7 Apr
2010
7 Apr
'10
9:41 a.m.
Question: if you compose a dance, how do you find out if it has already been composed by
somebody else?
Cheers
Jeanette
The piano - 88 little mistakes waiting to happen; Peter Barnes
7 Apr
7 Apr
10:25 a.m.
Well, as has happened a number of times, you can post it here and someone
will recognize it. My Caller's Companion database allows you to search your
own entered dances by phrase, for example all dances with a Partner swing in
the A1 and a Petronella twirl in the B1. This allows you to greatly narrow
the list of potential matches but you're obviously limited to your own
dances.
I've been thinking for some time about having a searchable online database
of dances, one that would allow a similar search by phrase as well as
author, name, progression, form, etc. I've spoken with folks at CDSS about
this and they have expressed interest but I've not had the time to create a
fully functional test site. I think it could be an incredible resource for
callers, especially if people were able to add comments to the dances.
Aside from the programming, the main issue to be resolved with such a
database would be getting permission from the authors to include their
dances. Many authors are happy to have their dances spread far and wide, but
some are not and prefer to refer people to their own books or website,
something the database could also do in the way that Michael Dyck's dance
database does. I've strayed from your original question, but I've been
wanting to get people's thoughts on this, so there it is...
Will
Will Loving, President
Dedication Technologies, Inc.
http://callerscompanion.com
on 4/7/10 9:41 AM, Jeanette Mill at jeanette_mill(a)yahoo.com.au wrote:
Question: if you compose a dance, how do you find out
if it has already been
composed by somebody else?
Cheers
Jeanette
The piano - 88 little mistakes waiting to happen; Peter Barnes
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--
William M. Loving
Dedication Technologies, Inc.
7 Coach Lane
Amherst, MA 01002-3304 USA
will(a)dedicationtechnologies.com
Tel: +1 413 253-7223 (GMT 5)
Fax: +1 206 202-0476
9 Apr
9 Apr
12:59 p.m.
On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 7:25 AM, Will Loving <will(a)dedicationtechnologies.com
wrote:
I've been thinking for some time about having a
searchable online database
of dances, one that would allow a similar search by phrase as well as
author, name, progression, form, etc.
Aside from the programming, the main issue to be
resolved with such a
database would be getting permission from the authors to include their
dances.
I've also been thinking about the possibilities of an on-line database of
dance sequences for some time. I agree that such a database could be very
valuable. My conceptual model involves a flag for every dance that
indicates if the system is allowed display of the sequence of moves. While
some composers might not want their compositions to appear in any database
in any form, I would hope that this would suffice for most concerns. Mind,
a user of such a system might still be able to tease out the details of the
dance sequence with repeated queries, trying different moves until finding
the right one. A given author could have a default setting for the flag,
such that any dance with that author's name would normally have or not have
display permission.
Populating the database could also prove an interesting challenge. Given
the large number of existing dances, a community approach seems necessary.
Perhaps this would need to work like some of the crowdsource methods used
for transcribing documents, requiring two different entries of the sequence,
or one person entering the sequence and a second proofreading it.
(Proofreading it would require being able to view the sequence, while
duplicate entry would not.)
Will, I'll send you a quick mail message from my "real" email address.
Perhaps we can discuss this idea further. It looks like you've put quite a
lot of work into your caller's companion, so I'm certain that you've
encountered many subtle points that I have not imagined.
Best regards,
William
--
wjw1961(a)gmail.com
This is my bulk mail / mailing list address.
I do not read message sent to it with any regularity.
William J. Watson
2 p.m.
Will and William: You might consider The Session as a preeminent example
of this concept for Irish tunes: thesession.org
Jeanette, sorry to further stray from your original question, the
answers to which I am also quite interested in.
- Max
On 4/9/2010 12:59 PM, William Watson wrote:
On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 7:25 AM, Will
Loving<will(a)dedicationtechnologies.com
wrote:
I've been thinking for some time about having
a searchable online database
of dances, one that would allow a similar search by phrase as well as
author, name, progression, form, etc.
Aside from the programming, the main issue to be
resolved with such a
database would be getting permission from the authors to include their
dances.
I've also been thinking about the possibilities of an on-line database of
dance sequences for some time. I agree that such a database could be very
valuable. My conceptual model involves a flag for every dance that
indicates if the system is allowed display of the sequence of moves. While
some composers might not want their compositions to appear in any database
in any form, I would hope that this would suffice for most concerns. Mind,
a user of such a system might still be able to tease out the details of the
dance sequence with repeated queries, trying different moves until finding
the right one. A given author could have a default setting for the flag,
such that any dance with that author's name would normally have or not have
display permission.
Populating the database could also prove an interesting challenge. Given
the large number of existing dances, a community approach seems necessary.
Perhaps this would need to work like some of the crowdsource methods used
for transcribing documents, requiring two different entries of the sequence,
or one person entering the sequence and a second proofreading it.
(Proofreading it would require being able to view the sequence, while
duplicate entry would not.)
Will, I'll send you a quick mail message from my "real" email address.
Perhaps we can discuss this idea further. It looks like you've put quite a
lot of work into your caller's companion, so I'm certain that you've
encountered many subtle points that I have not imagined.
Best regards,
William
--
wjw1961(a)gmail.com
This is my bulk mail / mailing list address.
I do not read message sent to it with any regularity.
William J. Watson
_______________________________________________
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3:20 p.m.
William Watson wrote:
Populating the database could also prove an interesting challenge.
Given the large number of existing dances, a community approach
seems necessary.
One source that gives a sense of what's out there is Michael Dyck's
Contradance Index. [1] It has publication info, dance title,
authorship, and formation for every dance I've ever tried to look up.
Does not have figures, though.
Jeff
[1] http://www.ibiblio.org/contradance/index/
4:17 p.m.
On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 12:20 PM, Jeff Kaufman <jeff(a)alum.swarthmore.edu> wrote:
One source that gives a sense of what's out there
is Michael Dyck's
Contradance Index. [1] It has publication info, dance title,
authorship, and formation for every dance I've ever tried to look up.
[1] http://www.ibiblio.org/contradance/index/
This raises a question about the contents of an on-line database of
contra dance sequences: should it contain sequences AS PUBLISHED, or
also include variations of those dances? Who would own the copyright
of a derived dance, and be in a position to authorize viewing of the
sequence, if the original author does not allow it?
Of course, the other interesting aspect of copyright is simultaneous
invention of a sequence by different people.
Besides the technical matter of writing the software, policy and
social issues seem pretty significant.
Regards,
William
12 Apr
12 Apr
6:46 a.m.
On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 12:20 PM, Jeff Kaufman
<jeff(a)alum.swarthmore.edu> wrote:
> One source that gives a sense of what's out there is Michael Dyck's
> Contradance Index. [1] It has publication info, dance title,
> authorship, and formation for every dance I've ever tried to look up.
> [1] http://www.ibiblio.org/contradance/index/
This raises a question about the contents of an
on-line database of
contra dance sequences: should it contain sequences AS PUBLISHED, or
also include variations of those dances? Who would own the copyright
of a derived dance, and be in a position to authorize viewing of the
sequence, if the original author does not allow it?
Of course, the other interesting aspect of copyright
is simultaneous
invention of a sequence by different people.
Copyright hardly enters into it. (I do think that _courtesy_ does, and you
shouldn't publish other people's dances without their permissions - but it
appears to be the case that you can't actually copyright choreography. You
may have copyright in the precise text of a dance description as you write it
down (eg, the moment the creative work becomes fixed in tangible form), but the
mere fact that you put known sequences into a particular order doesn't legally
grant you the right to prevent somebody else from describing those sequences in
that order.)
Besides the technical matter of writing the software,
policy and
social issues seem pretty significant.
Yes.
-- Alan
--
===============================================================================
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Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056
Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA 94025
===============================================================================
6:56 a.m.
Its an individuals choice. I see my dances, some published some not as
"folk" to be shared and changed as needed. We are part of that chain. I
choose to pass it along for otherwise it has no real worth.
On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 4:17 PM, William Watson <
williamcallscontras(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 12:20 PM, Jeff Kaufman
<jeff(a)alum.swarthmore.edu>
wrote:
One source that gives a sense of what's out
there is Michael Dyck's
Contradance Index. [1] It has publication info, dance title,
authorship, and formation for every dance I've ever tried to look up.
[1] http://www.ibiblio.org/contradance/index/
This raises a question about the contents of an on-line database of
contra dance sequences: should it contain sequences AS PUBLISHED, or
also include variations of those dances? Who would own the copyright
of a derived dance, and be in a position to authorize viewing of the
sequence, if the original author does not allow it?
Of course, the other interesting aspect of copyright is simultaneous
invention of a sequence by different people.
Besides the technical matter of writing the software, policy and
social issues seem pretty significant.
Regards,
William
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7 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing -
Donald Primrose -
Jeanette Mill -
Jeff Kaufman -
Max Newman, Youth Projects Intern -
Will Loving -
William Watson -
William Watson