19 Mar
2012
19 Mar
'12
7:36 p.m.
Greg, I think you misunderstood the tone and some of the substance of what Don
Coffey-- not Coffee-- said. I also think you made some erroneous assumptions about
where he's coming from.
He is not an ardent modern western square dancer, first of all. Yes, he's danced
MWSD but left after a few years for some of the reasons he cites. And I certainly
didn't think any of what he wrote was an attack on those who enjoy contras. I
have no interest in reigniting flame wars between contras and squares; many of
us have been through those destructive exchanges.
I posted Don's comments because I thought they were a thoughtful look a some paralles
that he finds of concern; if anything those comments could be thought of as "the
helpful admonition of a friend." Indeed, I felt that your response was far more
intemperate than his comments.
One of the things I've enjoyed about another listserv-- the trad-dance-callers
list-- is that it includes enthusiasts from the worlds of traditional squares,
contemporary contras, modern western squares, and so on, all sharing information
and thoughts from our different perspectives. This SharedWeight list, though it
focuses most of the time on contras, has also been notable over the years for
civil discourse. I'm sorry that you seemed to take my post as an attack on a form
of dance you like, as do I. It certainly wasn't meant that way.
David Millstone
Lebanon, NH
21 Mar
21 Mar
1:26 p.m.
New subject: Contra / MWSD parallels?
Oh my!
My last post certainly generated some heated responses. I was admonished
for “name calling” (there was none, from anyone here). I was told I was
“intemperate,” and one person even said, off line, that my post was
“hateful.”
All of this because I questioned the common assertion that something is
terribly wrong with the modern contra dance movement because most of those
folks don’t enjoy dancing squares?
I did not imply that anyone is ignorant of the traditions of their own
favored dance form. I certainly did not say that anyone had a
“horse-blinder focus.” And I most certainly have never gone to any dance
series, presented a dance form that I knew was not an appreciated part of
their tradition, and then admonished those folks for not being “open to new
experiences.” That would be insensitive and inconsiderate.
We all need to remember that this is not a zero-sum game. I know that the
vast majority of people will never enjoy dancing contras. This fact does
not diminish my enjoyment of them, nor does it diminish the contra dance
tradition. As a caller I am working in service to that tradition, and in
service to the community.
Times have changed. In some towns there was once only one venue for
dancing. These days most dancers have options, and are free to explore any
new experience they choose. That is a good thing. Dance callers should
consider respecting the choices the dancers, themselves, make.
Greg McKenzie
2 p.m.
New subject: Contra / MWSD parallels?
On Mar 21, 2012, at 1:26 PM, Greg McKenzie wrote:
All of this because I questioned the common assertion
that something is
terribly wrong with the modern contra dance movement because most of those
folks don’t enjoy dancing squares?
Actually, no. "All of this" is because you missed the point. All of this has
nothing to do with whether or not contra dancers enjoy dancing squares. The point is that
modern western squares dancing took what some people think was a wrong turn that tended to
make their events socially exclusive, rather than inclusive. Don Coffey is merely
cautioning us not to follow that trend and go down a similar path.
Note to Charles: I was president of NEFFA from 2008 to 2011. I can assure you that NEFFA
and NESRDC do not snipe at each other, nor do they plan their festivals at times that
intentionally conflict. In 2012, the festivals will be held one week apart.
2:19 p.m.
New subject: Contra / MWSD parallels?
I think Bob is absolutely right about the point of the original post;
it's to point out supposed parallels between this community and the
square dance community of the 50s as a cautionary tale.
That said, I wholeheartedly disagree with the parallels Don Coffey's
trying to draw here. I just don't see how standardizing individual
dance moves has anything to do with dancing more duple improper contra
dances. For the square dancers, standardizing dance moves led to
lessons on how to do particular moves and a less inclusory dance
space. Dancing more duple impropers won't do the same thing-- if
anything it's easier and more accessible for beginners to learn dances
that happen in just one formation.
Modern contra dances, in my understanding, have less standardized
dance moves than what people were doing thirty years ago (though
perhaps not than what people were doing 150 years ago). Moreover,
unlike the square dance club community, we have a vibrant live music
tradition that is showing no signs of erosion.
As people on this list have discussed over the past few days, there
are advantages and disadvantages to including forms other than duple
improper in nightly programs. But the view that a contras-only
movement will lead to the decline of contra dance, the way the western
square dance club movement declined, is in my view misplaced.
-Dave
On 3/21/12, Robert Golder <robertgolder(a)comcast.net> wrote:
On Mar 21, 2012, at 1:26 PM, Greg McKenzie wrote:
--
David Casserly
(cell) 781 258-2761
All of this because I questioned the common
assertion that something is
terribly wrong with the modern contra dance movement because most of those
folks don’t enjoy dancing squares?
Actually, no. "All of this" is because you missed the point. All of this has
nothing to do with whether or not contra dancers enjoy dancing squares. The
point is that modern western squares dancing took what some people think was
a wrong turn that tended to make their events socially exclusive, rather
than inclusive. Don Coffey is merely cautioning us not to follow that trend
and go down a similar path.
Note to Charles: I was president of NEFFA from 2008 to 2011. I can assure
you that NEFFA and NESRDC do not snipe at each other, nor do they plan their
festivals at times that intentionally conflict. In 2012, the festivals will
be held one week apart.
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3 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
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Dave Casserly -
David.Millstone＠valley.net -
Greg McKenzie -
Robert Golder