Hi Hanny, Sorry, I really thought you meant "proper" meaning "genuine", but you meant "Proper", as in "all the men on one side". It was, in that context, just meant as a humorous riposte... Which obviously failed... :-( Anyway, we would have to agree on definitions for "traditional" and "contra" before we could discuss whether your statement "traditional contras were always 'proper'" is a valid statement. But since those the meaning of those terms is fluid and depends on the speaker, the context, the country and the century, let's not go there :-) I would however like to point out an example of an early improper contra: The King of Poland - Playford 1698: http://www.izaak.unh.edu/nhltmd/indexes/dancingmaster/Dance/Play4045.htm http://www.srcf.ucam.org/round/dances/cdb/cdb4/king "First Man on his Woman's side" Happy dancing, John John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 574 http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive Events, Instructional DVDs and Interactive Maps http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent From: Hanny Budnick <kyrmyt(a)cavtel.net> To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net> Subject: Re: [Callers] Re Proper Traditional Contras Message-ID: <4EEB21C8.6040208(a)cavtel.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hi John, As you know, traditional contras were always 'proper' - all men on the same side to start the dance. Casting off with regards, Hanny