10 Feb
2014
10 Feb
'14
5:42 p.m.
In the last few years, I find myself dancing a lot more dances that end with
Circle left 3 places and pass through
What I find is that about 3/4 of the dancers take 8 counts to do the circle 3 places, then
a brief but indeterminate amount of time to do the pass through, and then arrive late to
the next couple & next figure. (The other 1/4 take 6 counts to circle, 2 to pass
through, and are then on the music's phrasing for the next figure.)
It seems to me likely that this is frustrating to almost everyone. The "eight and
late" dancers think "what a stupid dance, I can't get where I'm supposed
to be in time," and the "6 + 2" dancers think "why are 3/4 of the
people not here when I get here?"
I haven't done a careful study, but I did just go to an experienced dance, and my
impression is that the 3/4 - 1/4 ratio doesn't change with level of experience (though
the experienced dancers, whatever their timing is, do it with more confidence). And I
don't think there's anything all that surprising about that: we hardly do anything
in contras to a count of 6 or 2. (If I've noticed any pattern, it's that contra
dancers who also do English are more likely to dance it 6+2.) I do it 6+2, since it's
the only way I can see to both dance to the phrasing and not be late to the next figure.
It seems like a caller could point it out which might help some (though dancers'
experience that everything is in a count of 8 or 4 is pretty ingrained), but the avoidance
of teaching seems to prevent that--I don't recall any caller ever saying anything
about it.
Have others noticed it as an issue? (And am I right that it's a relatively recent
issue?) Thoughts on what to do about it, if anything?
--Read Weaver
Jamaica Plain, MA
http://lcfd.org
10 Feb
10 Feb
6:10 p.m.
Read noted that circle three places and pass through takes 8 counts for
1/4 of the room and 10 counts or something like it for the rest, and
asks if there's anything to be done about it.
It seems to me that the extremely common "circle left three place and
swing your [partner|neighbor] on the side" teaches people that a 3/4
circle is eight counts, so if you want something different it'll take a
lot of emphasis. (And we're somewhat used to killing extra time from
the circle with a twirl out or something. This may be why I see some
guys twirling women out in circle and pass through, where it has no
place at all and makes them late and possibly confused. That is, it
might be inappropriate reflexes, rather than being showoffy or smartass. )
You can also try to hide the mess by doing something a little sloshy
after the pass through, like a gypsy and swing or dosido and swing,
which will work if you can see the person coming at you even if they're
not there yet. That finesses the problem rather than solving it.
-- Alan
On 2/10/2014 2:42 PM, Read Weaver wrote:
In the last few years, I find myself dancing a lot
more dances that end with
Circle left 3 places and pass through
What I find is that about 3/4 of the dancers take 8 counts to do the circle 3 places,
then a brief but indeterminate amount of time to do the pass through, and then arrive late
to the next couple & next figure. (The other 1/4 take 6 counts to circle, 2 to pass
through, and are then on the music's phrasing for the next figure.)
It seems to me likely that this is frustrating to almost everyone. The "eight and
late" dancers think "what a stupid dance, I can't get where I'm supposed
to be in time," and the "6 + 2" dancers think "why are 3/4 of the
people not here when I get here?"
I haven't done a careful study, but I did just go to an experienced dance, and my
impression is that the 3/4 - 1/4 ratio doesn't change with level of experience (though
the experienced dancers, whatever their timing is, do it with more confidence). And I
don't think there's anything all that surprising about that: we hardly do anything
in contras to a count of 6 or 2. (If I've noticed any pattern, it's that contra
dancers who also do English are more likely to dance it 6+2.) I do it 6+2, since it's
the only way I can see to both dance to the phrasing and not be late to the next figure.
It seems like a caller could point it out which might help some (though dancers'
experience that everything is in a count of 8 or 4 is pretty ingrained), but the avoidance
of teaching seems to prevent that--I don't recall any caller ever saying anything
about it.
Have others noticed it as an issue? (And am I right that it's a relatively recent
issue?) Thoughts on what to do about it, if anything?
--Read Weaver
Jamaica Plain, MA
http://lcfd.org
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
6:21 p.m.
On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 4:42 PM, Read Weaver <rweaver(a)igc.org> wrote:
What I find is that about 3/4 of the dancers take 8
counts to do the
circle 3 places, then a brief but indeterminate amount of time to do the
pass through, and then arrive late to the next couple & next figure. (The
other 1/4 take 6 counts to circle, 2 to pass through, and are then on the
music's phrasing for the next figure.)
It seems like a caller could point it out which might help some (though
dancers' experience that everything is in a count of 8 or 4 is pretty
ingrained), but the avoidance of teaching seems to prevent that--I don't
recall any caller ever saying anything about it.
If the next move after the pass through is timing-critical, like a balance,
then the caller can strongly cue that move, such as: "...new N, balance
_now_!" That's what I do when I find people are invariably running late,
and it often tends to fix it within a few repetitions.
If the next move is something where the timing can be fuzzy then I'll often
point out the tight timing during the walkthrough, but let it slide during
the dance.
-Grant-
--
Grant Goodyear
web: http://www.grantgoodyear.org
e-mail: grant(a)grantgoodyear.org
6:34 p.m.
On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 2:42 PM, Read Weaver <rweaver(a)igc.org> wrote:
In the last few years, I find myself dancing a lot
more dances that end with
Circle left 3 places and pass through
What I find is that about 3/4 of the dancers take 8 counts to do the circle 3 places,
then a brief but indeterminate amount of time to do the pass through, and then arrive late
to the next couple & next figure. (The other 1/4 take 6 counts to circle, 2 to pass
through, and are then on the music's phrasing for the next figure.)
Don't forget those who opt for 6-8 counts to circle + 2 counts to
twirl their neighbor + 2 to pass through. (The twirl doesn't
necessarily break the flow, but it can make late dancers later.)
Have others noticed it as an issue? (And am I right
that it's a relatively recent issue?) Thoughts on what to do about it, if anything?
Yes, it's an issue. I have noticed that while calling, calling "pass
through" and "balance" with enough leading (e.g. "..._pass_
_through_,
_on_ to the _next_, _bal_ance _now_!") can help, especially once the
dancers have the pattern and I'm going to drop out soon.
Teaching-wise, one can also mention that the circle has to be
purposeful (the same tip for circle left all the way in 8 beats). But
teaching can only do so much.
Yoyo Zhou
3968
days inactive
3968
days old
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
3 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
-
Alan Winston -
Grant Goodyear -
Read Weaver -
Yoyo Zhou