Rather than limit which dances get on the database and how, why not allow reviews of said dances.  If it had a clunky moment for one dancer, tends to get saw toothed, or has other issues, it might get fewer stars and an explanation.  Choreographers could choose to pull or amend a dance so reviewed, and callers could decide for themselves whether the reviews will apply in their situation.  The folk process works better the more information and dances are out there, not by artificially limiting, based on some committees personal tastes and particular filters regarding appropriateness.  There might be some requirement that a dance needs to have been successfully danced by at least two or three communities to qualify or something so every person who thinks they can write doesn't post a bunch of useless dances.  I think making it be more work for CDSS  to put a dance up impedes the project unnecessarily.  I do, however, like the idea of having links to choreographers' websites, and maybe even a caller's companion-sequel search engine, so one could look for say, an biter mediate dance with a hey and a mad robin, and come up with all the dances in the database which fulfill the request. My two cents, Andrea Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)sharedweight.net http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers

On 12/11/2013 3:51 AM, Perry Shafran wrote: True enough, but hearing the experience of others with those dances can be really helpful. Just like on a recipe site, reading the comments can make a world of difference. If a preponderance of the commenters say "the dough was really sticky when freshly mixed, but a few minutes in the fridge made it perfectly easy to handle," or "letting the dancers who are out at the ends know not to cross over until _after_ the partner dosido solved the end effect problem," that would be really useful information to have. I'm all in favor of putting the dances up in original form, but followup user commentary is also incredibly helpful. Kalia _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)sharedweight.net http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers

I believe that it's important to have the contra dances in a database be in a standardized format. This will make it much easier for people to use them, to exchange them, and I hope will improve the folk process. I've started discussion and coding on an interchange format and have a lot of ideas about making a database. I started working on this about a year ago, but got distracted. I would love to work on it again. The main thing I need help with is making sure people have interest in what I'm doing and getting feedback on my work. For those that are technically minded, the small start that I've made is here: https://github.com/clahey/folkdancedb/wiki/_pages I would love any feedback people have about the semantics rules and format. Looking at it from the point of view of a user, I realize there is probably a lot of complexity there, but hopefully any of that complexity will be hidden from users by whatever software there is. If people have any suggestions of ways to make this simpler while still keeping accuracy, please make suggestions. I've also realized that there's no example files, so I will make that my first task. Well maybe my second task with my first task being a TODO page. Again, the URL for the wiki is currently: https://github.com/clahey/folkdancedb/wiki/_pages On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 5:46 PM, Les Addison <les.addison(a)gmail.com> wrote: _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)sharedweight.net http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers

With a standard format, it would be interesting to then consider a graphics portions of the database, which could provide a visualization of the dance. And speaking of videos, it would be worth considering storing links to actual videos of the dances. Mark Hillegonds Cell: 734-756-8441 Email: mhillegonds(a)comcast.net On Dec 11, 2013, at 6:30 PM, Chris Lahey <clahey(a)clahey.net> wrote: _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)sharedweight.net http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers

You're absolutely right that something like that could go up fairly quickly. I'm just afraid that it would take away from the possibility of something much more useful, though harder to obtain. I don't think it's forking the discussion to discuss whether this is a good idea. On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 8:21 PM, Alan Winston <winston(a)slac.stanford.edu> wrote: > I think this discussion is forking already. > > If contra dances are going in Caller's Companion Online, or whatever, then, > yes, a standardized format is very important, and the XML-coded dances can > be searchable blobs in a database with links to video, suggested audio > tracks, calendars, or whatever. > > However, if what we're talking about is a textual representation of contra > dance instructions posted by someone official with comments available on the > post then all we need is some Wordpress software, a commenter code of > conduct, and someone with a stick to who's able to remove inappropriate > comments. And the dance instructions don't actually have to use > standardized terminology or a standardized format; they're just text files. > If you want to make them searchable by, eg, 'hey for four', etc, you can > attach keyword tags to the post. > > If the intellectual property concerns are sorted out, the technology is a > done deal already. > > I would even say that you could just give posting rights to anyone who asks > for them with the understanding that they'll only post their own stuff. > Community upvote/downvote will pretty clearly, and soon, show who's posting > dances worth looking at. CDSS doesn't have to maintain an editorial > function; this can be useful regardless. > > -- Alan > > > On 12/11/2013 4:57 PM, Mark Hillegonds wrote: >> >> With a standard format, it would be interesting to then consider a >> graphics portions of the database, which could provide a visualization of >> the dance. >> >> And speaking of videos, it would be worth considering storing links to >> actual videos of the dances. >> >> Mark Hillegonds >> >> Cell: 734-756-8441 >> Email: mhillegonds(a)comcast.net >> >> On Dec 11, 2013, at 6:30 PM, Chris Lahey <clahey(a)clahey.net> wrote: >> >>> I believe that it's important to have the contra dances in a database >>> be in a standardized format. This will make it much easier for people >>> to use them, to exchange them, and I hope will improve the folk >>> process. >>> >>> I've started discussion and coding on an interchange format and have a >>> lot of ideas about making a database. I started working on this about >>> a year ago, but got distracted. I would love to work on it again. >>> The main thing I need help with is making sure people have interest in >>> what I'm doing and getting feedback on my work. >>> >>> For those that are technically minded, the small start that I've made >>> is here: https://github.com/clahey/folkdancedb/wiki/_pages I would >>> love any feedback people have about the semantics rules and format. >>> >>> Looking at it from the point of view of a user, I realize there is >>> probably a lot of complexity there, but hopefully any of that >>> complexity will be hidden from users by whatever software there is. >>> If people have any suggestions of ways to make this simpler while >>> still keeping accuracy, please make suggestions. >>> >>> I've also realized that there's no example files, so I will make that >>> my first task. Well maybe my second task with my first task being a >>> TODO page. >>> >>> Again, the URL for the wiki is currently: >>> https://github.com/clahey/folkdancedb/wiki/_pages >>> >>> On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 5:46 PM, Les Addison <les.addison(a)gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> +1 to Andrea and Kalia. >>>> >>>> I like the idea of an online repository with notes/comments. It is >>>> possible to set up a wiki so that people can upload a dance and that >>>> only >>>> comments to the dance can be made by others/edited. >>>> >>>> I understand not wanting to have Yelp-like problems with phony reviews >>>> and >>>> grudge-fests, but I think that is something that can be maintained via >>>> requiring CDSS membership and a non-anonymous log in/commenting >>>> mechanism. >>>> >>>> Les >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 12:44 PM, Kalia Kliban <kalia(a)sbcglobal.net> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 12/11/2013 3:51 AM, Perry Shafran wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I'm trying to figure out why having a database of dances would detract >>>>>> from the folk process. Isn't the folk process considered the handing >>>>>> down >>>>>> of material from person to person, generation to generation? And >>>>>> should >>>>>> that not also include the way that material is handed down? I think >>>>>> that a >>>>>> database of dances is extremely helpful to the evolution of the folk >>>>>> process. When the web evolved, people put their dances on the web for >>>>>> all >>>>>> to see, use, adapt. Now we have the cloud, and callers can share >>>>>> their >>>>>> dances using a cloud-based database. Considering that this is what >>>>>> was >>>>>> highly requested on the survey, I think that we need to find ways to >>>>>> create >>>>>> this repository of dances that also respects the rights of the >>>>>> choreographers who write them. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> True enough, but hearing the experience of others with those dances can >>>>> be >>>>> really helpful. Just like on a recipe site, reading the comments can >>>>> make >>>>> a world of difference. If a preponderance of the commenters say "the >>>>> dough >>>>> was really sticky when freshly mixed, but a few minutes in the fridge >>>>> made >>>>> it perfectly easy to handle," or "letting the dancers who are out at >>>>> the >>>>> ends know not to cross over until _after_ the partner dosido solved the >>>>> end >>>>> effect problem," that would be really useful information to have. I'm >>>>> all >>>>> in favor of putting the dances up in original form, but followup user >>>>> commentary is also incredibly helpful. >>>>> >>>>> Kalia >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Callers mailing list >>>>> Callers(a)sharedweight.net >>>>> http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Callers mailing list >>>> Callers(a)sharedweight.net >>>> http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Callers mailing list >>> Callers(a)sharedweight.net >>> http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Callers mailing list >> Callers(a)sharedweight.net >> http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers > > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)sharedweight.net > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers