Thank you, Jeff. That's a really interesting article. Sent from Gmail Mobile On Fri, Jan 17, 2025 at 14:34 Jeff Kaufman via Contra Callers < contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote:

Jeff, While I think derailing completely into a bibliography of the environmental impact of AI is inappropriate for this list (and despite your generous acknowledgement that you may have missed something, I’m sure you’re as capable as I am of reviewing the literature), your skepticism is on-topic enough in context for me to say some things and then be done: First, the historic issues around water provision and grid-derived power supply around data centers in the midwestern US offer some context for more recent discussions about (all contemporary) tech and energy. Second, pervasive discussion of nuclear energy as a useful “new” energy source gives some indication of the amount of power that emerging systems need. The articles I’ve read for work that review the environmental impact of future computing have so far relied either on the argument that nuclear is clean energy (and the 1980s might have something to say about that; it should at least be a public discussion rather than a private one), or the assumption that the technology itself will produce new efficiencies or solutions at some point faster than we otherwise would that will make it all okay. For me this latter argument relies a bit to much on the optimism of people who have directly contributed to many of the problems in the world today, and/or the philosophies they espouse (and in fact my primary conclusion overall has been that it’s shockingly hard to get good data on this question, and that in itself should prompt closer examination on all our parts). There are also social and cultural reasons to be cautious about AI, as it is being developed quickly and without significant ethical oversight — but they really are beyond the scope of this discussion except to say that I think the human environment is also worthy of concern. To Michael’s point earlier, some people may like to know (minuscule impact or not) that you can use “-ai” in your Google searches to stop it from giving that AI-generated summary at the top of search results. A bit like my Amazon boycott and my personal choice not to have a car, it’s a futile gesture in the grand scheme but one that feels right to/for me, as it’s a “feature” I didn’t ask for and don’t need, and which I see causing harm to/for others. Louise.

The amount of AI energy used by Rick's application, compared to the amount of AI energy in use is many orders of magnitude less than miniscule. Most inquiries to search engines either already, or soon will use AI On Mon, Jan 13, 2025 at 1:37 PM Keith Tuxhorn via Contra Callers < contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote:

I did something similar to Diane Silver in my “deep collection” period, the difference was I recorded every dance I attended—with permission, of course. Then, when I became the house caller in San Luis Obispo, I’d use the hour-and-a-half drive from my home in Santa Barbara, to listen to the dances and scrawl the choreography on the way. Saved me from the missing the walk-through. One advantage of this, I also caught the teaching. I’d have times when I’d say, “that description didn’t work that well,” or, “that was a great way to teach that dance.” Thus, I recording dances, with that permission first. You get to go through a walk-through, feel what is like to go through the teaching, then re-live it when listening to the recording as you transcribe the dance. I’d also get to enjoy the music and process the dance. OK, I’m not recommending writing while driving, but finding a time to listen, transcribe, and review your experience. It’s a great way to learn, at least for Another technique I tell students to is when the caller stops calling, call the dance as dancing. Call under your breath if calling is not needed, call out loud if your in a trouble spot. This is a way to feel how the place the timing of the call to end on the phrase preceding the motion. Cheers, Erik Hoffman Of Santa Barbara, now in Oakland, CA From: Diane Silver &lt;dsilver.asheville(a)gmail.com&gt; Sent: Monday, January 13, 2025 10:27 AM To: Erik Hoffman &lt;erik(a)erikhoffman.com&gt; Cc: Shared Weight - Contra Callers &lt;contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; Subject: Re: [Callers] Re: Unifying contra dance formats with AI Any teacher will tell you that engaging with the material leads to mastery. It's why authentic, problem-based learning is considered better than book-learning, and it's also why, at the very Caution: External (dsilver.asheville@gmail.com<mailto:dsilver.asheville@gmail.com>) First-Time Sender Details<https://protection.inkyphishfence.com/details?id=bmV0b3JnZnQxNTA… Report This Email<https://protection.inkyphishfence.com/report?id=bmV0b3JnZnQxNTA4MD… FAQ<https://www.godaddy.com/help/report-email-with-advanced-email-securi… GoDaddy Advanced Email Security, Powered by INKY<https://www.inky.com/protection-by-inky> Any teacher will tell you that engaging with the material leads to mastery. It's why authentic, problem-based learning is considered better than book-learning, and it's also why, at the very least, you were assigned study guides or outlines or such when you were in school -- forcing you to re-write info from the textbook, rather than just reading it. Most of my collection is dances I collected by dancing them myself. When I was starting out, I was in deep collection mode, and kept a little notebook in my dance bag. I'd finish a dance, get my next partner, then scurry over to my notebook to jot down the dance we just did before I forgot it, then scurry back to the line before the music started. I often missed the walk-through, but I figured, if I can't dance without a walk-through, I have no business trying to be a caller. Then at home I'd transcribe the scribbles onto cards. I have no doubt that that process helped me as a new caller. I have often wondered if it's really a service to new callers when they ask to just take a picture of my card. The teacher in me wants to take the road of tough love and make them do the same work I did, but I usually let them just have it because they haven't asked for that level of mentorship. On Sun, Jan 12, 2025 at 5:01 PM Erik Hoffman via Contra Callers <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote: From Louise Siddons: Also, specifically in terms of programming (which someone mentioned), there are aspects of calling where experience is a key element of the learning process. Shortcuts will be detrimental to the caller’s experience even if the dancers don’t notice. From me: This is much like late Larry Jennings’ decision to transcribe dances in his book, Zesty Contras and Give-and-Take with abbreviations and in a form that was not common in the time. His thinking was people using his books would have to think about the dance they were planning to call had to think about the dance as they re-transcribed it. I recall the challenge of putting dances down on a card (remember those?) (and I know people still use cards…) from Zesty Contras and doing just what Larry intended: thinking a dance through as I put it down in my re-abbreviated cards. Cheers, ~Erik Hoffman Oakland CA From: Louise Siddons via Contra Callers <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>> Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2025 12:35 PM To: Shared Weight Contra Callers <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>> Subject: [Callers] Re: Unifying contra dance formats with AI AI is resource-intensive and an environmental disaster. Using it for trivial purposes feels worse than pointless to me. Also, specifically in terms of programming (which someone mentioned), there are aspects of calling where experience is a key element of the learning process. Shortcuts will be detrimental to the caller’s experience even if the dancers don’t notice. In the spirit of slow food, might we not consider ‘slow folk dance’ as taking a positive, sustainable position in relation to the climate crisis? There is no actual need to make anything related to contra dancing more efficient. (I’m reminded of the joke that dancing is a very complicated way of going nowhere. Surely in some sense we embody the idea that the journey is the destination?) Louise. (Winchester, UK) _______________________________________________ Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:contracallers-leave@lists.sharedweight.net> _______________________________________________ Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:contracallers-leave@lists.sharedweight.net>

FWIW, I snap pictures now and engage later, rewriting in my own format, dancing with ghosts in all roles, etc. I’ve tried ways more like you describe and got empirically worse results. The way I’ve settled on is more comfortably suited to the ways of learning I know work better for me. My point is, engaging with the material in the same manner is different from engaging with it to the same degree. Your way is taylored toward your own neurology. Thank you for respecting boundaries and not lecturing those who ask; by doing so you are implicitly giving the newer callers the benefit of the doubt that they know their own best ways of learning, or will discover them. Joseph Erhard-Hudson Misciw Idaho Sent from my phone, which has odd ideas about formatting sometimes. On Mon, Jan 13, 2025 at 10:32 AM Diane Silver via Contra Callers < contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote:

Any teacher will tell you that engaging with the material leads to mastery. It's why authentic, problem-based learning is considered better than book-learning, and it's also why, at the very least, you were assigned study guides or outlines or such when you were in school -- forcing you to re-write info from the textbook, rather than just reading it. Most of my collection is dances I collected by dancing them myself. When I was starting out, I was in deep collection mode, and kept a little notebook in my dance bag. I'd finish a dance, get my next partner, then scurry over to my notebook to jot down the dance we just did before I forgot it, then scurry back to the line before the music started. I often missed the walk-through, but I figured, if I can't dance without a walk-through, I have no business trying to be a caller. Then at home I'd transcribe the scribbles onto cards. I have no doubt that that process helped me as a new caller. I have often wondered if it's really a service to new callers when they ask to just take a picture of my card. The teacher in me wants to take the road of tough love and make them do the same work I did, but I usually let them just have it because they haven't asked for that level of mentorship. On Sun, Jan 12, 2025 at 5:01 PM Erik Hoffman via Contra Callers < contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote:

AI is resource-intensive and an environmental disaster. Using it for trivial purposes feels worse than pointless to me. Also, specifically in terms of programming (which someone mentioned), there are aspects of calling where experience is a key element of the learning process. Shortcuts will be detrimental to the caller’s experience even if the dancers don’t notice. In the spirit of slow food, might we not consider ‘slow folk dance’ as taking a positive, sustainable position in relation to the climate crisis? There is no actual need to make anything related to contra dancing more efficient. (I’m reminded of the joke that dancing is a very complicated way of going nowhere. Surely in some sense we embody the idea that the journey is the destination?) Louise. (Winchester, UK)

I asked Gemini to create a dance with certain moves. It tried hard but never got one that would actually progress. It was able to suggest ways to teach perpetual beginners--nothing I hadn't considered, but it did recognize what I wanted and offer reasonable responses. I think AI might be able to organize a program into a good teaching/dancing sequence. I wouldn't trust it as the final word but it's likely to offer an analysis I wouldn't think of. Bob Hofkin On 2025-01-12 10:46, Laur via Contra Callers wrote:

That's pretty amazing. I am generally resisting AI with every fiber in my being, but this looks pretty benign. Thanks for sharing. Diane On Sun, Jan 12, 2025 at 9:06 AM Rick Mohr via Contra Callers < contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote: