21 May
2013
21 May
'13
8:28 p.m.
<<Delayed because I sent from the wrong e-mail account...>>
I personally don't like arms folded in a dosido, so my three points in
favour of not folding was really a light-hearted response to the
previous post with three points in favour of saying nothing.
I always explain these things with a smile, tactfully, and make it
absolutely clear that they can fold their arms if they want: "innovation
and improvisation are good!" :-)
Why teach the dosido spin? Because it helps people to know which way to
spin, and because there are elements like catching your partner's eyes
between the spins that people won't necessarily pick up without some
guidance.
Happy dancing,
John
John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362
http://www.contrafusion.co.uk <http://www.contrafusion.co.uk/> for
Dancing in Kent
21 May
21 May
8:59 p.m.
New subject: Arms Folded in Dosidos
I seem to remember the original thread where the "folded arms" came up was
teaching traditional dancing in elementary schools and I think that's when Dan gave
his three VERY EXCELLENT reasons why not to try to change anything. I agree completely and
would think the same reasons would apply for a "family" or "community"
dance.
In a 'regular contradance' I really have never seen folding arms as a problem.. I
mean some times newcomers automatically do it, but they stop as soon as they see everyone
else isn't doing it. I have never taught a do sa do spin. When I teach a do sa do I
DO, however, mention to new dancers that they will come across it and it's perfectly
OK and they might want to do it some time in the future, but that doing the basic
"back to back" and getting to the right place at the right time is more
important..
Eventually people are gonna do what is fun for them I think.. I always try to get across
that "their fun" shouldn't be at the expense of anyone else's.. but then
I guess that's another whole subject.. oh my..
bill
From: info(a)contrafusion.co.uk
To: callers(a)sharedweight.net
Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 21:28:07 +0100
Subject: Re: [Callers] Arms Folded in Dosidos
<<Delayed because I sent from the wrong e-mail account...>>
I personally don't like arms folded in a dosido, so my three points in
favour of not folding was really a light-hearted response to the
previous post with three points in favour of saying nothing.
I always explain these things with a smile, tactfully, and make it
absolutely clear that they can fold their arms if they want: "innovation
and improvisation are good!" :-)
Why teach the dosido spin? Because it helps people to know which way to
spin, and because there are elements like catching your partner's eyes
between the spins that people won't necessarily pick up without some
guidance.
Happy dancing,
John
John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362
http://www.contrafusion.co.uk <http://www.contrafusion.co.uk/> for
Dancing in Kent
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Callers mailing list
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9:35 p.m.
New subject: Arms Folded in Dosidos
On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 4:28 PM, John Sweeney <info(a)contrafusion.co.uk> wrote:
Why teach the dosido spin? Because it helps people to
know which way to
spin, and because there are elements like catching your partner's eyes
between the spins that people won't necessarily pick up without some
guidance.
There may be an easier way to spin (easiest is not spinning, so you
are already beyond worrying about easy), but no mandatory direction.
9:51 p.m.
New subject: Arms Folded in Dosidos
I'm trying this stuff for Science in my room, and although I probably look
very silly, I'm finding that nothing I do with my arms is in any way
affecting my ability to balance while I spin. On the dance floor, I tend
to do do-si-dos with my arms tucked in (not folded, but with fists balled
against my chest) so that I can spin rapidly without worrying about my arms
involuntarily flying out and hitting someone.
On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 5:35 PM, Donald Perley <donperley(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 4:28 PM, John Sweeney
<info(a)contrafusion.co.uk>
wrote:
Why teach the dosido spin? Because it helps
people to know which way to
spin, and because there are elements like catching your partner's eyes
between the spins that people won't necessarily pick up without some
guidance.
There may be an easier way to spin (easiest is not spinning, so you
are already beyond worrying about easy), but no mandatory direction.
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31 May
31 May
7:48 p.m.
New subject: Arms Folded in Dosidos
[been offline almost two weeks, so responding late]
On Tue, May 21, 2013, Donald Perley wrote:
On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 4:28 PM, John Sweeney
<info(a)contrafusion.co.uk> wrote:
Actually, I find that spinning is easier than not spinning, partly
because of the point someone else made about backing up and also because
the spin puts my feet naturally into the right positions for each spot.
--
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/
<*> <*> <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
Why teach the dosido spin? Because it helps people to know which way to
spin, and because there are elements like catching your partner's eyes
between the spins that people won't necessarily pick up without some
guidance.
There may be an easier way to spin (easiest is not spinning, so you
are already beyond worrying about easy), but no mandatory direction. 
8:46 p.m.
New subject: Arms Folded in Dosidos
For those of us who are used to twirls, spins may make a Do Si Do
easier. This idea of the challenge of "back-up" vs "spin" is
intriguing.
I've never noticed it particularly hard to back up and miss. And
occasionally a shoulder might bump. "Nice running into you!" is what I
say. And one learns to glance over a shoulder. As far as positional
awareness and spinning goes, this takes practice. For the novice this
awareness is not automatic -- it can become more so to the seasoned
dancer. Many newcomers complain -- in the spinning world of fast-swing
and twirling contra dancers -- of dizziness. For them, spinning may be
eons away, if they decide to return.
And, as I stated in an earlier email, a Do Si Do starts on a spot,
facing a direction, and ends on that spot facing that direction. Or it
ends "a quarter more" from that spot, or "one and a half" from that
spot, facing the direction one started in -- it's a directional move.
Often, when people spin, they loose this sense of direction. This is
true of many somewhat "experienced" dancers.
At a one-night-stand dance, since the Do Si Do is something people
actually "know," as the arms cross and the smiles of "knowing" appear,
and since that sense of "knowing" brings such joy that I would never
"correct" it from this version of "correct!" Again, an arms crossed
Do
Si Do is not incorrect, it's just gone out of fashion in the contra
dance world. And, anyone who comes to a contra dance and returns will
quite quickly stop crossing their arms, as it's not the style there.
At a contra dance, I teach the directional details of the Do Si Do, and
demonstrate the spin that they'll see. I actually object to teaching
beginners to spin, as I consider that a modern flourish (that I actually
do -- about half the time), and find that adding that flourish confuses
more beginners than helps.
John Sweeny writes:
Why teach the dosido spin? Because it helps people to
know which way to
spin, and because there are elements like catching your partner's eyes
between the spins that people won't necessarily pick up without some
guidance.
Hmm, I think this might be a good idea to show this after someone's been
coming for a while. Most of the people I know who solo spin were never
taught these things, and seem to have successfully learned them. As far
as eye contact goes, don't forget that, as many of us over-emphasize the
importance of eye to eye in the contra dance world, many newcomers find
this a bit too intimate at first, and need to get comfortable with it.
I always let people know that they don't have to make all that eye
contact if they don't want to. And there are lots of opportunities in
just about every contra dance for eye contact, it need not be so
ubiquitous...
As far as teaching twirls and spins, I'd focus much more on cranking
leaders, and strive to teach how it is the leader's invitation, the
follower's choice, and the importance of how small the leader's motion
actually is: No Cranking!!! This is something many "experienced"
dancers need a lesson in.
~erik hoffman
oakland, ca
On 5/31/2013 12:48 PM, Aahz Maruch wrote:
[been offline almost two weeks, so responding late]
On Tue, May 21, 2013, Donald Perley wrote:
On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 4:28 PM, John Sweeney
<info(a)contrafusion.co.uk> wrote:
Actually, I
find that spinning is easier than not spinning, partly
because of the point someone else made about backing up and also because
the spin puts my feet naturally into the right positions for each spot. Why teach the dosido spin? Because it helps
people to know which way to
spin, and because there are elements like catching your partner's eyes
between the spins that people won't necessarily pick up without some
guidance.
There may be an easier way to spin (easiest is not spinning, so you
are already beyond worrying about easy), but no mandatory direction. 
11:08 p.m.
New subject: Arms Folded in Dosidos
I think the thing that makes twirls feel better/easier for those who tolerate rotation
well, is the the straight one has at least two changes of direction, and not even easy
changes such as a straight reverse. Done at present fast contra speeds, they can be
jarring to the knees. Twirls provide a way to have continuous flowing movement instead.
Andrea
Sent from my iOnlypretendtomultitask
On May 31, 2013, at 4:46 PM, Erik Hoffman <erik(a)erikhoffman.com> wrote:
For those of us who are used to twirls, spins may make
a Do Si Do easier. This idea of the challenge of "back-up" vs "spin"
is intriguing.
I've never noticed it particularly hard to back up and miss. And occasionally a
shoulder might bump. "Nice running into you!" is what I say. And one learns to
glance over a shoulder. As far as positional awareness and spinning goes, this takes
practice. For the novice this awareness is not automatic -- it can become more so to the
seasoned dancer. Many newcomers complain -- in the spinning world of fast-swing and
twirling contra dancers -- of dizziness. For them, spinning may be eons away, if they
decide to return.
And, as I stated in an earlier email, a Do Si Do starts on a spot, facing a direction,
and ends on that spot facing that direction. Or it ends "a quarter more" from
that spot, or "one and a half" from that spot, facing the direction one started
in -- it's a directional move. Often, when people spin, they loose this sense of
direction. This is true of many somewhat "experienced" dancers.
At a one-night-stand dance, since the Do Si Do is something people actually
"know," as the arms cross and the smiles of "knowing" appear, and
since that sense of "knowing" brings such joy that I would never
"correct" it from this version of "correct!" Again, an arms crossed
Do Si Do is not incorrect, it's just gone out of fashion in the contra dance world.
And, anyone who comes to a contra dance and returns will quite quickly stop crossing their
arms, as it's not the style there.
At a contra dance, I teach the directional details of the Do Si Do, and demonstrate the
spin that they'll see. I actually object to teaching beginners to spin, as I consider
that a modern flourish (that I actually do -- about half the time), and find that adding
that flourish confuses more beginners than helps.
John Sweeny writes:
Why teach the dosido spin? Because it helps
people to know which way to
spin, and because there are elements like catching your partner's eyes
between the spins that people won't necessarily pick up without some
guidance.
Hmm, I think this might be a good idea to show this after someone's been coming for a
while. Most of the people I know who solo spin were never taught these things, and seem
to have successfully learned them. As far as eye contact goes, don't forget that, as
many of us over-emphasize the importance of eye to eye in the contra dance world, many
newcomers find this a bit too intimate at first, and need to get comfortable with it. I
always let people know that they don't have to make all that eye contact if they
don't want to. And there are lots of opportunities in just about every contra dance
for eye contact, it need not be so ubiquitous...
As far as teaching twirls and spins, I'd focus much more on cranking leaders, and
strive to teach how it is the leader's invitation, the follower's choice, and the
importance of how small the leader's motion actually is: No Cranking!!! This is
something many "experienced" dancers need a lesson in.
~erik hoffman
oakland, ca
On 5/31/2013 12:48 PM, Aahz Maruch wrote:
[been offline almost two weeks, so responding
late]
On Tue, May 21, 2013, Donald Perley wrote:
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 4:28 PM, John Sweeney
<info(a)contrafusion.co.uk> wrote:
Actually, I
find that spinning is easier than not spinning, partly
because of the point someone else made about backing up and also because
the spin puts my feet naturally into the right positions for each spot. Why teach the dosido spin? Because it helps
people to know which way to
spin, and because there are elements like catching your partner's eyes
between the spins that people won't necessarily pick up without some
guidance.
There may be an easier way to spin (easiest is not spinning, so you
are already beyond worrying about easy), but no mandatory direction.
11:27 p.m.
New subject: Arms Folded in Dosidos
On 5/31/2013 4:08 PM, Andrea Nettleton wrote:
I think the thing that makes twirls feel better/easier
for those who tolerate rotation well, is the the straight one has at least two changes of
direction, and not even easy changes such as a straight reverse. Done at present fast
contra speeds, they can be jarring to the knees. Twirls provide a way to have continuous
flowing movement instead.
Andrea
Strange, I've been having small knee problems. Never, ever have I
noticed a standard, no-flourish, face-one-direction Do Si Do do anything
to irritate my knees. If anything exacerbates them, it's the buzz-step
swing. Twirling, too, all that rotation on the ball of the right foot
tweaks the right knee, at least in my case. Now, a good, careful
walking-step swing doesn't hurt.
And, I have yet to hear one of the proselytizers for the spinning Do Si
Do discuss the problem of the directional nature of the Do Si Do and how
they teach that...
~erik hoffman
oakland, ca
24 May
24 May
3:53 p.m.
New subject: Arms Folded in Dosidos
John wrote:
Why teach the dosido spin? Because it helps people to
know which way to
spin, and because there are elements like catching your partner's eyes
between the spins that people won't necessarily pick up without some
guidance.
I started spinning during dosidos during my first few contra dances. I
did so because of one advantage that has not yet been mentioned here: If
you do NOT spin then you must walk backwards during half of the figure.
Walking backwards is awkward because you could step on someone if you don't
look over your shoulder. The spinning allows you to look in your direction
of movement several times during the move...kind of like in a waltz.
So, basically, spinning can be safer than the "straight" dosido.
I think folks will figure out pretty quickly that spinning to the left is
much easier so I see no need to teach the spinning.
- Greg McKenzie
West Coast, USA
4223
days inactive
4233
days old
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
8 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
Aahz Maruch -
Aaron Redfern -
Andrea Nettleton -
Bill Olson -
Donald Perley -
Erik Hoffman -
Greg McKenzie -
John Sweeney