21 Jan
2016
21 Jan
'16
8:33 p.m.
I expect at the time you made the change from "ladies" to "women,"
very few men would have considered dancing with another man, and those who did would have
faced confusion at best, and hostility from some--I speak from my own experience. As that
has changed, so has the language. Sorry if you think that's something to sigh about.
Read Weaver
Jamaica Plain, MA
http://lcfd.org
On Jan 21, 2016, at 2:19 AM, Martha Wild via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Actually, one of the reasons I started using men and women instead of ladies and gents
for the different roles years ago is because I’m from the hippie generation - and we
fought so hard not to be considered “ladies” any more. “”Lady' is a four letter word”
was the expression at the time. I did have women on the floor come up to me and complain
about my using the term when I first started calling, and I myself was uncomfortable with
the nomenclature. So at that point I switched to calling the roles “men” and “women”. So
it came as a surprise to me that now some people object to that as well. Sigh.
Martha
On Jan 20, 2016, at 5:40 PM, Lindsay Morris via
Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:
As somebody said: this is political correctness run amuck.
<irony>
I myself am deeply offended by the term "gentleman". I find it controlling and
violent in its supposition that I must behave in certain ways.
I hereby request - no, demand! - that all callers remove it from their vocabulary
immediately.
</irony>
--------------------
Lindsay Morris
CEO, TSMworks
Tel. 1-859-539-9900
lindsay(a)tsmworks.com <mailto:lindsay@tsmworks.com>
On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 8:21 PM, Harris Lapiroff via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
wrote:
Do you all know that we literally received a letter from the woman in question on this
very mailing list a few months back requesting that we not use this word? It's in an
email from Martha Wild on 11/3/15 with the subject line "[Callers] Fwd: Use of the
word "gypsy" in various folk dances - Response from Voice of Roma", but
I'll paste it back in here to remind you:
From: Carol Silverman <csilverm(a)uoregon.edu <mailto:csilverm@uoregon.edu>>
Subject: Re: Use of the word "gypsy" in various folk dances
Date: November 3, 2015 7:28:00 PM PST
To: Martha Wild <mawild(a)sbcglobal.net <mailto:mawild@sbcglobal.net>>, Voice
of Roma <voiceofroma(a)gmail.com <mailto:voiceofroma@gmail.com>>
Cc: Petra Gelbart <petragelbart(a)gmail.com <mailto:petragelbart@gmail.com>>
Dear Martha,
Sani Rifati, President of Voice of Roma forwarded you message to me. Although I am not
Romani, I am on the Board of VOR and we do care deeply about the terms used for the people
we represent.
A large number of Roma (but not all) are offended by the term Gypsy, especially with a
small g. To “gyp" someone means to steal and swindle; plus the word connotes a false
history— it a short for Egyptian whereas Roma are from India. Roma have faced centuries of
discrimination, and today are subject to deportations and racial profiling; this would be
an opportunity to teach your community a little about their history.
So whatever the history of the dance step, I know that names can be changed by sensitive
callers like you. I would urge you to change the names and seize and educational moment!
Sincerely, Carol Silverman
PS Check the VOR webs page fro my information:
http://www.voiceofroma.com/culture/gyp_vs_rom.html
<http://www.voiceofroma.com/culture/gyp_vs_rom.html>
I assume she uses it on her website and in her writings either because her views have
evolved since writing them or because she is referring to categories that others have
ascribed to music, arts, and people, not because she endorses its usage (since, obviously,
she does not).
I don't understand why this is still an issue up for debate when we've received
such definitive information, nor do I understand why some of you care so much about
defending a term that you have been told is offensive.
On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 8:08 PM, Michael Fuerst via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
wrote:
Here is the web page about the speaker, Carol Silverman
http://anthropology.uoregon.edu/profile/csilverm/
<http://anthropology.uoregon.edu/profile/csilverm/>
Note how freely "gypsy" appears throughout Professor Silverman's page.
The word is obvious not at all heinous.
One doubts the talk will deal with quixotic squawking about the evil of the word
"gypsy" on this and other contra dance forums
Michael Fuerst 802 N Broadway Urbana IL 61801 217 239 5844
<tel:217%20239%205844>
On Wednesday, January 20, 2016 5:19 PM, Linda Leslie via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
wrote:
Yes, it does! If you should be there, please take some notes and share with this list.
Thanks for telling us about it!
Linda
On Jan 20, 2016, at 5:12 PM, Roger Hayes via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net A talk that will be given as part of the Madison
Folk Ball next weekend:
"Global Gypsy: Balkan Romani Music, Appropriation & Representation"
Carol Silverman, Prof. of Cultural Anthropology & Folklore, Univ. of Oregon
Friday Jan 29, Noon - 1:00pm in Room 1335 of Sterling Hall
475 N. Charter Street, Madison WI 53706
Sounds interesting, yes?
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
<http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net>
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Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
<http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net>
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Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
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21 Jan
21 Jan
11:55 p.m.
New subject: That g word
On Thu, Jan 21, 2016, Read Weaver via Callers wrote:
I expect at the time you made the change from "ladies" to "women,"
very few men would have considered dancing with another man, and
those who did would have faced confusion at best, and hostility from
some--I speak from my own experience. As that has changed, so has the
language. Sorry if you think that's something to sigh about.
The vast majority of my contra experience has been in the SF area, but
I've been gender-swapping for a quarter-century and have never received
any hostility.
--
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/
<*> <*> <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
22 Jan
22 Jan
1:19 a.m.
New subject: That g word
I've been dancing both roles since before I started calling. I remember
dancing once with David Cantieni at Spring Weekend in the 80s, and women
getting mad at us because we should have danced with them... And, I
started using "Men" and "Women" almost when I started to call.
I used to say, "Anyone can ask anyone to dance, men can ask women, women
can ask men, men can ask men, and women can ask women. You should try as
many of these as possible." Then my dance community, Santa Barbara, CA,
received a letter about me saying that at a dance in Santa Maria, a
little, quite conservative town north west of Santa Barbara. The letter
noted that some people left when I said that. After that, on further
reflection--for the time and place--I felt the letter writer was
correct. I didn't want to drive away homophobic people, though I wanted
people to feel comfortable dancing with anyone.
But Read W., well, I'm from California, and he's from Massachusetts.
Things might have been different back here, rather than out east, since
we are the "left coast"...
~erik hoffman
Oakland, ca
On 1/21/2016 5:33 PM, Read Weaver via Callers wrote:
I expect at the time you made the change from "ladies" to "women,"
very
few men would have considered dancing with another man, and those who
did would have faced confusion at best, and hostility from some--I speak
from my own experience. As that has changed, so has the language. Sorry
if you think that's something to sigh about.
Read Weaver
Jamaica Plain, MA
http://lcfd.org
3228
days inactive
3228
days old
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
2 comments
3 participants
participants (3)
-
Aahz Maruch via Callers -
Erik Hoffman via Callers
-
Read Weaver via Callers