13 May
2010
13 May
'10
1:02 a.m.
Hi everyone,
I have a question about dance length - not the length of time you run a particular dance,
but the length of an evening of dancing. In Chicago, we recently went from a three-hour
Monday night dance to a two-and-a-half hour Monday night dance. Some dancers like ending
earlier, some really hate it and others don't seem to care.
From a caller's perspective, will you generally
keep calling contras when there are three or four couples left? I know one can always call
squares or triplets, or ask the band to play waltzes, but I'm specifically curious
about contras. Do people think there's a minimum number of dancers necessary for a
contra line? I've danced in four-couple contra lines, and I don't think it's a
whole lot of fun. And I've been the caller at 10:45 p.m. trying to call a square
dance, which I'm not good at yet, and I don't think that's a lot of fun
either.
Thanks for any input you all have....
Meg
13 May
13 May
2:09 a.m.
Meg,
My personal opinion is that 7 couples is a good minimum number for a contra
line. This gives 3 sets of hands 4 dancing all the time. 6 couples will
leave you with 2 hands 4 and 2 couples out every other progression.
Good luck,
Paul Wilde
3:13 a.m.
Meg,
This seems right to me as well. We've had
dancing at jams or caller sessions and there's a lot of waiting (or
inventive scrambling end to end) with six couples or less for a typical contra line.
We've done it with laughter and good cheer, but I wouldn't prefer less than 7
couples for a "formal" dance contra line. I'm glad you mentioned the
alternate formations, triplets, scatter mixers & other proper configurations, are
important for any caller collection.
Laurie P
MI
---
On Wed, 5/12/10, Paul Wilde <zenyente(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
From: Paul Wilde
<zenyente(a)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Callers] Dance length
To:
"Caller's discussion list" <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Date:
Wednesday, May 12, 2010, 10:09 PM
Meg,
My
personal opinion is that 7 couples is a good minimum number for a
contra
line. This gives 3 sets of hands 4 dancing all the time. 6
couples will
leave you with 2 hands 4 and 2 couples out every other
progression.
Good luck,
Paul Wilde
--- On Wed, 5/12/10, Meg Dedolph <mdedolph(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Meg Dedolph <mdedolph(a)yahoo.com>
Subject: [Callers] Dance length
To: callers(a)sharedweight.net
Date: Wednesday, May 12, 2010, 9:02 PM
Hi everyone,
I have a question about dance length - not the length of time you run a particular dance,
but the length of an evening of dancing. In Chicago, we recently went from a three-hour
Monday night dance to a two-and-a-half hour Monday night dance. Some dancers like ending
earlier, some really hate it and others don't seem to care.
From a caller's perspective, will you generally
keep calling contras when there are three or four couples left? I know one can always call
squares or triplets, or ask the band to play waltzes, but I'm specifically curious
about contras. Do people think there's a minimum number of dancers necessary for a
contra line? I've danced in four-couple contra lines, and I don't think it's a
whole lot of fun. And I've been the caller at 10:45 p.m. trying to call a square
dance, which I'm not good at yet, and I don't think that's a lot of fun
either.
Thanks for any input you all have....
Meg
_______________________________________________
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3:55 a.m.
What time do the dances start? Are people leaving because it's too late for
them on a Monday night? Could you start earlier?
At our calling parties, where space is limited, the ideal number of people
is 10 - there is always eighty per cent of the people dancing, and there are
never more than two people not dancing. With eight people, it goes back and
forth between 50% and 100%, so on average, just 75%. With six people, it's
67%. With twelve, it's 83% on average, but every other time, there are four
people not dancing. And so forth. So, ten.
It's been a dream to go through the triplet repertoire and find the good
ones. If you do it, let us know what you find!
M
E
On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 8:02 PM, Meg Dedolph <mdedolph(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi everyone,
I have a question about dance length - not the length of time you run a
particular dance, but the length of an evening of dancing. In Chicago, we
recently went from a three-hour Monday night dance to a two-and-a-half hour
Monday night dance. Some dancers like ending earlier, some really hate it
and others don't seem to care.
--
For the good are always the merry,
Save by an evil chance,
And the merry love the fiddle
And the merry love to dance. ~ William Butler Yeats
From a caller's perspective, will you
generally keep calling contras when
there are three or four couples left? I know
one can always call squares or
triplets, or ask the band to play waltzes, but I'm specifically curious
about contras. Do people think there's a minimum number of dancers necessary
for a contra line? I've danced in four-couple contra lines, and I don't
think it's a whole lot of fun. And I've been the caller at 10:45 p.m. trying
to call a square dance, which I'm not good at yet, and I don't think that's
a lot of fun either.
Thanks for any input you all have....
Meg
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
4:58 a.m.
I usually consider 5 couple a minimum for a regular contra dance, but
triples like Money Musk require more people.
A caller up here, Byron Ricker, has been writing a few dances that he
calls "quad beckets." Quad becket dances are becket dances that can be
danced with 4 or more couples and that never leaves anyone out (unless
there are an odd number of couples). Many, but not all becket dances
work this way. With just 4 couples left, I've sometimes called a quad
becket with some success.
Rich.
5:29 a.m.
That would be great! Hope you can share the ones that work well with us, with his
permission, of course.
At a dance we rarely have that few people left, but for an informal gathering I'm
always looking for ways to keep people on the floor.
laur
--- On Thu, 5/13/10, Richard Hart <rich(a)harts.mv.com> wrote:
From: Richard Hart <rich(a)harts.mv.com>
Subject: Re: [Callers] Dance length
To: "Caller's discussion list" <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Date: Thursday, May 13, 2010, 12:58 AM
I usually consider 5 couple a minimum for a regular contra dance, but triples like Money
Musk require more people.
A caller up here, Byron Ricker, has been writing a few dances that he calls "quad
beckets." Quad becket dances are becket dances that can be danced with 4 or more
couples and that never leaves anyone out (unless there are an odd number of couples).
Many, but not all becket dances work this way. With just 4 couples left, I've
sometimes called a quad becket with some success.
Rich.
15 May
15 May
4:37 a.m.
I saw Byron tonight and he gave me an ok to share his dance here, so
here is Chasing the "L".
*Chasing the “L”* - Byron Ricker “Quad” Becket
A Quad Becket is a dance that can be done with just 4 couples, as no one
is ever out at the ends
*A1:* On the L Diagonal, Right & Left Through;
Ladies Chain Straight Across
*A2:* Men Allemande L 1 ½ x (to partner)
Gypsy with Partner
*B1:* Hey for 4 (Women start with L sh)
*B2:* Partner Balance & Swing
Laur remarked on 5/13/2010 1:29 AM:
That would be great! Hope you can share the ones
that work well with us, with his permission, of course.
At a dance we rarely have that few people left, but for an informal gathering I'm
always looking for ways to keep people on the floor.
laur
--- On Thu, 5/13/10, Richard Hart <rich(a)harts.mv.com> wrote:
From: Richard Hart <rich(a)harts.mv.com>
Subject: Re: [Callers] Dance length
To: "Caller's discussion list" <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Date: Thursday, May 13, 2010, 12:58 AM
I usually consider 5 couple a minimum for a regular contra dance, but triples like Money
Musk require more people.
A caller up here, Byron Ricker, has been writing a few dances that he calls "quad
beckets." Quad becket dances are becket dances that can be danced with 4 or more
couples and that never leaves anyone out (unless there are an odd number of couples).
Many, but not all becket dances work this way. With just 4 couples left, I've
sometimes called a quad becket with some success.
Rich.
6:36 a.m.
A caller up here, Byron Ricker, has been writing a few
dances that
he calls "quad beckets." Quad becket dances are becket dances that
can be danced with 4 or more couples and that never leaves anyone
out (unless there are an odd number of couples).
Surely this is just a double progression Becket dance - as the
original Becket Reel was.
Colin Hume
4:29 p.m.
New subject: Beckets not usually double progression.
Chasing the "L" is not a double progression dance. Also, the original
Becket Reel is not double progression. Each time through the figures
each couple moves just one place to the left (clockwise). There may be
some confusion on this because the posting of the Becket Reel
choreography at
http://www.cambridgefolk.org.uk/contra/dances/herbie_gaudreau/becket_reel.h…
states, incorrectly, that Becket Reel is a double progression dance.
There may exist some double progression Becket dances, but most that I
know and use are single progression.
Rich Hart.
Colin Hume remarked on 5/15/2010 2:36 AM:
A caller up
here, Byron Ricker, has been writing a few dances that
he calls "quad beckets." Quad becket dances are becket dances that
can be danced with 4 or more couples and that never leaves anyone
out (unless there are an odd number of couples).
Surely this is just a double progression Becket dance - as the
original Becket Reel was.
Colin Hume
5:20 p.m.
New subject: Beckets not usually double progression.
On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 9:29 AM, Richard Hart <rich(a)harts.mv.com> wrote:
Chasing the "L" is not a double progression
dance. Also, the original Becket
Reel is not double progression. Each time through the figures each couple
moves just one place to the left (clockwise). There may be some confusion on
this because the posting of the Becket Reel choreography at
http://www.cambridgefolk.org.uk/contra/dances/herbie_gaudreau/becket_reel.h…
states, incorrectly, that Becket Reel is a double progression dance.
There may exist some double progression Becket dances, but most that I know
and use are single progression.
I'm afraid Becket Reel is most definitely double progression -- though
the first time I was told so I had to watch it multiple times to
believe it.
The quick way to check is to see if there's a couple out at the top
every other time through the dance. If there's never a couple out at
the top, the dance has an even number of progressions. If there is a
couple out at the top every other time through, the dance has an odd
number of progressions.
The double progression happens during the diagonal right and left through.
Across from you are the old neighbors N1.
You face neighbors N2 on the left diagonal, pulling by them, and leaving them.
You then face across with new neighbors N3 straight across from you,
and dance with them.
-Chris Page
San Diego
1:31 p.m.
New subject: Quadruplet Dance
Very clever! Each couple progresses clockwise each time through the
dance, so this would be a perfect dance to do when the numbers of
couples has dwindled. Thanks for sharing.
Linda Leslie
On May 15, 2010, at 12:37 AM, Richard Hart wrote:
I saw Byron tonight and he gave me an ok to share his
dance here, so
here is Chasing the "L".
*Chasing the “L”* - Byron Ricker “Quad” Becket
A Quad Becket is a dance that can be done with just 4 couples, as no
one is ever out at the ends
*A1:* On the L Diagonal, Right & Left Through;
Ladies Chain Straight Across
*A2:* Men Allemande L 1 ½ x (to partner)
Gypsy with Partner
*B1:* Hey for 4 (Women start with L sh)
*B2:* Partner Balance & Swing
Laur remarked on 5/13/2010 1:29 AM:
That would be great! Hope you can share the
ones that work well
with us, with his permission, of course.
At a dance we rarely have that few people left, but for an
informal gathering I'm always looking for ways to keep people on
the floor.
laur
--- On Thu, 5/13/10, Richard Hart <rich(a)harts.mv.com> wrote:
From: Richard Hart <rich(a)harts.mv.com>
Subject: Re: [Callers] Dance length
To: "Caller's discussion list" <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Date: Thursday, May 13, 2010, 12:58 AM
I usually consider 5 couple a minimum for a regular contra dance,
but triples like Money Musk require more people.
A caller up here, Byron Ricker, has been writing a few dances that
he calls "quad beckets." Quad becket dances are becket dances that
can be danced with 4 or more couples and that never leaves anyone
out (unless there are an odd number of couples). Many, but not all
becket dances work this way. With just 4 couples left, I've
sometimes called a quad becket with some success.
Rich.
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers 
13 May
13 May
10:07 a.m.
Gary Roodman (from Binghamton, NY) wrote several four-couple contras, one of
which I use often when I have only four couples:
RISE AND RUN
Becket
A1 w/neighbors across, star R 1x; middle four, star L 1x
A2 Balance & swing partner
B1 couples at first corners* pass thru; couples at second corners pass thru;
Promenade one place to the right
B2 ladies chain over and back
*top of men's line, bottom of women's line
--Katy Heine
-----Original Message-----
From: callers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net
[mailto:callers-bounces@sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of Richard Hart
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 12:59 AM
To: Caller's discussion list
Subject: Re: [Callers] Dance length
I usually consider 5 couple a minimum for a regular contra dance, but
triples like Money Musk require more people.
A caller up here, Byron Ricker, has been writing a few dances that he
calls "quad beckets." Quad becket dances are becket dances that can be
danced with 4 or more couples and that never leaves anyone out (unless
there are an odd number of couples). Many, but not all becket dances
work this way. With just 4 couples left, I've sometimes called a quad
becket with some success.
Rich.
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
5:06 p.m.
I like to use the Bucksaw Reel with 4 couple sets. Everyone is active all the time.
Ron Nelson
Chula Vista, CA
From: kheine(a)twcny.rr.com
To: callers(a)sharedweight.net
Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 06:07:37 -0400
Subject: Re: [Callers] Dance length
Gary Roodman (from Binghamton, NY) wrote several four-couple contras, one of
which I use often when I have only four couples:
RISE AND RUN
Becket
A1 w/neighbors across, star R 1x; middle four, star L 1x
A2 Balance & swing partner
B1 couples at first corners* pass thru; couples at second corners pass thru;
Promenade one place to the right
B2 ladies chain over and back
*top of men's line, bottom of women's line
--Katy Heine
-----Original Message-----
From: callers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net
[mailto:callers-bounces@sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of Richard Hart
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 12:59 AM
To: Caller's discussion list
Subject: Re: [Callers] Dance length
I usually consider 5 couple a minimum for a regular contra dance, but
triples like Money Musk require more people.
A caller up here, Byron Ricker, has been writing a few dances that he
calls "quad beckets." Quad becket dances are becket dances that can be
danced with 4 or more couples and that never leaves anyone out (unless
there are an odd number of couples). Many, but not all becket dances
work this way. With just 4 couples left, I've sometimes called a quad
becket with some success.
Rich.
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
_________________________________________________________________
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12:46 p.m.
Richard Hart wrote:
A caller up here, Byron Ricker, has been writing a few dances that
he calls "quad beckets." Quad becket dances are becket dances that
can be danced with 4 or more couples and that never leaves anyone
out (unless there are an odd number of couples). Many, but not all
becket dances work this way. With just 4 couples left, I've
sometimes called a quad becket with some success.
These would be double progression, no? So couple A dances with couple
C, then couple D, but never couple B?
Jeff
12:55 p.m.
Or they could be Beckets where folks on the end go in and out so they
never really stop dancing. Lots of those out there.
J
On 5/13/2010 8:46 AM, Jeff Kaufman wrote:
Richard Hart wrote:
A caller up here, Byron Ricker, has been writing
a few dances that
he calls "quad beckets." Quad becket dances are becket dances that
can be danced with 4 or more couples and that never leaves anyone
out (unless there are an odd number of couples). Many, but not all
becket dances work this way. With just 4 couples left, I've
sometimes called a quad becket with some success.
These would be double progression, no? So couple A dances with couple
C, then couple D, but never couple B?
Jeff
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5:24 p.m.
Richard Hart wrote:
With just 4 couples left, I've
sometimes
called a quad becket with some success.
These would be double progression, no? So couple A dances with couple
C, then couple D, but never couple B?
Jeff 
5:48 p.m.
Actually, no. Most Becketts progress in a clockwise
direction. Everyone has equal
opportunity to dance with each of the other couples.
Double progression dances, becket (either direction) or improper, only
let you dance with half the couples when there's an even number of
couples. For four couple they're nice in that they keep everyone in,
but you don't get to dance with everyone.
For a clockwise double progression becket, same letters are partners. It goes
B a
b A
~~
D c
d C
Progress
D b
d B
~~
C a
c A
Progress
C d
c D
~~
A b
a B
Progress
A c
a C
~~
B d
b D
Progress
B a
b A
~~
D c
d C
And you're back where you started, with A's never dancing with D's
(for a ccw becket, read bottom to top)
--
Luke Donev
http://www.lukedonev.com
Luke.Donev(a)gmail.com
6:03 p.m.
Gee, I guess you would need 6 couples to get to everyone. Thanks, Luke, for broadening my
perspective.
Ron
From: luke.donev(a)gmail.com
Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 12:48:16 -0500
To: callers(a)sharedweight.net
Subject: Re: [Callers] Dance length
_________________________________________________________________
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Actually, no. Most Becketts progress in a
clockwise direction. Everyone has equal
opportunity to dance with each of the other couples.
Double progression dances, becket (either direction) or improper, only
let you dance with half the couples when there's an even number of
couples. For four couple they're nice in that they keep everyone in,
but you don't get to dance with everyone.
For a clockwise double progression becket, same letters are partners. It goes
B a
b A
~~
D c
d C
Progress
D b
d B
~~
C a
c A
Progress
C d
c D
~~
A b
a B
Progress
A c
a C
~~
B d
b D
Progress
B a
b A
~~
D c
d C
And you're back where you started, with A's never dancing with D's
(for a ccw becket, read bottom to top)
--
Luke Donev
http://www.lukedonev.com
Luke.Donev(a)gmail.com
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Callers mailing list
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6:51 p.m.
On 13/May/10 11:03, Ron Nelson wrote:
Gee, I guess you would need 6 couples to get to everyone. Thanks, Luke, for broadening my
perspective.
I'd think you'd need an odd number of pairs. Adding this idea to my
small numbers (of dancers) grab bag.
Cheers, John
J.D. Erskine
Victoria, BC
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7:20 p.m.
Ron Nelson wrote:
Gee, I guess you would need 6 couples to get to everyone. Thanks,
Luke, for broadening my perspective.
Six doesn't help. I believe there's no way to set up a contra dance
with more than 2 couples where no one is ever out and each couple
dances with all other couples.
Jeff
7:56 p.m.
Jeff wrote: I believe there's no way to >set up
a contra dance with more than >2 couples where no one is ever out >and each couple
dances with all >other couples
Sounds like an interesting challenge! 8-)
Mark
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Kaufman <jeff(a)alum.swarthmore.edu>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 15:20:24
To: <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Subject: Re: [Callers] Dance length
_______________________________________________
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8:28 p.m.
On May 12, 2010, at 9:02 PM, Meg Dedolph wrote:
I have a question about dance length - not the length
of time you run a particular dance, but the length of an evening of dancing. In Chicago,
we recently went from a three-hour Monday night dance to a two-and-a-half hour Monday
night dance. Some dancers like ending earlier, some really hate it and others don't
seem to care.
As best as I could tell, I saw exactly zero answers to your question :-) and lots of
discussion about dances with small attendance.
Most (perhaps all) of the dances in greater Boston are 3 hours. Most are 8-11 on weekends
and 7:30 to 10:30 on weeknights.
While slightly off subject, the MWSD club I dance with had been 3 hours sine the
1970's and changed to 2 1/2 hours about 5 years ago. When the change happened, it was
a big deal. Now, it just seems normal. The change was motivated by our caller who had to
get home and get to work early so ending at 10:30 on a weeknight helped him.
Dances need critical mass. If people are leaving at the middle break, and you are
stretching to keep things going for that last 1/2 hour, perhaps you need a shorter dance.
Another issue to consider -- the cost. Dancers are paying $7 to $10 to get into a dance
these days. Will they be upset if the dance is shortened?
--
Clark Baker, Belmont, MA
cmbaker(a)tiac.net
8:40 p.m.
Our Monday night dance in Asheville goes from 8-10:30, but we keep the break
very short....5 or 6 minutes. The Thurs. dance runs 8-11 with a 15 min.
break.
When I have to be up early the next day, I really appreciate calling a dance
that ends at 10:30 !
~Barbara
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clark Baker" <cmbaker(a)tiac.net>
To: "Caller's discussion list" <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Callers] Dance length
On May 12, 2010, at 9:02 PM, Meg Dedolph wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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01:26:00
I have a question about dance length - not the
length of time you run a
particular dance, but the length of an evening of dancing. In Chicago, we
recently went from a three-hour Monday night dance to a two-and-a-half
hour Monday night dance. Some dancers like ending earlier, some really
hate it and others don't seem to care.
As best as I could tell, I saw exactly zero answers to your question :-)
and lots of discussion about dances with small attendance.
Most (perhaps all) of the dances in greater Boston are 3 hours. Most are
8-11 on weekends and 7:30 to 10:30 on weeknights.
While slightly off subject, the MWSD club I dance with had been 3 hours
sine the 1970's and changed to 2 1/2 hours about 5 years ago. When the
change happened, it was a big deal. Now, it just seems normal. The
change was motivated by our caller who had to get home and get to work
early so ending at 10:30 on a weeknight helped him.
Dances need critical mass. If people are leaving at the middle break, and
you are stretching to keep things going for that last 1/2 hour, perhaps
you need a shorter dance.
Another issue to consider -- the cost. Dancers are paying $7 to $10 to
get into a dance these days. Will they be upset if the dance is
shortened?
--
Clark Baker, Belmont, MA
cmbaker(a)tiac.net
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11:21 p.m.
On 12/May/10 18:02, Meg Dedolph wrote:
Hi Meg,
If I wasn't organising it, I might ask the organiser before hand how
long it is likely to go. When I'm asking when the break is to be, etc.
I'm going to add a note for myself, if asked why, obviously or
otherwise, with respect to length of evening expectations of either the
organiser or dancers.
No, I don't think I'd call contra formations with less than four couples
anyway. There are good triplets or four couple set dances. I've danced
them, now to have them in my choices for calling.
As far squares at the end of an evening, it would depend on it's level
of complexity and involvement. I'm just working toward them as well. On
the one hand one may have more experienced or committed dancers at that
point, or simply tired folks of any ability.
A visiting square, may give a little physical and breathing space for
tired folks. A more involved one (more folks moving) might work for the
movement focused.
From SCD, something like Round Reel of Eight is busy enough _and_
simple enough. Hmm, might modify that for use, use a dosido vs setting.
Nope, not short enough. Same hand (right) balance will do though.
http://www.rscdsleeds.org.uk/dancecrib.asp?ID=2083
(treat Allemande hold as Promenade hold.)
So, having some triplets (xlets or nLets?), some easy squares, round(?),
community/family or ceilidh dances handy is always good.
At the last Raincoast Ruckus (Vancouver, BC), Kathy Anderson hosted a
fun workshop on dances for small or odd numbers of folks. Was really good.
Cheers, John
J.D. Erskine
Victoria, BC
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Hi everyone,
I have a question about dance length - not the length of time you run a particular dance,
but the length of an evening of dancing. In Chicago, we recently went from a three-hour
Monday night dance to a two-and-a-half hour Monday night dance. Some dancers like ending
earlier, some really hate it and others don't seem to care.
Sure, change is interesting. Funny and fought even if inevitable.
From a
caller's perspective, will you generally keep calling contras when there are three or
four couples left? I know one can always call squares or triplets, or ask the band to play
waltzes, but I'm specifically curious about contras. Do people think there's a
minimum number of dancers necessary for a contra line? I've danced in four-couple
contra lines, and I don't think it's a whole lot of fun. And I've been the
caller at 10:45 p.m. trying to call a square dance, which I'm not good at yet, and I
don't think that's a lot of fun either.
Thanks for any input you all
have....
Meg
5652
days inactive
5654
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contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
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Amy Cann -
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Meg Dedolph -
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Ron Nelson