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Re: [Callers] Surely this already...

Luke Donforth via Callers

21 Aug 2016 21 Aug '16

9:10 p.m.

Hello all, I was trying to find an easy and accessible dance, a real glossary basic contra. I feel like this must already exist, but I'm not finding it in my notes. Someone got a prior? Type: Contra Formation: Duple-Improper A1 ----------- (8) Neighbor Do-si-do (8) Neighbor swing, end facing down the hall A2 ----------- (8) Down the hall, four in line (turn as couples) (8) Return and Bend the line B1 ----------- (6) Circle Left 3/4 (10) Partner neighbor B2 ----------- (8) Long lines, forward and back (8) Women allemande Left 1-1/2 The B2 could be W DSD 1.5, although I like the allemande for the connection for brand new dancers. I specifically chose the left hand to leave the women facing towards their new neighbor. I know it's really close to a bunch of other stuff. B2 could be C L 3/4, balance and pass through; or chain to left hand star à la The Nice Combination; etc. Barring it already having been named by someone else, I'm going to call it "Having Fun with PAM" to keep track of it in my box; since I just got back from the fabulous PAMFest (Peacham Acoustic Music Festival). Thanks.

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Linda Leslie via Callers

21 Aug 21 Aug

9:53 p.m.

This dance is virtually the same as Troxler’s on the Loose, by Chris Ricciotti. The only difference in Chris’ dance is that the final move is a ladies chain. Beth Parkes also wrote a dance that is mostly the same: Forgotten treasure. She begins the dance with a N B&S, and ends it with a chain as well. Linda On Aug 21, 2016, at 9:10 PM, Luke Donforth via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

...

Hello all, I was trying to find an easy and accessible dance, a real glossary basic contra. I feel like this must already exist, but I'm not finding it in my notes. Someone got a prior? Type: Contra Formation: Duple-Improper A1 ----------- (8) Neighbor Do-si-do (8) Neighbor swing, end facing down the hall A2 ----------- (8) Down the hall, four in line (turn as couples) (8) Return and Bend the line B1 ----------- (6) Circle Left 3/4 (10) Partner swing B2 ----------- (8) Long lines, forward and back (8) Women allemande Left 1-1/2 The B2 could be W DSD 1.5, although I like the allemande for the connection for brand new dancers. I specifically chose the left hand to leave the women facing towards their new neighbor. I know it's really close to a bunch of other stuff. B2 could be C L 3/4, balance and pass through; or chain to left hand star à la The Nice Combination; etc. Barring it already having been named by someone else, I'm going to call it "Having Fun with PAM" to keep track of it in my box; since I just got back from the fabulous PAMFest (Peacham Acoustic Music Festival). Thanks. _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

Jack Mitchell via Callers

10:27 p.m.

Though I know that there are lots of traditional dances with a ladies chain (turn away) new N...., I am really not crazy about them. Ok....I'll admit it, I actively dislike them. Particularly for new dancers, and particularly going to a discrete move like a balance. It requires the lady to extricate themselves from a previous neighbor (who *should certainly not* twirl and forget, but frequently does), and requires the (polite) gent to turn away from their direction of progression to get new ladies pointed in the right direction at the end of the courtesy turn before the gent can progress (and for that matter, requires the courtesy turn to be either done more quickly, or otherwise to be cut short to get everyone going in the right direction. (don't even get me started on dances that have a butterfly whirl -> turn away to a new neighbor). (There are dances -- like Punctuated Raindrops -- that have that progression, that I will still call a) because they're great dances other than that and b) because the timing of the progression isn't discrete -- if you're late to start the allemande L, it's ok, the timing will work out in the wash.) </rant> The ladies allemande L progression, 1) puts the ladies in a bit more control, 2) allows the caller to point out where they're going, and who they're going to and 3) leaves a free hand available to reach out to the new neighbor. Even with similarities in the rest of the dance, I think that is really enough to make it a distinct (and a more accessible) dance from the ones mentioned. Jack On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 9:53 PM Linda Leslie via Callers < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

...

Hello all, I was trying to find an easy and accessible dance, a real glossary basic

contra.

I feel like this must already exist, but I'm not finding it in my notes.

Someone got a prior?

Type: Contra Formation: Duple-Improper A1 ----------- (8) Neighbor Do-si-do (8) Neighbor swing, end facing down the hall A2 ----------- (8) Down the hall, four in line (turn as couples) (8) Return and Bend the line B1 ----------- (6) Circle Left 3/4 (10) Partner swing B2 ----------- (8) Long lines, forward and back (8) Women allemande Left 1-1/2 The B2 could be W DSD 1.5, although I like the allemande for the

connection for brand new dancers. I specifically chose the left hand to leave the women facing towards their new neighbor.

I know it's really close to a bunch of other stuff. B2 could be C L 3/4,

balance and pass through; or chain to left hand star à la The Nice Combination; etc.

Barring it already having been named by someone else, I'm going to call

it "Having Fun with PAM" to keep track of it in my box; since I just got back from the fabulous PAMFest (Peacham Acoustic Music Festival).

Thanks. _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

_______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

-- Jack Mitchell Durham, NC

Bob Isaacs via Callers

22 Aug 22 Aug

4:56 a.m.

Hi All: While I appreciate Jack's comments about the chain/B&S progression, that is more of a teaching issue than a choreographic one. More important is how much assistance those in the ladies role can get from their partner in B2b. In a chain they can get that from the joined hands in the long lines. But for the allemande L they need to let go from their partner and are on their own. That help would occur if Luke's dance finished with a ladies allemande R 1 1/2, but that would not flow as well into the next neighbor dosido. So I'll stick with Nice Combo/Troxler's on the Loose/Forgotten Treasure - Bob ________________________________ From: Callers <callers-bounces(a)lists.sharedweight.net> on behalf of Jack Mitchell via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2016 10:27 PM To: Linda Leslie; Luke Donforth Cc: Callers(a)Lists.Sharedweight.net Subject: Re: [Callers] Surely this already exists? Though I know that there are lots of traditional dances with a ladies chain (turn away) new N...., I am really not crazy about them. Ok....I'll admit it, I actively dislike them. Particularly for new dancers, and particularly going to a discrete move like a balance. It requires the lady to extricate themselves from a previous neighbor (who should certainly not twirl and forget, but frequently does), and requires the (polite) gent to turn away from their direction of progression to get new ladies pointed in the right direction at the end of the courtesy turn before the gent can progress (and for that matter, requires the courtesy turn to be either done more quickly, or otherwise to be cut short to get everyone going in the right direction. (don't even get me started on dances that have a butterfly whirl -> turn away to a new neighbor). (There are dances -- like Punctuated Raindrops -- that have that progression, that I will still call a) because they're great dances other than that and b) because the timing of the progression isn't discrete -- if you're late to start the allemande L, it's ok, the timing will work out in the wash.) </rant> The ladies allemande L progression, 1) puts the ladies in a bit more control, 2) allows the caller to point out where they're going, and who they're going to and 3) leaves a free hand available to reach out to the new neighbor. Even with similarities in the rest of the dance, I think that is really enough to make it a distinct (and a more accessible) dance from the ones mentioned. Jack On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 9:53 PM Linda Leslie via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote: This dance is virtually the same as Troxler’s on the Loose, by Chris Ricciotti. The only difference in Chris’ dance is that the final move is a ladies chain. Beth Parkes also wrote a dance that is mostly the same: Forgotten treasure. She begins the dance with a N B&S, and ends it with a chain as well. Linda On Aug 21, 2016, at 9:10 PM, Luke Donforth via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:

...

Hello all, I was trying to find an easy and accessible dance, a real glossary basic contra. I feel like this must already exist, but I'm not finding it in my notes. Someone got a prior? Type: Contra Formation: Duple-Improper A1 ----------- (8) Neighbor Do-si-do (8) Neighbor swing, end facing down the hall A2 ----------- (8) Down the hall, four in line (turn as couples) (8) Return and Bend the line B1 ----------- (6) Circle Left 3/4 (10) Partner swing B2 ----------- (8) Long lines, forward and back (8) Women allemande Left 1-1/2 The B2 could be W DSD 1.5, although I like the allemande for the connection for brand new dancers. I specifically chose the left hand to leave the women facing towards their new neighbor. I know it's really close to a bunch of other stuff. B2 could be C L 3/4, balance and pass through; or chain to left hand star à la The Nice Combination; etc. Barring it already having been named by someone else, I'm going to call it "Having Fun with PAM" to keep track of it in my box; since I just got back from the fabulous PAMFest (Peacham Acoustic Music Festival). Thanks. _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

_______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net -- Jack Mitchell Durham, NC

Luke Donforth via Callers

10:58 a.m.

Thank you to everyone who chimed in; fun to hear about all the versions and folks preferences. I, personally, am glad my (digital) box is big enough for all of the variations. I can see instances where I'd use any of them. With predominately new dancers on the first duple improper of the evening, I think the ladies on their own for an allemande would fare better than the "help" gents can give on the courtesy turn of a chain. I agree with Jack that chain->face new neighbor can be a tough transition. But Troxler's is straightforward enough that you could use it to focus on teaching a chain to new dancers; with a forgiving squishy entry into the DSD. And I haven't broken a hundred times yet with Nice Combination, but I'm sure I will. Thanks again. This discussion has even got me thinking about another thing I'd like to discuss on shared weight. On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 4:56 AM, Bob Isaacs <isaacsbob(a)hotmail.com> wrote:

...

Hi All: While I appreciate Jack's comments about the chain/B&S progression, that is more of a teaching issue than a choreographic one. More important is how much assistance those in the ladies role can get from their partner in B2b. In a chain they can get that from the joined hands in the long lines. But for the allemande L they need to let go from their partner and are on their own. That help would occur if Luke's dance finished with a ladies allemande R 1 1/2, but that would not flow as well into the next neighbor dosido. So I'll stick with Nice Combo/Troxler's on the Loose/Forgotten Treasure - Bob ------------------------------ *From:* Callers <callers-bounces(a)lists.sharedweight.net> on behalf of Jack Mitchell via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> *Sent:* Sunday, August 21, 2016 10:27 PM *To:* Linda Leslie; Luke Donforth *Cc:* Callers(a)Lists.Sharedweight.net *Subject:* Re: [Callers] Surely this already exists? Though I know that there are lots of traditional dances with a ladies chain (turn away) new N...., I am really not crazy about them. Ok....I'll admit it, I actively dislike them. Particularly for new dancers, and particularly going to a discrete move like a balance. It requires the lady to extricate themselves from a previous neighbor (who *should certainly not* twirl and forget, but frequently does), and requires the (polite) gent to turn away from their direction of progression to get new ladies pointed in the right direction at the end of the courtesy turn before the gent can progress (and for that matter, requires the courtesy turn to be either done more quickly, or otherwise to be cut short to get everyone going in the right direction. (don't even get me started on dances that have a butterfly whirl -> turn away to a new neighbor). (There are dances -- like Punctuated Raindrops -- that have that progression, that I will still call a) because they're great dances other than that and b) because the timing of the progression isn't discrete -- if you're late to start the allemande L, it's ok, the timing will work out in the wash.) </rant> The ladies allemande L progression, 1) puts the ladies in a bit more control, 2) allows the caller to point out where they're going, and who they're going to and 3) leaves a free hand available to reach out to the new neighbor. Even with similarities in the rest of the dance, I think that is really enough to make it a distinct (and a more accessible) dance from the ones mentioned. Jack On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 9:53 PM Linda Leslie via Callers < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

Hello all, I was trying to find an easy and accessible dance, a real glossary

basic contra.

I feel like this must already exist, but I'm not finding it in my

notes. Someone got a prior?

connection for brand new dancers. I specifically chose the left hand to leave the women facing towards their new neighbor.

I know it's really close to a bunch of other stuff. B2 could be C L

3/4, balance and pass through; or chain to left hand star à la The Nice Combination; etc.

Barring it already having been named by someone else, I'm going to call

it "Having Fun with PAM" to keep track of it in my box; since I just got back from the fabulous PAMFest (Peacham Acoustic Music Festival).

Thanks. _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

_______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

-- Jack Mitchell Durham, NC

-- Luke Donforth Luke.Donforth(a)gmail.com <Luke.Donev(a)gmail.com>

Ron Blechner via Callers

23 Aug 23 Aug

7:10 p.m.

It's also really similar to Tom Hinds' Frederick Contra (but only gents DSD and order of moves is different) as well as Linda Leslie's Autumn Leaves (but no allemande / chain). I also dislike chain -> progress to balance; it never flows right for me as a dancer. And it defeats the whole purpose of a glossary move dance if a caller has to rely on doing the move (chain) in a way where one or both role has to do it differently from almost every other time it's called. Thus, what's the point of trying to teach a chain, if the caviat is "it'll be different every other time". The allemande to balance can be a reach, I agree. But since the do-si-do is only really a 6 beat move, I like the allemande->do-si-do next progression and think it's sufficiently glossary. I just added Troxler to my box, but with the allemande variation. Best, Ron On Aug 22, 2016 10:58 AM, "Luke Donforth via Callers" < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

...

Hi All: While I appreciate Jack's comments about the chain/B&S progression, that is more of a teaching issue than a choreographic one. More important is how much assistance those in the ladies role can get from their partner in B2b. In a chain they can get that from the joined hands in the long lines. But for the allemande L they need to let go from their partner and are on their own. That help would occur if Luke's dance finished with a ladies allemande R 1 1/2, but that would not flow as well into the next neighbor dosido. So I'll stick with Nice Combo/Troxler's on the Loose/Forgotten Treasure - Bob ------------------------------ *From:* Callers <callers-bounces(a)lists.sharedweight.net> on behalf of Jack Mitchell via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> *Sent:* Sunday, August 21, 2016 10:27 PM *To:* Linda Leslie; Luke Donforth *Cc:* Callers(a)Lists.Sharedweight.net *Subject:* Re: [Callers] Surely this already exists? Though I know that there are lots of traditional dances with a ladies chain (turn away) new N...., I am really not crazy about them. Ok....I'll admit it, I actively dislike them. Particularly for new dancers, and particularly going to a discrete move like a balance. It requires the lady to extricate themselves from a previous neighbor (who *should certainly not* twirl and forget, but frequently does), and requires the (polite) gent to turn away from their direction of progression to get new ladies pointed in the right direction at the end of the courtesy turn before the gent can progress (and for that matter, requires the courtesy turn to be either done more quickly, or otherwise to be cut short to get everyone going in the right direction. (don't even get me started on dances that have a butterfly whirl -> turn away to a new neighbor). (There are dances -- like Punctuated Raindrops -- that have that progression, that I will still call a) because they're great dances other than that and b) because the timing of the progression isn't discrete -- if you're late to start the allemande L, it's ok, the timing will work out in the wash.) </rant> The ladies allemande L progression, 1) puts the ladies in a bit more control, 2) allows the caller to point out where they're going, and who they're going to and 3) leaves a free hand available to reach out to the new neighbor. Even with similarities in the rest of the dance, I think that is really enough to make it a distinct (and a more accessible) dance from the ones mentioned. Jack On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 9:53 PM Linda Leslie via Callers < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

Hello all, I was trying to find an easy and accessible dance, a real glossary

basic contra.

I feel like this must already exist, but I'm not finding it in my

notes. Someone got a prior?

connection for brand new dancers. I specifically chose the left hand to leave the women facing towards their new neighbor.

I know it's really close to a bunch of other stuff. B2 could be C L

3/4, balance and pass through; or chain to left hand star à la The Nice Combination; etc.

Barring it already having been named by someone else, I'm going to

call it "Having Fun with PAM" to keep track of it in my box; since I just got back from the fabulous PAMFest (Peacham Acoustic Music Festival).

Thanks. _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

_______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

-- Jack Mitchell Durham, NC

-- Luke Donforth Luke.Donforth(a)gmail.com <Luke.Donev(a)gmail.com> _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

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Bob Isaacs via Callers
Jack Mitchell via Callers
Linda Leslie via Callers
Luke Donforth via Callers
Ron Blechner via Callers