)
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014, Lindsay Morris wrote:
Bruce Hamilton's excellent one-pager on how experienced dancers can best
help <http://www.portlandcountrydance.org/files/When%20Not%20Caller.pdf>newcomers
is worth a read. In fact, it's worth handing out at the dance.
Worth a read, yes; worth handing out, not sure. I vehemently disagree
with the injunction against touching -- anyone want to defend it?
--
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/
<*> <*> <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
11:57 a.m.
New subject: Tactile adjustment (was Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance)
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 08:08:07 -0800, Aahz Maruch wrote:
Worth a read, yes; worth handing out, not sure. I
vehemently
disagree with the injunction against touching -- anyone want to
defend it?
I think you need to distinguish between a touch which is part of the
dance and one which isn't. If we're doing a circle left or lines
forward and back and I can sense that my neighbour has forgotten to do
the ladies' chain I will urge her forward. That's very different from
grabbing someone on the other side of the set and pulling them to
where they should be.
Colin Hume
11:58 a.m.
New subject: Tactile adjustment (was Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance)
First you have to define the term touching on the dance floor. Many people do not like to
manhandled through a move to show them how it flows whether it's the call of not.
Even just a re-direction by pushing their shoulder or arm can intimidate or embarrass
them. When teaching as the caller and a single dancer is completely lost, I tend to
ignore it and let them work it out during the dance. If several dancers are having the
same issue, I may ask one of them if it's okay to follow them through the figure and
redirect them if necessary. They become the demonstration set and everyone cheers when it
finally works. But I still try to do that type of intervention rarely.
Harold
-----Original Message-----
From: callers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net [mailto:callers-bounces@sharedweight.net] On Behalf
Of Aahz Maruch
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 10:08 AM
To: callers(a)sharedweight.net
Subject: Re: [Callers] Tactile adjustment (was Circle & pass through as the last move
of a dance)
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014, Lindsay Morris wrote:
Bruce Hamilton's excellent one-pager on how experienced dancers can
best help
<http://www.portlandcountrydance.org/files/When%20Not%20Caller.pdf>new
comers is worth a read. In fact, it's worth handing out at the dance.
Worth a read, yes; worth handing out, not sure. I vehemently disagree with the injunction
against touching -- anyone want to defend it?
--
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/
<*> <*> <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
12:29 p.m.
New subject: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance
Thanks Lindsay. This piece is excellent. It highlights the nonverbal
teaching that is central to community dance.
- Greg McKenzie
West Coast, USA
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 7:07 AM, Lindsay Morris <lindsay(a)tsmworks.com>wrote;wrote:
Bruce Hamilton's excellent one-pager on how
experienced dancers can best
help <http://www.portlandcountrydance.org/files/When%20Not%20Caller.pdf
very
newcomers
is worth a read. In fact,
it's worth handing out at the dance.
--------------------
Lindsay Morris
CEO, TSMworks
Tel. 1-859-539-9900
lindsay(a)tsmworks.com
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 9:54 AM, rich sbardella <richsbardella(a)snet.net
wrote:
Greg wrote:
...But that's a lot of words to cram in at the very end of the dance
phrase. If the dance started with "Balance and swing" for example, I
could
fit in the word "Balance" which only
takes one beat.
I'm thinking of just dropping the dance from my repertoire.
There would be a lot of dances to drop. A square dance caller might say
Pass thru and Dosi Next. It easily fits in, takes a syllable out and
dancers hear Dosi as Dosido. In walkthrough you could explain your call
if
needed.
Rich Sbardella
________________________________
From: Greg McKenzie <grekenzie(a)gmail.com>
To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 5:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Callers] Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance
Dave wrote:
> Logistically, I think Greg's approach is difficult to make work.
There's
> always a new move happening after the pass
through, so in effect,
you'll
be
"pass
calling four beats of "pass through,
something something," usually
"balance
> here" or whatnot. Because there's no break between the instruction > through" and the instruction that
follows it, I don't think dancers
> generally realize from that phrasing that the pass through is intended
to
occur
after exactly six beats of the circle.
You are absolutely correct Dave! Structuring calls precisely is often difficult and I sometimes simply drop a dance
because the prompts become
too jumbled when actually given at the correct beat. I posted to this
thread because I was, coincidentally, working on a dance called Kiss the
Bride by Jeffery Spero.
Kiss the Bride is particularly difficult because it uses the circle 3/4,
pass through transition at the end and the last call I need to fit in is
"dosido" which takes two beats. Because it is where the progression
takes
place I also want to say "With the
NEXT" to make that clear as well. On
my
current dance card I "solved" the
problem by giving the "Pass Through"
call
early. That is unacceptable to me and I was
trying to come up with a
good
way to make it work using calls that are
precisely in time with the
phrasing.
My current card reads:
B2: _ _ _ _ [Hands Four and] Circle RIGHT!
_ [Three Places], Pass Through, with the NEXT Dosido
To fix the timing I'm considering something like:
B2: _ _ _ _ [Hands Four and] Circle RIGHT!
_ _ [Three Places], Pass Through, NEXT Dosido
...But that's a lot of words to cram in at the very end of the dance
phrase. If the dance started with "Balance and swing" for example, I
could
fit in the word "Balance" which only
takes one beat.
I'm thinking of just dropping the dance from my repertoire.
Thanks for reading.
Greg McKenzie
West Coast, USA
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
12:38 p.m.
New subject: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance
When I indicated I might drop a dance because of a complex string of calls
Rich wrote:
There would be a lot of dances to drop. A square
dance caller might say
Pass thru and Dosi Next. It easily fits in, takes a syllable out and
dancers hear Dosi as Dosido. In walkthrough you could explain your call if
needed.
Good suggestion! (Those square dance callers know stuff!) Using "Dosi" as
Dosido is a great idea, though I would not use it in a dance with the first
dosido of the evening. I would, of course, use a more effective word
order and say:
"Pass thru to NEXT and Dosi."
- Greg
6:27 p.m.
New subject: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance
On Feb 11, 2014, at 2:53 PM, Greg Mcenzie wrote, concerning the
dance "Kiss the Bride" by Jeff Spero" (see _Southern California
Twirls_ or http://www.quiteapair.us/calling/acdol/dance/acd_81.html
for instructions):
Kiss the Bride is particularly difficult because it
uses the circle
3/4,
pass through transition at the end and the last call I need to fit
in is
"dosido" which takes two beats. Because it is where the progression
takes
place I also want to say "With the NEXT" to make that clear as
well. On my
current dance card I "solved" the problem by giving the "Pass
Through" call
early. That is unacceptable to me and I was trying to come up with
a good
way to make it work using calls that are precisely in time with the
phrasing.
I will beg to differ with Greg on two points.
First, I see no point in urging dancers to brisk circling in cases
where the action following "circle left 3/4; pass through" gives the
dancers adequate opportunity to make up time if they use 8 beats to
circle left 3/4--as, for example, in "Kiss the Bride", where "circle
left 3/4; pass through" is followed by "new neighbors do-si-do and
swing".
Second, in cases where I think inspiring dancers circle briskly *is*
worthwhile--for example, when "circle left 3/4 (6); pass through (2)" is
followed by "new neighbors balance"--I think it is no sin to finish the
call "pass through" before beat 6 of the circle. In fact, in such
cases, I usually give the call "pass through" on beats 3 and 4.
In illustration of my first point, look at this this video:
http://dancevideos.childgrove.org/contra/contra-modern/235-small-potatoes
The dance is "Small Potatoes" by Jim Kitch (alas, I couldn't find a
video
of "Kiss the Bride"), called by Karen Jackson. The description beside
the video frame gives the B2 of the dance as
(8) Circle left 3/4, pass thru;
(8) Next neighbor do si do
But if you watch what the dancers are doing, you'll see that they're
generally taking eight beats to circle 3/4. You'll also see that they
generally have no trouble completing both the pass through and the
do-si-do in the next eight beats, so that they're ready for the balance
at the beginning of the A1 music. The caller, by the way, utters the
"through" in "pass through" usually on beat 7 of B2, except in the
second round of the dance, where she says "through" on beat 6, and in
the sixth round, where says "pass through" on beats 9 and 10. (By the
sixth round she may have been about the drop that call altogether but
then noticed a few people who seemed still to need a reminder.) There
may be some who would criticize Karen's timing, but when I look at the
video I don't notice even the slightest evidence that the call timing
is giving rise to any awkwardness on the floor.
In illustration of my second point (about calling "pass through" during
beats 3 and 4 of the circle), look at these videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_-uD_-nV6g
(Steve Zakon-Anderson calls a contra medley at the Concord
Scout House. Notice his timing on the third sequence in
the medley, Lisa Greenlef's "After the Solstice", wich
starts around 5:40.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMInHQo4mJY
(Maggie Cowan calls "Black Bird in the Night" by Don
Flaherty.)
My mean reason for giving the call "pass through" on beats 3 and 4 is
that I hope the slightly "early" call will implicitly encourage any
slow circlers to pick up their pace. If you say "pass through" on
beats 5 and 6, it's already too late to help any dancers who haven't
gotten their circles turned 3/4 of the way around by the time you say
"through".
A secondary advantage is that I then have all of beats 5-8 to give
the next call, for example:
go ON to then NEXT; BALance and SWING
or
make NEW VAVES and BALance NOW
or
NEW LAdies ALlemande LEFT
[as in "THe Equal Turn" by Tom Hinds]
etc.
--Jim
7:28 p.m.
New subject: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance
There's another aspect to this discussion; what about when circle L 3/4 and pass
through is the first move in a dance? Many Becket dances begin this way, and I have no
problem with that if the next move is an allemande or a dosido. But when the A1 is circle
L 3/4 and pass through, new neighbor swing, that swing often gets compressed to about 6
beats. Fortunately, Gene Hubert gave us a better alternative:
Butter Becket-L
A1. Slide L and circle L 3/4, neighbor swing
A2. Long lines, ladies chain
B1. Hey (LR, NL, GR, PL)
B2. Partner balance, swing
Here the slide L and circle L is a true 8 beats, and neighbors can used their joined hands
to pull into the swing. Yes, circle and swing is very common, but that's a
programming issue, not a timing issue -
Bob
7:53 p.m.
New subject: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance
On Feb 12, 2014, at 4:28 PM, Bob Isaacs wrote:
... when the A1 [of a Becket dance] is circle L 3/4
and pass
through, new neighbor swing, that swing often gets compressed to
about 6 beats. Fortunately, Gene Hubert gave us a better alternative:
...
A1. Slide L and circle L 3/4, neighbor swing
Instead of "Slide L and circle L", you could also use
(With new neighbors) on the left diagonal, circle L ...
I've somehow gotten the impression that dancers on average find
it a little easier to think about finishing a partner swing (common
as the last move of modern Becket dances) facing new neighbors
on the left diagonal than to think about ending the swing facing
across and then shifting left. Others may disagree, and it may
mainly be a matter of what dancers in a particular community are
used to.
When the call is "on the left diagonal, circle L" there may be
some question about whether to describe the amount of circling
as "3/4" or some other way (e.g., "7/8" or "almost once"),
but
as long as the caller makes the ending position clear ("... until
you're on the side of the set with your neighbor"--adding, if
necessary, that men are on their home side and women are not), I
haven't noticed many dancers having problems with it.
--Jim
13 Feb
13 Feb
10:53 a.m.
New subject: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance
I love the way the Hey is described in the dance below. As a caller that is new to
contra, the notation helps to understand the flow a little better.
Thanks,
Rich
________________________________
From: Bob Isaacs <isaacsbob(a)hotmail.com>
To: Shared Weight <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 7:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Callers] Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance
There's another aspect to this discussion; what about when circle L 3/4 and pass
through is the first move in a dance? Many Becket dances begin this way, and I have no
problem with that if the next move is an allemande or a dosido. But when the A1 is circle
L 3/4 and pass through, new neighbor swing, that swing often gets compressed to about 6
beats. Fortunately, Gene Hubert gave us a better alternative:
Butter Becket-L
A1. Slide L and circle L 3/4, neighbor swing
A2. Long lines, ladies chain
B1. Hey (LR, NL, GR, PL)
B2. Partner balance, swing
Here the slide L and circle L is a true 8 beats, and neighbors can used their joined hands
to pull into the swing. Yes, circle and swing is very common, but that's a
programming issue, not a timing issue -
Bob
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
11:47 a.m.
New subject: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance
On 2/13/2014 7:53 AM, rich sbardella wrote:
I love the way the Hey is described in the dance
below. As a caller that is new to contra, the notation helps to understand the flow a
little better.
Thanks,
Rich
Snip >>>
B1. Hey (LR, NL, GR, PL)
When I first looked at
this, I had to get away from "Left Right" to
"Ladies Right." I'd write: (WR, NL, MR, PL). Then looking at this, one
need note this is a half-hey. I suppose the person jotting this down
knows that, but for the rest of us, adding a X2 could help. Then to be
explicit, one has to leave out the last PL. Thus to be totally accurate
it's:
(WR, NL, MR, PL, WR, NL, MR)
Which is common, and only 7/8ths of a full hey...
~erik hoffman
oakland, ca
15 Feb
15 Feb
7:12 p.m.
New subject: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance
Thanks Erik,
Your comments were helpful. I use Ladies and Gents so I connected, but your annotation
will help avid left/right confusion. Is there a standard annotation for calls, and where
do I find it?
Rich
________________________________
From: Erik Hoffman <erik(a)erikhoffman.com>
To: rich sbardella <richsbardella(a)snet.net>et>; Caller's discussion list
<callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 11:47 AM
Subject: Re: [Callers] Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance
On 2/13/2014 7:53 AM, rich sbardella wrote:
I love the way the Hey is described in the dance
below. As a caller that is new to contra, the notation helps to understand the flow a
little better.
Thanks,
Rich
Snip >>>
B1. Hey (LR, NL, GR, PL)
When I first looked at
this, I had to get away from "Left Right" to "Ladies Right." I'd
write: (WR, NL, MR, PL). Then looking at this, one need note this is a half-hey. I suppose
the person jotting this down knows that, but for the rest of us, adding a X2 could help.
Then to be explicit, one has to leave out the last PL. Thus to be totally accurate
it's:
(WR, NL, MR, PL, WR, NL, MR)
Which is common, and only 7/8ths of a full hey...
~erik hoffman
oakland, ca
7:18 p.m.
New subject: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance
was avid (avoid) a Freudian slip?
________________________________
From: rich sbardella <richsbardella(a)snet.net>
To: Erik Hoffman <erik(a)erikhoffman.com>om>; Caller's discussion list
<callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2014 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Callers] Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance
Thanks Erik,
Your comments were helpful. I use Ladies and Gents so I connected, but your annotation
will help avid left/right confusion. Is there a standard annotation for calls, and where
do I find it?
Rich
________________________________
From: Erik Hoffman <erik(a)erikhoffman.com>
To: rich sbardella <richsbardella(a)snet.net>et>; Caller's discussion list
<callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 11:47 AM
Subject: Re: [Callers] Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance
On 2/13/2014 7:53 AM, rich sbardella wrote:
I love the way the Hey is described in the dance
below. As a caller that is new to contra, the notation helps to understand the flow a
little better.
Thanks,
Rich
Snip >>>
B1. Hey (LR, NL, GR, PL)
When I first looked at
this, I had to get away from "Left Right" to "Ladies Right." I'd
write: (WR, NL, MR, PL). Then looking at this, one need note this is a half-hey. I suppose
the person jotting this down knows that, but for the rest of us, adding a X2 could help.
Then to be explicit, one has to leave out the last PL. Thus to be totally accurate
it's:
(WR, NL, MR, PL, WR, NL, MR)
Which is common, and only 7/8ths of a full hey...
~erik hoffman
oakland, ca
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
17 Feb
17 Feb
7:53 p.m.
New subject: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance
As was annunciation (enunciation), perhaps:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annunciation :P
On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 7:18 PM, rich sbardella <richsbardella(a)snet.net>wrote;wrote:
was avid (avoid) a Freudian slip?
________________________________
From: rich sbardella <richsbardella(a)snet.net>
To: Erik Hoffman <erik(a)erikhoffman.com>om>; Caller's discussion list <
callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2014 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Callers] Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance
Thanks Erik,
Your comments were helpful. I use Ladies and Gents so I connected, but
your annotation will help avid left/right confusion. Is there a standard
annotation for calls, and where do I find it?
Rich
________________________________
From: Erik Hoffman <erik(a)erikhoffman.com>
To: rich sbardella <richsbardella(a)snet.net>et>; Caller's discussion list <
callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 11:47 AM
Subject: Re: [Callers] Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance
On 2/13/2014 7:53 AM, rich sbardella wrote:
I love the way the Hey is described in the dance
below. As a caller
that is new to contra, the notation helps to understand the
flow a little
better.
Thanks,
Rich
Snip >>>
B1. Hey (LR, NL, GR, PL)
When I first
looked at this, I had to get away from "Left Right" to
"Ladies Right." I'd write: (WR, NL, MR, PL). Then looking at this, one
need
note this is a half-hey. I suppose the person jotting this down knows that,
but for the rest of us, adding a X2 could help. Then to be explicit, one
has to leave out the last PL. Thus to be totally accurate it's:
(WR, NL, MR, PL, WR, NL, MR)
Which is common, and only 7/8ths of a full hey...
~erik hoffman
oakland, ca
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
12 Feb
12 Feb
9:47 p.m.
New subject: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance
James,
Thanks for your studied reply to my post.
Jim wrote:
First, I see no point in urging dancers to brisk
circling in cases
where the action following "circle left 3/4; pass through" gives the
dancers adequate opportunity to make up time...
I agree with the suggestion of urging dancers to circle briskly. It's a
short, quick comment that can help. My concern was in structuring my calls
so that they match the timing of the dance precisely. My goal is to teach
the dancers that my calls contain reliable information about the timing of
the dance.
Second, in cases where I think inspiring dancers circle briskly *is*
worthwhile--for example, when "circle left 3/4
(6); pass through (2)" is
followed by "new neighbors balance"--I think it is no sin to finish the
call "pass through" before beat 6 of the circle. In fact, in such
cases, I usually give the call "pass through" on beats 3 and 4.
That seems to be what most callers do in this case. That's what I was
doing...until I resolved to fix the structure of my calls to match the
actual dance timing.
It is not a "sin" to call early. Nor is it a "sin" to attempt to
teach the
timing of the dance with verbal instructions. What I hope to avoid is
standing before a mixed crowd of dancers. Asking an excellent band to hold
their music. And asking a wonderful dance community to hold off on their
social interactions and listen patiently while I attempt to explain the
timing of the dance verbally with counted beats, steps, or whatever. Then,
when the music begins, to embarrass myself by giving my calls either early
or late. And that is why I asked for help here.
And I got some very good suggestions. Hopefully I can now call the dance
with more confidence and the dancers will feel more confidence because my
calls are consistent with the timing of the dance.
The dancers in your video look like a competent group of regulars who are
able to adapt to poorly-structured calls quickly and graciously. I'm sure
they have a lot of practice at it. I find it very productive to be more
diligent in my own calling.
Well-structured calling is not easy. It does however make a subtle but
significant difference in how confident the dancers feel--particularly at
open, public social events. That is why I structure my calls carefully and
write the calls out verbatim on my cards. That is also why I advocate for
callers at open public contra dances to use dance cards when calling.
Making up calls on the fly often puts the onus on the dancers to get the
timing right.
- Greg McKenzie
West Coast, USA
13 Feb
13 Feb
1:54 a.m.
New subject: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014, Greg McKenzie wrote:
Well-structured calling is not easy. It does however make a subtle but
significant difference in how confident the dancers feel--particularly at
open, public social events. That is why I structure my calls carefully and
write the calls out verbatim on my cards. That is also why I advocate for
callers at open public contra dances to use dance cards when calling.
Making up calls on the fly often puts the onus on the dancers to get the
timing right.
While I don't particularly disagree with you, particularly for me at this
stage in my calling career, I do find it interesting that your advice to
avoid making up calls on the fly is almost universally ignored by MWSD
callers -- and with the majority of square dance callers (which is to
say, almost all the good ones), it's not the dancers who face the onus of
getting the timing right.
--
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/
<*> <*> <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
2:32 a.m.
New subject: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance
On 2/12/2014 10:54 PM, Aahz Maruch wrote:
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014, Greg McKenzie wrote:
Aahz, when Greg says "callers at open public contra dances" he really,
really means it. The MWSD world is almost the
opposite of what he's talking about. I:f you can figure that anyone at
your dance has been to classes and knows figures,
you can do a lot differently.
Greg's idea is that at OPCD, anybody can walk through the door, receive
no lesson from a caller, and be swept up by the experienced dancers (eg,
anyone who's ever done it before); the caller needs to avoid it making
it unattractive for experienced dancers to dance with newcomers (eg,
running dances a shorter time so that experienced dancers will know
they're not making a huge time commitment if they dance with a
newcomer), conveying the dance with effective word order and perfect
timing, and pretty much not teaching anything, leaving that up to the
experienced dancers.
MWSD caller responsibility: Call an entertaining program at whatever
level the dance is advertised to be that works for the people there.
OPCD caller responsibility: Integrate the floor as much as possible and
stay out of the way of the teaching that's happening on the floor.
(Greg, is that fair?)
-- Alan
Well-structured calling is not easy. It does
however make a subtle but
significant difference in how confident the dancers feel--particularly at
open, public social events. That is why I structure my calls carefully and
write the calls out verbatim on my cards. That is also why I advocate for
callers at open public contra dances to use dance cards when calling.
Making up calls on the fly often puts the onus on the dancers to get the
timing right.
While I don't particularly disagree with you, particularly for
me at this
stage in my calling career, I do find it interesting that your advice to
avoid making up calls on the fly is almost universally ignored by MWSD
callers -- and with the majority of square dance callers (which is to
say, almost all the good ones), it's not the dancers who face the onus of
getting the timing right.
9:01 a.m.
New subject: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014, Alan Winston wrote:
On 2/12/2014 10:54 PM, Aahz Maruch wrote:
Yuck. ;-) And I'm speaking with my contra dancer hat.
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014, Greg McKenzie wrote:
Aahz, when Greg says "callers at open public contra dances" he really,
really means it. The MWSD world is almost the opposite of what he's
talking about. I:f you can figure that anyone at your dance has been
to classes and knows figures, you can do a lot differently.
Greg's idea is that at OPCD, anybody can walk through the door,
receive no lesson from a caller, and be swept up by the experienced
dancers (eg, anyone who's ever done it before); the caller needs to
avoid it making it unattractive for experienced dancers to dance with
newcomers (eg, running dances a shorter time so that experienced
dancers will know they're not making a huge time commitment if they
dance with a newcomer), conveying the dance with effective word order
and perfect timing, and pretty much not teaching anything, leaving
that up to the experienced dancers.
Well-structured calling is not easy. It does however make a subtle but
significant difference in how confident the dancers feel--particularly at
open, public social events. That is why I structure my calls carefully and
write the calls out verbatim on my cards. That is also why I advocate for
callers at open public contra dances to use dance cards when calling.
Making up calls on the fly often puts the onus on the dancers to get the
timing right.
While I don't particularly disagree with you, particularly for me at this
stage in my calling career, I do find it interesting that your advice to
avoid making up calls on the fly is almost universally ignored by MWSD
callers -- and with the majority of square dance callers (which is to
say, almost all the good ones), it's not the dancers who face the onus of
getting the timing right. MWSD caller responsibility: Call an entertaining
program at whatever
level the dance is advertised to be that works for the people there.
OPCD caller responsibility: Integrate the floor as much as possible
and stay out of the way of the teaching that's happening on the
floor.
(Greg, is that fair?)
Assuming that it is fair, my point still stands, particularly given the
need for experienced dancers with Greg's approach. I've been to square
dances classes as an "angel" (experienced dancer to seed the crowd, which
is a standard component of square dance classes), and a good square dance
teacher is still going to be doing singing calls on the fly, with proper
timing, adjusting to the class that they have, relying on the angels for
a lot of the instruction/guidance.
I also wonder to what extent this has any relationship to the fact that
square dance callers are statistically considerably better than contra
callers at enunciating. That is, with my hearing impairment (deaf with
cochlear implant), I often hear square dance callers better over the
music than I do contra callers without music during the walkthrough.
(I'm entirely amenable to the possibility that the sound system has
something to do with this, but it's something I have noticed across a
large number of different halls and callers, so if the sound system has
significant effect, it's something that is "standard" for contra sound
setup.)
All of which is a roundabout way of wondering what we as contra callers
can learn from square dance callers.
--
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/
<*> <*> <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
11:40 a.m.
New subject: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance
At the end of Ahz's comments:
All of which is a roundabout way of wondering what we
as contra
callers can learn from square dance callers.
Probably a lot. And they from us, since they often use records, which
are dynamically more "normalized" than live people playing live music...
But the point is clear: many of us would benefit from voice lessons and
practice at theatrical enunciation. I'm calling a teacher today...
~erik hoffman
oakland, ca
15 Feb
15 Feb
7:15 p.m.
New subject: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance
The best advice I received at "caller's college"was to open my mouth wide,
exaggerate the words (annunciation?), and the movement of my mouth, and to practice is a
mirror.
Rich
________________________________
From: Erik Hoffman <erik(a)erikhoffman.com>
To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Callers] Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance
At the end of Ahz's comments:
All of which is a roundabout way of wondering what we
as contra callers can learn from square dance callers.
Probably a lot. And they from us, since they often use records, which are dynamically more
"normalized" than live people playing live music...
But the point is clear: many of us would benefit from voice lessons and practice at
theatrical enunciation. I'm calling a teacher today...
~erik hoffman
oakland, ca
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
19 Feb
19 Feb
9:22 p.m.
New subject: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance
On 2/13/2014 8:40 AM, Erik Hoffman wrote:
At the end of Ahz's comments:
Since you mention it, and since you're in the SF Bay Area, my sister (in
SF) teaches vocal technique for radio and voice-over actors. She's a
casting agent and thus has reason to want more people in the Bay Area
who can speak clearly and compellingly. Might be interesting to have a
chat with her about ways to be clearer on mic over a noisy room.
Kalia
All of which is a roundabout way of wondering
what we as contra
callers can learn from square dance callers.
Probably a lot. And they from us, since they often use records, which
are dynamically more "normalized" than live people playing live music...
But the point is clear: many of us would benefit from voice lessons and
practice at theatrical enunciation. I'm calling a teacher today...
13 Feb
13 Feb
1:39 p.m.
New subject: Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance)
Greg can correct me if I'm wrong, but when he refers to "making
up calls on the fly", I don't think he's referring to making up
choreograph on the fly. I think he's talking about the situation
where a caller has chosen a dance with fixed choreography but is
deciding on the fly what words to use in calling it and what beats
to say them on.
Let me explain by giving some examples. (And again, Greg can
comment if I'm misrepresenting him.)
If someone were to hand me a dance card with simple figures like
A1. Neighbors bal & sw
A2. Fwd and bk
W chain
I'm confident I could come up with appropriate and accurately timed
calls on the fly. I could even adjust them on the fly depending on
what I saw happening on the dance floor. For example, early in the
dance, I might use a 4-beat call like
in LONG LINES go FORward and BACK
After the dance was going a while, I might reduce it to a 2-beat call
FORward and BACK
for a while before dropping out entirely. If, for some reason, many
dancers were having trouble ending the swing on time, I might make
the call longer to allow more reaction time, for example
and WHEN you've SWUNG, make LONG LINES; go FORward and BACK
In each case, I'd know where to start the call (e.g., on beat 13 of
A1 for a 4-beat call, beat 15 for a 2-beat call, or beat 11 for a
6-beat call). And if the phrasing of the music was clear, I could
identify the correct starting beat for the call without explicitly
counting to myself.
I think many (most?) of you reading this are similarly able to call
such simple sequences with accurate timing and without needing to
have calls written out verbatim,
But what happens when we get to a dance that has several short moves
in succession, as for example in the B2 part of "Batja's Breakdown"
or of "Southern Swing"?
From "Batja's Breakdown" by Tom Hinds:
B2. Pass through to an ocean wave (4)
Balance the wave (4)
Neighbors allemande right 1/2; men allemande left 1/2;
partners allemande right 3/4 and look for your shadow (8)
From "Southern Swing" by Steve Zakon-Anderson:
B2. Women allemande right 1x, partners pull by* left hand, men
pull by* right hand; neighbors allemande left 1 1/4 to
meet new neighbor.
[*In place of "pull by left [or right]", I've also seen the
dance
notated with "pass by left [right]" or with "allemande L [R]
1/2".]
In this sort of situation, it may not be so easy to come up with clear,
accurately-timed calls on the fly. If you try to say for each move
who does it (partners/neighbors/men/women), what the move is (e.g.,
allemande), which hand to use, and how far to go, there simply may
not be enough time to squeeze it all in without starting to call
late. So you have to decide what to leave out. Maybe you can
sometimes leave out the word "allemande" (or even "turn") because
the dancers know from the walk-through that the dance ends with a
sequence of hand turns. Maybe you can count on the dancers to remember
that they use alternating hands (or shoulders). Maybe dancers can
infer how far to turn once you tell them who they have to meet for the
next action. Or, on the other hand, maybe there are points in the
sequence where it will really help dancers if you explicitly say one
of those things that you might have hoped dancers would be able to
remember (from the walk through) or infer on their own.
In any case, you must somehow decide what words to include in your
calling (and in what order) and what to leave out. You could just
lead a walk-through, signal the band to start, watch the dancers, and
trust that the appropriate and well-timed words to help them through
the dance will come into your brain and out of your mouth. But if you
do so, you may find that your first try isn't so great and that it
takes you a few repeats of the dance to refine it. Those first few
rounds of the dance, however, are the ones where dancers would most
benefit from clear and well-timed calling, both to guide them through
the figures with the right timing and to get the feeling of the right
timing into their memory for the rest of the dance.
Greg's suggestion (as I understand it) is that you plan the exact
wording and timing of the calls in advance and have them written on
the dance card. He might (I'm not sure) carry this idea further
and advocate writing out exact call wording/timing even for simple
sequences like the one I gave near the beginning of this message
A1. Neighbors bal & sw
A2. Fwd and bk
W chain
He might even recommend (again, I'm not sure) that callers use a
notation based on the words and timing of the calls, rather than on
the timing of the figures, as the primary notation (or even the sole
notation) on their dance cards. (And one more time, let me emphasize
that I don't really know how far Greg goes in this direction. Only
he can tell us for sure.)
--Jim
On Feb 12, 2014, at 11:32 PM, Alan Winston wrote:
On 2/12/2014 10:54 PM, Aahz Maruch wrote:
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014, Greg McKenzie wrote:
Aahz, when Greg says "callers at open public contra dances" he
really, really means it. The MWSD world is almost the
opposite of what he's talking about. I:f you can figure that anyone
at your dance has been to classes and knows figures,
you can do a lot differently.
Greg's idea is that at OPCD, anybody can walk through the door,
receive no lesson from a caller, and be swept up by the experienced
dancers (eg, anyone who's ever done it before); the caller needs to
avoid it making it unattractive for experienced dancers to dance
with newcomers (eg, running dances a shorter time so that
experienced dancers will know they're not making a huge time
commitment if they dance with a newcomer), conveying the dance with
effective word order and perfect timing, and pretty much not
teaching anything, leaving that up to the experienced dancers.
MWSD caller responsibility: Call an entertaining program at whatever
level the dance is advertised to be that works for the people there.
OPCD caller responsibility: Integrate the floor as much as possible
and stay out of the way of the teaching that's happening on the floor.
(Greg, is that fair?)
-- Alan
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers Well-structured calling is not easy. It does
however make a
subtle but
significant difference in how confident the dancers feel--
particularly at
open, public social events. That is why I structure my calls
carefully and
write the calls out verbatim on my cards. That is also why I
advocate for
callers at open public contra dances to use dance cards when
calling.
Making up calls on the fly often puts the onus on the dancers to
get the
timing right.
While I don't particularly disagree with you, particularly for
me
at this
stage in my calling career, I do find it interesting that your
advice to
avoid making up calls on the fly is almost universally ignored by
MWSD
callers -- and with the majority of square dance callers (which is to
say, almost all the good ones), it's not the dancers who face the
onus of
getting the timing right.
2:03 p.m.
New subject: Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance)
On 2/13/2014 12:39 PM, James Saxe wrote:
In any case, you must somehow decide what words to
include in your
calling (and in what order) and what to leave out. You could just
lead a walk-through, signal the band to start, watch the dancers, and
trust that the appropriate and well-timed words to help them through
the dance will come into your brain and out of your mouth. But if you
do so, you may find that your first try isn't so great and that it
takes you a few repeats of the dance to refine it. Those first few
rounds of the dance, however, are the ones where dancers would most
benefit from clear and well-timed calling, both to guide them through
the figures with the right timing and to get the feeling of the right
timing into their memory for the rest of the dance.
I like to change around the exact words I use during a dance. In
part to keep myself and the dancers alert. Also if a given phrase
doesn't work for someone then the next time through if I say something
slightly different it may make more sense for them. Also if some part
of the dance seems to be causing problems for some of the dancers I may
change the words I'm using in order to, hopefully, help them out. This
may be as simple as interchanging "Long Lines Forward and Back", with
"Long Lines" and "Forward and Back", or as complex as adding in words
to
tell in more detail who to do the next figure with, or which hand to use
or whatever. I can't think of a specific example at the moment, but I
know that I do this all of the time and it isn't something that I plan
ahead of time.
I do like to work out economical phrases for complex sequences of
figures as you mention, but I also like to keep my options open to allow
additional words where needed.
Jonathan
-----
Jonathan Sivier
Caller of Contra, English and Early American Dances
jsivier AT illinois DOT edu
Dance Page: http://www.sivier.me/dance_leader.html
-----
Q: How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
A: It depends on what dance you call!
4:34 p.m.
New subject: Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance)
On Thu, Feb 13, 2014, Jonathan Sivier wrote:
I like to change around the exact words I use during a dance. In
part to keep myself and the dancers alert. Also if a given phrase
doesn't work for someone then the next time through if I say something
slightly different it may make more sense for them. Also if some part
of the dance seems to be causing problems for some of the dancers I
may change the words I'm using in order to, hopefully, help them out.
Does anyone have evidence that dancers pay attention to the caller after
the first few iterations? I certainly don't, and my limited experience
as a caller indicates that few do (if any).
--
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/
<*> <*> <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
4:45 p.m.
New subject: Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance)
If one is calling to help clarify then "yes", the dancers listen as evidenced by
them dancing correctly. I think new dancers need this most, but experienced dancers might
need a reminder when their brains wander.
If one is calling just to call (some callers don't know when to stop) then
"no"...the dancers tune the caller out once they have the groove. (I know I do)
however if their brains wander... (see first paragraph)
However, as a caller I am constantly watching to see if the newbies are going to need a
reminder when they meet in the line, and if the band changes tunes sometimes I jump in
calling again if the dancers need help with the phrasing of the new tune.
Donna Hunt
-----Original Message-----
From: Aahz Maruch <aahz(a)pobox.com>
To: callers <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Sent: Thu, Feb 13, 2014 4:34 pm
Subject: Re: [Callers] Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: Circle
& pass through as the last move of a dance)
On Thu, Feb 13, 2014, Jonathan Sivier wrote:
I like to change around the exact words I use during a dance. In
part to keep myself and the dancers alert. Also if a given phrase
doesn't work for someone then the next time through if I say something
slightly different it may make more sense for them. Also if some part
of the dance seems to be causing problems for some of the dancers I
may change the words I'm using in order to, hopefully, help them out.
Does anyone have evidence that dancers pay attention to the caller after
the first few iterations? I certainly don't, and my limited experience
as a caller indicates that few do (if any).
--
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/
<*> <*> <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
5:16 p.m.
New subject: Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance)
I know most our dancers are still listening because if I ever lose my place and miss-call
the next figure, half will try to do what I said (usually the beginners) and the other
half will loudly pronounce the correct move. When I do booboo, after the dance I always
compliment the dancers on their masterful recovery, even if they didn't have one.
I also try to drop out as early as practical. It's usually as switch from full
calling to single words, and finally to maybe a word once every 32 bars at a place that
may have tricky timing or to get everyone back in sync with each other.
........Circle left
.......Neighbor swing
...Long lines forward and back
...Ladies allemande right 1-1/2
To
........Circle
........Neighbor
......Forward and back
........Ladies
Harold
-----Original Message-----
From: callers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net [mailto:callers-bounces@sharedweight.net] On Behalf
Of Aahz Maruch
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 3:35 PM
To: callers(a)sharedweight.net
Subject: Re: [Callers] Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: Circle
& pass through as the last move of a dance)
On Thu, Feb 13, 2014, Jonathan Sivier wrote:
I like to change around the exact words I use during a dance. In
part to keep myself and the dancers alert. Also if a given phrase
doesn't work for someone then the next time through if I say something
slightly different it may make more sense for them. Also if some part
of the dance seems to be causing problems for some of the dancers I
may change the words I'm using in order to, hopefully, help them out.
Does anyone have evidence that dancers pay attention to the caller after the first few
iterations? I certainly don't, and my limited experience as a caller indicates that
few do (if any).
--
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/
<*> <*> <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
14 Feb
14 Feb
1:09 p.m.
New subject: Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance)
I attended a well established open contra dance recently with at least 50% newbies. The
caller did an excellent job teaching and calling contras, but his method was more like a
square dance caller. He seldom stopped calling and had lots of descriptive words for the
dancers. Several dancers throughout the night told me how easy it was to dance to this
caller, and how good his calls were. I did not hear one complaint from the dancers, or
musicians, that he never stopped calling. Additionally, the caller went out of his way
several times to bring the attention to the excellent musicians playing beside him. The
dance was very successful, and the caller (calls) very entertaining.
There are few callers capable of delivering that kind of program, and even fewer who do.
It was a welcomed change for me, and for many of the dancers at the event.
Rich Sbardella
Stafford, CT
________________________________
From: Harold E. Watson <hwatson(a)uark.edu>
To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Callers] Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: Circle
& pass through as the last move of a dance)
I know most our dancers are still listening because if I ever lose my place and miss-call
the next figure, half will try to do what I said (usually the beginners) and the other
half will loudly pronounce the correct move. When I do booboo, after the dance I always
compliment the dancers on their masterful recovery, even if they didn't have one.
I also try to drop out as early as practical. It's usually as switch from full
calling to single words, and finally to maybe a word once every 32 bars at a place that
may have tricky timing or to get everyone back in sync with each other.
........Circle left
.......Neighbor swing
...Long lines forward and back
...Ladies allemande right 1-1/2
To
........Circle
........Neighbor
......Forward and back
........Ladies
Harold
-----Original Message-----
From: callers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net [mailto:callers-bounces@sharedweight.net] On Behalf
Of Aahz Maruch
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 3:35 PM
To: callers(a)sharedweight.net
Subject: Re: [Callers] Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: Circle
& pass through as the last move of a dance)
On Thu, Feb 13, 2014, Jonathan Sivier wrote:
I like to change around the exact words I use during a dance. In
part to keep myself and the dancers alert. Also if a given phrase
doesn't work for someone then the next time through if I say something
slightly different it may make more sense for them. Also if some part
of the dance seems to be causing problems for some of the dancers I
may change the words I'm using in order to, hopefully, help them out.
Does anyone have evidence that dancers pay attention to the caller after the first few
iterations? I certainly don't, and my limited experience as a caller indicates that
few do (if any).
--
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/
<*> <*> <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
2:01 p.m.
New subject: Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance)
I agree with Rich, that, when the need arises, calling all the way
through is good. It's even better when the caller is entertaining, which
Rich's description, below, seems to indicate.
That word, entertainment, deserves some attention. A caller that calls
in tune, is far more entertaining than one who chants out of tune. A
caller who has a sense of rhythm, and can adjust her calls to the rhythm
of the band also brings a sense of entertainment. And, a caller who has
a number of ways to describe movements can add to both the understanding
and the music.
Ways to check this out: Record Yourself & Listen. Record others and
listen. Absorb good ideas. Think about how you might describe things.
Listen to walk-throughs as well as calling with the band. Learn an
instrument. Just spending time with a piano, guitar, fiddle, mandolin,
or even a tuba will give you more of a sense of how the music works.
Take voice lessons, ask trusted people for feedback. Etc.
I'd also say, decide what kind of calling you want to do. Do you want to
call to beginners? Or do you favor calling to experienced dancers?
Squares? Or just contras? All these things may help you focus on the
particular needs of that type of calling.
~erik hoffman
oakland, ca
On 2/14/2014 10:09 AM, rich sbardella wrote:
I attended a well established open contra dance
recently with at least 50% newbies. The caller did an excellent job teaching and calling
contras, but his method was more like a square dance caller. He seldom stopped calling
and had lots of descriptive words for the dancers. Several dancers throughout the night
told me how easy it was to dance to this caller, and how good his calls were. I did not
hear one complaint from the dancers, or musicians, that he never stopped calling.
Additionally, the caller went out of his way several times to bring the attention to the
excellent musicians playing beside him. The dance was very successful, and the caller
(calls) very entertaining.
There are few callers capable of delivering that kind of program, and even fewer who do.
It was a welcomed change for me, and for many of the dancers at the event.
Rich Sbardella
Stafford, CT
11:31 p.m.
New subject: Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance)
Love the musical cadence of a caller.
________________________________
From: rich sbardella <richsbardella(a)snet.net>
To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Sent: Friday, February 14, 2014 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Callers] Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re:
Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance)
I attended a well established open contra dance recently with at least 50% newbies. The
caller did an excellent job teaching and calling contras, but his method was more like a
square dance caller. He seldom stopped calling and had lots of descriptive words for the
dancers. Several dancers throughout the night told me how easy it was to dance to this
caller, and how good his calls were. I did not hear one complaint from the dancers, or
musicians, that he never stopped calling. Additionally, the caller went out of his way
several times to bring the attention to the excellent musicians playing beside him. The
dance was very successful, and the caller (calls) very entertaining.
There are few callers capable of delivering that kind of program, and even fewer who do.
It was a welcomed change for me, and for many of the dancers at the event.
Rich Sbardella
Stafford, CT
________________________________
From: Harold E. Watson <hwatson(a)uark.edu>
To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Callers] Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: Circle
& pass through as the last move of a dance)
I know most our dancers are still listening because if I ever lose my place and miss-call
the next figure, half will try to do what I said (usually the beginners) and the other
half will loudly pronounce the correct move. When I do booboo, after the dance I always
compliment the dancers on their masterful recovery, even if they didn't have one.
I also try to drop out as early as practical. It's usually as switch from full
calling to single words, and finally to maybe a word once every 32 bars at a place that
may have tricky timing or to get everyone back in sync with each other.
........Circle left
.......Neighbor swing
...Long lines forward and back
...Ladies allemande right 1-1/2
To
........Circle
........Neighbor
......Forward and back
........Ladies
Harold
-----Original Message-----
From: callers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net [mailto:callers-bounces@sharedweight.net] On Behalf
Of Aahz Maruch
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 3:35 PM
To: callers(a)sharedweight.net
Subject: Re: [Callers] Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: Circle
& pass through as the last move of a dance)
On Thu, Feb 13, 2014, Jonathan Sivier wrote:
I like to change around the exact words I use during a dance. In
part to keep myself and the dancers alert. Also if a given phrase
doesn't work for someone then the next time through if I say something
slightly different it may make more sense for them. Also if some part
of the dance seems to be causing problems for some of the dancers I
may change the words I'm using in order to, hopefully, help them out.
Does anyone have evidence that dancers pay attention to the caller after the first few
iterations? I certainly don't, and my limited experience as a caller indicates that
few do (if any).
--
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/
<*> <*> <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
15 Feb
15 Feb
12:24 a.m.
New subject: Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance)
Rich wrote:
I attended a well established open contra dance
recently with at least 50%
newbies. The caller did an excellent job teaching and calling contras, but
his method was more like a square dance caller. He seldom stopped calling
and had lots of descriptive words for the dancers. Several dancers
throughout the night told me how easy it was to dance to this caller, and
how good his calls were. I did not hear one complaint from the dancers, or
musicians, that he never stopped calling.
There is definitely a difference in style and preference here. I really
respect a caller who can entertain in this way. But it does not "work" for
me like most of the dances I attend. I come for the music and the people
and I love a caller who facilitates a connection between the music and the
dancers. That is plenty "entertaining" for me. Connecting with the caller
is not so much of a draw for me. If the caller "fills the room" with his
personality and voice...well, I generally start looking for another room.
But, that's just how I roll on this. I like to be an integral part of the
event and feel I have a role in making the connections happen. I don't go
to be entertained by the caller.
Oh...and I don't get any complaints when I call either. Dancers are a very
kind and generous bunch, I think. (And I make it my business to seek out
complaints.)
To each his own.
- Greg Mckenzie
West Coast, USA
*********
Additionally, the caller went out of his way several
times to bring the
attention to the excellent musicians playing beside him. The dance was
very successful, and the caller (calls) very entertaining.
There are few callers capable of delivering that kind of program, and even
fewer who do. It was a welcomed change for me, and for many of the dancers
at the event.
Rich Sbardella
Stafford, CT
________________________________
From: Harold E. Watson <hwatson(a)uark.edu>
To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Callers] Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re:
Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance)
I know most our dancers are still listening because if I ever lose my
place and miss-call the next figure, half will try to do what I said
(usually the beginners) and the other half will loudly pronounce the
correct move. When I do booboo, after the dance I always compliment the
dancers on their masterful recovery, even if they didn't have one.
I also try to drop out as early as practical. It's usually as switch from
full calling to single words, and finally to maybe a word once every 32
bars at a place that may have tricky timing or to get everyone back in sync
with each other.
........Circle left
.......Neighbor swing
...Long lines forward and back
...Ladies allemande right 1-1/2
To
........Circle
........Neighbor
......Forward and back
........Ladies
Harold
-----Original Message-----
From: callers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net [mailto:
callers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of Aahz Maruch
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 3:35 PM
To: callers(a)sharedweight.net
Subject: Re: [Callers] Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re:
Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance)
On Thu, Feb 13, 2014, Jonathan Sivier wrote:
I like to change around the exact words I use during a dance. In
part to keep myself and the dancers alert. Also if a given phrase
doesn't work for someone then the next time through if I say something
slightly different it may make more sense for them. Also if some part
of the dance seems to be causing problems for some of the dancers I
may change the words I'm using in order to, hopefully, help them out.
Does anyone have evidence that dancers pay attention to the caller after
the first few iterations? I certainly don't, and my limited experience as
a caller indicates that few do (if any).
--
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6
http://rule6.info/
<*> <*> <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person:
http://rule6.info/hearing.html_____________________________________________…
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
7:25 a.m.
New subject: Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance)
I also generally find the best dances are the ones where I barely noticed
the caller all night. Particularly if it's a great band, I just prefer that
the caller stay out of the way of the music. And musical calls often annoy
me, again more often if I'm excited about the band.
On Feb 15, 2014 12:24 AM, "Greg McKenzie" <grekenzie(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Rich wrote:
I attended a well established open contra dance
recently with at least
50%
newbies. The caller did an excellent job
teaching and calling contras,
but
his method was more like a square dance caller.
He seldom stopped
calling
and had lots of descriptive words for the
dancers. Several dancers
throughout the night told me how easy it was to dance to this caller, and
how good his calls were. I did not hear one complaint from the dancers,
or
musicians, that he never stopped calling.
There is definitely a difference in style and preference here. I really
respect a caller who can entertain in this way. But it does not "work" for
me like most of the dances I attend. I come for the music and the people
and I love a caller who facilitates a connection between the music and the
dancers. That is plenty "entertaining" for me. Connecting with the caller
is not so much of a draw for me. If the caller "fills the room" with his
personality and voice...well, I generally start looking for another room.
But, that's just how I roll on this. I like to be an integral part of the
event and feel I have a role in making the connections happen. I don't go
to be entertained by the caller.
Oh...and I don't get any complaints when I call either. Dancers are a very
kind and generous bunch, I think. (And I make it my business to seek out
complaints.)
To each his own.
- Greg Mckenzie
West Coast, USA
*********
Additionally, the caller went out of his way
several times to bring the
attention to the excellent musicians playing beside him. The dance was
very successful, and the caller (calls) very entertaining.
There are few callers capable of delivering that kind of program, and
even
fewer who do. It was a welcomed change for me,
and for many of the
dancers
at the event.
Rich Sbardella
Stafford, CT
________________________________
From: Harold E. Watson <hwatson(a)uark.edu>
To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Callers] Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re:
Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance)
I know most our dancers are still listening because if I ever lose my
place and miss-call the next figure, half will try to do what I said
(usually the beginners) and the other half will loudly pronounce the
correct move. When I do booboo, after the dance I always compliment the
dancers on their masterful recovery, even if they didn't have one.
I also try to drop out as early as practical. It's usually as switch
from
full calling to single words, and finally to
maybe a word once every 32
bars at a place that may have tricky timing or to get everyone back in
sync
with each other.
........Circle left
.......Neighbor swing
...Long lines forward and back
...Ladies allemande right 1-1/2
To
........Circle
........Neighbor
......Forward and back
........Ladies
Harold
-----Original Message-----
From: callers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net [mailto:
callers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of Aahz Maruch
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 3:35 PM
To: callers(a)sharedweight.net
Subject: Re: [Callers] Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re:
Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance)
On Thu, Feb 13, 2014, Jonathan Sivier wrote:
as
I like to change around the exact words I use during a dance. In
part to keep myself and the dancers alert. Also if a given phrase
doesn't work for someone then the next time through if I say something
slightly different it may make more sense for them. Also if some part
of the dance seems to be causing problems for some of the dancers I
may change the words I'm using in order to, hopefully, help them out.
Does anyone have evidence that dancers pay attention to the caller after
the first few iterations? I certainly don't, and my limited experience a caller indicates that few do (if any).
--
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6
http://rule6.info/
<*> <*> <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person:
http://rule6.info/hearing.html_____________________________________________…
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
11:29 a.m.
New subject: Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance)
Variety is the spice of life!
________________________________
From: Dave Casserly <david.j.casserly(a)gmail.com>
To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2014 7:25 AM
Subject: Re: [Callers] Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: Circle
& pass through as the last move of a dance)
I also generally find the best dances are the ones where I barely noticed
the caller all night. Particularly if it's a great band, I just prefer that
the caller stay out of the way of the music. And musical calls often annoy
me, again more often if I'm excited about the band.
On Feb 15, 2014 12:24 AM, "Greg McKenzie" <grekenzie(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Rich wrote:
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
I attended a well established open contra dance
recently with at least
50%
newbies. The caller did an excellent job
teaching and calling contras,
but
his method was more like a square dance caller.
He seldom stopped
calling
and had lots of descriptive words for the
dancers. Several dancers
throughout the night told me how easy it was to dance to this caller, and
how good his calls were. I did not hear one complaint from the dancers,
or
musicians, that he never stopped calling.
There is definitely a difference in style and preference here. I really
respect a caller who can entertain in this way. But it does not "work" for
me like most of the dances I attend. I come for the music and the people
and I love a caller who facilitates a connection between the music and the
dancers. That is plenty "entertaining" for me. Connecting with the caller
is not so much of a draw for me. If the caller "fills the room" with his
personality and voice...well, I generally start looking for another room.
But, that's just how I roll on this. I like to be an integral part of the
event and feel I have a role in making the connections happen. I don't go
to be entertained by the caller.
Oh...and I don't get any complaints when I call either. Dancers are a very
kind and generous bunch, I think. (And I make it my business to seek out
complaints.)
To each his own.
- Greg Mckenzie
West Coast, USA
*********
Additionally, the caller went out of his way
several times to bring the
attention to the excellent musicians playing beside him. The dance was
very successful, and the caller (calls) very entertaining.
There are few callers capable of delivering that kind of program, and
even
fewer who do. It was a welcomed change for me,
and for many of the
dancers
at the event.
Rich Sbardella
Stafford, CT
________________________________
From: Harold E. Watson <hwatson(a)uark.edu>
To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Callers] Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re:
Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance)
I know most our dancers are still listening because if I ever lose my
place and miss-call the next figure, half will try to do what I said
(usually the beginners) and the other half will loudly pronounce the
correct move. When I do booboo, after the dance I always compliment the
dancers on their masterful recovery, even if they didn't have one.
I also try to drop out as early as practical. It's usually as switch
from
full calling to single words, and finally to
maybe a word once every 32
bars at a place that may have tricky timing or to get everyone back in
sync
with each other.
........Circle left
.......Neighbor swing
...Long lines forward and back
...Ladies allemande right 1-1/2
To
........Circle
........Neighbor
......Forward and back
........Ladies
Harold
-----Original Message-----
From: callers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net [mailto:
callers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of Aahz Maruch
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 3:35 PM
To: callers(a)sharedweight.net
Subject: Re: [Callers] Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re:
Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance)
On Thu, Feb 13, 2014, Jonathan Sivier wrote:
as
I like to change around the exact words I use during a dance. In
part to keep myself and the dancers alert. Also if a given phrase
doesn't work for someone then the next time through if I say something
slightly different it may make more sense for them. Also if some part
of the dance seems to be causing problems for some of the dancers I
may change the words I'm using in order to, hopefully, help them out.
Does anyone have evidence that dancers pay attention to the caller after
the first few iterations? I certainly don't, and my limited experience a caller indicates that few do (if any).
--
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3:26 p.m.
New subject: Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance)
Jonathan Sivier wrote:
I like to change around the exact words I use during a
dance.
and then offered various reasons. I think he makes some good points.
But except for the brief remark
I do like to work out economical phrases for complex
sequences of
figures as you mention.
he doesn't say just what he does about the kind of situation I was
describing, namely calling (or preparing to call) a dance that
includes a sequence of short moves for which it may be difficult
to blurt out well-timed calls "on the fly".
Greg's recommendation, as I understand it, is to have calls written
out verbatim (including timing) on the dance card.
I think there are other things a caller can do besides, on the one
hand, reading calls verbatim from a card or, on the other hand,
just coming up with words on the fly.
In the days leading up to a dance event, you could pick out those dances
in your program (including back-up dances) that you think may be hard
for you to call "on the fly." Then you could play some recordings
of contra dance music and practice calling them, either while seated
or while dancing one person's part and imagining the other dancers,
until you're confident that you've come up with good words and timing
and that you can do so again at the event. As you practice, you might
try using different wordings, aiming to get to a point where you're
confident that, if you wished, you could vary the wording at the event
without messing up your timing.
If you do write down exact call words and timing, then instead of
reading them at the event, you could memorize them during the time
before the event. Or you could use them as the starting point for
a practice session where you practice not only with the words you've
written but also with variant wordings. And after having practiced
to the point where you think you can deliver clear and accurately
timed calls without relying on a card, you might nonetheless keep
the card at hand in case you have a momentary mind lapse while
you're calling.
Conversely, even someone who is an unabashed card reader might find
that if they're planning to call a dance with challenging or unusual
call timing, some practice to music beforehand may help them deliver
the calls more comfortably and with more natural prosody than if
they were to just read the calls cold from the card on the night
of the dance.
The range of things that any particular caller can call without
some advance rehearsal/brush-up (and without reading from a card)
may vary with experience. Before I called my very first contra,
"Scout House Reel", I played an album of contra music and practiced
calling the dance all the way through each of several tracks, until
I could do it without ever feeling tongue-tied and I reliably had
my imaginary dancers finishing the B2 as each track ended. Nowadays
I wouldn't need that sort of preparation for "Scout House Reel" or
even for dances with somewhat more difficult timing issues (the
sequence "circle left 3/4 (6); pass through (2)" that started this
thread being just one of many examples). But there certainly are
still dances for which I'd be well advised to put in some prep time
before calling.
--Jim
On Feb 13, 2014, at 11:03 AM, Jonathan Sivier wrote:
On 2/13/2014 12:39 PM, James Saxe wrote:
In any case, you must somehow decide what words
to include in your
calling (and in what order) and what to leave out. You could just
lead a walk-through, signal the band to start, watch the dancers, and
trust that the appropriate and well-timed words to help them through
the dance will come into your brain and out of your mouth. But if
you
do so, you may find that your first try isn't so great and that it
takes you a few repeats of the dance to refine it. Those first few
rounds of the dance, however, are the ones where dancers would most
benefit from clear and well-timed calling, both to guide them through
the figures with the right timing and to get the feeling of the right
timing into their memory for the rest of the dance.
I like to change around the exact words I use during a dance. In
part to keep myself and the dancers alert. Also if a given phrase
doesn't work for someone then the next time through if I say
something slightly different it may make more sense for them. Also
if some part of the dance seems to be causing problems for some of
the dancers I may change the words I'm using in order to, hopefully,
help them out. This may be as simple as interchanging "Long Lines
Forward and Back", with "Long Lines" and "Forward and Back", or
as
complex as adding in words to tell in more detail who to do the next
figure with, or which hand to use or whatever. I can't think of a
specific example at the moment, but I know that I do this all of the
time and it isn't something that I plan ahead of time.
I do like to work out economical phrases for complex sequences of
figures as you mention, but I also like to keep my options open to
allow additional words where needed.
Jonathan
-----
Jonathan Sivier
Caller of Contra, English and Early American Dances
jsivier AT illinois DOT edu
Dance Page: http://www.sivier.me/dance_leader.html
-----
Q: How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
A: It depends on what dance you call!
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13 Feb
13 Feb
10:36 a.m.
New subject: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance
Aahz,
Watch some MWSD calling on youtube with the volume off. You will find that in most of the
videos, neither the dancers or the caller get the timing right. It is stop and go
dancing. Contra dance is most often a steady flow. The MWSD have come to expect this as
the norm.
On another point you made previously, MWSD callers are generally easier for me to
understand as well. This is by necessity. There is no walkthrough, and the list of
basics, coming at you randomly, can number into the hundreds. The Hilton sound systems
have also been engineered to emphasize the vocal range.
Rich
________________________________
From: Aahz Maruch <aahz(a)pobox.com>
To: callers(a)sharedweight.net
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 1:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Callers] Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014, Greg McKenzie wrote:
Well-structured calling is not easy. It does however make a subtle but
significant difference in how confident the dancers feel--particularly at
open, public social events. That is why I structure my calls carefully and
write the calls out verbatim on my cards. That is also why I advocate for
callers at open public contra dances to use dance cards when calling.
Making up calls on the fly often puts the onus on the dancers to get the
timing right.
While I don't particularly disagree with you, particularly for me at this
stage in my calling career, I do find it interesting that your advice to
avoid making up calls on the fly is almost universally ignored by MWSD
callers -- and with the majority of square dance callers (which is to
say, almost all the good ones), it's not the dancers who face the onus of
getting the timing right.
--
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11:50 a.m.
New subject: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance
On Thu, Feb 13, 2014, rich sbardella wrote:
Watch some MWSD calling on youtube with the volume off. You will find
that in most of the videos, neither the dancers or the caller get the
timing right. It is stop and go dancing. Contra dance is most often
a steady flow. The MWSD have come to expect this as the norm.
Sorry, I should have been more clear: I was referring to singing calls,
and IME that's much closer to a contra experience for flow (assuming the
caller isn't playing tricky) and hitting the phrasing. You are correct
about patter, of course.
On another point you made previously, MWSD callers are
generally
easier for me to understand as well. This is by necessity. There is
no walkthrough, and the list of basics, coming at you randomly, can
number into the hundreds. The Hilton sound systems have also been
engineered to emphasize the vocal range.
There are callers who don't use Hilton, they still tend to be easier for
me to hear than most contra callers.
The question then is, to what extent should contra callers learn from
square dance callers about being easier to hear?
Side note: one of the key points that keeps getting drilled into me as a
new square dance caller is that even full-out hash-style calling should
*NOT* be "random". Consider R&L thru followed by men allemande right.
--
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contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
41 comments
17 participants
participants (17)
-
Aahz Maruch -
Alan Winston -
Bob Isaacs -
Colin Hume -
Dave Casserly -
Donna Hunt -
Erik Hoffman -
Greg McKenzie -
Harold E. Watson -
James Saxe -
John Sweeney -
Jonathan Sivier -
Kalia Kliban -
Lindsay Morris -
Maia McCormick -
rich sbardella -
Robert Livingston