JoLaine said, "When I dance lead, if I encounter a woman who leans back on me, I simply walk the swing so there is no centrifugal force generated." Yes, self-defense mechanisms are great. Mine is to move my right hand from the lady's shoulder-blade to her waist so that I am not supporting her. And, as you say, one way or another, slow the swing down. It isn't worth getting hurt for. JoLaine said, " You are using the hand behind the other person's shoulder to gently PULL IN". Sorry, I would disagree there. I have experienced a lot of ladies who have been told that, and as a result they put their hand on your back and press hard. I always tell people to just PLACE the hand there. As the swing speeds up you will automatically resist the centrifugal force, but only with just enough pressure to counter it. Too many people start pressing when there is no need and it can be quite uncomfortable. You never actually need to pull in. Of course that only applies if the lady places her hand on the man's back. I never teach that. I always tell ladies to rest their arm gently on the man's upper arm. And here, from a previous discussion with Andrea (we agree to disagree on this one :-) ) is why: = = = = = = = = = Yes, I love swings that are 100% symmetrical. I do lots of Galway Swings, Northumberland Swings, Ceilidh Swing, Sweetheart Swing, etc. where you are both absolutely symmetrical. But the normal buzz-step swing is not QUITE symmetrical. The man's right arm usually goes under the lady's left arm. And that is what makes all the difference. Yes, I know some very well-respected American callers who teach a swing with the lady's left hand on the back of the man's shoulder blade. I believe that there are many challenges associated with this: 1) The man, who, on average, has longer arms, reaches under the lady's arm to very easily reach her shoulder-blade. The lady, with her (on average) shorter arms and probably starting from lower down, has to reach OVER the man's arm to get to his shoulder-blade. Yes, some ladies can reach. But in my experience many ladies cannot easily reach and still be comfortable. 2) If they can just reach, many ladies then, instead of just placing their hand on the man's shoulder-blade (so that when centrifugal force increases they can resist it) they actually press into the man's shoulder-blade. I am not sure if this is just bad technique, but I suspect it may be partially to do with the fact that they can only just reach so they press so that their hand doesn't slip. It can be quite uncomfortable for the man. 3) Even if the lady's arm is the same length as the man, and she is the same height, she still has to reach over his arm, so it automatically pulls you closer together than you need to be, and even closer if her arm is shorter. While there are fun swing variations where we get really, really close, in a standard buzz-step swing I don't believe that being forced closer together is desirable. 4) It is not necessary if the man's hand is well placed. As you say each supports their own weight, so all the connection is doing is resisting centrifugal force and, in nearly 50 years of swinging, I have never found that a problem. 5) It is quite common for the lady to twirl under the man's arm at the end of a swing. If the lady twirls counter-clockwise that is not a problem. But if she twirls clockwise then she will break her arm. Probably not a problem is the lady is completely in control of the twirl - she just prepares for it by moving her arm, but if the man takes some part in initiating the twirl (which I believe is very common) then if he tries to twirl her and she reacts slowly then either the twirl fails or she gets hurt. Of course if the lady's left hand is just resting on the man's upper arm she can twirl either way without a problem. The hand just slides off easily. 6) In complex flourishes, such as a Texas Tommy/Apache Whip exit from a swing, then you really do need some lead and follow, and it is nearly always the man leading the lady. A move like that is impossible if the lady's left hand is on the man's back. Believe me I have tried it! I hope that helps you understand why I always teach the lady to leave her relaxed left arm resting on the man's upper arm. :-) = = = = = = = = = I know we will never get agreement on this, but at least please tell people to just PLACE the hand - no inward pressure is required, just the resistance to outward pressure. :-) Happy dancing, John John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362 http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent