18 Feb
2014
18 Feb
'14
2:23 p.m.
A number of years ago I danced a number of times with a woman who was much
shorter than me. I am about 5'6" or so on a good day. She was probably
4'8" give or take an inch. When we'd go into a swing, as my arm went around
her to her back, she'd lock her left arm down so that I could hardly get my
right hand past her side. At first I thought it was bad form on her part,
but let it be. Then as I watched her dance with others, I realized that
when her co-swinger managed to get his arm around her to the "normal" place
it had the result of lifting her left side up to what appeared to me to be
a discomfort level. The taller the man, the further her left side was
forced to go. I had to learn a new approach to entering a swing, even to
lean toward bad form when the height of the other dancer led me to an
adjusted approach. I'm not suggesting we should teach this, but thinking
about how your technique (good or bad) can cause another discomfort is
worth thinking about. Over the year I've danced enough with men that I've
also experienced discomfort with this height differential. Just thinking
out loud. Thanks.
18 Feb
18 Feb
11:24 p.m.
An interesting topic.
We have women at both ends of the height spectrum. I don't (as far as I
know) have trouble with the short ones, but it took me a while to adapt to
dancing with women who were considerably taller than I am.
Finally I just asked some of them, "Where should I put my hand to support
you best during a swing."
The answers varied from one woman to another, and they might well vary
based on my height, weight and style, but I will say that asking worked
well.
Dale
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 8:23 AM, George Mercer <geopmercer(a)gmail.com> wrote:
A number of years ago I danced a number of times with
a woman who was much
shorter than me. I am about 5'6" or so on a good day. She was probably
4'8" give or take an inch. When we'd go into a swing, as my arm went around
her to her back, she'd lock her left arm down so that I could hardly get my
right hand past her side. At first I thought it was bad form on her part,
but let it be. Then as I watched her dance with others, I realized that
when her co-swinger managed to get his arm around her to the "normal" place
it had the result of lifting her left side up to what appeared to me to be
a discomfort level. The taller the man, the further her left side was
forced to go. I had to learn a new approach to entering a swing, even to
lean toward bad form when the height of the other dancer led me to an
adjusted approach. I'm not suggesting we should teach this, but thinking
about how your technique (good or bad) can cause another discomfort is
worth thinking about. Over the year I've danced enough with men that I've
also experienced discomfort with this height differential. Just thinking
out loud. Thanks.
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
--
*So if you knew what was broken...how long would it take you to fix it?*
11:33 p.m.
I recently danced with a neighbor who always had his hand perfectly on my
scapula. It was like there was a magnet between his hand and my back, and
i loved it. When I had a chance, between dances, I let him know how much I
appreciated it, and asked him what his trick is, hoping that I could
emulate it. He had no idea, and suggested that maybe I'm just the right
height/size for dancing with him.
(though if anyone has tips for hand placement as a gent during a swing, I'm
all ears.)
Les
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 3:24 PM, Dale Wilson <dale.wilson(a)gmail.com> wrote:
An interesting topic.
We have women at both ends of the height spectrum. I don't (as far as I
know) have trouble with the short ones, but it took me a while to adapt to
dancing with women who were considerably taller than I am.
Finally I just asked some of them, "Where should I put my hand to support
you best during a swing."
The answers varied from one woman to another, and they might well vary
based on my height, weight and style, but I will say that asking worked
well.
Dale
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 8:23 AM, George Mercer <geopmercer(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
A number of years ago I danced a number of times
with a woman who was
much
shorter than me. I am about 5'6" or so
on a good day. She was probably
4'8" give or take an inch. When we'd go into a swing, as my arm went
around
her to her back, she'd lock her left arm down
so that I could hardly get
my
right hand past her side. At first I thought it
was bad form on her
part,
but let it be. Then as I watched her dance with
others, I realized that
when her co-swinger managed to get his arm around her to the "normal"
place
it had the result of lifting her left side up to
what appeared to me to
be
a discomfort level. The taller the man, the
further her left side was
forced to go. I had to learn a new approach to entering a swing, even to
lean toward bad form when the height of the other dancer led me to an
adjusted approach. I'm not suggesting we should teach this, but thinking
about how your technique (good or bad) can cause another discomfort is
worth thinking about. Over the year I've danced enough with men that
I've
also experienced discomfort with this height
differential. Just thinking
out loud. Thanks.
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
--
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19 Feb
19 Feb
2:33 p.m.
Sometimes we'll hold a quick swing teach during a break. I've always taught the
gents to place their right hands between the ladies shoulder blades. This provides
support for the ladies' backs so they can lean back into it to balance with swing and
it doesn't hurt their back. (We have some gents that insist on swinging at around 90
RPM.) One of the more difficult thing I've had to teach beginner ladies is get used
to leaning into that hand. They have a tendency to tightly grip my right shoulder rather
than relax. It can be a difficult concept for a newbie.
Harold
-----Original Message-----
From: callers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net [mailto:callers-bounces@sharedweight.net] On Behalf
Of Les Addison
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 5:33 PM
To: Caller's discussion list
Subject: Re: [Callers] Height diffferential
I recently danced with a neighbor who always had his hand perfectly on my scapula. It was
like there was a magnet between his hand and my back, and i loved it. When I had a
chance, between dances, I let him know how much I appreciated it, and asked him what his
trick is, hoping that I could emulate it. He had no idea, and suggested that maybe
I'm just the right height/size for dancing with him.
(though if anyone has tips for hand placement as a gent during a swing, I'm all
ears.)
Les
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 3:24 PM, Dale Wilson <dale.wilson(a)gmail.com> wrote:
An interesting topic.
We have women at both ends of the height spectrum. I don't (as far as
I
know) have trouble with the short ones, but it took me a while to
adapt to dancing with women who were considerably taller than I am.
Finally I just asked some of them, "Where should I put my hand to
support you best during a swing."
The answers varied from one woman to another, and they might well vary
based on my height, weight and style, but I will say that asking
worked well.
Dale
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 8:23 AM, George Mercer <geopmercer(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
_______________________________________________
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A number of years ago I danced a number of times
with a woman who
was
much
shorter than me. I am about 5'6" or so
on a good day. She was
probably 4'8" give or take an inch. When we'd go into a swing, as my
arm went
around
her to her back, she'd lock her left arm down
so that I could hardly
get
my
right hand past her side. At first I thought it
was bad form on her
part,
but let it be. Then as I watched her dance with
others, I realized
that when her co-swinger managed to get his arm around her to the "normal"
place
it had the result of lifting her left side up to
what appeared to me
to
be
a discomfort level. The taller the man, the
further her left side
was forced to go. I had to learn a new approach to entering a
swing, even to lean toward bad form when the height of the other
dancer led me to an adjusted approach. I'm not suggesting we should
teach this, but thinking about how your technique (good or bad) can
cause another discomfort is worth thinking about. Over the year
I've danced enough with men that
I've
also experienced discomfort with this height
differential. Just
thinking out loud. Thanks.
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
--
*So if you knew what was broken...how long would it take you to fix
it?* _______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
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3:25 p.m.
The "Where to place the gent's hand for a swing" is a curious problem for
me. I've generally been told I have a good swing, but every once in a
while I'll be dancing with someone who insists/demands I move my hand
further up on the back or much lower. I do what I'm asked to do. I
hesitate to suggest to anyone that swinging involves "leaning back." As
for body tension/giving weight, I suggest they use the guide that one uses
for gardening and even child rearing -- firm but gentle. Tension but not
stiff or rigid. You can do both. I also find myself when dancing with new
dancers telling them to relax, body rigidity or stiffness is not the answer
and it doesn't help them or the person their dancing with at that moment.
Relax. Firm but gentle. Let me know you're there, Thanks.
On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 9:33 AM, Harold E. Watson <hwatson(a)uark.edu> wrote:
Sometimes we'll hold a quick swing teach during a
break. I've always
taught the gents to place their right hands between the ladies shoulder
blades. This provides support for the ladies' backs so they can lean back
into it to balance with swing and it doesn't hurt their back. (We have
some gents that insist on swinging at around 90 RPM.) One of the more
difficult thing I've had to teach beginner ladies is get used to leaning
into that hand. They have a tendency to tightly grip my right shoulder
rather than relax. It can be a difficult concept for a newbie.
Harold
-----Original Message-----
From: callers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net [mailto:
callers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of Les Addison
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 5:33 PM
To: Caller's discussion list
Subject: Re: [Callers] Height diffferential
I recently danced with a neighbor who always had his hand perfectly on my
scapula. It was like there was a magnet between his hand and my back, and
i loved it. When I had a chance, between dances, I let him know how much I
appreciated it, and asked him what his trick is, hoping that I could
emulate it. He had no idea, and suggested that maybe I'm just the right
height/size for dancing with him.
(though if anyone has tips for hand placement as a gent during a swing,
I'm all ears.)
Les
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 3:24 PM, Dale Wilson <dale.wilson(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
An interesting topic.
We have women at both ends of the height spectrum. I don't (as far as
I
know) have trouble with the short ones, but it took me a while to
adapt to dancing with women who were considerably taller than I am.
Finally I just asked some of them, "Where should I put my hand to
support you best during a swing."
The answers varied from one woman to another, and they might well vary
based on my height, weight and style, but I will say that asking
worked well.
Dale
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 8:23 AM, George Mercer <geopmercer(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
"normal"
A number of years ago I danced a number of times
with a woman who
was
much
shorter than me. I am about 5'6" or so
on a good day. She was
probably 4'8" give or take an inch. When we'd go into a swing, as my
arm went
around
her to her back, she'd lock her left arm down
so that I could hardly
get
my
right hand past her side. At first I thought it
was bad form on her
part,
> but let it be. Then as I watched her dance with others, I realized
> that when her co-swinger managed to get his arm around her to the place
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http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
it had the result of lifting her left side up to
what appeared to me
to
be
a discomfort level. The taller the man, the
further her left side
was forced to go. I had to learn a new approach to entering a
swing, even to lean toward bad form when the height of the other
dancer led me to an adjusted approach. I'm not suggesting we should
teach this, but thinking about how your technique (good or bad) can
cause another discomfort is worth thinking about. Over the year
I've danced enough with men that
I've
also experienced discomfort with this height
differential. Just
thinking out loud. Thanks.
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
--
*So if you knew what was broken...how long would it take you to fix
it?* _______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
4:52 p.m.
As a dancer who often role switches, I have noted that "leaning" can
have some dramatic consequences for my right arm when I dance the
gent's role. I tend to avoid using this word, but do like "relax",
"connection", and other concepts that might get to a better swing
experience. I would love to hear about other words that seem to work
for dancers/callers.
Linda
On Feb 19, 2014, at 10:25 AM, George Mercer wrote:
The "Where to place the gent's hand for a
swing" is a curious
problem for
me. I've generally been told I have a good swing, but every once in a
while I'll be dancing with someone who insists/demands I move my hand
further up on the back or much lower. I do what I'm asked to do. I
hesitate to suggest to anyone that swinging involves "leaning
back." As
for body tension/giving weight, I suggest they use the guide that
one uses
for gardening and even child rearing -- firm but gentle. Tension
but not
stiff or rigid. You can do both. I also find myself when dancing
with new
dancers telling them to relax, body rigidity or stiffness is not the
answer
and it doesn't help them or the person their dancing with at that
moment.
Relax. Firm but gentle. Let me know you're there, Thanks.
On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 9:33 AM, Harold E. Watson <hwatson(a)uark.edu>
wrote:
> Sometimes we'll hold a quick swing teach during a break. I've always
> taught the gents to place their right hands between the ladies
> shoulder
> blades. This provides support for the ladies' backs so they can
> lean back
> into it to balance with swing and it doesn't hurt their back. (We
> have
> some gents that insist on swinging at around 90 RPM.) One of the
> more
> difficult thing I've had to teach beginner ladies is get used to
> leaning
> into that hand. They have a tendency to tightly grip my right
> shoulder
> rather than relax. It can be a difficult concept for a newbie.
>
> Harold
5:02 p.m.
While "relax" would actually be a better description than "leaning"
into hand behind you, "relax" has so far not proven very effective in keeping a
beginner dancer from leaning INTO the swing which makes it much more difficult. Goes
right along with death grip on the right shoulder. It is a challenge. What exactly do
you mean by dramatic consequences for your arm?
Harold
-----Original Message-----
From: callers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net [mailto:callers-bounces@sharedweight.net] On Behalf
Of Linda Leslie
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 10:52 AM
To: Caller's discussion list
Subject: Re: [Callers] Height diffferential
As a dancer who often role switches, I have noted that "leaning" can have some
dramatic consequences for my right arm when I dance the gent's role. I tend to avoid
using this word, but do like "relax", "connection", and other concepts
that might get to a better swing experience. I would love to hear about other words that
seem to work for dancers/callers.
Linda
On Feb 19, 2014, at 10:25 AM, George Mercer wrote:
The "Where to place the gent's hand for a
swing" is a curious problem
for me. I've generally been told I have a good swing, but every once
in a while I'll be dancing with someone who insists/demands I move my
hand further up on the back or much lower. I do what I'm asked to do.
I hesitate to suggest to anyone that swinging involves "leaning back."
As for body tension/giving weight, I suggest they use the guide that
one uses for gardening and even child rearing -- firm but gentle.
Tension but not stiff or rigid. You can do both. I also find myself
when dancing with new dancers telling them to relax, body rigidity or
stiffness is not the answer and it doesn't help them or the person
their dancing with at that moment.
Relax. Firm but gentle. Let me know you're there, Thanks.
On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 9:33 AM, Harold E. Watson <hwatson(a)uark.edu>
wrote:
> Sometimes we'll hold a quick swing teach during a break. I've always
> taught the gents to place their right hands between the ladies
> shoulder blades. This provides support for the ladies' backs so they
> can lean back into it to balance with swing and it doesn't hurt their
> back. (We have some gents that insist on swinging at around 90 RPM.)
> One of the more difficult thing I've had to teach beginner ladies is
> get used to leaning into that hand. They have a tendency to tightly
> grip my right shoulder rather than relax. It can be a difficult
> concept for a newbie.
>
> Harold
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5:39 p.m.
My arm will actually ache from the pressure of my swing partner
leaning back too much.
Linda
On Feb 19, 2014, at 12:02 PM, Harold E. Watson wrote:
While "relax" would actually be a better
description than "leaning"
into hand behind you, "relax" has so far not proven very effective
in keeping a beginner dancer from leaning INTO the swing which makes
it much more difficult. Goes right along with death grip on the
right shoulder. It is a challenge. What exactly do you mean by
dramatic consequences for your arm?
Harold
-----Original Message-----
From: callers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net [mailto:callers-bounces@sharedweight.net
] On Behalf Of Linda Leslie
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 10:52 AM
To: Caller's discussion list
Subject: Re: [Callers] Height diffferential
As a dancer who often role switches, I have noted that "leaning"
can have some dramatic consequences for my right arm when I dance
the gent's role. I tend to avoid using this word, but do like
"relax", "connection", and other concepts that might get to a better
swing experience. I would love to hear about other words that seem
to work for dancers/callers.
Linda
On Feb 19, 2014, at 10:25 AM, George Mercer wrote:
The "Where to place the gent's hand for
a swing" is a curious problem
for me. I've generally been told I have a good swing, but every once
in a while I'll be dancing with someone who insists/demands I move my
hand further up on the back or much lower. I do what I'm asked to
do.
I hesitate to suggest to anyone that swinging involves "leaning
back."
As for body tension/giving weight, I suggest they use the guide that
one uses for gardening and even child rearing -- firm but gentle.
Tension but not stiff or rigid. You can do both. I also find myself
when dancing with new dancers telling them to relax, body rigidity or
stiffness is not the answer and it doesn't help them or the person
their dancing with at that moment.
Relax. Firm but gentle. Let me know you're there, Thanks.
On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 9:33 AM, Harold E. Watson <hwatson(a)uark.edu>
wrote:
> Sometimes we'll hold a quick swing teach during a break. I've
> always
> taught the gents to place their right hands between the ladies
> shoulder blades. This provides support for the ladies' backs so
> they
> can lean back into it to balance with swing and it doesn't hurt
> their
> back. (We have some gents that insist on swinging at around 90
> RPM.)
> One of the more difficult thing I've had to teach beginner ladies is
> get used to leaning into that hand. They have a tendency to tightly
> grip my right shoulder rather than relax. It can be a difficult
> concept for a newbie.
>
> Harold
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5:45 p.m.
Gotha. That never bothered me so I never thought about it that way.
Harold
-----Original Message-----
From: callers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net [mailto:callers-bounces@sharedweight.net] On Behalf
Of Linda Leslie
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 11:39 AM
To: Caller's discussion list
Subject: Re: [Callers] Height diffferential
My arm will actually ache from the pressure of my swing partner leaning back too much.
Linda
On Feb 19, 2014, at 12:02 PM, Harold E. Watson wrote:
While "relax" would actually be a better
description than "leaning"
into hand behind you, "relax" has so far not proven very effective in
keeping a beginner dancer from leaning INTO the swing which makes it
much more difficult. Goes right along with death grip on the right
shoulder. It is a challenge. What exactly do you mean by dramatic
consequences for your arm?
Harold
-----Original Message-----
From: callers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net
[mailto:callers-bounces@sharedweight.net
] On Behalf Of Linda Leslie
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 10:52 AM
To: Caller's discussion list
Subject: Re: [Callers] Height diffferential
As a dancer who often role switches, I have noted that "leaning"
can have some dramatic consequences for my right arm when I dance the
gent's role. I tend to avoid using this word, but do like "relax",
"connection", and other concepts that might get to a better swing
experience. I would love to hear about other words that seem to work
for dancers/callers.
Linda
On Feb 19, 2014, at 10:25 AM, George Mercer wrote:
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
The "Where to place the gent's hand for
a swing" is a curious problem
for me. I've generally been told I have a good swing, but every once
in a while I'll be dancing with someone who insists/demands I move my
hand further up on the back or much lower. I do what I'm asked to
do.
I hesitate to suggest to anyone that swinging involves "leaning
back."
As for body tension/giving weight, I suggest they use the guide that
one uses for gardening and even child rearing -- firm but gentle.
Tension but not stiff or rigid. You can do both. I also find myself
when dancing with new dancers telling them to relax, body rigidity or
stiffness is not the answer and it doesn't help them or the person
their dancing with at that moment.
Relax. Firm but gentle. Let me know you're there, Thanks.
On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 9:33 AM, Harold E. Watson <hwatson(a)uark.edu>
wrote:
> Sometimes we'll hold a quick swing teach during a break. I've
> always taught the gents to place their right hands between the
> ladies shoulder blades. This provides support for the ladies' backs
> so they can lean back into it to balance with swing and it doesn't
> hurt their back. (We have some gents that insist on swinging at
> around 90
> RPM.)
> One of the more difficult thing I've had to teach beginner ladies is
> get used to leaning into that hand. They have a tendency to tightly
> grip my right shoulder rather than relax. It can be a difficult
> concept for a newbie.
>
> Harold
_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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6:59 p.m.
my theory:
if you don't dance both roles, and don't have experience dancing with
someone of a similar size differential (e.g., men who dance as ladies with
a taller person dancing as a gent or women dancing as gents with a shorter
person dancing as a lady), then you shouldn't be telling someone what to do
when dancing the same role as you.
you can tell your dance partner what feels best for you, but you can't
speak to what works for others, particularly when you've never been in
their shoes.
Les
On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 8:52 AM, Linda Leslie <laleslierjg(a)comcast.net>wrote;wrote:
As a dancer who often role switches, I have noted that
"leaning" can have
some dramatic consequences for my right arm when I dance the gent's role. I
tend to avoid using this word, but do like "relax", "connection", and
other
concepts that might get to a better swing experience. I would love to hear
about other words that seem to work for dancers/callers.
Linda
On Feb 19, 2014, at 10:25 AM, George Mercer wrote:
The "Where to place the gent's hand for a swing" is a curious problem for
me. I've generally been told I have a good
swing, but every once in a
while I'll be dancing with someone who insists/demands I move my hand
further up on the back or much lower. I do what I'm asked to do. I
hesitate to suggest to anyone that swinging involves "leaning back." As
for body tension/giving weight, I suggest they use the guide that one uses
for gardening and even child rearing -- firm but gentle. Tension but not
stiff or rigid. You can do both. I also find myself when dancing with
new
dancers telling them to relax, body rigidity or stiffness is not the
answer
and it doesn't help them or the person their dancing with at that moment.
Relax. Firm but gentle. Let me know you're there, Thanks.
On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 9:33 AM, Harold E. Watson <hwatson(a)uark.edu>
wrote:
Sometimes we'll hold a quick swing teach during a break. I've always
_______________________________________________
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taught the gents to place their right hands
between the ladies shoulder
blades. This provides support for the ladies' backs so they can lean
back
into it to balance with swing and it doesn't hurt their back. (We have
some gents that insist on swinging at around 90 RPM.) One of the more
difficult thing I've had to teach beginner ladies is get used to leaning
into that hand. They have a tendency to tightly grip my right shoulder
rather than relax. It can be a difficult concept for a newbie.
Harold
20 Feb
20 Feb
2:46 a.m.
On 2/19/2014 8:52 AM, Linda Leslie wrote:
As a dancer who often role switches, I have noted that
"leaning" can
have some dramatic consequences for my right arm when I dance the gent's
role. I tend to avoid using this word, but do like "relax",
"connection", and other concepts that might get to a better swing
experience. I would love to hear about other words that seem to work for
dancers/callers.
Linda
When I'm teaching a beginner lesson and we're doing our first circles, I
describe it as "springy arms, so we can all support each other as we
circle." That concept of mutual support seems to click for a lot of new
dancers.
Kalia
19 Feb
19 Feb
3:49 p.m.
On Wed, Feb 19, 2014, Harold E. Watson wrote:
Sometimes we'll hold a quick swing teach during a break. I've always
taught the gents to place their right hands between the ladies
shoulder blades.
The way I think of it, the man's right hand should be placed so that the
fingertips would be at or just past the woman's spine if the hand were
flat, but it should be slightly curved around the woman's shoulderblade.
That off-center spot helps if you're going to whirl at the end of the
swing (*not* pushing, but providing support and a *little* bit of guiding
pressure).
At speed -- and particularly given that I focus more on avoiding trapping
the woman's hair, I often don't get perfect placement, but I rarely get
bad placement.
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3:54 p.m.
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014, Les Addison wrote:
(though if anyone has tips for hand placement as a gent during a
swing, I'm all ears.)
The point on the shoulder blade where your palm should be is roughly six
inches below the shoulder itself. I generally try to aim for it by
starting with my hand a bit lower and bringing it up until my arm is just
below the armpit. Starting that way also makes it easier for the woman
to place her arm over mine.
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12 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
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Aahz Maruch -
Dale Wilson -
George Mercer -
Harold E. Watson -
Kalia Kliban -
Les Addison -
Linda Leslie