I am interested in knowing if there have actually been any incidents in the past where a dance was used in an "illegal" way - that is to say, a dance was used, copied, called, distributed, etc, without express consent of the author - and how it was ultimately resolved.  I know that I've called many dances that have been written by other authors without said author knowing I exist.  Some of my dances have been distributed without my knowledge (or my permission).  I don't really care about that - those dances were written to be distributed and enjoyed.  Should I care?  What am I being protected from if I license or copyright my dances?  What am I at risk from if I don't? Perry ________________________________ From: Jim Thaxter <jathaxter47(a)gmail.com> To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net> Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 1:58 PM Subject: Re: [Callers] Dances licensed with CC or similar I would be interested to know the purpose of licensing a dance. Speaking just for myself (although I assume a lot of other amateur choreographers do the same thing), I write a few dances mostly for my own amusement, but don't intend to ever publish them. I'm pretty sure there is a very limited (nonexistent?) market for new dances. I'm happy to have other people call my dances if they think the dances are worthy. Are you familiar with the dance called "Steal This Dance?" An open invitation. On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 10:59 AM, Sam Whited <sam(a)samwhited.com> wrote: _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)sharedweight.net http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers

I do not think Dan is correct that dance choreography is not copyrightable. Dan, I don't know where you got that information, but nothing I know about copyright law gives me that impression. I guess you could argue that contra dances are not sufficiently "original," but the standard for originality is so low in copyright law that I don't think that would be a winning argument, or even close to it. And Sam is also correct that these dances are automatically copyrighted, so long as they were written after 1978. Unless it's a dance you've never written down in any form or have never recorded, then you've copyrighted your dance, whether you want to or not. If it's a dance from before 1978, then unless there's a notice of copyright on the dance, you're probably good. I don't think there generally have been notices of copyright on dances that I've seen published (obviously copyrighting the compilation of dances is a totally different issue). As far as I can tell, the way most callers call most dances is a breach of copyright, and they could potentially be sued for a lot of money for it (there's a statutory minimum of $750 per breach, which really adds up). Don V. also brought up a slightly different point. Somebody copying your cards themselves is a wrong that really has little to do with copyright. It wouldn't be ok for somebody to, say, go through your purse to look at what's in there just because you leave it lying around, and searching through your calling cards seems to be a lot like that. I am not a copyright lawyer, though I did study some small amount of US copyright law in law school. I don't think anybody is particularly likely to be sued for copyright issues, but it might be safe to either stick with dances that you've written (even if somebody else has written the same dance before, that's still ok so long as you really came up with it independently), dances you've been granted a license to use by the choreographer, or dances with copylefts or whatnot. -Dave On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Sam Whited <sam(a)samwhited.com> wrote: -- David Casserly (cell) 781 258-2761

Fair use does not cover public performance at a contra dance. Of course I'm not giving legal advice about any particular instance of breach of copyright. But, as I phrased it in general terms, I believe that if a caller wanted to go after people who called that person's dances, I think that caller could do so. Yes, the caller trying to enforce the copyright would have to register beforehand to do so, but I would guess that if a caller came around who really wanted to sue people for copyright infringement, that caller would have registered their dances close to publication. Is this extremely unlikely? Yes. Does that mean it's not legal or would not work? No. I also agree that it appears to common sense that callers who publish their dances in books intend for other people to call those dances. Why else would they publish them? But, that reasoning doesn't extend to public performances of plays, for instance, so I'm not convinced a judge would look at it the way you do. As far as "performing rights" go, any caller could license anybody to call their dances the same way music copyright holders allow ASCAP and BMI to license their dances. And indeed, some apparently do, through "copyleft" notices, which are essentially open licenses for anybody to have performing rights to it. But most callers do not do this in any kind of clear way. On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 3:08 AM, Yoyo Zhou <yozhov(a)gmail.com> wrote: -- David Casserly (cell) 781 258-2761

People have put various thoughts forth here about whether or not contra dance sequences are sufficiently original to be copyrightable. In my view, they are. In some others' views, apparently they're not. If they are not, then yes, nobody can take legal action based on copyrighted dances. If they are, then fair use is not going to provide a safe harbor. It's a narrower doctrine than most people think it is in the first place (a lot of people claim "fair use" when their use would never hold up as "fair use" in court), and contra dances that charge admission would almost certainly be outside of fair use. Your example isn't really what we're talking about here, either. If you conjure up a dance on the spot, you did not violate a copyright even if dances are copyrightable and somebody else has already come up with that sequence of figures. If two people independently produce the same exact work of art, they each have a copyright to it. Doesn't really happen in most instances, but with contra dances, it happens all the time. On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 11:16 AM, Greg McKenzie <grekenzie(a)gmail.com> wrote: -- David Casserly (cell) 781 258-2761

On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 2:43 PM, Dave Casserly <david.j.casserly(a)gmail.com> wrote: I read more about this, and it looks like a social dance might not qualify as a "dramatic work". On the other hand, if your dance is not a “dramatic work” because it is not a choreographic show, does not tell a story or is not part of a dramatic performance, it is not protected. -- http://www.copyright.org.au/admin/cms-acc1/_images/15356429875239252b8737e.… They conclude "In our view, it is unlikely that social dances will be protected by copyright." I wrote a blog post: http://www.jefftk.com/p/can-you-copyright-a-contra-dance

On 09/13/2013 10:30 PM, Aylwen Gardiner-Garden wrote: Thanks, I'll check those out! Also thanks because I think this is the first on-topic reply to this thread; not that the other discussion hasn't been interesting though. Best, Sam -- Sam Whited pub 4096R/EC2C9934 https://samwhited.com/contact

On 09/14/2013 10:37 AM, Bob Green wrote: Thanks Bob! I guess I missed that somehow. I appreciate all the links and the thurough list. Looks like I'll have plenty of example dances to work with after all. Thanks again, Sam -- Sam Whited pub 4096R/EC2C9934 https://samwhited.com/contact