17 Aug
2021
17 Aug
'21
11:17 a.m.
May have been talked about already so forgive me if it has. I have been
contracted to call a wedding in Oct. Currently covid numbers are rising in
my area and the bride, groom and I have talked about vaccines (yes),
alcohol (no) and what if.
Normally I do not require a deposit but I do expect payment upon arrival at
venue. The question is: what to request as cancellation payment.
What do others put in your contracts regarding this?
Thanks in advance.
Mary Collins
17 Aug
17 Aug
2:41 p.m.
Mary,
I have had three wedding cancellations during Covid. I normally require a
non-refundable deposit, but since Covid is beyond their control, I returned
the full deposits. Two of the events were rescheduled, and then canceled
again.
Peace,
Rich Sbardella
On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 7:18 AM Mary Collins via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
May have been talked about already so forgive me if it
has. I have been
contracted to call a wedding in Oct. Currently covid numbers are rising in
my area and the bride, groom and I have talked about vaccines (yes),
alcohol (no) and what if.
Normally I do not require a deposit but I do expect payment upon arrival
at venue. The question is: what to request as cancellation payment.
What do others put in your contracts regarding this?
Thanks in advance.
Mary Collins
_______________________________________________
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2:48 p.m.
Assuming that the cancellation would be to protect them and their guests
(and you), I would make it as easy and painless as possible for them to
cancel.
Bree Kalb
Carrboro, NC
On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 7:17 AM Mary Collins via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
May have been talked about already so forgive me if it
has. I have been
contracted to call a wedding in Oct. Currently covid numbers are rising in
my area and the bride, groom and I have talked about vaccines (yes),
alcohol (no) and what if.
Normally I do not require a deposit but I do expect payment upon arrival
at venue. The question is: what to request as cancellation payment.
What do others put in your contracts regarding this?
Thanks in advance.
Mary Collins
_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
19 Aug
19 Aug
7:55 p.m.
Hi Mary:I don't think I'm in a minority when I say I don't use a contract for
private gigs. By the time I've worked out the details, there's an email trail a
mile long and if I had to...I could use that to go to small claims court if I don't
get paid. In 30 years of calling I've been fortunate to not have had any issues.
As far as Covid is concerned...if I were taking any gigs right now, then I would make it
very easy for the organizer to bow out at the last minute if: local Covid numbers go up,
someone gets sick, or they decide it's too risky to have a dance.
One reason for a cancellation clause in a contract is to protect you from loss of income
in the event you didn't take another gig and the first gig cancelled. I think the
chances of any caller right now being asked for 2 gigs on the same day is pretty slim...so
in this instance you're protecting yourself from loss of income during a pandemic
while the Delta variant is infecting the vaxxed and unvaxxed, Covid numbers are still
rising all over the country and in person events are risky.
But none of that relates to your question. Your question was, "What to ask for a
cancellation payment". That is entirely up to you, questions I would ask are
"Are you working?", "Do you have enough money in savings if you're not
working?", "Will you rely on this gig money to feed yourself or your
family?", "How much preparation work will you do prior to this event ie, being
reimbursed for your time when you prep for their event-- learning special dances,
practice, working with musicians or preparing music selections, etc." So if it takes
you X hrs to prep for the event, take the full event fee and divide by the time (gig time
+ your prep fee + travel) to get your hourly pay then multiply by X hrs of your prep
time. That might be a reasonable cancellation amount.
Personally I would be grateful if the gig were cancelled because I wouldn't want to be
liable for telling everyone to "Go into the middle with a whoop and a holler",
and then find out someone was positive.
Sorry if this is a little snarky...I just now received notification that someone, at an
event that I declined to go to, tested positive today. There were several people I was
close to at that event...so now we wait. You just never know...
Stay safe out there everyone.
DonnaEmail: dhuntdancer(a)aol.com
Cell: 215-565-6050
-----Original Message-----
From: Mary Collins via Contra Callers <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Sent: Tue, Aug 17, 2021 7:17 am
Subject: [Callers] Covid cancellations
May have been talked about already so forgive me if it has. I have been contracted to call
a wedding in Oct. Currently covid numbers are rising in my area and the bride, groom and I
have talked about vaccines (yes), alcohol (no) and what if.
Normally I do not require a deposit but I do expect payment upon arrival at venue. The
question is: what to request as cancellation payment.
What do others put in your contracts regarding this?
Thanks in advance.Mary Collins_______________________________________________
Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
9:03 p.m.
Hi, to tail off what Donna said regarding your time investment - that's
what I think is fair in such a situation.
I'm sure many of us do events where you're supporting dance community
friends for a special life event in a venue you know well. These gigs are
where you're lucky to break even after expenses, but it's much the same
effort as for a regular series gig. For these, "no contract" likely makes
sense.
Then there's the random person's "I want to have a [square | contra] dance
for my wedding" gig where you need to spend much more time upfront and be
clear about expectations both ways - IMO that's where a contract (or
"Agreement" = both sides' responsibilities) helps. There's likely quite
a
bit of discussion with clients regarding their vision, what the programming
would actually look like, sound requirements (with considerations and time
spent outside the dancing portion, including ceremony venue speech & music,
reception toast, etc.), schedule queries plus booking of musicians, what
facility arrangements need to be covered (e.g.: power outlet(s) and where?
performer meals?) and so forth. Putting all that in one compact agreed
document can foster clarity for all.
A recent outdoor wedding gig during this period involved 3 event dates
(re-)planned over 18 months, requiring coordination of all involved parties
for each date. As it turned out, the final date fell squarely within our
governor's determined "safe" and "open" window for our state. We
had a plan
for distanced music and outdoor "podded" dancing. The client still decided
to cancel the gig (but NOT their wedding). All agreed it was for the best
yet hours of effort were spent. The talent shouldn't be the only party
shouldering the risk/cost in such a situation.
-Don
On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 7:17 AM Mary Collins via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
May have been talked about already so forgive me if it
has. I have been
contracted to call a wedding in Oct. Currently covid numbers are rising in
my area and the bride, groom and I have talked about vaccines (yes),
alcohol (no) and what if.
Normally I do not require a deposit but I do expect payment upon arrival
at venue. The question is: what to request as cancellation payment.
What do others put in your contracts regarding this?
Thanks in advance.
Mary Collins
_______________________________________________
Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
9:30 p.m.
I generally require a 50% non-refundable deposit for all weddings and
outdoor events.
I do allow the forfeited deposit to be applied toward a mutually acceptable
make-up date.
During the pandemic, I have returned many deposits without questions.
Rich Sbardella
Stafford, CT
On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 5:04 PM Don Veino via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Hi, to tail off what Donna said regarding your time
investment - that's
what I think is fair in such a situation.
I'm sure many of us do events where you're supporting dance community
friends for a special life event in a venue you know well. These gigs are
where you're lucky to break even after expenses, but it's much the same
effort as for a regular series gig. For these, "no contract" likely makes
sense.
Then there's the random person's "I want to have a [square | contra] dance
for my wedding" gig where you need to spend much more time upfront and be
clear about expectations both ways - IMO that's where a contract (or
"Agreement" = both sides' responsibilities) helps. There's likely quite
a
bit of discussion with clients regarding their vision, what the programming
would actually look like, sound requirements (with considerations and time
spent outside the dancing portion, including ceremony venue speech & music,
reception toast, etc.), schedule queries plus booking of musicians, what
facility arrangements need to be covered (e.g.: power outlet(s) and where?
performer meals?) and so forth. Putting all that in one compact agreed
document can foster clarity for all.
A recent outdoor wedding gig during this period involved 3 event dates
(re-)planned over 18 months, requiring coordination of all involved parties
for each date. As it turned out, the final date fell squarely within our
governor's determined "safe" and "open" window for our state. We
had a plan
for distanced music and outdoor "podded" dancing. The client still decided
to cancel the gig (but NOT their wedding). All agreed it was for the best
yet hours of effort were spent. The talent shouldn't be the only party
shouldering the risk/cost in such a situation.
-Don
On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 7:17 AM Mary Collins via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
May have been talked about already so forgive me
if it has. I have been
contracted to call a wedding in Oct. Currently covid numbers are rising in
my area and the bride, groom and I have talked about vaccines (yes),
alcohol (no) and what if.
Normally I do not require a deposit but I do expect payment upon arrival
at venue. The question is: what to request as cancellation payment.
What do others put in your contracts regarding this?
Thanks in advance.
Mary Collins
_______________________________________________
Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to
contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
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To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
21 Aug
21 Aug
2:04 a.m.
On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 5:30 PM Rich Sbardella <richsbardella(a)gmail.com wrote:
Yep, common decision. Though this might sound argumentative, it's not meant
as such... just genuinely curious. In what situation would you *not* refund
a "non-refundable" deposit?
Rich Sbardella
> Stafford, CT
> On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 5:04 PM Don Veino
via Contra Callers <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I generally require a 50% non-refundable deposit for
all weddings and
outdoor events.
I do allow the forfeited deposit to be applied toward a mutually
acceptable make-up date.
For the mentioned gig the deposit was less than 50%. The same policy was
applied - so long as they wished to reschedule, the deposit amount rolled
forward. After the third date was agreed they later chose to go ahead with
the rest of the event, just cancel the dancing. They were cheerfully
refunded the vast majority of the deposit and, should they choose to book
for the suggested first anniversary barn dance, the small amount retained
might be applied.
During the pandemic, I have returned many deposits without questions.
1:30 p.m.
Don,
I would not return a non-refundable deposit for a weather event. That
deposit could be applied for a mutually agreeable date.
I made exceptions to my policy during the pandemic.
Rich
On Fri, Aug 20, 2021 at 10:04 PM Don Veino via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 5:30 PM Rich Sbardella
<richsbardella(a)gmail.com wrote:
Yep, common decision. Though this might sound argumentative, it's not
meant as such... just genuinely curious. In what situation would you *not*
refund a "non-refundable" deposit?
Rich Sbardella
> Stafford, CT
> On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 5:04 PM Don
Veino via Contra Callers <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
_______________________________________________
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I generally require a 50% non-refundable deposit
for all weddings and
outdoor events.
I do allow the forfeited deposit to be applied toward a mutually
acceptable make-up date.
For the mentioned gig the deposit was less than 50%. The same policy was
applied - so long as they wished to reschedule, the deposit amount rolled
forward. After the third date was agreed they later chose to go ahead with
the rest of the event, just cancel the dancing. They were cheerfully
refunded the vast majority of the deposit and, should they choose to book
for the suggested first anniversary barn dance, the small amount retained
might be applied.
During the pandemic, I have returned many deposits without questions.
5:44 p.m.
Leaving Covid aside, I would retain the deposit if the client canceled a few days in
advance for a non-emergency, e.g. they didn’t sell enough tickets. Not my problem.
During the pandemic, like a lot of other callers, I’ve refunded all outstanding
deposits.
Looking ahead, I’ve backed out of one indoor private party due to the spread of the Delta
variant. I have a couple of outdoor gigs coming up, which I’m less nervous about.
Tony Parkes
Billerica, Mass.
www.hands4.com<http://www.hands4.com/>
New book! Square Dance Calling: An Old Art for a New Century
(aiming for Fall 2021)
From: Rich Sbardella via Contra Callers <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2021 9:31 AM
To: Don Veino <sharedweight_net(a)veino.com>
Cc: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Subject: [Callers] Re: Covid cancellations
Don,
I would not return a non-refundable deposit for a weather event. That deposit could be
applied for a mutually agreeable date.
I made exceptions to my policy during the pandemic.
Rich
On Fri, Aug 20, 2021 at 10:04 PM Don Veino via Contra Callers
<contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
wrote:
On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 5:30 PM Rich Sbardella
<richsbardella@gmail.com<mailto:richsbardella@gmail.com>> wrote:
I generally require a 50% non-refundable deposit for all weddings and outdoor events.
I do allow the forfeited deposit to be applied toward a mutually acceptable make-up
date.
For the mentioned gig the deposit was less than 50%. The same policy was applied - so long
as they wished to reschedule, the deposit amount rolled forward. After the third date was
agreed they later chose to go ahead with the rest of the event, just cancel the dancing.
They were cheerfully refunded the vast majority of the deposit and, should they choose to
book for the suggested first anniversary barn dance, the small amount retained might be
applied.
During the pandemic, I have returned many deposits without questions.
Yep, common decision. Though this might sound argumentative, it's not meant as such...
just genuinely curious. In what situation would you *not* refund a
"non-refundable" deposit?
23 Jun
23 Jun
6:32 a.m.
New subject: Timing on 1/2 hey as couples?
Hello knowledgeable and experienced folks
Do you have any sense of how long that ½ hey for four in couples in promenade position
should take? I know in "Cranky Ingenuity" the couple DSD is to take 8 counts but
it is always tight and really should take 10 and steals from the individual DSD.
Any ideas? Comments on this choreography?
Title: 4am
Formation: double contra; aka 4-face-4; aka Mescolanza
A1: Lines forward and back (8); neighbor (directly in front of you) DSD (8)
A2: Neighbor balance and swing; end swing in promenade position facing partner (16)
B1: As couples, ½ hey for four, start passing right shoulder (16). When you are at the end
of the line of the hey, turn individually (a la Gay Gordons) rather than as a couple [if
extra time, partner Right shoulder round]
B2: Partner balance and swing (16)
Notes: This dance is a riff on a 'lost' Ron Buchanan square called 2am; named
after when he woke up in the middle of the night to write the square. However, my version
of the dance was composed at 10pm immediately prior to going to sleep.
Seth Tepfer, MBA, CSM, PMP
Pronouns: he, him, his
<https://app.oxford.emory.edu/WebApps/Directories/index.cfm?fuseaction=v.searchresults&searchname=tepfer>
7:12 a.m.
New subject: Timing on 1/2 hey as couples?
I think the coordination problems of a promenade hey will make it take more longer than
do-si-do as couples. The exterior of the hey is extra-wide, if you pass in the hey you
have to pass wide of two people - it's going to take longer than solo heys. (I
can't tell you how much longer.). I'm mentally drawing lines for individual
dancers in the pairs and I think each dancer has to cover significantly more ground than
in a solo hey. I think you could do a different kind of tandem hey - couples as a unit,
one in front with hands behind, one behind holding those hands in something closer to solo
hey timing.;
But you've got 16 beats there, which is usually good enough for a whole hey for four,
so it only has to fit in double the time a solo half hey takes. It might work!
The unhurried neighbor b&s seems like a good set up for the hey as couples; the
"face partner" should orient everybody easily with the only landmark they're
bringing with them, and the transition could be sweet.
I'm not sure you recomend getting into promenade position out of the swing but I'm
having some trouble seeing how a right shoulder pass in the hey is inevitable and I think
there might be a moment of hesitation there in the first few rounds.
-- Alan
________________________________________
From: Tepfer, Seth via Contra Callers <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2022 11:32 PM
To: Caller's discussion list
Subject: [Callers] Timing on 1/2 hey as couples?
Hello knowledgeable and experienced folks
Do you have any sense of how long that ½ hey for four in couples in promenade position
should take? I know in "Cranky Ingenuity" the couple DSD is to take 8 counts but
it is always tight and really should take 10 and steals from the individual DSD.
Any ideas? Comments on this choreography?
Title: 4am
Formation: double contra; aka 4-face-4; aka Mescolanza
A1: Lines forward and back (8); neighbor (directly in front of you) DSD (8)
A2: Neighbor balance and swing; end swing in promenade position facing partner (16)
B1: As couples, ½ hey for four, start passing right shoulder (16). When you are at the end
of the line of the hey, turn individually (a la Gay Gordons) rather than as a couple [if
extra time, partner Right shoulder round]
B2: Partner balance and swing (16)
Notes: This dance is a riff on a 'lost' Ron Buchanan square called 2am; named
after when he woke up in the middle of the night to write the square. However, my version
of the dance was composed at 10pm immediately prior to going to sleep.
Seth Tepfer, MBA, CSM, PMP
Pronouns: he, him, his
<https://app.oxford.emory.edu/WebApps/Directories/index.cfm?fuseaction=v.searchresults&searchname=tepfer>
26 Jun
26 Jun
10:54 p.m.
New subject: Timing on 1/2 hey as couples?
Seth, it took a few times walking/drawing this dance through before I made
it work correctly. The key is making sure that everyone remembers that you
make a 180-degree turn when you "pass through" the end. And when you're an
inside couple headed out, itt becomes clumsy.. First move- angle left
(4)... second: back up AND inward, AND turn 180, AND THEN start/finish
angling left (4).. third: angle right to pass... fourth: angle left to face
P (4).
So, to your timing question, the people dancing on the ends need 6-7 counts
to get things done without hurrying... That can be fixed in B2 if you just
go directly to a P swing with no balance.. Don't see any time for a P-round
at the end... And the 2nd half of the half-hey might feel a little strange
because you're out of sync with the tune's emphasis. Unless you just make
the end move combination 8 counts.
It's a cool dance! Hope I get to call and/or dance it sometime.
Keith Tuxhorn
Springfield IL
On Thu, Jun 23, 2022 at 2:13 AM Winston, Alan P. via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I think the coordination problems of a promenade hey
will make it take
more longer than do-si-do as couples. The exterior of the hey is
extra-wide, if you pass in the hey you have to pass wide of two people -
it's going to take longer than solo heys. (I can't tell you how much
longer.). I'm mentally drawing lines for individual dancers in the pairs
and I think each dancer has to cover significantly more ground than in a
solo hey. I think you could do a different kind of tandem hey - couples as
a unit, one in front with hands behind, one behind holding those hands in
something closer to solo hey timing.;
But you've got 16 beats there, which is usually good enough for a whole
hey for four, so it only has to fit in double the time a solo half hey
takes. It might work!
The unhurried neighbor b&s seems like a good set up for the hey as
couples; the "face partner" should orient everybody easily with the only
landmark they're bringing with them, and the transition could be sweet.
I'm not sure you recomend getting into promenade position out of the swing
but I'm having some trouble seeing how a right shoulder pass in the hey is
inevitable and I think there might be a moment of hesitation there in the
first few rounds.
-- Alan
________________________________________
From: Tepfer, Seth via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2022 11:32 PM
To: Caller's discussion list
Subject: [Callers] Timing on 1/2 hey as couples?
Hello knowledgeable and experienced folks
Do you have any sense of how long that ½ hey for four in couples in
promenade position should take? I know in "Cranky Ingenuity" the couple DSD
is to take 8 counts but it is always tight and really should take 10 and
steals from the individual DSD.
Any ideas? Comments on this choreography?
Title: 4am
Formation: double contra; aka 4-face-4; aka Mescolanza
A1: Lines forward and back (8); neighbor (directly in front of you) DSD (8)
A2: Neighbor balance and swing; end swing in promenade position facing
partner (16)
B1: As couples, ½ hey for four, start passing right shoulder (16). When
you are at the end of the line of the hey, turn individually (a la Gay
Gordons) rather than as a couple [if extra time, partner Right shoulder
round]
B2: Partner balance and swing (16)
Notes: This dance is a riff on a 'lost' Ron Buchanan square called 2am;
named after when he woke up in the middle of the night to write the square.
However, my version of the dance was composed at 10pm immediately prior to
going to sleep.
Seth Tepfer, MBA, CSM, PMP
Pronouns: he, him, his
<
https://app.oxford.emory.edu/WebApps/Directories/index.cfm?fuseaction=v.sea…
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contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
11 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
Bree Kalb -
Don Veino -
Donna Hunt -
Keith Tuxhorn -
Mary Collins -
Rich Sbardella -
Tepfer, Seth -
Tony Parkes -
Winston, Alan P.