2 Oct
2015
2 Oct
'15
11:53 a.m.
I think that rolling starts (seamless transition from walkthrough into the
dance, as the band just starts playing music during the walkthrough) are
super neat if done properly! But I'm still not quite sure how to do them
properly. So I ask you all:
1) tips on how to execute a rolling start well, making sure all the dancers
are on board etc.?
2) thoughts on what dances/tunes will/won't work well with a rolling start?
Cheers,
Maia
2 Oct
2 Oct
12:01 p.m.
I also like rolling starts. One of my bands has a few sets where we
greatly prefer it, and try to work with callers to make it happen.
What has worked well for me in the past is having a tune where the start of
the dance can happen every two bars or so (in other words, a tune that is
not harmonically complicated). Making walkthrough prompts in time with the
music, but not giving a particular set amount of time to each call seems to
work well. Dances that end with a move that can be extended (allemande,
swing, etc) can help sync if you need that extra beat or two. I've found
that rolling starts work well with a dance that starts with a balance, as
that can make it very clear where the dance starts. Otherwise, asking the
band for four soft potatoes at the end of the rolling start can be helpful.
Hope that helps!
-Dave
On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 11:53 AM, Maia McCormick via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I think that rolling starts (seamless transition from
walkthrough into the
dance, as the band just starts playing music during the walkthrough) are
super neat if done properly! But I'm still not quite sure how to do them
properly. So I ask you all:
1) tips on how to execute a rolling start well, making sure all the
dancers are on board etc.?
2) thoughts on what dances/tunes will/won't work well with a rolling start?
Cheers,
Maia
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
--
David Casserly
(cell) 781 258-2761
12:11 p.m.
If the band can play a repeated 8 count chord progression from which they
can easily go into the top of the tune, it gives you a phrase to call to,
but if you need to slow down, or fix something, you have that option too --
then you can just get yourself back on the phrase. Other than the fact
that I flubbed the first call of the dance, I am pretty happy with the one
in this video of me with Atlantic Crossing. It wasn't a planned thing (and
planning is definitely a good idea the first time you do it. In
particular, planning how you will cue the band in, whether you want them to
actually do potatoes, or just use your first call (WITH your NEIGHbor
BALance NOW, with some good punch) as the potatoes.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq1tKJb7z-Q
At it's best, it gives you a chance to do two walk thrus if needed, without
the dancers feeling like you're doing too much teaching. The first time,
you can be teaching completely off the phrase, or the band can sneak in
halfway through the first time. Then the second time, you move to being
more on the phrase. Once you're on the phrase, you have effectively agreed
with the band on a tempo and can stick with that as you move into the
dance, so there's really not a need for actual potatoes. As long as you
have your sign worked out with the band (beating the last 4 beats with your
hand, calling with some punch for the first call, patting the top of your
head (to indicate that you're coming up on the top of the dance) or
whatever.) Please note, that if you don't have things worked out with the
band, it can be pretty messy and awkward. Rather similar to the first time
I tried to do one -- the band just started playing a bit under the walk
through and I had no clue of how to cue them in!
J
On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 12:01 PM Dave Casserly via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I also like rolling starts. One of my bands has a few
sets where we
greatly prefer it, and try to work with callers to make it happen.
What has worked well for me in the past is having a tune where the start
of the dance can happen every two bars or so (in other words, a tune that
is not harmonically complicated). Making walkthrough prompts in time with
the music, but not giving a particular set amount of time to each call
seems to work well. Dances that end with a move that can be extended
(allemande, swing, etc) can help sync if you need that extra beat or two.
I've found that rolling starts work well with a dance that starts with a
balance, as that can make it very clear where the dance starts. Otherwise,
asking the band for four soft potatoes at the end of the rolling start can
be helpful.
Hope that helps!
-Dave
On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 11:53 AM, Maia McCormick via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
--
Jack Mitchell
Durham, NC
I think that rolling starts (seamless transition
from walkthrough into
the dance, as the band just starts playing music during the walkthrough)
are super neat if done properly! But I'm still not quite sure how to do
them properly. So I ask you all:
1) tips on how to execute a rolling start well, making sure all the
dancers are on board etc.?
2) thoughts on what dances/tunes will/won't work well with a rolling
start?
Cheers,
Maia
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
--
David Casserly
(cell) 781 258-2761
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
2:15 p.m.
Hi Maia,
I agree with everything Jack and Dave wrote! Successful rolling starts have comprised some
of my most memorable dancing moments, so I'm always seeking opportunities to work on
them as a caller. Some more thoughts:
-Preplanned vs spontaneous rolling starts. When I decided to start working on rolling
starts, I preplanned with a band that I knew loved them. We discussed: timing, signaling,
what to do if things failed to sync or fell apart. To my total delight, both rolling
starts worked. My next rolling start was a surprise to me- the band just jumped in behind
me! Some bands can and love to do this. Some callers love this, others don't. I've
stopped bands from vamping behind me if I knew I had a lot of explaining to do.
-Working with a band comfortable with rolling starts and comfortable with you. I've
only tried rolling starts with well-established bands; I've never taught a band how to
do a rolling start (trying to work on this now, actually). Consider first exploring them
with bands that you've seen execute rolling starts. These bands often have a caller in
them (ie Dave). Several musicians I've asked have expressed a dislike of rolling
starts, so don't take it personally if you're turned down. Also, there are several
style of rolling starts, so make sure that you and the band define what you're aiming
for.
-Picking the right dance. If it's easy enough to call as a no walkthrough, why bother
with a rolling start? Conversely, if it's complicated enough to deserve two full
walkthroughs with complete attention, probably not a great choice either. I look for a
dance that has a clear A1 (for the called potatoes, as Jack suggests, and for clueing the
band in), and just one or two "teaching points." This teaching point depends on
the crowd; it could be something such as a left diagonal move or a fractional hey. This
allows me to start the walkthrough in dance time, with, say, a neighbor balance and swing,
pause the action while dancers identify their left diagonal next neighbors, and then
resume the walkthrough at dance pace. If needed, I'll wait an extra eight beats for
people to complete moves on the first walkthrough. Once the dance is "rolling"
at dance tempo, you'll need to make sure that you and the band are synced. This very
much depends on the band:
-Signaling. There are lots of options here; find out what your band likes. What I've
done in the past: I tell them what my B2/A1 moves are, line dancers up, and let the band
start vamping. Once there is an established groove, I focus on the dancers and face away
from the band vamping behind me. Then, when approaching the A1 at "go time," I
turn to the band (making sure I have my mic in my hand, not on the stand- may have
forgotten that once!), make eye contact, and with deliberation, bounce on the potatoes
while delivering the vocal potatoes to the dancers. Also, a common signal is to tap the
top of your head at the A1. Explore this with your band- lots of options! When bands just
start vamping behind me, this ignore until I'm ready trick seems to work as well.
-Troubleshooting. Things go wrong! I try to hold myself responsible for any hiccups,
regardless of whether or not the error was *really* my fault. Easiest fix: stop the band,
reset people up for potatoes. Other caller-initiated fixes for syncing: tell the band
where A1 needs to be, ask them to play an additional B part, have dancers swing an extra
eight beats, cut a long line one time through, etc. Fundamentally, fixing a rolling start
error is no different than fixing any timing error made while calling. My worst error was
when I found myself eight beats off from the band; they "launched" after I
expected. Amazingly, my band figured this out and fixed it before I had the chance to
panic! Musicians are amazing. :) Like any caller error, handling the situation with poise,
grace, and humor will placate most of the grumbles.
I'm sure I'll think of more I forgot to write, but I hope some of this rambling is
helpful!
Lindsey From: Jack Mitchell via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
To: Dave Casserly <david.j.casserly(a)gmail.com>om>; Maia McCormick
<maia.mcc(a)gmail.com>
Cc: "callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net" <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 9:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Callers] Rolling Starts?
If the band can play a repeated 8 count chord progression from which they can easily go
into the top of the tune, it gives you a phrase to call to, but if you need to slow down,
or fix something, you have that option too -- then you can just get yourself back on the
phrase. Other than the fact that I flubbed the first call of the dance, I am pretty happy
with the one in this video of me with Atlantic Crossing. It wasn't a planned thing
(and planning is definitely a good idea the first time you do it. In particular, planning
how you will cue the band in, whether you want them to actually do potatoes, or just use
your first call (WITH your NEIGHbor BALance NOW, with some good punch) as the potatoes.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq1tKJb7z-Q
At it's best, it gives you a chance to do two walk thrus if needed, without the
dancers feeling like you're doing too much teaching. The first time, you can be
teaching completely off the phrase, or the band can sneak in halfway through the first
time. Then the second time, you move to being more on the phrase. Once you're on the
phrase, you have effectively agreed with the band on a tempo and can stick with that as
you move into the dance, so there's really not a need for actual potatoes. As long as
you have your sign worked out with the band (beating the last 4 beats with your hand,
calling with some punch for the first call, patting the top of your head (to indicate that
you're coming up on the top of the dance) or whatever.) Please note, that if you
don't have things worked out with the band, it can be pretty messy and awkward.
Rather similar to the first time I tried to do one -- the band just started playing a bit
under the walk through and I had no clue of how to cue them in!
J
On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 12:01 PM Dave Casserly via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I also like rolling starts. One of my bands has a few sets where we greatly prefer it,
and try to work with callers to make it happen.
What has worked well for me in the past is having a tune where the start of the dance can
happen every two bars or so (in other words, a tune that is not harmonically
complicated). Making walkthrough prompts in time with the music, but not giving a
particular set amount of time to each call seems to work well. Dances that end with a
move that can be extended (allemande, swing, etc) can help sync if you need that extra
beat or two. I've found that rolling starts work well with a dance that starts with a
balance, as that can make it very clear where the dance starts. Otherwise, asking the
band for four soft potatoes at the end of the rolling start can be helpful.
Hope that helps!-Dave
On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 11:53 AM, Maia McCormick via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I think that rolling starts (seamless transition from walkthrough into the dance, as the
band just starts playing music during the walkthrough) are super neat if done properly!
But I'm still not quite sure how to do them properly. So I ask you all:1) tips on how
to execute a rolling start well, making sure all the dancers are on board etc.?2) thoughts
on what dances/tunes will/won't work well with a rolling start?
Cheers,Maia
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
--
David Casserly
(cell) 781 258-2761_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
--
Jack Mitchell
Durham, NC
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
3:23 p.m.
Wow Lindsey! this is extremely well thought out, articulated and verrrrryyy
helpful! As a very fledgling caller I had formulated these questions that
you have so graciously answered without my having to ask. Thank you. A
lot of good help here, I am printing them off to put into my tips and
training notes!
Every one has wonderful helpful ideas and tips too! Thank you to all the
callers that participate here!
Mary
On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 2:15 PM, Lindsey Dono via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Hi Maia,
I agree with everything Jack and Dave wrote! Successful rolling starts
have comprised some of my most memorable dancing moments, so I'm always
seeking opportunities to work on them as a caller. Some more thoughts:
-Preplanned vs spontaneous rolling starts. When I decided to start working
on rolling starts, I preplanned with a band that I knew loved them. We
discussed: timing, signaling, what to do if things failed to sync or fell
apart. To my total delight, both rolling starts worked. My next rolling
start was a surprise to me- the band just jumped in behind me! Some bands
can and love to do this. Some callers love this, others don't. I've stopped
bands from vamping behind me if I knew I had a lot of explaining to do.
-Working with a band comfortable with rolling starts and comfortable with
you. I've only tried rolling starts with well-established bands; I've never
taught a band how to do a rolling start (trying to work on this now,
actually). Consider first exploring them with bands that you've seen
execute rolling starts. These bands often have a caller in them (ie Dave).
Several musicians I've asked have expressed a dislike of rolling starts, so
don't take it personally if you're turned down. Also, there are several
style of rolling starts, so make sure that you and the band define what
you're aiming for.
-Picking the right dance. If it's easy enough to call as a no walkthrough,
why bother with a rolling start? Conversely, if it's complicated enough to
deserve two full walkthroughs with complete attention, probably not a great
choice either. I look for a dance that has a clear A1 (for the called
potatoes, as Jack suggests, and for clueing the band in), and just one or
two "teaching points." This teaching point depends on the crowd; it could
be something such as a left diagonal move or a fractional hey. This allows
me to start the walkthrough in dance time, with, say, a neighbor balance
and swing, pause the action while dancers identify their left diagonal next
neighbors, and then resume the walkthrough at dance pace. If needed, I'll
wait an extra eight beats for people to complete moves on the first
walkthrough. Once the dance is "rolling" at dance tempo, you'll need to
make sure that you and the band are synced. This very much depends on the
band:
-Signaling. There are lots of options here; find out what your band likes.
What I've done in the past: I tell them what my B2/A1 moves are, line
dancers up, and let the band start vamping. Once there is an established
groove, I focus on the dancers and face away from the band vamping behind
me. Then, when approaching the A1 at "go time," I turn to the band (making
sure I have my mic in my hand, not on the stand- may have forgotten that
once!), make eye contact, and with deliberation, bounce on the potatoes
while delivering the vocal potatoes to the dancers. Also, a common signal
is to tap the top of your head at the A1. Explore this with your band- lots
of options! When bands just start vamping behind me, this ignore until I'm
ready trick seems to work as well.
-Troubleshooting. Things go wrong! I try to hold myself responsible for
any hiccups, regardless of whether or not the error was *really* my fault.
Easiest fix: stop the band, reset people up for potatoes. Other
caller-initiated fixes for syncing: tell the band where A1 needs to be, ask
them to play an additional B part, have dancers swing an extra eight beats,
cut a long line one time through, etc. Fundamentally, fixing a rolling
start error is no different than fixing any timing error made while
calling. My worst error was when I found myself eight beats off from the
band; they "launched" after I expected. Amazingly, my band figured this out
and fixed it before I had the chance to panic! Musicians are amazing. :)
Like any caller error, handling the situation with poise, grace, and humor
will placate most of the grumbles.
I'm sure I'll think of more I forgot to write, but I hope some of this
rambling is helpful!
Lindsey
------------------------------
*From:* Jack Mitchell via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
*To:* Dave Casserly <david.j.casserly(a)gmail.com>om>; Maia McCormick <
maia.mcc(a)gmail.com>
*Cc:* "callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net" <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
*Sent:* Friday, October 2, 2015 9:11 AM
*Subject:* Re: [Callers] Rolling Starts?
If the band can play a repeated 8 count chord progression from which they
can easily go into the top of the tune, it gives you a phrase to call to,
but if you need to slow down, or fix something, you have that option too --
then you can just get yourself back on the phrase. Other than the fact
that I flubbed the first call of the dance, I am pretty happy with the one
in this video of me with Atlantic Crossing. It wasn't a planned thing (and
planning is definitely a good idea the first time you do it. In
particular, planning how you will cue the band in, whether you want them to
actually do potatoes, or just use your first call (WITH your NEIGHbor
BALance NOW, with some good punch) as the potatoes.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq1tKJb7z-Q
At it's best, it gives you a chance to do two walk thrus if needed,
without the dancers feeling like you're doing too much teaching. The first
time, you can be teaching completely off the phrase, or the band can sneak
in halfway through the first time. Then the second time, you move to being
more on the phrase. Once you're on the phrase, you have effectively agreed
with the band on a tempo and can stick with that as you move into the
dance, so there's really not a need for actual potatoes. As long as you
have your sign worked out with the band (beating the last 4 beats with your
hand, calling with some punch for the first call, patting the top of your
head (to indicate that you're coming up on the top of the dance) or
whatever.) Please note, that if you don't have things worked out with the
band, it can be pretty messy and awkward. Rather similar to the first time
I tried to do one -- the band just started playing a bit under the walk
through and I had no clue of how to cue them in!
J
On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 12:01 PM Dave Casserly via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I also like rolling starts. One of my bands has a few sets where we
greatly prefer it, and try to work with callers to make it happen.
What has worked well for me in the past is having a tune where the start
of the dance can happen every two bars or so (in other words, a tune that
is not harmonically complicated). Making walkthrough prompts in time with
the music, but not giving a particular set amount of time to each call
seems to work well. Dances that end with a move that can be extended
(allemande, swing, etc) can help sync if you need that extra beat or two.
I've found that rolling starts work well with a dance that starts with a
balance, as that can make it very clear where the dance starts. Otherwise,
asking the band for four soft potatoes at the end of the rolling start can
be helpful.
Hope that helps!
-Dave
On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 11:53 AM, Maia McCormick via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I think that rolling starts (seamless transition from walkthrough into the
dance, as the band just starts playing music during the walkthrough) are
super neat if done properly! But I'm still not quite sure how to do them
properly. So I ask you all:
1) tips on how to execute a rolling start well, making sure all the
dancers are on board etc.?
2) thoughts on what dances/tunes will/won't work well with a rolling start?
Cheers,
Maia
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
--
David Casserly
(cell) 781 258-2761
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
--
Jack Mitchell
Durham, NC
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
--
“Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass ... it's about learning
to dance in the rain!” ~ Unknown
3:44 p.m.
Lindsey's response is so good I almost didn't have anything to add. I'll
say though that the most important thing is communication. Ideally you'd
arrange things beforehand, but I can only speak about the surprise
situation, where the band can't put down their instruments, which has
happened to me.
Listen to the music and know where the phrases are. You'll want to make
sure the band knows when you're starting for reals. Whatever you do, make
it really obvious. So make eye contact, gesticulate, and get an
acknowledgement just before you begin. You could break the illusion a
little by saying, "the dance starts here with..." but I wouldn't consider
that enough by itself to cue the band. Even more illusion-breaking: at the
appropriate place in the music, you could even give the band potatoes: "5,
6, balance now".
It's not a big deal though if the first swing happens to be 20 counts long
or something. Tell the dancers to keep swinging, etc. I find it's easier to
adjust the dancers to fit the music.
Now of course if you really want to break it up, you can tell the band to
knock it off, perhaps if you're teaching something intricate and need the
dancers' full attention. It's a bit of a letdown but maybe better than
crashing later. Be apologetic.
I think dances that might work especially well, for when you want to plan a
rolling start in advance, are those that have an unusual starting position
that is slightly disorienting to go back to, so that it's easier to just
carry on. I'm thinking of Chuck the Budgie and other such Rick Mohr dances.
Yoyo Zhou
3:48 p.m.
On Fri, Oct 02, 2015, Lindsey Dono via Callers wrote:
-Preplanned vs spontaneous rolling starts. When I decided to start
working on rolling starts, I preplanned with a band that I knew loved
them. We discussed: timing, signaling, what to do if things failed
to sync or fell apart. To my total delight, both rolling starts
worked. My next rolling start was a surprise to me- the band just
jumped in behind me! Some bands can and love to do this. Some callers
love this, others don't. I've stopped bands from vamping behind me if
I knew I had a lot of explaining to do.
"vamping"?
--
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/
<*> <*> <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
3:54 p.m.
From the Wikipedia article: "In music, a vamp is a
repeating musical figure, section, or accompaniment used in blues, jazz, gospel, soul, and
musical theater. Vamps are also found in rock, funk, reggae, R&B, pop, country, and
post-sixties jazz. Vamps are usually harmonically sparse. A vamp may consist of a single
chord or a sequence of chords played in a repeated rhythm. The term frequently appeared in
the instruction 'Vamp till ready' on sheet music for popular songs in the 1930s
and 1940s, indicating that the accompanist should repeat the musical phrase until the
vocalist was ready. Vamps are generally symmetrical, self-contained, and open to
variation."(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostinato#Vamp)
Does this help? I
likely should have defined this term in my earlier post.
From: Aahz Maruch via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
To: callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 12:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Callers] Rolling Starts?
On Fri, Oct 02, 2015, Lindsey Dono via Callers wrote:
-Preplanned vs spontaneous rolling starts. When I decided to start
working on rolling starts, I preplanned with a band that I knew loved
them. We discussed: timing, signaling, what to do if things failed
to sync or fell apart. To my total delight, both rolling starts
worked. My next rolling start was a surprise to me- the band just
jumped in behind me! Some bands can and love to do this. Some callers
love this, others don't. I've stopped bands from vamping behind me if
I knew I had a lot of explaining to do.
"vamping"?
--
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/
<*> <*> <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
4 p.m.
On Fri, Oct 02, 2015, Lindsey Dono wrote:
Does this help?
Thanks! Not a term I'd seen before, and it looked like the kind of term
that could have multiple meanings (like "poly").
--
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/
<*> <*> <*>
"I could probably become a lesbian if women didn't get on my nerves so
much." --Paula Anderson
6 Oct
6 Oct
2:39 a.m.
On 2015-10-02 1300, Aahz Maruch via Callers wrote:
On Fri, Oct 02, 2015, Lindsey Dono wrote:
Also see:
Interview With a Vamper, by Peter Barnes
His site:
http://canispublishing.com/
Listed at the esteemed Elderly Instruments site:
http://www.elderly.com/books/items/449-2.htm
How To:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/greenery/Minimal%20Ceilidh%20Tune%20Book/vampi…
"Vamping is the art of providing rhythm back up for dancing. This page
is to help someone get started who can play a bit of classical piano but
is unfamiliar with what to do for dancing. "
Listed here under a highly interesting page of Contra Dance Music: A
Working Musician's Guide
http://www.biteyourownelbow.com/contramu.htm
Cheers, John
--
J.D. Erskine
Victoria, BC
Island Dance - Folk & Country
dance info - site & mail list
http://members.shaw.ca/island.dance/
Does this help?
Thanks! Not a term I'd seen before, and it looked like the kind of term
that could have multiple meanings (like "poly").
2 Oct
2 Oct
1:49 p.m.
I went to a dance weekend where rolling starts was a topic of discussion led by Seth
Tepfer. Excellent workshop. I have to admit that I rarely have done them and the one
time that I did it didn't go so well - I was ready but the band was still rolling. So
definitely what Dave and Jack said.
And there are different kinds of rolling starts. There is the hard start where they go
through their tune and then they do the potatoes, and then there's the more seamless
transition where you go right into the dance. With some bands it can be so seamless and
super silky smooth that dancers won't know when the walkthrough ends and when the
actual dance begins - they'll just find themselves dancing. I would suggest that
you'd use dances that don't have anything majorly difficult about them that you
need lengthy teaching.
Perry
From: Maia McCormick via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
To: "callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net" <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 11:53 AM
Subject: [Callers] Rolling Starts?
I think that rolling starts (seamless transition from walkthrough into the dance, as the
band just starts playing music during the walkthrough) are super neat if done properly!
But I'm still not quite sure how to do them properly. So I ask you all:1) tips on how
to execute a rolling start well, making sure all the dancers are on board etc.?2) thoughts
on what dances/tunes will/won't work well with a rolling start?
Cheers,Maia
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5:13 p.m.
Hi Maia,
I may have a slightly different approach than others. When I work with a
band that likes to do rolling starts, we enjoy doing it when things
"work right" musically. I tell the band that they are free to do a
rolling start whenever they want, and it will be up to me to proceed or
wave them off. Of course, this is for only once or twice during an
evening. We don't want to overdo such a memorable technique.
Generally the musicians may be vamping, or they may be just tuning up.
Either way, I hear that there is music behind me as I teach. Our default
is to continue unless I give a signal to stop. From my role, if I hear
the band roll into something that can work as a rolling start, I'll
modify the teaching and my voice on the fly, while at the same time
(with the hand that is not holding the mic) giving the band the signal
to continue or to stop. I watch the dancers, listen to the music, know
the dance that I'm teaching, and weigh the pros and cons of continuing.
IMO, this works well for the spontaneity and excitement, and I feel
comfortable flowing with it and supporting the band, especially when the
musicians are really into a tune. It depends on their musicianship and
musical preferences. Sometimes the musicians will vamp with the entire
band, sometimes only one or two of the musicians will be playing. With
at least one band that I work with, the rolling start sometimes consists
of a hand-drum or Quebecois feet.
Woody
On 10/2/2015 8:53 AM, Maia McCormick via Callers wrote:
I think that rolling starts (seamless transition from
walkthrough into
the dance, as the band just starts playing music during the
walkthrough) are super neat if done properly! But I'm still not quite
sure how to do them properly. So I ask you all:
1) tips on how to execute a rolling start well, making sure all the
dancers are on board etc.?
2) thoughts on what dances/tunes will/won't work well with a rolling
start?
Cheers,
Maia
10:19 p.m.
New subject: looking for choreography "The Square Dance Caller"
it's a Becket Sicilian by Ron Buchanan
was intrigued by the set up and the geometry, but it fell apart
'would love to have a chance to figure it out
thanks
Karin
11:08 p.m.
New subject: looking for choreography "The Square Dance Caller"
Actual title "Revenge of the Square Dance Caller"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrQvyWgXzKE
Walk thru here: http://youtu.be/K2bIenztXoA
On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 10:19 PM Karin Neils via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
it's a Becket Sicilian by Ron Buchanan
was intrigued by the set up and the geometry, but it fell apart
'would love to have a chance to figure it out
thanks
Karin
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--
Jack Mitchell
Durham, NC
6 Oct
6 Oct
4:07 a.m.
On 2015-10-02 0853, Maia McCormick via Callers wrote:
I think that rolling starts (seamless transition from
walkthrough into
the dance, as the band just starts playing music during the walkthrough)
are super neat if done properly! But I'm still not quite sure how to do
them properly. So I ask you all:
1) tips on how to execute a rolling start well, making sure all the
dancers are on board etc.?
2) thoughts on what dances/tunes will/won't work well with a rolling start?
Cheers,
Maia
My best experience with a rolling start -- one of those heart exploding,
happy with the dance thing, moments -- was my first, a spontaneous one
that figured itself out.
I was doing a barn dance/ceilidh billed as a "Contra" fundraiser. There
was a bar, there was a Manifesto (yup, read at the break), there were
babes in arms. It was truly a wonderful group, evening, band, moment.
During the last dance of the night, I got into calling the figures in a
rhythmic, repetitive way as, well it was the last dance, folks had only
been half getting the directions for this one (also they'd sold out the
keg(s?) and gone for more smaller containers of wobbly pop.)
I kept it up, the dancers took it calling the dance with me, the rhythm
section (double bass and percussion picked up on the beat) and without a
plan in place, in the near dark, I was telepathically signalling my
dearest hope the melody section would work it out. The dance had
effectively started, we just couldn't really see each other, hadn't
anything worked out prior, etc etc etc.
One melody player realised it would be cool to do this, the other worked
out where the top of the dance was, the first started in, and the whole
place went up. I got home shortly after the gig and couldn't get to
sleep for an hour and half I was so happy with the whole thing.
After that, without really asking around, a couple of musicians in that
band and I looked at what had been needed, or used and talked about it.
It boiled down to those bits on timing, timing issues, repair work we've
talked about on the list. Things such as Lindsey described under
Troubleshooting.
There have been a few since, none with quite the impact of that first
evening, however all with some range of excitement from the dancers.
Since, then, with that band, I generally let them know what figure the
dance begins (or ends with) with so they may come in if the situation
looks like it might work. Occasionally we've considered and discussed
whether the situation may allow for a rolling start, effectively
planning for one. With other bands we may briefly discuss whether to try
one or in general I'll, as Woody puts it, go with it if the band is
there or wave them off.
It was great to see Woody contribute his approach. I was about to write
that one of my memorable moments as a dancer at a Contra dance event was
a rolling start at the beginning of their program when Woody called with
The Sybaritic Stringband at NW Folklife (Seattle, WA) a couple of years
ago. Early, rhythmic instruction of dance directions, Woody starting
early with his foot percussion, accompanying himself briefly, then the
band coming in. Most fun and effective. The energy and excitement on the
floor was happily palpable.
The choice of dance or tune needn't be a driving piece or particular
energetic dance choice. Several of us have used rolling starts with our
house band at our weekly English Country dance evening. Again, lots of
satisfaction and enjoyment. (A part of that phrase may make ECD seem
staid, however I'm more like to hurt after it than Contra which has much
less "moving" than ECD or English Ceilidh.)
So, give it a try.
Like a first dance called, pick something that stands a chance of
otherwise working out well. One needn't load on the work by trying it
with a dance new to one.
I don't think the dancers need to be "on board" in all instances, in
fact in many cases I might suggest not offering that awareness to the
dancers that it might be a rolling start. This might lessen any personal
concern about having to perhaps excuse a "failure" of it.
It would naturally behoove the kind caller to know the make up of the
event, the "floor" or "hall" as we call it and judge whether it's
worth
giving it a try.
Confirm the band is happy with the process and the band-caller-band
communication is generally effective.
Use a simple phrase to keep momentum and communicate what is going on,
now, to the dancers ("let's _keep_ going -- _New_ Neighbour, Balance and
Swing", etc.) Perhaps have that next direction offered a little earlier
than one would throughout the rest of the dance.
As to tune, most good bands can make extra rhythm when required and from
my experience that is what the rolling start bridge from teaching to
dancing tends to be.
For example: In a caller/musician workshop I was in with Out of the Wood
(Pat and Vickie Marron and Kathy Bowman) one of the comments (not about
rolling starts) was how alert musicians may help the learning process
for new dancers by providing such a rhythmic emphasis during early
dances of an evening by accentuation. (e.g. more left hand or vamping on
a piano, beating with a bow on the fiddle strings, etc.)
Please share your lessons and reports of success and fun.
Cheers, John
--
J.D. Erskine
Victoria, BC
Island Dance - Folk & Country
Vancouver Island & BC islands
dance info - site & mail list
http://members.shaw.ca/island.dance/
11:47 a.m.
I experienced a wonderful spontaneous rolling start recently.
We were in a small private party venue and fortunate to have Amy
Richardson-Larkin (fiddle), her husband Jonathan Larkin (guitar, etc.) and
Chris Ricciotti (yes - not only a caller, he plays button accordion)
playing for us.
I was teaching a new dance of mine in a fairly rhythmic fashion and noticed
the band start slipping in behind me quietly fitting a tune. No verbal or
visual communication with them, it was more just a growing awareness of the
possibility being offered to me. With it being a new dance, and therefore
one I hadn't called before, I was a bit worried about going for it with the
one walk-through. So I kept the momentum and matched pace straight into one
more round of walk-through-like calls with them playing subtly in the
background (offer accepted!) and went for it. It just flowed wonderfully
and was rewarded with smiles all around. Great musicians make it look easy.
:)
On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 4:07 AM, JD Erskine iDance via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Please share your lessons and reports of success and
fun.
12:18 p.m.
Amy Larkin is masterful at this! She also is an incredible dancer, so she really
understands what needs to happen. Heavenly!
Linda
On Oct 6, 2015, at 11:47 AM, Don Veino via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
wrote:
I experienced a wonderful spontaneous rolling start
recently.
We were in a small private party venue and fortunate to have Amy Richardson-Larkin
(fiddle), her husband Jonathan Larkin (guitar, etc.) and Chris Ricciotti (yes - not only a
caller, he plays button accordion) playing for us.
I was teaching a new dance of mine in a fairly rhythmic fashion and noticed the band
start slipping in behind me quietly fitting a tune. No verbal or visual communication with
them, it was more just a growing awareness of the possibility being offered to me. With it
being a new dance, and therefore one I hadn't called before, I was a bit worried about
going for it with the one walk-through. So I kept the momentum and matched pace straight
into one more round of walk-through-like calls with them playing subtly in the background
(offer accepted!) and went for it. It just flowed wonderfully and was rewarded with smiles
all around. Great musicians make it look easy. :)
On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 4:07 AM, JD Erskine iDance via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Please share your lessons and reports of success and fun.
_______________________________________________
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Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
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1:15 p.m.
On 10/6/2015 1:07 AM, JD Erskine iDance via Callers wrote:
On 2015-10-02 0853, Maia McCormick via Callers wrote:
If Woody sent a message to the list on this subject, I seem to have
misplaced it. I'd be grateful if someone could forward it to me
offline. I've been wrestling with this subject myself.
Kalia
I think that rolling starts (seamless transition
from walkthrough into
the dance, as the band just starts playing music during the walkthrough)
are super neat if done properly!
It was great to see Woody contribute his approach.
1:27 p.m.
Done.
On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 1:15 PM, Kalia Kliban via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
If Woody sent a message to the list on this subject, I seem to have
misplaced it. I'd be grateful if someone could forward it to me offline.
I've been wrestling with this subject myself.
Kalia
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--
David Casserly
(cell) 781 258-2761
9:14 p.m.
Thanks Dave, Alan and Sue for catching me up!
Kalia
On 10/6/2015 10:27 AM, Dave Casserly wrote:
Done.
On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 1:15 PM, Kalia Kliban via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
wrote:
If Woody sent a message to the list on this subject, I seem to have
misplaced it. I'd be grateful if someone could forward it to me
offline. I've been wrestling with this subject myself.
Kalia
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Callers mailing list
Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
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12 Oct
12 Oct
8:20 p.m.
I've found this thread very informative, thanks for all the thoughtful
observations.
Having just returned from a weekend as a dancer, I can add one more:
It is indeed possible to over-use rolling starts!
/Andy
On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 6:14 PM, Kalia Kliban via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Thanks Dave, Alan and Sue for catching me up!
Kalia
On 10/6/2015 10:27 AM, Dave Casserly wrote:
--
/Andy Shore
http://andyshore.com/
best email - andyshore(a)gmail.com
Done.
On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 1:15 PM, Kalia Kliban via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
wrote:
If Woody sent a message to the list on this subject, I seem to have
misplaced it. I'd be grateful if someone could forward it to me
offline. I've been wrestling with this subject myself.
Kalia
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8:33 p.m.
Dear All,
Been reading this list serve series of posts now for about a year or so.
I love the off handed comment that lends humor and insight so:
“Moderation in all things, including moderation!”
More another time . . .
Frederick Park
------------------------------
On Oct 12, 2015, at 8:20 PM, Andy Shore via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
wrote:
I've found this thread very informative, thanks for all the thoughtful observations.
Having just returned from a weekend as a dancer, I can add one more:
It is indeed possible to over-use rolling starts!
/Andy
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21 comments
16 participants
participants (16)
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Aahz Maruch via Callers -
Andy Shore via Callers
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Dave Casserly via Callers
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Don Veino via Callers
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Frederick Park via Callers
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Jack Mitchell via Callers
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JD Erskine iDance via Callers
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Kalia Kliban via Callers
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Karin Neils via Callers
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Linda Leslie via Callers
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Lindsey Dono via Callers
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Maia McCormick via Callers
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Mary Collins via Callers
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Perry Shafran via Callers
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Woody Lane via Callers
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Yoyo Zhou via Callers