12 Jan
2010
12 Jan
'10
1:03 p.m.
I too have concerns about the type of music that is played for contra
dances. It's not hard to not see a trend when looking at the last 50
year of contra dance music. What I think happens is that there's
competitiion between bands. If a band want gigs, especially gigs
playing for dance camps, their music has to stand out. So, over the
years the music tends to get wilder and wilder, and at the same time
straying from what the dancers really need.
I peronally know several fiddlers whose only concern is to wow the
dancers. They have absolutely no awareness of what's going on on the
dance floor. They are really not dancers themselves!!!! If there's
good phrasing and a good beat it's often the result of chance.
Likewise, the music at many of the dance camps I've called to often
don't seem to support the dancers which is a shame. I usually enjoy
calling to the 'lowly' workshop bands more than with the featured
act. But the bands that play wild and crazy stuff get the good
gigs. That sends a message to the others for sure.
It is possible to play exciting music and at the same time support
the dances. We all probably know of many musicians who can do this.
I've toyed with the idea of interviewing many of these fine musicians
and making an instructional video. But, would the other musicians
watch it?
The whole thing driving the contra dance revival is the dancers
themselves. Their tastes and inputs are a compass not only for the
music but the choreography as well. I'm thinking that those who
value good solid music are in a minority. The majority of the
dancers like what they hear but may not connect good solid music with
good dancing.
My experience is that folks who have called, played or danced for a
significant amount of time tend to come to this same conclusion about
what makes for good dance music. It's also my experience that some
of our dances and dance camps are run by relatively inexperienced
dancers. So the question is, how to spread some wisdom around?
Tom
On Jan 12, 2010, at 12:00 PM, callers-request(a)sharedweight.net wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Caller's opinions on non-contra music at dances
(Mark Hillegonds)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 00:30:56 -0500
From: "Mark Hillegonds" <mhillegonds(a)comcast.net>
To: "'Caller's discussion list'" <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Subject: Re: [Callers] Caller's opinions on non-contra music at dances
Message-ID: <008e01ca9348$6b95d3b0$42c17b10$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi all,
As a dancer with a wide range of musical tastes, I enjoy dancing to
a wide
variety of music. As a few of the respondents said, as long as
there is
clear phrasing and an appropriate, steady tempo, I'm happy contra
dancing to
just about anything. I actually prefer really interesting music
instead of
the same tune played the same way at the same volume for the entire
dance.
As a musician who plays for contra dances, I also enjoy playing a wide
variety of music. My band ranges from celtic to classical to old-
timey to
Eastern European to jazz and blues and swing. We tend to stray
quite far
from the original melody. Having said that, as three of the
members of the
band are also callers and dancers, we are extremely aware that we
need to
clearly define the 8 bar and A1, A2, B1, B2 phrases for the
dancers. On the
occasion that we get feedback from dancers that they had to count
during one
of our tunes, we assume responsibility for adjusting our playing
such that
we restore any missing structure to our tunes.
On the other hand, we've had many dancers say they sometimes forget to
concentrate on dancing because they so enjoy the music we're
playing. Even
though it's a compliment, we try to reserve those moments for our
concert
performances and not in dances. People come to a dance to dance
and not
listen to us give a concert.
Great conversation.
Mark Hillegonds
Phone: 734-747-7148
Cell: 734-756-8441
Email: mhillegonds(a)comcast.net
-----Original Message-----
From: callers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net
[mailto:callers-bounces@sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of Marian and
Parker
Mann
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 10:54 PM
To: callers(a)sharedweight.net
Subject: [Callers] Caller's opinions on non-contra music at dances
I'm looking for comments on a trend I've noticed in contra music,
specifically, bands playing music far removed from pieces
traditionally
associated with the form. The catalyst was a mid-December dance
in the
northwest where "as a special treat" the band shifted to rock music
during
the next-to-last contra. The caller had stopped and we were left
to our own
devices. The A/B parts and the beat were hard to pick out, and the
dance
began breaking down as people had to guess when one move ended and
another
began. I was there with a group of experienced dancers and our
opinions
were uniformly negative. This was not the only time the band's
selection of
tunes was hard to follow, just the most excessive.
Over the last few years I've seen bands play "unusual" music in
several
locations across the country and at both regular dance series and
dance
weekends. There are some good examples in Youtube (links provided
offline.) IMHO, contra music is an integral part of the dance,
cuing on a
nearly subconscious level the changes between figures. Having to
concentrate excessively on the timing takes emphasis off both the
flow of
the dance and the interaction with fellow dancers.
Part of me can sympathize with the bands. It must be incredibly
boring for
talented musicians to play, say, Jefferson Reel over and over. On
the other
hand, they are hired to play for dancers, not each other, and some
of the
extreme examples smack of self-indulgence.
I assume that essentially all of the members of this list are
dancers and
that a number of you are also musicians. I wondered what the group's
feeling was on this and whether anyone felt it was a positive
development.
_______________________________________________
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http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
------------------------------
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End of Callers Digest, Vol 65, Issue 8
**************************************
12 Jan
12 Jan
2:37 p.m.
I think the people who like the "new" bands are often reacting to those
bands sounding more like what they're used to. It's not so much the newness
of the musical sound as the familiarity - really the oldness - of the sound.
("Hey, isn't that the tune from (insert name of current favorite tv show or
rock band?")
When we dance to hip-hop or blues or klezmer or whatever, it triggers a
"hey, I know this!" reaction, and the sudden recognition of an old friend in
a new context is basically fun. If I'm right about this, a band could even
insert familiar classical music or the theme from Wired or Deep Six Under
and start getting hired around the circuit.
So if we (as dancers) want to keep having this kind of fun, we need to get
rock-and-rollers to start dancing, or else we need to get our
dancer/musicians to learn some rock-and-roll licks (I use rock-and-roll here
generically - substitute your favorite "other" music).
But I would certainly agree that a band with too many non-dancers in it is a
pain. Heck, (don't tell anyone this) I have a band or two where I'm the only
dancer, and I have a constant struggle to explain why we have to do things a
certain way for the dancers. Twice I stepped out of the band to call a dance
and got totally sideswiped -- by my very own band.
M
E
On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 12:03 PM, Tom Hinds <twhinds(a)earthlink.net> wrote:
I too have concerns about the type of music that is
played for contra
dances. It's not hard to not see a trend when looking at the last 50 year
of contra dance music. What I think happens is that there's competitiion
between bands. If a band want gigs, especially gigs playing for dance
camps, their music has to stand out. So, over the years the music tends to
get wilder and wilder, and at the same time straying from what the dancers
really need.
I peronally know several fiddlers whose only concern is to wow the dancers.
They have absolutely no awareness of what's going on on the dance floor.
They are really not dancers themselves!!!! If there's good phrasing and a
good beat it's often the result of chance. Likewise, the music at many of
the dance camps I've called to often don't seem to support the dancers which
is a shame. I usually enjoy calling to the 'lowly' workshop bands more than
with the featured act. But the bands that play wild and crazy stuff get the
good gigs. That sends a message to the others for sure.
It is possible to play exciting music and at the same time support the
dances. We all probably know of many musicians who can do this. I've toyed
with the idea of interviewing many of these fine musicians and making an
instructional video. But, would the other musicians watch it?
The whole thing driving the contra dance revival is the dancers themselves.
Their tastes and inputs are a compass not only for the music but the
choreography as well. I'm thinking that those who value good solid music
are in a minority. The majority of the dancers like what they hear but may
not connect good solid music with good dancing.
My experience is that folks who have called, played or danced for a
significant amount of time tend to come to this same conclusion about what
makes for good dance music. It's also my experience that some of our dances
and dance camps are run by relatively inexperienced dancers. So the
question is, how to spread some wisdom around?
Tom
On Jan 12, 2010, at 12:00 PM, callers-request(a)sharedweight.net wrote:
Send Callers mailing list submissions to
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And the merry love to dance. ~ William Butler Yeats
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Caller's opinions on non-contra music at dances
(Mark Hillegonds)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 00:30:56 -0500
From: "Mark Hillegonds" <mhillegonds(a)comcast.net>
To: "'Caller's discussion list'" <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Subject: Re: [Callers] Caller's opinions on non-contra music at dances
Message-ID: <008e01ca9348$6b95d3b0$42c17b10$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi all,
As a dancer with a wide range of musical tastes, I enjoy dancing to a wide
variety of music. As a few of the respondents said, as long as there is
clear phrasing and an appropriate, steady tempo, I'm happy contra dancing
to
just about anything. I actually prefer really interesting music instead
of
the same tune played the same way at the same volume for the entire dance.
As a musician who plays for contra dances, I also enjoy playing a wide
variety of music. My band ranges from celtic to classical to old-timey to
Eastern European to jazz and blues and swing. We tend to stray quite far
from the original melody. Having said that, as three of the members of
the
band are also callers and dancers, we are extremely aware that we need to
clearly define the 8 bar and A1, A2, B1, B2 phrases for the dancers. On
the
occasion that we get feedback from dancers that they had to count during
one
of our tunes, we assume responsibility for adjusting our playing such that
we restore any missing structure to our tunes.
On the other hand, we've had many dancers say they sometimes forget to
concentrate on dancing because they so enjoy the music we're playing.
Even
though it's a compliment, we try to reserve those moments for our concert
performances and not in dances. People come to a dance to dance and not
listen to us give a concert.
Great conversation.
Mark Hillegonds
Phone: 734-747-7148
Cell: 734-756-8441
Email: mhillegonds(a)comcast.net
-----Original Message-----
From: callers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net
[mailto:callers-bounces@sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of Marian and Parker
Mann
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 10:54 PM
To: callers(a)sharedweight.net
Subject: [Callers] Caller's opinions on non-contra music at dances
I'm looking for comments on a trend I've noticed in contra music,
specifically, bands playing music far removed from pieces traditionally
associated with the form. The catalyst was a mid-December dance in the
northwest where "as a special treat" the band shifted to rock music during
the next-to-last contra. The caller had stopped and we were left to our
own
devices. The A/B parts and the beat were hard to pick out, and the dance
began breaking down as people had to guess when one move ended and another
began. I was there with a group of experienced dancers and our opinions
were uniformly negative. This was not the only time the band's selection
of
tunes was hard to follow, just the most excessive.
Over the last few years I've seen bands play "unusual" music in several
locations across the country and at both regular dance series and dance
weekends. There are some good examples in Youtube (links provided
offline.) IMHO, contra music is an integral part of the dance, cuing on a
nearly subconscious level the changes between figures. Having to
concentrate excessively on the timing takes emphasis off both the flow of
the dance and the interaction with fellow dancers.
Part of me can sympathize with the bands. It must be incredibly boring
for
talented musicians to play, say, Jefferson Reel over and over. On the
other
hand, they are hired to play for dancers, not each other, and some of the
extreme examples smack of self-indulgence.
I assume that essentially all of the members of this list are dancers and
that a number of you are also musicians. I wondered what the group's
feeling was on this and whether anyone felt it was a positive development.
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
End of Callers Digest, Vol 65, Issue 8
**************************************
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
3:28 p.m.
my 2 cents:
#1 Communication between Caller and Band!:
Example:
I attended a dance featuring an up and comming
caller and a very talented band all in their twentys
For the most part the dancers were used to traditional
dances and music, though non-traditional music is not
out of the norm (for this dance series)
Final dance of the evening: short phrases, balances,
swings, alamands... needed well phrased music
Band launched into groove tunes, Dancers were ok
while caller was prompting, when he stopped,
Dancers had to start counting the beats, formations started
to break down, less experianced dancers were loosing
the dance
LSS, it put a damper on the evening .... it's what the dancers remember!
I have danced to bands in New England who do a very
good job of melding tradition with groove
(by the by, these musicians are also dancers!)
I like dancing to these bands, they are well versed in tradition.
and can expand on it without loosing the basics of the music/dance form.
if you watch these musicians they are keeping an eye on the dancers.
Playing for them, not at them
#2 I wonder if we are looking at a seperation between
traditional and a new style of dancing, not unlike
what happened 40 years ago +/-
If there is going to be (if it hasn't already begun)
a divergance in dance styles and preferances.
Perhaps places like Nelson NH (and other small community
dances) will be the keepers of the tradition waiting
for another generation to re-discover the fine art form
of contra dancing.
Random thoughts from a 50+yr old. dancer/caller/ (maybe someday) musician
3:31 p.m.
I gotta say, I really like fiddle / guitar / piano -based jigs and reels.
Putting in Secret Agent Man etc - that's fun for a moment but IMHO should be
used with restraint.
--------------------
Lindsay Morris
CEO, TSMworks
Tel. 1-859-539-9900
lindsay(a)tsmworks.com
On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 3:28 PM, <gtwood(a)worldpath.net> wrote:
my 2 cents:
#1 Communication between Caller and Band!:
Example:
I attended a dance featuring an up and comming
caller and a very talented band all in their twentys
For the most part the dancers were used to traditional
dances and music, though non-traditional music is not
out of the norm (for this dance series)
Final dance of the evening: short phrases, balances,
swings, alamands... needed well phrased music
Band launched into groove tunes, Dancers were ok
while caller was prompting, when he stopped,
Dancers had to start counting the beats, formations started
to break down, less experianced dancers were loosing
the dance
LSS, it put a damper on the evening .... it's what the dancers remember!
I have danced to bands in New England who do a very
good job of melding tradition with groove
(by the by, these musicians are also dancers!)
I like dancing to these bands, they are well versed in tradition.
and can expand on it without loosing the basics of the music/dance form.
if you watch these musicians they are keeping an eye on the dancers.
Playing for them, not at them
#2 I wonder if we are looking at a seperation between
traditional and a new style of dancing, not unlike
what happened 40 years ago +/-
If there is going to be (if it hasn't already begun)
a divergance in dance styles and preferances.
Perhaps places like Nelson NH (and other small community
dances) will be the keepers of the tradition waiting
for another generation to re-discover the fine art form
of contra dancing.
Random thoughts from a 50+yr old. dancer/caller/ (maybe someday) musician
_______________________________________________
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5:19 p.m.
#2 I wonder if we are looking at a seperation between
traditional and a new style of dancing, not unlike
what happened 40 years ago +/-
If there is going to be (if it hasn't already begun)
a divergance in dance styles and preferances.
In our area (Asheville, NC) the twenty-somethings are contra dancing to
techno music at private parties. I hear the music is LOUD, and the dances
are stream-of-consciousness marathons. Not my cup of tea, but it's
interesting how it's evolving with our young'uns. (I don't think it will
ever replace the more traditional style of contra dancing!)
~Barbara
6:49 p.m.
I have seen videos of the techo-contras and must admit, I do see the attraction. Something
that will not break my eardrums though I would like better. I think there is a place for
music that keeps the beat for dancers yet is more exciting than the "trad"
tunes. I know of no bands that are doing that. I definitely have a preference for live
music and not a DJ. where I do hope it is not going.
Every generation wants to "raise the bar". When I started calling in 1982, our
more traditional callers thought this "new" stuff (more active dances, more
notey tunes) was going to ruin contradancing. The traditionalists are needed to stand
their ground and the new ones are necessary so that things do not stagnate. There is the
conflict, and the balance - this see-sawing keeps it going.
--- On Tue, 1/12/10, Barbara Groh <barbaragroh(a)bellsouth.net> wrote:
From: Barbara Groh <barbaragroh(a)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: [Callers] Music for contras
To: "Caller's discussion list" <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 2:19 PM
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#2 I wonder if we are looking at a seperation between
traditional and a new style of dancing, not unlike
what happened 40 years ago +/-
If there is going to be (if it hasn't already begun)
a divergance in dance styles and preferances.
In our area (Asheville, NC) the twenty-somethings are contra dancing to techno music at
private parties. I hear the music is LOUD, and the dances are stream-of-consciousness
marathons. Not my cup of tea, but it's interesting how it's evolving with our
young'uns. (I don't think it will ever replace the more traditional style of
contra dancing!)
~Barbara
6:57 p.m.
I agree with the comments that people have been making. It's fun, I
enjoy it in moderation. Too much becomes gimmicky and unwelcome. It must
always be danceable or it's not fun. I know some of the groups that are
working on a more rock and roll or techno feel and when they've asked
for feedback, I've tried to steer them towards keeping it danceable and
about the dancers, not them.
I experienced a techno-contra, Asheville style at the Youth Dance
Weekend this last fall. I had fun. Sat down when I needed a rest and got
up and danced when I didn't. There were difficult sections where
phrasing was nonexistent and even the caller got lost. These dances are
for experienced dancers. No one else could pull it off. That will make
it very difficult in keeping them going for more than a few years. There
needs to be a more traditional group where people can go and learn
before they're ready for a techno contra. I also think that people will
miss the back and forth between live musicians and the dancers. I'm not
too worried that the current contra tradition will disappear. It will
keep evolving, but it won't disappear.
Chris Weiler
Goffstown, NH
Barbara Groh wrote:
#2 I wonder if we are looking at a seperation between
traditional and a new style of dancing, not unlike
what happened 40 years ago +/-
If there is going to be (if it hasn't already begun)
a divergance in dance styles and preferances.
In our area (Asheville, NC) the twenty-somethings are contra dancing
to techno music at private parties. I hear the music is LOUD, and the
dances are stream-of-consciousness marathons. Not my cup of tea, but
it's interesting how it's evolving with our young'uns. (I don't think
it will ever replace the more traditional style of contra dancing!)
~Barbara
>>
>>
>> 
3:47 p.m.
Indeed, I have noticed a tendency recently to play really "funky"
tunes. Personally, I'm all for variety in music—I'm cool with
anything from violins to electric guitar to djembes to glass
harmonica—but if I can't follow the phrasing, it's a lousy tune to
contra dance (or waltz) to, and I'm going to think much less of the
band.
This has been especially problematic with waltzes at the Concord
dances I've been to recently—I'll guesstimate that 20% of them are
just not good to dance to. As an example, one recent tune had an
extra half phrase, making the downbeat shift and causing me to think I
was leading with the wrong foot all the time!
5427
days inactive
5427
days old
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
7 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
Barbara Groh -
Charles M. Hannum -
Chris Weiler (home) -
gtwood＠worldpath.net -
ledas＠pacbell.net -
Lindsay Morris -
Martha Edwards -
Tom Hinds