15 Mar
2006
15 Mar
'06
7:18 p.m.
Yes I understand what you mean. All of your points are valid points. I guess all of our
experiences are different. I've never been to your dance and I don't think
you've seen me teach a beginning workshop. I have a couple of points for you to
think about. It is possible to get most beginners (maybe 95%) to do the buzz step in
about 10 minutes. To do it you have to teach one thing at a time and work from the ground
up (feet, then knees, then upper body). Some of them might regress into a sloppy swing
during the regular dance but I did give them the opportunity.
The problem with teaching the walking step swing is that once people learn it, it is VERY
difficult to unlearn. Not worth the effort for many. I called a dance in North
Carolina where most of the dancers were fairly skilled. Except, all of the men did the
walking step swing. Why? Because the walking step swing is taught at the beginning
lesson. So, I spent a good 10 minutes of the regular dance teaching them the buzz step
swing. They all got it. They retained it for one dance.
Here's another reason:
One move that is in every dance is the swing. Many dances have two swings. If you listed
all of the moves that you called in an evening and the amount of time spent dancing each
move, the swing would be at the top of the list. The amount of time swinging might even
be more than many of the other top moves combined. Why not concentrate on the move that
is done the most and gives (many people) the most enjoyment?
Chris mentioned the issue with reaction time. Great observation! My workshops for the
first 15 minutes or so center on two main things: reaction time and progression. I
really can't describe what I do but is is kinda of like a gently hash calling in
contra formation. To be honest, I have always used only 8 beat swings in the first two
dances of the evening and have never seen any problems with the beginners ending a swing
on time. For me it's the dancers who have a bit of experience and imitate the
experienced dancers who end swings late-twirl, twirl, twirl.
Tom
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Today's Topics:
1. Teaching a Swing (laleslierjg(a)comcast.net)
2. Calling Katie's Trip to Starbase 12 (Rickey)
3. Re: Calling Katie's Trip to Starbase 12 (David Millstone)
4. Re: Teaching a Swing (barb kirchner)
5. Re: Calling Katie's Trip to Starbase 12 (Seth Tepfer)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 00:25:13 +0000
From: laleslierjg(a)comcast.net
Subject: [Callers] Teaching a Swing
To: callers(a)sharedweight.net
Message-ID:
<031520060025.10891.44175EE90000FBDC00002A8B220075074409069D0A07049C0A040E04(a)comcast.net>
I heartily agree with Chris on the stepping or walking swing for beginners! My husband,
Bob Golder, who has been dancing for 30 years, and several other very experienced dancers,
only do a walking swing. They can keep up with the fastest of buzz step swinging partners,
and are very smooth. The stepping swing is easy to teach, and is a natural movement for
dancers. In addition, it keeps them moving smoothly. I always tell them that when they are
ready, and feel it in the movement, they will naturally begin buzz step swinging. And even
if they don't, walking swings can be just as terrific!
And in general to everyone, it is very enjoyable to be on this email list! The
discussions and suggestions are thought provoking and very helpful. Thanks to everyone!
warmly, Linda Leslie
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:30:24 -0500
From: Seth Tepfer <labst(a)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: [Callers] Calling Katie's Trip to Starbase 12
To: millstone(a)VALLEY.NET, "Caller's discussion list"
<callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Cc: callers(a)sharedweight.net
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20060315082648.06adff28(a)pop3.service.emory.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
At 09:56 PM 3/14/2006, David Millstone wrote:
Hi Tom,
I agree with all but two of these. Here's why I disagree:
2) Beginners have a delay in their reaction times to calls. They have to
process the call, translate it to what they know before they can tell
their bodies what to do. This is unlike an experienced dancer who has
muscle memory tied directly to the ears (or something like that). 8^)
When I have called to dances with a high percentage of beginners, the
dances with 8 count swings, by the time the dancers get into swing
position and start turning, they can't even get around once sometimes. 8
count swings also indicate a higher piece count in the dance and make it
more difficult. I have had better luck with 12 count swings when dealing
with beginners.
8) I am convinced that (with rare exceptions) when you teach someone
anything about the swing, they only can move up one notch along the
learning curve. They can only keep one instruction in mind when they are
practicing the swing. It took me a long time to learn how to buzz step
well and to incorporate it in such a way that didn't cause discomfort
for my partner. Since the swing is one of the first, hardest and most
common moves that they learn, it needs to be easy and quick to learn.
That's why I teach the walking swing. They have enough to learn about
posture, frame and dealing with eye contact. Why burden them with extra
information when they already know how to walk forward and it will work
just as well? By all means, let them know that the buzz step exists and
show them what it looks like. But also let them know that they don't
have to do it for a swing to be fun. I can show someone how to do a
walking swing in less than 30 seconds and have them dancing and their
mind will be clear enough to learn the other calls that they are being
taught. I have seen too many people befuddled by the buzz step and in a
daze while the first dance is being taught.
Hmmm... I guess that number 8 touched a nerve... 8^)
Happy Dancing,
Chris
http://www.chrisweiler.ws/
Tom Hinds wrote:
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 21:26:12 -0500
From: "Rickey" <holt.e(a)comcast.net>
Subject: [Callers] Calling Katie's Trip to Starbase 12
To: <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Message-ID: <000001c647d7$d70a3930$5f511e42@maxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi,
I got such great responses to my very first question posted to this list
that I thought I'd try another. "Katie's Trip to Starbase 12", by
Merilee
Karr calls for a "Swinging Star" (a double star, both wrist grip right-hand
star and left hands across star at the same time). This takes up all of B1.
The number of times around is not specified in my version. It can take a
bit of time to get this star together, and as it uses a buzz step, it can
really get going once assembled - so the lack of instructions as to the
number of revolutions may be intentional. B2 starts with the left-hand
hands across star, and it is important where that one ends. Perhaps the
only thing to do is to point out where this second star ends when teaching
the dance. Has anyone else on this list called the dance? How do you deal
with this?
Thanks,
Rickey Holt.
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: 14 Mar 2006 21:56:59 EST
From: David.Millstone(a)VALLEY.NET (David Millstone)
Subject: Re: [Callers] Calling Katie's Trip to Starbase 12
To: callers(a)sharedweight.net
Message-ID: <7901099(a)retriever.VALLEY.NET>
Content-Type: text/plain
I used to call it a lot-- the swinging star is a nice gimmick and when you're in
the right foursome, you can have a great time in that figure.
It occurred to me that many of the behaviors on
this list are due to
insecurity (dancing with other beginners, waiting to be asked etc.) That got
me to thinking about what callers can do to make sure the beginners have a
good experience. So, I've come up with my own list for callers. These items
may contain items that some may not agree with. But this may generate some
good discussion.
10 things a caller can do to help beginners have a good experience:
1) Prepare a logical program that starts easy and builds.
2) Like a professional dance teacher, warm up muscles slowly. Use dances
with 8 count swings (max) early in the evening. Keep the first couple of
dances shorter. New and not so new dancers are entering the hall and you want
them up and dancing sooner rather than later,
3) Be prepared well enough so that you don't have to use cards. Watch the
dancers. Watch the dancers.
4) Encourage everyone to dance with everyone else. When a dance ends,
suggest that those who just danced ask those sitting out for the next dance.
5) Demonstrate what smooth dancing looks like (especially if many newbees are
skipping).
6) Teach safe dancing - like proper allemandes. If you see dancers dancing
out of control take measures to make sure that they don't hurt anyone.
7) If you make a mistake, admit it. Often if something doesn't work, the new
dancers think it's because of them.
8) Teach the buzz step swing in the beginning workshop. Teach it well.
9) If a dance has a tricky move, show the dancers how to perform the move
with finesse. If the dance has a challenge in the timing department,
communicate to the dancers how to be on time.
10) If you call a challenging dance and the new dancers look a bit confused,
tell the crowd that that was a very difficult dance and that they handled it
very well (this one from Ted Sannella). If the dance was so challenging that
sets broke down, tell the dancers that you picked a bad dance (in other words
it's you, not them).
Tom Hinds
------------------------------
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End of Callers Digest, Vol 19, Issue 11
*************************************** the lack of instructions as to the number of
revolutions may be intentional
Yes, I think that's the case. And yes, I agree with your solution to emphasize
where you end up the LH star.
In one of those wonderful cross-country leaps (Merilee Karr is in Portland, OR,
and Seth Tepfer is in Atlanta), nspired by Merilee's dance, Seth wrote another,
Swinging on a Star." I often use that one instead. I like the way it ends
slightly better than the original.
Seth's dance is here:
http://www.dancerhapsody.com/index.cfm?FuseAction=Choreography#SwinginStar
Both dances, in my opinion, work better if not allowed to run too long.
David Millstone
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 06:25:59 +0000
From: "barb kirchner" <barbkirchner(a)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Callers] Teaching a Swing
To: callers(a)sharedweight.net
Message-ID: <BAY102-F183417EA38F92C9527B4EADEE60(a)phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
i also strongly agree! i *never* teach a buzz-step swing. i *do* demo a
swing with one person walking and one person buzzing, and point out to them
that they can walk to matter what the other person is doing.
i also tell them that after awhile, they will "feel" the buzz step, and when
they do, they should go ahead and try it out.
in my mind, it's more important to explain to everyone that they need to
carry their own weight during a swing. i also tell them that it's important
to swing in a way that's comfortable for both people, and "comfortable" is
the important word here.
also, the swing is the first thing i teach - it's the one figure that's
guaranteed to be in every dance. as soon as they figure out "lady on the
right" and the pointy hands thing, i'm ready to line them up.
it's my perception that if they can get oriented at the end of a swing and
be comfortable with that, they don't have much trouble getting oriented once
they're in line. so i teach the swing first, they are scattered around the
area. i explain about the pointy hands, then have them swing and end with
the pointy hands facing me. doing it again, face down the hall. do it
again, face the stage. they lady's always on the right, they get used to
following instructions - lots of info about orientation and position in a
small, coherent lump in a short time!
i see so many people swinging poorly these days, especially at places like
the thursday night dance and greenfield - the focus always seems to be how
many twirls/dips you can fit in, and there is no comprehension of the
musical phrase. i also hear a lot of guys complaining about chronic right
shoulder pain...
i'd be interested to hear anyone's thoughts on the current state of the
swing and what we, as people trying to set good examples in our communities,
might do about it. even if we teach new dancers good form, what can be done
about poor form from experienced dancers?
barb
http://www.barbkirchner.us
----Original Message Follows----
From: laleslierjg(a)comcast.net
Reply-To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
To: callers(a)sharedweight.net
Subject: [Callers] Teaching a Swing
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 00:25:13 +0000
I heartily agree with Chris on the stepping or walking swing for beginners!
My husband, Bob Golder, who has been dancing for 30 years, and several other
very experienced dancers, only do a walking swing. They can keep up with the
fastest of buzz step swinging partners, and are very smooth. The stepping
swing is easy to teach, and is a natural movement for dancers. In addition,
it keeps them moving smoothly. I always tell them that when they are ready,
and feel it in the movement, they will naturally begin buzz step swinging.
And even if they don't, walking swings can be just as terrific!
And in general to everyone, it is very enjoyable to be on this email list!
The discussions and suggestions are thought provoking and very helpful.
Thanks to everyone!
warmly, Linda Leslie
Hi Tom,
I agree with all but two of these. Here's why I disagree:
2) Beginners have a delay in their reaction times to calls. They have to
process the call, translate it to what they know before they can tell
their bodies what to do. This is unlike an experienced dancer who has
muscle memory tied directly to the ears (or something like that). 8^)
When I have called to dances with a high percentage of beginners, the
dances with 8 count swings, by the time the dancers get into swing
position and start turning, they can't even get around once sometimes. 8
count swings also indicate a higher piece count in the dance and make it
more difficult. I have had better luck with 12 count swings when dealing
with beginners.
8) I am convinced that (with rare exceptions) when you teach someone
anything about the swing, they only can move up one notch along the
learning curve. They can only keep one instruction in mind when they are
practicing the swing. It took me a long time to learn how to buzz step
well and to incorporate it in such a way that didn't cause discomfort
for my partner. Since the swing is one of the first, hardest and most
common moves that they learn, it needs to be easy and quick to learn.
That's why I teach the walking swing. They have enough to learn about
posture, frame and dealing with eye contact. Why burden them with extra
information when they already know how to walk forward and it will work
just as well? By all means, let them know that the buzz step exists and
show them what it looks like. But also let them know that they don't
have to do it for a swing to be fun. I can show someone how to do a
walking swing in less than 30 seconds and have them dancing and their
mind will be clear enough to learn the other calls that they are being
taught. I have seen too many people befuddled by the buzz step and in a
daze while the first dance is being taught.
Hmmm... I guess that number 8 touched a nerve... 8^)
Happy Dancing,
Chris
http://www.chrisweiler.ws/
Tom Hinds wrote:
> It occurred to me that many of the behaviors on this list are due to
>insecurity (dancing with other beginners, waiting to be asked etc.)
That got
>me to thinking about what callers can do to
make sure the beginners have
a
>good experience. So, I've come up with
my own list for callers. These
items
>may contain items that some may not agree
with. But this may generate
some
>good discussion.
>
>10 things a caller can do to help beginners have a good experience:
>
>1) Prepare a logical program that starts easy and builds.
>
>2) Like a professional dance teacher, warm up muscles slowly. Use
dances
>with 8 count swings (max) early in the
evening. Keep the first couple
of
>dances shorter. New and not so new dancers
are entering the hall and
you want
>them up and dancing sooner rather than
later,
>
>3) Be prepared well enough so that you don't have to use cards. Watch
the
>dancers. Watch the dancers.
>
>4) Encourage everyone to dance with everyone else. When a dance ends,
>suggest that those who just danced ask those sitting out for the next
dance.
>
>5) Demonstrate what smooth dancing looks like (especially if many
newbees
are
>skipping).
>
>6) Teach safe dancing - like proper allemandes. If you see dancers
dancing
>out of control take measures to make sure
that they don't hurt anyone.
>
>7) If you make a mistake, admit it. Often if something doesn't work,
the
new
>dancers think it's because of them.
>
>8) Teach the buzz step swing in the beginning workshop. Teach it well.
>
>9) If a dance has a tricky move, show the dancers how to perform the
move
>with finesse. If the dance has a challenge
in the timing department,
>communicate to the dancers how to be on time.
>
>10) If you call a challenging dance and the new dancers look a bit
confused,
>tell the crowd that that was a very difficult
dance and that they
handled it
>very well (this one from Ted Sannella). If
the dance was so challenging
that
>sets broke down, tell the dancers that you
picked a bad dance (in other
words
it's
you, not them).
Tom Hinds
------------------------------
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End of Callers Digest, Vol 19, Issue 11
*************************************** In one of those wonderful cross-country leaps
(Merilee Karr is in
Portland, OR,
and Seth Tepfer is in Atlanta), inspired by Merilee's dance,
It is worth mentioning that when I first started to dance in 1993 Merilee's
dance was common in GA and FL. I had no idea who Merilee was, or where she
lived.
Seth wrote another,
http://www.dancerhapsody.com/index.cfm?FuseAction=Choreography#SwinginStar
My wife mentioned that she got dizzy in the original, when doing the
swinging star (to the right) followed by the left hand star. I always
thought that switching direction would lessen the dizziness, but hey, what
do I know? I love that swinging star move, so for her I wrote a slightly
different version that continued the star to the right - right into the
neighbor swing.
Glad you like it!
------------------------------
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End of Callers Digest, Vol 19, Issue 12
***************************************
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